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Community Round-Up: August 29th, 2012


CourtneyWoods

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Hey everyone!

 

Please use this thread to discuss the Community Round-Up as well as nominate any threads, events, or discussions about SWTOR for next week's blog.

 

You can also PM me any nominations! :csw_jabbapet:

 

Also, as a friendly reminder, the purpose of this blog is not to highlight the most talked about issues on the forums, but fun, interesting, and productive threads outside of General Discussion.

 

Thanks for staying on topic!

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A Thousand Papercuts: In this thread, community members give some great suggestions to improve the game. We have been closely monitoring this thread and compiling their feedback. Some of your suggestions included:

 

Xenara: “Would love to see a functional Day/Night cycle.”

Darth Milonus: “1. I would like to be able to put my Jedi's hood down

Let's be honest here: this thread is the biggest pile of messy crap that has been posted on the suggestion forum.

 

  • There's no focus at all on specific topics
  • The way it's disorganized make it so it's not even usable for a brainstorm
  • The OP is the great example of what not to do: say the same thing multiple times in lengthily paragraph without adding anything to your first statement.
  • I did not see anything that hasn't been debated during or even before the beta in much more detailed and focused threads
  • There's no way you can identify the most requested features with this
  • Don't even think of getting the pro and cons in structured discussions.

 

The only goal I can see this topic achieve is:

  1. Redirect brainless people there to keep the "nonconstructive" feedback in this /dev/null feature and let them rot
  2. Get the bored devs entertained browsing randomly this mess.

 

That's a shame because there are lots of great topics in the suggestion forums that never got any dev attention nor feedback.

 

Here's a few examples:

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Let's be honest here: this thread is the biggest pile of messy crap that has been posted on the suggestion forum.

 

  • There's no focus at all on specific topics
  • The way it's disorganized make it so it's not even usable for a brainstorm
  • The OP is the great example of what not to do: say the same thing multiple times in lengthily paragraph without adding anything to your first statement.
  • I did not see anything that hasn't been debated during or even before the beta in much more detailed and focused threads
  • There's no way you can identify the most requested features with this
  • Don't even think of getting the pro and cons in structured discussions.

 

The only goal I can see this topic achieve is:

  1. Redirect brainless people there to keep the "nonconstructive" feedback in this /dev/null feature and let them rot
  2. Get the bored devs entertained browsing randomly this mess.

 

That's a shame because there are lots of great topics in the suggestion forums that never got any dev attention nor feedback.

 

Here's a few examples:

 

Ah, but it's perfect, because they can mine it for harmless ideas while avoiding the sort of threads you posted (which I see no gold replies to, lol)

 

I stopped taking these Community Round Up threads seriously when they never engaged any of the really hard questions people have to which they claim to have no answers.

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Let's be honest here: this thread is the biggest pile of messy crap that has been posted on the suggestion forum.

 

  • There's no focus at all on specific topics
  • The way it's disorganized make it so it's not even usable for a brainstorm
  • The OP is the great example of what not to do: say the same thing multiple times in lengthily paragraph without adding anything to your first statement.
  • I did not see anything that hasn't been debated during or even before the beta in much more detailed and focused threads
  • There's no way you can identify the most requested features with this
  • Don't even think of getting the pro and cons in structured discussions.

 

The only goal I can see this topic achieve is:

  1. Redirect brainless people there to keep the "nonconstructive" feedback in this /dev/null feature and let them rot
  2. Get the bored devs entertained browsing randomly this mess.

 

That's a shame because there are lots of great topics in the suggestion forums that never got any dev attention nor feedback.

 

Here's a few examples:

 

Hello!

 

We appreciate all kinds of constructive feedback, and we're always reading the forums to collect it. We chose to highlight this thread this week because it was a great source of feedback on quality of life issues the community is interested in. We can't always comment on individual ideas or suggestions, especially if we don't have any concrete details to share, but the thread we highlighted here and the ones you've shared with us are all great feedback threads! Just because we chose to feature this thread this week doesn't mean we're ignoring others; we just liked to see everyone pitching in with constructive posts. For us, the thread was useful, but so are many of the feedback threads we see, whether they are detailed posts about one suggestion or compilations of minor issues.

 

Thank you!

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Hello!

 

We appreciate all kinds of constructive feedback, and we're always reading the forums to collect it. We chose to highlight this thread this week because it was a great source of feedback on quality of life issues the community is interested in. We can't always comment on individual ideas or suggestions, especially if we don't have any concrete details to share, but the thread we highlighted here and the ones you've shared with us are all great feedback threads! Just because we chose to feature this thread this week doesn't mean we're ignoring others; we just liked to see everyone pitching in with constructive posts. For us, the thread was useful, but so are many of the feedback threads we see, whether they are detailed posts about one suggestion or compilations of minor issues.

 

Thank you!

First I have to admit I did not expect any feedback. So allow me to /tip_hat for that honest answer.

 

Then I don't think in its actual state the game can spare that much resources on quality of life features that much, at least the ones you are unaware of and so would need the above topic to highlight them.

 

There are so many game breaking issues that need some help that it's puzzling, for the least, to see you guys putting an emphasis on such topic, before the others.

 

Now to be fair, you guys almost never comment any kind of suggestions and even less the detailed ones like I pointed you at.

Now would your executive producer like it so, you'd (the devs, not the mods) find the time to do so. So please (no pun intented) spare us the "We can't always comment on individual ideas or suggestions".

 

As closure and because you seems to have slightly improved the communication I'd invite you to:

  1. Stop screening the devs and start having them step into the suggestion forums.
  2. Actually answer the most viewed/answered questions. Why not in a meaningful QA and discuss with the players the answers in the following topic.

 

Before leaving:

I'm not shooting the messenger here. Most of us are pretty much aware you guys can only say what you are allowed to.

Edited by Deewe
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Then I don't think in its actual state the game can spare that much resources on quality of life features that much, at least the ones you are unaware of and so would need the above topic to highlight them.

 

There are so many game breaking issues that need some help that it's puzzling, for the least, to see you guys putting an emphasis on such topic, before the others.

 

The things they have highlighted (Day/night cycle, hood down option) are wanted by more people than all of the links that you provided put together.

 

There aren't game breaking issues at all, you just have a personal want of different issues to be highlighted.

 

No idea how you can think it's puzzling.

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You are very welcome! Thank you for taking the time to make such an awesome guide! I have been using it myself :t_smile: I love pets!

 

And umm...When might these 'pets' become more than just vanity?

 

When might they become as USEFUL as actual Companions? (the 'system' is already in place, obviously)

 

When might there be ohhh i dunno some sort of long-term Endgame galaxy-encompassing pursuit, whereby players could scour the planets looking for (and sampling) rare spawns of certain Creatures whose combined DNA might 'unlock' even more rare & massive types of Companions w/ special attacks, skins, resources, etc. etc.

 

Oh what's that? You don't want to "copy" off SWG's Creature-Handler & Beastmaster systems? Really?! Yet you can copy off WoW's everything else?! lol okay then

 

You guys & gals at BioWare haven't a clue as to what keeps paying customers subscribed for YEARS, do you? Hint: It's not another Operation that can be completed & memorized in a week.

 

Get some serious sandbox-type Endgame ASAP BioWare...Or your game will end, seriously.

 

We've only been telling you this since Beta.

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You are very welcome! Thank you for taking the time to make such an awesome guide! I have been using it myself :t_smile: I love pets!

 

You're welcome! :D Thank you again <3 I'm glad it could be helpful!

 

Nee-Elder - Not everyone minds that they don't do anything besides passively follow you around :p I like my vanity pets~ Don't need them to do anything else honestly. They make me happy just how they are :3

 

Some pets you do get by exploring the world--even if it doesn't involve being a scientist to do so. Regardless, I could go play Monster Hunter or Pokemon if I want to do DNA-craziness and battling. Sometimes having a cute little friend to follow you around is all you need~

 

As for copying things from WoW, most things copied are things WoW copied as well. It is a universal cycle but the game that is the biggest always gets the blame~ We have companions and we have Vanity Pets. And eventually, HK-51 will be out and we can get another companion.

 

Finally, you apparently do not know all the paying customers. As just mentioned, I don't care whether they make vanity pets more than just vanity or not. Also, I've heard dozens of people mention how excited they were for a new operation and couldn't wait for it to come out.

 

So, maybe that's not what you as a paying customer would like, but you are not the only paying customer and BioWare is doing their best to cater to people as much as possible. If you want something at least try being nice about it over just thinking you know everything about every single user who pays for this game.

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The things they have highlighted (Day/night cycle, hood down option) are wanted by more people than all of the links that you provided put together.

 

There aren't game breaking issues at all, you just have a personal want of different issues to be highlighted.

 

No idea how you can think it's puzzling.

First allow me to write down that I never said the topics I pointed at are the most wanted ones, nor the most game breaking either. If you read carefully you'd notice they were mentioned for other reasons.

 

Then both the topics you named have been quite debated and answered by the devs. As such none of them are new regarding the OP pointed at by BioWare. Also while I'd like both features to be implemented, may I mention none of them are game breaking either.

 

In the end my point persists: they do have too many real game breaking issues to be worked upon (and discussed) before, eventually, putting an emphasis on a messy thread.

Now would the game be in a much better shape, it would be great to have the executive producer (because he's the one calling the shots here) asking for feedback on quality of life features . And I'd be the first to step in and not only thanks them but provide constructive feedback,

 

For now it's just saying either they are totally clueless of the needs of the game or don't care and well redirect players towards this garbage collector.

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First allow me to write down that I never said the topics I pointed at are the most wanted ones, nor the most game breaking either. If you read carefully you'd notice they were mentioned for other reasons.

 

Then both the topics you named have been quite debated and answered by the devs. As such none of them are new regarding the OP pointed at by BioWare. Also while I'd like both features to be implemented, may I mention none of them are game breaking either.

 

In the end my point persists: they do have too many real game breaking issues to be worked upon (and discussed) before, eventually, putting an emphasis on a messy thread.

Now would the game be in a much better shape, it would be great to have the executive producer (because he's the one calling the shots here) asking for feedback on quality of life features . And I'd be the first to step in and not only thanks them but provide constructive feedback,

 

For now it's just saying either they are totally clueless of the needs of the game or don't care and well redirect players towards this garbage collector.

 

You pointed towards a thread about Pazaak as part of a quote talking about game breaking issues. You're clearly off your rocker.

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You're welcome! :D Thank you again <3 I'm glad it could be helpful!

 

Nee-Elder - Not everyone minds that they don't do anything besides passively follow you around :p I like my vanity pets~ Don't need them to do anything else honestly. They make me happy just how they are :3

 

Some pets you do get by exploring the world--even if it doesn't involve being a scientist to do so. Regardless, I could go play Monster Hunter or Pokemon if I want to do DNA-craziness and battling. Sometimes having a cute little friend to follow you around is all you need~

 

As for copying things from WoW, most things copied are things WoW copied as well. It is a universal cycle but the game that is the biggest always gets the blame~ We have companions and we have Vanity Pets. And eventually, HK-51 will be out and we can get another companion.

 

Finally, you apparently do not know all the paying customers. As just mentioned, I don't care whether they make vanity pets more than just vanity or not. Also, I've heard dozens of people mention how excited they were for a new operation and couldn't wait for it to come out.

 

So, maybe that's not what you as a paying customer would like, but you are not the only paying customer and BioWare is doing their best to cater to people as much as possible. If you want something at least try being nice about it over just thinking you know everything about every single user who pays for this game.

 

I love how nowadays people assume a person's "tone" (aka now i'm "being mean" apparently lol) through typed words over the Internet.

 

Anyways, i read your post and hear you...However:

 

Answer me this: Why then, if my point-of-view (as a still paying customer) is so off-base, did TOR lose so many players in not even a year of release? Why then is this so called 'WoW killer' already going Free-to-Play? Why then did hundreds of Beta-testers like me point out all the many inherent flaws in TOR over a year ago, specifically Endgame, and now here we are (as predicted) with the very same issues still unresolved?

 

Why then are people like You so resistant to just SOME small sense of 'sandbox' elements, which would be completely optional btw (just like, say, Operations are) , but would provide the more sophisticated player (of which there are many more than you and EA realize) something within this "great star War" to strive toward?

 

Why then, if TOR is so perfect as it is, are subscription numbers continually decreasing each month?

 

BioWare listened to all of 'you' from the beginning, didn't they? And look where that's gotten us.

 

I say it's time for BioWare to start listening more to a different crowd, one that craves much more than fleeting "content", on-the-rails hand-holding, and daily grindfests.

 

And remember: My subscription is worth the same as yours.

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I love how nowadays people assume a person's "tone" (aka now i'm "being mean" apparently lol) through typed words over the Internet.

 

Anyways, i read your post and hear you...However:

 

Answer me this: Why then, if my point-of-view (as a still paying customer) is so off-base, did TOR lose so many players in not even a year of release? Why then is this so called 'WoW killer' already going Free-to-Play? Why then did hundreds of Beta-testers like me point out all the many inherent flaws in TOR over a year ago, specifically Endgame, and now here we are (as predicted) with the very same issues still unresolved?

 

Why then are people like You so resistant to just SOME small sense of 'sandbox' elements, which would be completely optional btw (just like, say, Operations are) , but would provide the more sophisticated player (of which there are many more than you and EA realize) something within this "great star War" to strive toward?

 

Why then, if TOR is so perfect as it is, are subscription numbers continually decreasing each month?

 

BioWare listened to all of 'you' from the beginning, didn't they? And look where that's gotten us.

 

I say it's time for BioWare to start listening more to a different crowd, one that craves much more than fleeting "content", on-the-rails hand-holding, and daily grindfests.

 

And remember: My subscription is worth the same as yours.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=527676&highlight=orange

 

Your logic is the same as the one in this thread.

 

Also, you're playing a false victim. You were not accused of being "mean".

 

Long story short, a feature that you desire is not necessarily something that the community desires. Just because SWTOR has lost subs and some features that you wanted were not implemented, does not establish causation or a high level of apparent desire for the particular elements that you desire.

 

Just an fyi, I want sandbox elements too, and in my personal priority list they're above the new raid and WZ. That doesn't change the flaws in your logic.

Edited by Vandicus
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I said prior to beta, during beta and after launch that we needed orcs in the game for it to be a success.

 

And now here we are 9 months later and the game is failing because there aren't any orcs.

 

Bioware are useless and should listen to us.

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http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=527676&highlight=orange

 

Your logic is the same as the one in this thread.

 

Also, you're playing a false victim. You were not accused of being "mean".

 

Long story short, a feature that you desire is not necessarily something that the community desires. Just because SWTOR has lost subs and some features that you wanted were not implemented, does not establish causation or a high level of apparent desire for the particular elements that you desire.

 

Just an fyi, I want sandbox elements too, and in my personal priority list they're above the new raid and WZ. That doesn't change the flaws in your logic.

 

Hmm i didn't realize my questions were all rhetorical lol. Okay, if no one wants to answer them, then try this:

 

If TOR maintained everything is has now (and plans to have) but started adding some 'sandbox type' elements (as well as other 'Quality of Life' features that resemble what MMORPG's are supposed to be in their purest form) to help promote more PLAYER-driven content, would 'you' cancel your subscription?

 

Oh and btw: There is no "community" in TOR. There are no chat-bubbles, no player-cities, no guild ships, no reason to open-world pvp, no player-controlled events, no audience-viewing of Warzones, no pod-races, no inter-player space combat, etc. etc. etc. etc. --- Nothing much to make one feel as if we're connected to a Massively Multiplayer multi-planet multi-factional WAR...except for 2 obscure 'Live Events' and 1 spam-filled General Chat.

 

Therefore, my point is: The game is already going Free-to-Play...servers are already shutdown...What harm could it do to start taking things from the 'Wall of Crazy' and make them Wall of Reality?

 

Seriously BioWare, suck up whatever pride you have left and just concede that 'your way' was indeed effective for Level 1 to 50...but after that, it has failed miserably. You've already gone back on almost all your grand proclamations anyway (see early promo Videos) , so isn't it time now to start thinking outside the box?

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Hmm i didn't realize my questions were all rhetorical lol. Okay, if no one wants to answer them, then try this:

 

If TOR maintained everything is has now (and plans to have) but started adding some 'sandbox type' elements (as well as other 'Quality of Life' features that resemble what MMORPG's are supposed to be in their purest form) to help promote more PLAYER-driven content, would 'you' cancel your subscription?

 

Oh and btw: There is no "community" in TOR. There are no chat-bubbles, no player-cities, no guild ships, no reason to open-world pvp, no player-controlled events, no audience-viewing of Warzones, no pod-races, no inter-player space combat, etc. etc. etc. etc. --- Nothing much to make one feel as if we're connected to a Massively Multiplayer multi-planet multi-factional WAR...except for 2 obscure 'Live Events' and 1 spam-filled General Chat.

 

Therefore, my point is: The game is already going Free-to-Play...servers are already shutdown...What harm could it do to start taking things from the 'Wall of Crazy' and make them Wall of Reality?

 

 

There are a limited amount of resources to develop a game. Working on what you've mentioned means other things don't get worked on. This should be fairly easy for you to understand.

 

I never stated that implementing your desires would cause people to unsub. I'm saying that your desires are not the same as the majority's desires, and thus resources will be devoted more frequently to the majority's desires, aka new PvE and PvP content. Some of the things you've mentioned are under development, but they are NOT a top priority for obvious reasons.

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There are a limited amount of resources to develop a game. Working on what you've mentioned means other things don't get worked on. This should be fairly easy for you to understand.

 

I never stated that implementing your desires would cause people to unsub. I'm saying that your desires are not the same as the majority's desires, and thus resources will be devoted more frequently to the majority's desires, aka new PvE and PvP content. Some of the things you've mentioned are under development, but they are NOT a top priority for obvious reasons.

 

1) underlined: How do you know that? All due respect, but i'd prefer a 'yellow name' confirm before i take your word as "easy to understand".

 

2) bold: Who is this supposed "majority" and where are their confirmed "desires" listed? Obviously, everyone wants 'new PvE and PvP content' lol. But umm you would agree that it's impossible for even the deep-pockets of EA to provide BioWare's version of Content in a timely enough manner to satisfy the "majority", right? Therefore, imo, unless they start Updates literally once-a-month, wouldn't the implementation of certain Wall of Crazy sandbox'ish ideas do more to sustain players until the big expansion type updates came? (like Makeb, etc.)

 

3. italics: What are the "obvious reasons"? And i ask that seriously btw.

 

----------

 

And for those certain people PM'ing me: I am not "bashing the game" lol. I am an early Beta-tester and Day 1 paying customer, and all i want is for TOR to be what it should be (and was promised to be) : GREAT.

 

That's all. As of now, the game is good. I believe we (and the Star Wars brand) deserves better.

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1) underlined: How do you know that? All due respect, but i'd prefer a 'yellow name' confirm before i take your word as "easy to understand".

 

2) bold: Who is this supposed "majority" and where are their confirmed "desires" listed? Obviously, everyone wants 'new PvE and PvP content' lol. But umm you would agree that it's impossible for even the deep-pockets of EA to provide BioWare's version of Content in a timely enough manner to satisfy the "majority", right? Therefore, imo, unless they start Updates literally once-a-month, wouldn't the implementation of certain Wall of Crazy sandbox'ish ideas do more to sustain players until the big expansion type updates came? (like Makeb, etc.)

 

3. italics: What are the "obvious reasons"? And i ask that seriously btw.

 

----------

 

And for those certain people PM'ing me: I am not "bashing the game" lol. I am an early Beta-tester and Day 1 paying customer, and all i want is for TOR to be what it should be (and was promised to be) : GREAT.

 

That's all. As of now, the game is good. I believe we (and the Star Wars brand) deserves better.

 

 

1. This is a simple law of reality. There are limited resources for any given project. They have a limited amount of employees. If those employees are working on one project, they can't simultaneously be working on another project at the same instant in time. Just think about it, Bioware has only so many employees working on this game and they can only accomplish so much in an arbitrary timeframe, lets say one month. They cannot do everything at once in that month. Say they have to choose between producing a new operation and creating chat bubbles. If they create chat bubbles, they won't be able to work on the operation.

 

In actuality the Bioware workforce is currently divided into teams or "strike forces" (I can probably find the interview where I drew this from if you'd really care to have a source on this part) each focusing on different projects. I assume that the team working on new PvE and PvP content is larger than the team working on chat bubbles, because we are getting the former before and more frequently than the latter.

 

2. You are welcome to your opinion that catering to the majority is a poor strategy. Companies tend to disagree with that however. I actually disagree with a "cater to the majority strategy" in video game production as well, since I view them as akin to art products. I think that developers should produce games as they see fit, and this will end up in a better product that will sell well. This is of course my own opinion and not something that companies as a rule follow.

 

I cannot identify the "Majority" for you on any given situation. Companies take samples of populations and questions them to determine what changes should be made, and what products will be desirable. Bioware/EA has a better idea of the desires of the majority than I do, and so I assume they operate by normal company practice of catering to the majority of their target demopgrahic.

 

3. They ones that you mentioned that are under development, quality of life for example, are not top priority because the release of a whole ton of quality of life features is unlikely to bring in as many players as the release of a new operation. Compare the legacy perks to Denova. Do you think more people would be playing if legacy perks had been delivered without Denova rather than if Denova had been released without the legacy perks?

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I love how nowadays people assume a person's "tone" (aka now i'm "being mean" apparently lol) through typed words over the Internet.

 

Anyways, i read your post and hear you...However:

 

Answer me this: Why then, if my point-of-view (as a still paying customer) is so off-base, did TOR lose so many players in not even a year of release? Why then is this so called 'WoW killer' already going Free-to-Play? Why then did hundreds of Beta-testers like me point out all the many inherent flaws in TOR over a year ago, specifically Endgame, and now here we are (as predicted) with the very same issues still unresolved?

 

Why then are people like You so resistant to just SOME small sense of 'sandbox' elements, which would be completely optional btw (just like, say, Operations are) , but would provide the more sophisticated player (of which there are many more than you and EA realize) something within this "great star War" to strive toward?

 

Why then, if TOR is so perfect as it is, are subscription numbers continually decreasing each month?

 

BioWare listened to all of 'you' from the beginning, didn't they? And look where that's gotten us.

 

I say it's time for BioWare to start listening more to a different crowd, one that craves much more than fleeting "content", on-the-rails hand-holding, and daily grindfests.

 

And remember: My subscription is worth the same as yours.

 

1. I never said you were mean.

2. Only fans gave it that name. It was never officially advertised like that. You can't blame the company for a nickname they didn't even come up with.

3. I never said anything about your Point of View being off-base--I just said not everyone agrees with it as you pointed out that this is "what everyone wants" when that is not true.

4. Never said anything about resistance to it. I'm always willing to try new things--I just said that it wasn't anything I needed in the game. (Though, for collectors, nothing is optional FYI)

5. Lots of games are moving towards Free to Play and many did even better due to it so...

6. Never said SWTOR was perfect--everything can always use improvement.

7. Never said your opinion was less.

 

All I said was that not everyone feels the same way as you so you should not talk as if every single person does. You are one person. Speak for your own ideals, but do not act like every other person here also feels that way. I was just proving there are people who are looking forward to this thing. And as mentioned with statistics, about half of users have done an Operation. Not to mention half of users have done space missions within the last 30 days. I hate space missions because I'm terrible at them, but you don't see me being all "oh my god, why are they doing Space Missions? faslkfmlasl;afs" because I know there's people who do like them.

 

But yes, Vandicus said it better than I have what I meant.

 

Vandicus - Thank you for understanding my post.

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