I think the Jedi Battlemasters are pretty under-rated and I think the central reason for that is Cin Drallig, the idea that because Vader took him down so easily, he was basically amateur.

 

Let us analyse this, Vader was an equal for almost anybody in his time, the only three people I would put above pre-suit Vader are Yoda, Sidious and Windu, beyond that he is better than or is a match for anyone else in his time, he beat Count Dooku the ultimate master of Makashi whom called Anakin the finest Form V duellist he had ever seen, now whilst there are circumstances around this, he still beat Count Dooku, one of the best duellists of the day by far.

 

When Shaak Ti bumps into Vader, she very effectively uses that Ataru mastery to get the **** out of there as fast as she can, when Cin Drallig bumps into Vader he stands his ground, faces the Dark Lord and gets killed... by Vader... one of the finest swordsman of the day.

 

What is so amateur hour about that again? because all I'm seeing is Cin Drallig getting beaten by one of the best of all time, that shouldn't invalidate everything to his name.

 

Lets look at other Battlemasters:

 

Baas:Lets face it, even if he wasn't officially one, he damn well should have been): Trained Exar Kun, Nomi Sunrider, Ulic Qel-Droma, Cay Qel-Droma a bunch of other damn good Jedi, including all the ones that Kun turns to the Dark Side and countless other generations of Jedi, stood up to Kun twice, beat him once and stood up to him effectively, until the unorthodox came into play and he gets beaten/killed.

 

Raskta Lsu: She is clearly meant to be a Battlemaster not a Weapon Master, she spent her entire life mastering the lightsaber and was the main lightsaber instructor throughout the entire Order, Derp Karpyshyn strikes again., her one fight alone says everything you need to know.

She simultaneously defends all her allies, fills in for their weaknesses and presses the attack on Darth Bane forcing him into a retreat, Bane was a powerhouse and a master duellist, yet she managed to put him on the defensive for the second half of the duel and she manages to defend her allies as well, extremely impressive, it is only through Zannah's spell of concealment and a subsequent stab in the back, that Lsu is killed.

 

Kao Cen Darach: trained Satele Shan and according to canon dozens of other Jedi throughout his Master-hood, he faced down both Lord Vindican and his Apprentice Malgus single-handedly, took out Vindican with the blade ignition trick whilst incapacitating Malgus and then when worn out is killed by Malgus.

 

Cin Drallig: Trained by Master Yoda himself, equal to several Jedi Council members, a master of all seven lightsaber forms, he trained countless Jedi, including Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker and was only killed by Anakin who became Darth Vader and most famously is Nick Gillard backwards without the k.

 

I could go on and on, but it is clear to me that Jedi Battlemasters deserve a hell of a lot more credit than they seem to be given by most people.

I would actually put Anakin above Windu cause when Anakin is in ZoneAnakin mode, he is pretty beastly. But anyway...really I think the only Battlemaster underrated here is Cin.

 

Baas/Darach/Lsu all did something notable, even if Darach died he still fought against two Sith Lords....Cin...just up and died. Yeah he has all these quotes from sourcebooks/chars but there isn't any meat with the burger so to speak, all you got is the bun, lettuce and onions.

 

It would be far more impressive, if Cin had actual showings of his ability as a Battlemaster/Swordmaster.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

It is more as in, people seem to basically ignore the Battlemaster title, which I think is a massive mistake, it should carry a lot of weight, just my opinion.

 

Where Drallig comes in, doesn't he actually last awhile, long enough for a lot of the younglings/padawans to escape into the chamber, i dont think he just dies on the spot does he?

 

But my personal head-canon will always see Vader vs Cin Drallig as what happens in the ROTS game, because that fight is bad-***.

It is more as in, people seem to basically ignore the Battlemaster title, which I think is a massive mistake, it should carry a lot of weight, just my opinion.

 

Where Drallig comes in, doesn't he actually last awhile, long enough for a lot of the younglings/padawans to escape into the chamber, i dont think he just dies on the spot does he?

 

But my personal head-canon will always see Vader vs Cin Drallig as what happens in the ROTS game, because that fight is bad-***.

 

Should it? Yeah, but ya also need other stuff to back it...not that Cin doesn't have backing with the source/char quotes...but actual showings would be even better.

 

As far as I know...no, Anakin killed the two Padawans he was instructing during training. He made a couple of blows, Anakin then out maneuvered and slashed into his shoulder killing him.

 

Was it a crap death? Yeah...I think I did a better job with it in my fan fic of the two.

 

I wouldn't mind this death so much, if there was more to Cin in fleshing him out, showing his skill and so forth. What bothers me the most, is that he is a Battlemaster and Swordmaster....yet unlike the rest of the Battlemasters here....he doesn't have any showings, he just has quotes.

 

I would think someone personally trained by Yoda in saber combat, who then also trained Obi-Wan and Anakin would have more info...but no apparently not.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

A good question, no great question, would be why the hell he has made no appearances in the Clone Wars at all, like why not? why do we never see him in the show at all? he should be there, we should better yet see him fight, but for some reason he is forgotten about.

A good question, no great question, would be why the hell he has made no appearances in the Clone Wars at all, like why not? why do we never see him in the show at all? he should be there, we should better yet see him fight, but for some reason he is forgotten about.

 

He did appear in the episode Sabotage, though it was brief and not combat related. Aside from that....LITERALLY all his appearances have been only mentions or hologram(the ROTS 'duel'), then of course you got the sourcebooks.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

I think the Jedi Battlemasters are pretty under-rated and I think the central reason for that is Cin Drallig, the idea that because Vader took him down so easily, he was basically amateur.

 

Your basic assumption is wrong.First of all Cin Drallig is terrible ,while Vader is ... well ... Vader.

Second Jedi Battlemasters are not under-rated.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Kaedusz

I don't think it is Battlemasters in general, but just Cin Drallig (and Kas'im, but that's understandable). Video game aside, all of the appearances of Darth Vader vs. Cin Drallig show Cin being defeated fairly easily. Even the brief appearance in the Dark Nest Trilogy.

 

It is also sad that he has very few appearances.

Your basic assumption is wrong.First of all Cin Drallig is terrible ,while Vader is ... well ... Vader.

Second Jedi Battlemasters are not under-rated.

 

Curious what you mean by this.

Curious what you mean by this.

 

positive things towards Vader.

 

edit: i just saw the Kas'im part.Hey... Kas'im is awesome.Cin Drallig on the other hand...

 

Kas'im would have defeated Vader outright if he faced him as he was just after he fell to the dark side,without the suit and even after the suit,but ofc he would be no match for him if he achieved his full potential(even in the suit he could have been more than he was).But that is personal opinion and discussion for a different topic .

Edited September 25, 2013 by Kaedusz

Titles are in-universe and subjective to the skill of the fighters in that era. Similar to character quotes, they should be taken into account but not leaned upon very heavily. Much like quotes.

 

That said, I agree that Cin does result in unwarranted lack of trust in the Battlemaster title. I also agree that anyone who achieves such a rank should be held in high regard.

Titles are in-universe and subjective to the skill of the fighters in that era. Similar to character quotes, they should be taken into account but not leaned upon very heavily. Much like quotes.

 

That said, I agree that Cin does result in unwarranted lack of trust in the Battlemaster title. I also agree that anyone who achieves such a rank should be held in high regard.

 

Well Nick is also known as The Swordmaster in RL too and does teach Lightsaber combat.

Titles are in-universe and subjective to the skill of the fighters in that era. Similar to character quotes, they should be taken into account but not leaned upon very heavily. Much like quotes.

 

That said, I agree that Cin does result in unwarranted lack of trust in the Battlemaster title. I also agree that anyone who achieves such a rank should be held in high regard.

 

Canonically speaking, Battlemasters are meant to be the very best lightsaber instructors in the Order, so valuable that the High Council views it as wasteful to have them sent on missions.

 

This is likely why we hardly see Cin Drallig.

 

Also, the Battlemaster has as much authority as the Jedi High Council when it comes to promoting new lightsaber instructors.

Canonically speaking, Battlemasters are meant to be the very best lightsaber instructors in the Order, so valuable that the High Council views it as wasteful to have them sent on missions.

 

This is likely why we hardly see Cin Drallig.

 

Also, the Battlemaster has as much authority as the Jedi High Council when it comes to promoting new lightsaber instructors.

 

Hm? Curious where the source is on this, because there are Jedi Battlemasters out there that have done missions. Of course they don't have to be sent out on missions to showcase their skill, there are other ways.

 

Plus it isn't like Cin was a Battlemaster from the start, so there is some room to go back before such a time and show him doing stuff.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Hm? Curious where the source is on this, because there are Jedi Battlemasters out there that have done missions. Of course they don't have to be sent out on missions to showcase their skill, there are other ways.

 

Plus it isn't like Cin was a Battlemaster from the start, so there is some room to go back before such a time and show him doing stuff.

 

It's in The Jedi Path. It is mainly referring to lightsaber combat instructors, but Battlemasters are instructors sooo...

 

It also mentions that those truly gifted are not sent on missions and are reserved for teaching positions, so that could be another for Cin's lack of action.

It's in The Jedi Path. It is mainly referring to lightsaber combat instructors, but Battlemasters are instructors sooo...

 

It also mentions that those truly gifted are not sent on missions and are reserved for teaching positions, so that could be another for Cin's lack of action.

 

Well as said he was just a regular Jedi before becoming Battlemaster, so there is room there. Plus also other things that could showcase him more.

Well as said he was just a regular Jedi before becoming Battlemaster, so there is room there. Plus also other things that could showcase him more.

 

We can only hope for more of The Troll.

One thing: Count Dooku was not a master of Form 5, he was a master of Form 2. He poured over it like kittens to milk. I say before he turned to the dark side, he could have beaten Mace. Period. Because Vaapad Style is extremely reckless, and dooku can easily counter it.

^^The necromancy is strong with this one...