Title.

Master Mode isn't for low level. Veteran is for low levels.

MM FPs are only available for level 70+ or in case of the newest ones only for 75 , so no low level characters in there.

Gear usually isn't the issue anyway but rather standing in stupid and ignoring mechanics or just not knowing how to play. Gear or Tactical requirements won't solve that.

Explain mechanics to PUGs or group with friends only if you can't deal with random players and varying level of skill.

I wholeheartedly agree. MMFPs should have gear requirements especially the newer ones. I recently had a group in Meridian with both the Tank and Healer had 285 irating on their gear. No amount of explanation of boss mechanics could compensate for that. Now don't get me wrong, I do enjoy a challenge every so often, but after 3 wipes on the first boss there was no way we were going to complete it. Sucks too because MMFP queues take forever to pop and after all that wait you end up in a lousy group. Edited January 22, 2022 by TonyTricicolo

Gear or level wont resolve newb issue. After day 2 of being gone 6 years, I was 75 and GS 306. Its more about knowing the FP and mechanics, where to walk, etc... since combat is so boring and annoying pressing 32+ different key combinations. the key is to avoid as many mobs as possible (well, that applies to any FP or instance)

You can know the mechanics all you want but you if can't withstand the damage, put out the damage, or heal the damage you put a burden on the rest of the team. Edited January 22, 2022 by TonyTricicolo

I am split on this.

 

For sub level 75 flashpoints, level and gear don't really matter so underleveled and undergeard players are not an issue (well, healing a boosted and inexperienced lvl 70 tank in 270 can still be a pain).

 

On the other hand, for true lvl 75 content (Meridian, Spirit of Vengeance, Secrets of the Enclave), every point of stats matters as there is no more cap, gear does matter for this content and I am all in for locking undergeared players from it.

 

And the question will remain with 7.0 as old content is brought to lvl 80. I have worked on a few toons on PTS for the titles and just gearing from 318 to 326, I could already see a huge difference in performance. Blue 326 isn't even that optimized and some fights in MM can be hairy (heck most bosses enrage on PTS).

Edited January 22, 2022 by demotivator

For a brief time WoW had the "Ready for Raiding" scenario. In order to qualify for a raid (possibly Mythic dungeon, it's been awhile) the player had to pass a scripted encounter. (DPS had to deal with more and more adds, some of whom, CLUTCH THE PEARLS, had to be interrupted, Tanks had to survive an encounter, and healers had to heal their AI group)

 

Guess what happened? You bet.

 

Players couldn't pass the scenario. Oh, the boards were awash with threads decrying how "unfair" the situation was that paying customers were being denied access to content.

 

So WoW caved and removed the requirement. (Similar arguments were raised concerning the 'Mage Tower', a scripted scenario that gave you unique transmogs for your Legendary item(s). They did NOT relent on that one)

 

This game does an absolutely horrid job of teaching players basic mechanics and fundamentals. You die more leveling up from falling than MOBs.

I'd have to disagree - the current restrictions are good enough. I've been in lots of MM flashpoints with fully geared, level 75s who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.

 

And conversely, last night I completed an MM flashpoint** with another DPS and HK-51/55*** (tank) and Bowdaar/Z0-0M (healer) (I started off using Bowdaar as a healer, but then switched to Z0-0M for no particular reason.)

 

** The Esseles - not exactly difficult in any case.

*** Not sure which one.

Edited January 23, 2022 by JediQuaker

Four players that do not meet those gearing requirements can complete all flashpoints currently in game.

For a brief time WoW had the "Ready for Raiding" scenario. In order to qualify for a raid (possibly Mythic dungeon, it's been awhile) the player had to pass a scripted encounter. (DPS had to deal with more and more adds, some of whom, CLUTCH THE PEARLS, had to be interrupted, Tanks had to survive an encounter, and healers had to heal their AI group)

 

Guess what happened? You bet.

 

Players couldn't pass the scenario.

Well, only the purely mediocre and snowflake participation trophy players couldn't complete the minimum required, which was as Silver Rank in their desired roles.

 

I earned Gold rank for all roles, and Endless Proven Healer as well.

Heck, I even taught "classes" on how to do it in my guild, and my half-blind end-stage glaucoma girlfriend managed to achieve the Proven Healer title after only an hours worth of attempts.

 

If players in the community truly are that horrible at playing the game and can't even muster a modicum of effort, then I say let them rot among the rest of their weak and pathetic ilk.

Honestly it's a catch 22.

 

On one hand it makes the time of people in the ques go so much smother because you know everyone that joins you in que know at least the basics like add control, cc's, interupts and the like.

 

But on the otherhand it also disheartens alot of people because they either won't bother trying to meet the requirements or physical can't, i know that from personal experiance and honestly it sucks.

 

Back in WoD i had the time of my life in those ques everything went smothly but my friend who had physical disabilitys couldn't do the challanges they simply weren't fast enough to meet the requirements couldn't join me i also have disabilitys but i was younger and more able then them and when we did group togeather to do the mithics we never wiped.

 

This system is both a blessing and a curse, a blessing for those in the que because you are with like minded players who know what they are doing and can just stomp everything but then you have those outside the system that are left in the pugging world and that can be a very dark place when you have no que.

 

Honestly i'm for the system or at least a trainer where the people that want to see where they are at or just a way to brush up on knowlage if available because i've helped alot of people over the years learn these skills and most of them have been happy to learn it some are more stubern then most mainly because the game itself didn't teach them and having something like this would be a great boon for players either being force or just optional.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Darkchip

If players in the community truly are that horrible at playing the game and can't even muster a modicum of effort, then I say let them rot among the rest of their weak and pathetic ilk.

 

I cannot remember ever reading a more elitist, obdurate, uncompassionate comment that anyone ever made on these forums, and that includes the vile anti-gay slur thrown at me on this forum years ago.

 

Everyone walking through the front door is at a different stage of game play. Some are just getting started. Some may have never played an MMO before and are just feeling their way around. Some may be very young. Some may have accessibility issues.

 

Many, many reasons exist why people don't play as good as you, and projecting onto people your opinion of what you believe they're doing (or not doing), and then turning around and condemning people for it, showing nothing but disdain and contempt for them for it, is exactly why people label certain aspects of this game toxic, from gen chat, to PvP and beyond.

Edited January 23, 2022 by xordevoreaux

Title.

Master Mode isn't for low level. Veteran is for low levels.

 

As someone who carried a MM ilum without a tactical or set bonus, as a dps, no. (it was by accident, I forgot to check before I queued)

 

Like I had groups on the pts where we all were sub optimal item rating, 318 for pts, and we did fine. Got a few enrages, but I could tank it well enough and the healer was at least semi competent.

 

They tried this system back in 5.x, and all it did was make a stigma around the handful of flashpoints that required the I rating. To be fair, umbara is still one of the harder MM FPs, but chiss and especially nathema are cakewalks.

As someone who carried a MM ilum without a tactical or set bonus, as a dps, no. (it was by accident, I forgot to check before I queued)

 

Oh come on, this is Ilum you are talking about. With sub lvl 75 flashpoints, you can get away with undergeared people since stats like Mastery and Power are capped, so they don't really matter. Basically in 306 you are overgeared for this content.

 

Lvl 75 flashpoints (Meridian, Spirit of Vengeance, Secrets of the Enclave) are a different beast. There is no cap, every point of stat matters and being undergeared is easily felt.

 

Just the matter of HP, you'll be far behind everyone else meaning that the highest peaks of damage (Troya Ajak in SoV with her AOE, the terentatek in Enclave for instance) will get you close to death if not dead. I can't count how many people in 280 died from these bosses while everyone else was fine. This is purely mathematical.

 

Try to do the graul with an undergeared DPS, you basically end with only one DPS to clear the adds and if you are unlucky that the geared DPS was picked by the adds, you're in for a bad time.

Edited January 24, 2022 by demotivator

But all MMOs are like this just use the kick function.

Gear level requirements are fine, but you have to be all maxed out to participate in MM Flashpoints.

 

Most MM flashpoints are not even difficult, you just have to learn the mechanics.

 

I loath vet mod because its just run run run and face smash keys on the key board.

 

MM is just much more fun and I meet cool players there usually.

meh, just use the votekick option if you get a player in your group who is both very much undergeared and also terrible a the game/class, someone with bad gear can still be perfectly fine as long as they are good so I rather avoid more weird requirements

On one hand it makes the time of people in the ques go so much smother because you know everyone that joins you in que know at least the basics like add control, cc's, interupts and the like.

 

That is a mighty big assumption.

MM Flashpoints are not hard enough overall to warrant this type of limit. Maybe require 75/270 ish ilvl. But 306+tactical is beyond overkill for every single one of them. Moreso when you consider the fact only a handful of them could be considered truly difficult.

All level 70 FP content can be completed with a group of all level 70s. I know this for a fact because when 6.0 came out, I ran MM FPs on the very first day, no one was level 75 and we still won.

 

If you guys cannot complete this baby-grade content because of one guy in the group not having maximum stats, then your group clearly needs practice. It is not a gear issue and never was.

Edited January 26, 2022 by HaoZhao

For a brief time WoW had the "Ready for Raiding" scenario. In order to qualify for a raid (possibly Mythic dungeon, it's been awhile) the player had to pass a scripted encounter. (DPS had to deal with more and more adds, some of whom, CLUTCH THE PEARLS, had to be interrupted, Tanks had to survive an encounter, and healers had to heal their AI group)

 

Guess what happened? You bet.

 

Players couldn't pass the scenario. Oh, the boards were awash with threads decrying how "unfair" the situation was that paying customers were being denied access to content.

 

So WoW caved and removed the requirement. (Similar arguments were raised concerning the 'Mage Tower', a scripted scenario that gave you unique transmogs for your Legendary item(s). They did NOT relent on that one)

 

This game does an absolutely horrid job of teaching players basic mechanics and fundamentals. You die more leveling up from falling than MOBs.

 

this scripted is a amazing. we still have lowbies coming in to MM flashpoints. This is really cool