You want to know what's really bad for new players though? Coming in here and seeing every thread filled with you two bickering.

You know what, I had a longer message here. I posted it, and then I deleted it, because the debates will continue. So, let the naysayers win. I won't defend the innocent anymore. You guys believe what you want to believe, and all the newbies who come in can jump on the band wagon of "everyone's a cheater" because that will be the predominant belief they will encounter on this forum. Well done. Very well done.

I believe Bioware considers terrain bug exploits to be exploits/cheating. At least they have in the past both in terms of sanctioning players and in fixing the terrain.

I guess it depends how we define the word cheat. Using Exploits is against the rules, but its an exploit, not a traditional cheat. Its not a hack and its not data packet manipulation. It is simply using terrain features in the game to your advantage. Granted those features are not there by design, they are flaws in the coding, but you're only using whats there and free to use for anyone. Absolutely use of these exploits should be sanctioned / punished. Its just that the word "cheat" carries a more severe connotation to it. Use of these exploits, while bad, is not the same level as cheating by using a hack. Throwing the word "cheat" around among newbies gives them impressions of people using damage or speed hacks. You say cheat in reference to an exploiter and they jump ten steps and think it was a cheater who one-shot them. So while yeah there probably is some technical argument to say using exploits is cheating - under the same overall umbrella of against the rules etc - this is why I feel its better to define it as using exploits. Don't forget that Piledriving is 100% an exploit, its just one that has become accepted.

An exploit is still cheating. Bioware have said so in ground pvp, so we should assume it’s the same for GSF.

Most cheating in PC games, especially swtor aren’t always hacks. The majority are players exploiting a bug or broken code or wintrading (ranked pvp).

The problem as I’ve always seen it, is most players don’t understand the difference in the types of cheats available in computer games, so they call all cheating hacks, when it very rarely is.

Usually if you can educate players what they are seeing around them, many stop calling legitimate skills / abilities as hacks. And if you can educate them to identify real cheating, you reduce the hacks calls, which improves player experiences. It also reduces the work load for Bioware CS going through false reports,

The important thing to remember is cheating is usually rare or only done by a very small percentage of players. But if we deny cheating every time someone says they saw it, it leads to more mistrust. We should be open to what people are saying and ask questions before passing judgment on what they are saying.

Sometimes it will be them not recognising legitimate play. But occasionally they will see things that the majority don’t because of the times they play or what server they play on. Just because someone who plays only prime time or on server x doesn’t see cheating, doesn’t mean it’s not happening at other times or other servers.

Denying cheating only allows the cheats to propagate and not educating players allows them to go unreported. Which makes Bioware’s job hard and let’s the cheats get away with it. Which in turn drives legit players away from the game wether they see legit cheating or not.

Reputation for cheating is just as damaging as the cheating itself. You only need to look at how people see ranked pvp in this game. If you ask many non ranked pvpers about cheating in ranked and they will say it’s a pandemic. When in fact it’s only a handful of players who cheat in ranked, but you wouldn’t know it from reading about it.

As always, if you see someone you think of cheating, report to Bioware. But if you don’t know, you should feel comfortable coming to the forums to ask about it and learn if what you saw is cheating or legit play. You shouldn’t be attacked or made to feel foolish because you don’t know.

In saying all of that. I’m still learning in GSF and I can sympathise with people thinking others are hacking because some of the abilities in GSF aren’t easy to understand when you’re on the receiving end of something that seems suspicious.

I would like to know what the term “ticking” means in regards to cheating. I noticed a previous post that refers to it and I don’t fully understand the term, even though I think I know what it looks like. How does it work and is there any legitimate abilities that it could be confused with? And the other thing I’m trying to understand is what piledriving is?

Despite what Luc said, Piledriving is not an exploit. The devs made that change (it didn't used to be a thing), and signed off on it after people noticed and asked whether they considered it a bug/exploit. "Shoot both guns at the same time," was on the wish list for 5.5 changes, and was delivered though it never got into the patch notes.

In the Starguard/Rycer the 1 key swaps primary weapons. Rate of fire is controlled by an internal cooldown on a cannon. Each cannon has it's own internal cooldown. So if the cooldown timings line up reasonably well, it is possible to fire, swap weapons, and fire the other weapon, getting two shots in (one from each cannon) where if you just held the fire button down you would only get one shot from the first cannon. Basically you get to fire both primaries "at the same time" sort of. The timings work if you pair HLCs with either Quads or Ion Cannons, though amost no one does it with Ions because after 2-3 cycles of this the target's shields will be gone, at which point Ions are nearly useless.

Ticking is taking a bomber, finding a nook in terrain, and then usually stopping and using strafing to slide in as tight as possible. Usually dropping mines and/or drones in front of the final position so that they absorb incoming fire. Then they fire out with HLC.

Easy to deal with using Proton torp, Thermite torp, Concussion missile, Slug/Plasma railgun, or HLCs on a strike with Directional shields with shields front, if you can get good line of sight on the tick bomber from 7+ km away. Zipping past and hitting EMP field can also work very slowly if they don't have heals, so can a battlescout with cooldowns popped and hydrospanner, though it may take more than one pass. As long as it's not a sat that you're trying to capture you can always just ignore them. If they're really buried in deep, say in Iokath, then they and their drones don't have line of sight to much of anything, and as long as your team ignores them they're basically an AFK member of the other team for all practical purposes.

I would like to know what the term “ticking” means in regards to cheating. I noticed a previous post that refers to it and I don’t fully understand the term, even though I think I know what it looks like. How does it work and is there any legitimate abilities that it could be confused with? And the other thing I’m trying to understand is what piledriving is?

Piledriving: https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=944782

Ticking: Ticking is not a cheat. I wouldn't even consider it degenerate game play. Ticking, as a strategy, is almost always with a bomber. It involves you, in a bomber, maneuvering into one of several very legitimate recess on the underside of a satellite in Domination. You remain stationary, and deploy your mines/drones immediately on cooldown. This makes you somewhat difficult to target, and if anyone approaches you they eat a faceful of mines and you finish them off with your heavy lasers. I honestly don't know how the term "ticking" came to be associated with this practice other than, like a ticking clock, you deploy your mines as fast as you can.

However, it is a strategy that can be countered. Starfighters which can launch EMP Missiles can target, well, pretty much anything around the sat and cause AoE damage to said bomber also disabling its deployables. Gunships can use Ion Railgun to cause AoE damage to the bomber. Or, they can target the bomber from range and destroy it. Or, lock a proton torpedo from 11.5k away. Stationary targets are very easy to destroy.

Ticking is an effective strategy against newer players, but experienced players can deal with the problem fairly easily. Staying still while under attack is certain death in GSF and that is the ultimate failure of the ticking strategy.

An exploit is still cheating. Bioware have said so in ground pvp, so we should assume it’s the same for GSF.

 

Most cheating in PC games, especially swtor aren’t always hacks. The majority are players exploiting a bug or broken code or wintrading (ranked pvp).

 

The problem as I’ve always seen it, is most players don’t understand the difference in the types of cheats available in computer games, so they call all cheating hacks, when it very rarely is. - Exactly this.

 

Usually if you can educate players what they are seeing around them, many stop calling legitimate skills / abilities as hacks. And if you can educate them to identify real cheating, you reduce the hacks calls, which improves player experiences. It also reduces the work load for Bioware CS going through false reports, - Yup

 

The important thing to remember is cheating is usually rare or only done by a very small percentage of players. But if we deny cheating every time someone says they saw it, it leads to more mistrust. We should be open to what people are saying and ask questions before passing judgment on what they are saying. - Some people scream too loud for how small the percentage of cheaters is."Another day, another round of cheaters" is an exaggeration by any metric. In GSF at least.

 

Sometimes it will be them not recognising legitimate play. But occasionally they will see things that the majority don’t because of the times they play or what server they play on. Just because someone who plays only prime time or on server x doesn’t see cheating, doesn’t mean it’s not happening at other times or other servers.

 

Denying cheating only allows the cheats to propagate and not educating players allows them to go unreported. Which makes Bioware’s job hard and let’s the cheats get away with it. Which in turn drives legit players away from the game wether they see legit cheating or not. Am I denying cheating happens? I have never given that impression. People take that impression, but they need to re-read what I wrote.

 

Reputation for cheating is just as damaging as the cheating itself. You only need to look at how people see ranked pvp in this game. If you ask many non ranked pvpers about cheating in ranked and they will say it’s a pandemic. When in fact it’s only a handful of players who cheat in ranked, but you wouldn’t know it from reading about it.

 

As always, if you see someone you think of cheating, report to Bioware. But if you don’t know, you should feel comfortable coming to the forums to ask about it and learn if what you saw is cheating or legit play. You shouldn’t be attacked or made to feel foolish because you don’t know. - You asked. Most don't. Most proclaim. "another day another round of cheaters" is not asking. It is proclaiming and expecting people to agree with you. It is actively trying to get people to believe cheating is more prolific than the "small percentage" that it is. Accusing me of defending cheaters as if I know they are cheating and want it to continue.. I have no words.

 

In saying all of that. I’m still learning in GSF and I can sympathise with people thinking others are hacking because some of the abilities in GSF aren’t easy to understand when you’re on the receiving end of something that seems suspicious. - So like you said, ask, don't accuse. That is the key difference here. I am fine with people asking. I asked. I am not fine with people accusing. Accusations of unfounded cheating are as toxic to this game as the cheaters themselves. Unfortunately some people have made up their minds before they talk to anyone and won't be convinced otherwise. When those people shout loud on a forum, are we mean to ignore it, allow it or even enable it by not countering it?

 

I would like to know what the term “ticking” means in regards to cheating. I noticed a previous post that refers to it and I don’t fully understand the term, even though I think I know what it looks like. How does it work and is there any legitimate abilities that it could be confused with? And the other thing I’m trying to understand is what piledriving is?

........

Despite what Luc said, Piledriving is not an exploit. The devs made that change (it didn't used to be a thing), and signed off on it after people noticed and asked whether they considered it a bug/exploit. "Shoot both guns at the same time," was on the wish list for 5.5 changes, and was delivered though it never got into the patch notes.

The last I was aware, Audsen discovered it, they asked the Devs if it was considered an exploit and if they could be sanctioned by using it? The devs never replied.

I certainly know many players who consider it an exploit that got the okay by default, due to no intervention from the devs when asked.

Your case makes sense though, and I think it could be interpreted either way, Its the lack of communication from the devs as to whether it was by design or intentional. Like the Line of Sight mechanic - we don't truly know if that is by design or if that is an exploit, and there are people that will land one side of the debate or the other.

So I will happily retract my statement that it is "100%" an exploit - as I didn't know it was on the wish list for 5.5 But with the lack of dev feedback on it, and not being in the patch notes, I could definitely see how its considered an exploit, and I wouldn't call anyone wrong for saying it is, as we don't truly know. Also its not in the ship description that the ship can fire both its primary weapons at once, which kinda feel like it should be, if it was by design.

Or has there been dev feedback on it that I am unaware of?

And for the record - I have been accused of being a cheater because I use Piledriving. More than once.

Piledriving: https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=944782

 

Ticking: Ticking is not a cheat. I wouldn't even consider it degenerate game play. Ticking, as a strategy, is almost always with a bomber. It involves you, in a bomber, maneuvering into one of several very legitimate recess on the underside of a satellite in Domination. You remain stationary, and deploy your mines/drones immediately on cooldown. This makes you somewhat difficult to target, and if anyone approaches you they eat a faceful of mines and you finish them off with your heavy lasers. I honestly don't know how the term "ticking" came to be associated with this practice other than, like a ticking clock, you deploy your mines as fast as you can.

However, it is a strategy that can be countered. Starfighters which can launch EMP Missiles can target, well, pretty much anything around the sat and cause AoE damage to said bomber also disabling its deployables. Gunships can use Ion Railgun to cause AoE damage to the bomber. Or, they can target the bomber from range and destroy it. Or, lock a proton torpedo from 11.5k away. Stationary targets are very easy to destroy.

Ticking is an effective strategy against newer players, but experienced players can deal with the problem fairly easily. Staying still while under attack is certain death in GSF and that is the ultimate failure of the ticking strategy.

Only thing to add is that they also do it in TDM, and they don't always use one way textures either. There are some holes on maps that have only one entry point. A cave if you will. One on Kuat for exmaple makes the tick unkillable as you need to get into the hole to get him, and you die before you can. But you can destroy his nest, and that renders him ineffective.

 

You want to know what's really bad for new players though? Coming in here and seeing every thread filled with you two bickering.

In spoilers as again, it's going off topic.

Back on Topic

BW doesn't seem to care who plays gsf, whether pvp/pve players. All they seem to care about is that it's popping, all the time now.

In spoilers as again, it's going off topic.

 

 

It's worse when one of the people who puts up the videos, and sings the praises of gsf buries his head in the sand, and tries to hide cheating. It's also worse when said person admitted that people 'use' broken textures to hide, shoot, and no be able to be targeted, calling it bad form, instead of an EXPLOIT. That is bad for the game, that is stating to new player, find exploits and use them.

 

Ticking, as it seems to be called, isn't an exploit, but a strategy, but that's not what we have here, people who tick, can be targeted, and taken out.

 

As for glitching/teleporting, again, this is an exploit, an obvious one to anyone who's played games, and especially pvp. Ignoring this, also is bad for new players, defending it, is worse.

The sad part of this, I care very little about GSF, I do it purely for the GS/CQ points, yet I seem more interested in getting rid of exploiters than people who love the game....

 

 

 

Back on Topic

 

BW doesn't seem to care who plays gsf, whether pvp/pve players. All they seem to care about is that it's popping, all the time now.

You are twisting my words and you well know it.

Or has there been dev feedback on it that I am unaware of?

I'm pretty sure there was, because it was a matter of concern to the people who were playtesting for 5.5.

I don't think it was ever in any official public channel. Can't remember if it ever came up in another channel, and even if I went and looked it up I wouldn't be able to say because playtest communications for 5.5 were subject to a NDA.

The basic change though, was to make the Primary Swap system of the T1F follow the same cooldown rules as the Secondary Swap system used in the T2F and in the T1G and T2G. It was something that both required deliberate alteration, and that made the game mechanics more consistent across ships. Can't say if they meant for it to go live, but when directly asked by a bunch of very concerned GSF nuts whether we'd get banned for using it we did eventually get a, "don't worry, you're fine." Can't remember if it was community team, or GSF devs that gave us that though. I want to say it was either a PM or Discord (or similar) response to one person, or maybe a Cantina event question? At any rate the unofficial "official" position got out and spread rapidly enough via word of mouth so that within a month or so everyone who knew about piledriving was using it with no concern of sanction from Bioware.

Not sure that's an ideal communication strategy on Bioware's part, but from the player perspective we got a new toy and permission to use it, and from Bioware's end it was a reasonable patch change that didn't really need to be fixed even if it had escaped official documentation, and didn't require any action other than an unofficial "ok". So I guess it worked out well enough.

**Edit:

Re: Line of sight. Ignoring the whole "coded location of weapon coordinates does not always match animation of ship and hit box," issue, terrain object art, and terrain object collision boxes are supposed to match. You're not supposed to be able to fly through, deploy mines/drones through, or shoot through terrain. You're also not supposed to explode because you flew into an invisible collision plane that sticks out from a sat into "empty" space. Seeing the checkerboard of the untextured collision surface if your ship is stuck and vibrating on said surface and your camera is at just the right angle doesn't count. Discrepancies are bugs, using those bugs for advantage is an exploit.

It's a matter of there being collision objects that are one set of mesh objects, and art display objects that are another set of objects. So say if they make a new sphere in a GSF map. There's a mesh with a set of textures UV mapped onto it that the shaders draw and that's what you see (actually there are several meshes and several textures so that based on view distance you can have either a finer model for pretty pictures or a low detail model for better framerate). There's a separate mesh that is a collision object, and the engine tests for things intersecting the polygons to calculate weapon hits, ship damage and movement from collisions, etc. In theory, these two sets of objects are supposed to be the same shape, the same size, perfectly aligned, and not have polys that are "holes" or that have surfaces reversed/inside out, or that only collision test in one direction when they should test both ways. They're a bit better about this in GSF than in the general PvE world at large, but there have been mistakes found in the past that have been fixed. If you find new mistakes, document and submit, because in principle they should be willing to fix them.

If they can find the time, that is.

I'm pretty sure there was, because it was a matter of concern to the people who were playtesting for 5.5.

 

I don't think it was ever in any official public channel. Can't remember if it ever came up in another channel, and even if I went and looked it up I wouldn't be able to say because playtest communications for 5.5 were subject to a NDA.

 

The basic change though, was to make the Primary Swap system of the T1F follow the same cooldown rules as the Secondary Swap system used in the T2F and in the T1G and T2G. It was something that both required deliberate alteration, and that made the game mechanics more consistent across ships. Can't say if they meant for it to go live, but when directly asked by a bunch of very concerned GSF nuts whether we'd get banned for using it we did eventually get a, "don't worry, you're fine." Can't remember if it was community team, or GSF devs that gave us that though. I want to say it was either a PM or Discord (or similar) response to one person, or maybe a Cantina event question? At any rate the unofficial "official" position got out and spread rapidly enough via word of mouth so that within a month or so everyone who knew about piledriving was using it with no concern of sanction from Bioware.

 

Not sure that's an ideal communication strategy on Bioware's part, but from the player perspective we got a new toy and permission to use it, and from Bioware's end it was a reasonable patch change that didn't really need to be fixed even if it had escaped official documentation, and didn't require any action other than an unofficial "ok". So I guess it worked out well enough.

 

**Edit:

 

Re: Line of sight. Ignoring the whole "coded location of weapon coordinates does not always match animation of ship and hit box," issue, terrain object art, and terrain object collision boxes are supposed to match. You're not supposed to be able to fly through, deploy mines/drones through, or shoot through terrain. You're also not supposed to explode because you flew into an invisible collision plane that sticks out from a sat into "empty" space. Seeing the checkerboard of the untextured collision surface if your ship is stuck and vibrating on said surface and your camera is at just the right angle doesn't count. Discrepancies are bugs, using those bugs for advantage is an exploit.

 

It's a matter of there being collision objects that are one set of mesh objects, and art display objects that are another set of objects. So say if they make a new sphere in a GSF map. There's a mesh with a set of textures UV mapped onto it that the shaders draw and that's what you see (actually there are several meshes and several textures so that based on view distance you can have either a finer model for pretty pictures or a low detail model for better framerate). There's a separate mesh that is a collision object, and the engine tests for things intersecting the polygons to calculate weapon hits, ship damage and movement from collisions, etc. In theory, these two sets of objects are supposed to be the same shape, the same size, perfectly aligned, and not have polys that are "holes" or that have surfaces reversed/inside out, or that only collision test in one direction when they should test both ways. They're a bit better about this in GSF than in the general PvE world at large, but there have been mistakes found in the past that have been fixed. If you find new mistakes, document and submit, because in principle they should be willing to fix them.

 

If they can find the time, that is.

I wasn't aware there had actually been a response from the devs about piledriving. First I've heard of it, but fair enough. The nature of the response, the fact that it did not come through any official channels, has no doubt helped to keep the stance that Piledriving is an exploit alive and well.

Rergarding the Line of sight exploit or mechanic, whatever you want to call it. I always used to take the stance that is was an exploit. But I can't remember who it was, I think Sriia, might even have been Invis or Yui, someone was saying that due to the way it works with Gunships, they are not technically shooting though something. It just looks like that. It allows the Gunship to be behind cover, but the rail gun to be able to shoot still. Ergo person concludes Gunship shot me through cover. And since Gunship is the only ship it works for in this specific way, you could believe that it is designed that way. Ever since then I have taken a more neutral stance on it.

You are twisting my words and you well know it.

But if you want to keep arguing this over and over, and going nowhere, please set up another thread, and let people actually talk here about the issue the op brought up.

Just like to add, that as long as CQ/GS points for GSF are so far above everything else, you'll continue to get PvE people in to gsf. If they want to stop that, they need to nerf gsf, or bring more solo friendly options up to the same par as GSF. Going back to an old argument, Story players, probably have the worst amount of CQ points going, it's why they HAVE to do other content (like GSF) to keep up) as for GS, there are no options for GS, unless you are lucky enough to be doing the story on the planet the kill x, pops on.

There are plenty of people who would happily drop gsf, and go back to just stories, etc, if they got the same amount of gs/gsf points. Which is what this whole topic is about... BW know,

No, those are your words, you claimed it wasn't a cheat, that it is known, etc. Yet, it is an exploit, by BW standards is against ToS, and a cheat. You also accused me of not knowing the difference between lag, and someone teleporting, or glitching. And you claimed that us pointing out that the cheating is happening is bad for the game.

 

But if you want to keep arguing this over and over, and going nowhere, please set up another thread, and let people actually talk here about the issue the op brought up.

 

 

Just like to add, that as long as CQ/GS points for GSF are so far above everything else, you'll continue to get PvE people in to gsf. If they want to stop that, they need to nerf gsf, or bring more solo friendly options up to the same par as GSF. Going back to an old argument, Story players, probably have the worst amount of CQ points going, it's why they HAVE to do other content (like GSF) to keep up) as for GS, there are no options for GS, unless you are lucky enough to be doing the story on the planet the kill x, pops on.

 

There are plenty of people who would happily drop gsf, and go back to just stories, etc, if they got the same amount of gs/gsf points. Which is what this whole topic is about... BW know,

The amount I do for this community. Making analysis videos, training people, on here answering questions daily. And all you can do is vilify me just because I have a different view of how prolific cheating is to you, and won't support you in your comments on here on a daily basis about how bad things are. Charming, Really charming. And yes you are still twisting my words. At no point did I condone using exploits, or defend cheaters. Both of which you are claiming I am doing. People like you make me not want to bother trying to help anyone.

The amount I do for this community. Making analysis videos, training people, on here answeri.

To the mods, I've tried to keep this on topic, but I will not be silent when someone tries to besmirch me like this.

To Luc,

I'll just repeat what I've already said, and hope you actually read it this time

"But if you want to keep arguing this over and over, and going nowhere, please set up another thread, and let people actually talk here about the issue the op brought up.

Just like to add, that as long as CQ/GS points for GSF are so far above everything else, you'll continue to get PvE people in to gsf. If they want to stop that, they need to nerf gsf, or bring more solo friendly options up to the same par as GSF. Going back to an old argument, Story players, probably have the worst amount of CQ points going, it's why they HAVE to do other content (like GSF) to keep up) as for GS, there are no options for GS, unless you are lucky enough to be doing the story on the planet the kill x, pops on.

There are plenty of people who would happily drop gsf, and go back to just stories, etc, if they got the same amount of gs/gsf points. Which is what this whole topic is about... BW know,"

Piledriving: https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=944782

 

Ticking: Ticking is not a cheat. I wouldn't even consider it degenerate game play. Ticking, as a strategy, is almost always with a bomber. It involves you, in a bomber, maneuvering into one of several very legitimate recess on the underside of a satellite in Domination. You remain stationary, and deploy your mines/drones immediately on cooldown. This makes you somewhat difficult to target, and if anyone approaches you they eat a faceful of mines and you finish them off with your heavy lasers. I honestly don't know how the term "ticking" came to be associated with this practice other than, like a ticking clock, you deploy your mines as fast as you can.

However, it is a strategy that can be countered. Starfighters which can launch EMP Missiles can target, well, pretty much anything around the sat and cause AoE damage to said bomber also disabling its deployables. Gunships can use Ion Railgun to cause AoE damage to the bomber. Or, they can target the bomber from range and destroy it. Or, lock a proton torpedo from 11.5k away. Stationary targets are very easy to destroy.

Ticking is an effective strategy against newer players, but experienced players can deal with the problem fairly easily. Staying still while under attack is certain death in GSF and that is the ultimate failure of the ticking strategy.

Ok, thanks for the explanation. It wasn’t anything I thought it was and it’s obviously not an exploit or cheat, just an interesting tactic that is situational.

I’ll have a look into piledriving. Seems like it might not work for me with my lag. Also doesn’t seem to be an exploit if BioWare have signed off on the plays as legit.

........

Luc, I feel like I should clear something up about my last post after yours. I wasn’t exactly directing any of that at you or anyone else in the thread. I’m sorry if it may have come across like that because I posted after yours. But my intent was to explain what I’ve seen over the years n ground pvp and what happens on the forums when people bring up cheating. So please accept that I wasn’t attacking your credibility, just pointing out what it can look like to non posters who come here to read.

One thing I did want to bring up from my post you replied to was people’s perception. Sometimes if you get the same arsehat cheaters on at the same time (they are often friends) and you are unfortunate that they like play when you are playing. It can seem like cheaters are prolific and on all the time. Because if you’re unlucky to always have those guys login while you are playing and it’s a low pop situation, it can seem like they are always cheats around you.

I’ve been in that situation in ground pvp because of the times I play. You get stuck in a loop of seeing them because they play at the same time each day and there aren’t many people around so you always see them. When other people never see them and assume you must be making it up or exaggerating.

It’s similar in a way when you get wintraders in ranked pvp. They come and can dominate a whole block of time that ruins your experience. While people who get on later completely miss the wintraders and are oblivious to it. If it wasn’t for the ranked scoreboard on the forums, many of us wouldn’t even know it was going on unless you personally encounter the wintraders.

Perception is everything and so is timing. A few bad eggs can ruin a bunch of peoples fun out side of primetime if there aren’t enough people queuing. And as I said and you agreed, it usually a very small amount of people. So the reality is it isn’t rampant all over the game, but probably isolated to a small amount doing it during less optimal play times.

I’ll have a look into piledriving. Seems like it might not work for me with my lag. Also doesn’t seem to be an exploit if BioWare have signed off on the plays as legit.

I'd feel more comfortable to go with not being an exploit on the basis of what Ramalina said, but exploit or not, don't worry about it. Loads of people piledrive now. Its not a big deal by any metric. The only people who moan about it will be those how don't like getting blown up quickly, and trust me those guys will moan about anything.

Luc, I feel like I should clear something up about my last post after yours. I wasn’t exactly directing any of that at you or anyone else in the thread. I’m sorry if it may have come across like that because I posted after yours. But my intent was to explain what I’ve seen over the years n ground pvp and what happens on the forums when people bring up cheating. So please accept that I wasn’t attacking your credibility, just pointing out what it can look like to non posters who come here to read.

 

One thing I did want to bring up from my post you replied to was people’s perception. Sometimes if you get the same arsehat cheaters on at the same time (they are often friends) and you are unfortunate that they like play when you are playing. It can seem like cheaters are prolific and on all the time. Because if you’re unlucky to always have those guys login while you are playing and it’s a low pop situation, it can seem like they are always cheats around you.

 

I’ve been in that situation in ground pvp because of the times I play. You get stuck in a loop of seeing them because they play at the same time each day and there aren’t many people around so you always see them. When other people never see them and assume you must be making it up or exaggerating.

 

It’s similar in a way when you get wintraders in ranked pvp. They come and can dominate a whole block of time that ruins your experience. While people who get on later completely miss the wintraders and are oblivious to it. If it wasn’t for the ranked scoreboard on the forums, many of us wouldn’t even know it was going on unless you personally encounter the wintraders.

 

Perception is everything and so is timing. A few bad eggs can ruin a bunch of peoples fun out side of primetime if there aren’t enough people queuing. And as I said and you agreed, it usually a very small amount of people. So the reality is it isn’t rampant all over the game, but probably isolated to a small amount doing it during less optimal play times.

Don't worry, I didn't think any of your comment was directed at me. I was talking "with" you not "at" you. Tone is everything so sorry if I gave wrong impression.

I'd feel more comfortable to go with not being an exploit on the basis of what Ramalina said, but exploit or not, don't worry about it. Loads of people piledrive now. Its not a big deal by any metric. The only people who moan about it will be those how don't like getting blown up quickly, and trust me those guys will moan about anything.

Yeah, doesn’t seem to be an exploit, just another undocumented feature that BioWare is intentionally vague on or too lazy to clarify.

Have you a video on how it works so I can see if I can set it up on my mouse keybinds. I’m assuming you need to time your button pushes so you line up the CD. I think my issue is the lag will be too much that my pushes won’t line up with the GCD.

Edit; also, I have my ping meter in the game set to 0.25ms for ground pvp. Does that affect GSF too?

Yeah, doesn’t seem to be an exploit, just another undocumented feature that BioWare is intentionally vague on or too lazy to clarify.

Have you a video on how it works so I can see if I can set it up on my mouse keybinds. I’m assuming you need to time your button pushes so you line up the CD. I think my issue is the lag will be too much that my pushes won’t line up with the GCD.

 

Edit; also, I have my ping meter in the game set to 0.25ms for ground pvp. Does that affect GSF too?

Here is a cool weapon configuration I figured out and have been working on it since the patch came out. It evolved from a once-in-while burst damage to continual burst damage.

 

Heavy Laser Cannons, Quad Laser Cannons, and Weapon Swap Rotation.

 

Below is a short (1 minute) video showing the build and rotation.

 

https://youtu.be/j022_MKlMcg

 

Narrative of the video:

 

Pile Driver is a burst damage build that utilizes quads and heavies in a specific rotation. In patch 5.5 the primary weapon cannons on the type 1 strike fighter can now be fired holding down left and pressing 1 (weapon swap ability) without having to re-click. This allows you to do a continual barrage of primary weapon damage on your target.

 

What I discovered while doing this weapons swap, is that if you time it correctly you can have a heavy shot and a quad shot fire at nearly the exact same time. This lead to figuring out a specific rotation to get the highest amount of burst damage in the least amount of time.

 

Here is the rotation we figured out:

Set your primaries to heavy laser cannon.

Fire one heavy shot and then immediately press 1. When you do a heavy and quad will fire at nearly the exact same time. Once the second quad shot fires, swap your weapons again.

Continue to press 1 off of cooldown and you will get the maximum burst damage.

 

Strike Fighter Ship builds (Starguard/Rycer)

 

DOM

Primary Weapon #1: Heavy Laser Cannon (Armor pen/Shield Piercing)

Primary Weapon #2: Quad Laser Cannon (Reduced cost/Hull damage)

Secondary Weapon: Concussion Missiles (Range/Ignore Armor)

Shield: Quick-Change Shield (10s less Cooldown)

Engine: Retro Thruster (turning)

Capacitor: Damage Capacitor

Magazine: Regeneration Extender

Reactor: Large Reactor

Thruster: Turning Thrusters

Copilot Ability: Salana Rok/Lieutenant Iresso (Wingman)

Crew (Republic)

Offensive: Qyzen Fess (6% Accuracy/2 Degrees arc)

Defensive: Doc (10% Power to Shields/15% Shield Regeneration and Delay Reduction)

Tactical: Lieutenant Iresso (3500m Sensor Focus/2000m Sensor Dampening)

Engineering: Yuun (13% Blaster efficiency/13% Engine efficiency)

Crew (Empire)

Offensive: Jaesa Willsam (6% Accuracy/2 Degrees arc)

Defensive: Writch Hurley (10% Power to Shields/15% Shield Regeneration and Delay Reduction)

Tactical: Salana Rok (5000m Communication/3500m Sensor Focus)

Engineering: 2V-R8 (13% Blaster efficiency/13% Engine efficiency)

 

TDM

Primary Weapon #1: Heavy Laser Cannon (Improved Tracking and Critical Chance/Shield Piercing)

Primary Weapon #2: Quad Laser Cannon (Reduced cost/Hull damage)

Secondary Weapon: Proton Torpedo (Empire - Arc/Range | Republic - Speed/Range)

Shield: Quick-Change Shield (10s less Cooldown)

Engine: Barrel Roll (Turning)

Capacitor: Damage Capacitor

Magazine: Regeneration Extender

Reactor: Large Reactor

Thruster: Speed Thrusters

Copilot Ability: Qyzen Fess/Gault (Concentrated Fire)

Crew (Republic)

Offensive: Qyzen Fess (6% Accuracy/2 Degrees arc)

Defensive: Nadia Grell or Tanno Vik (5% Evasion/10% Shield max)

Tactical: Elara Dorne (3000m Sensor Radius/3500m Sensor Focus)

Engineering: C2-N2 (15% Power to Engines/13% Engine efficiency)

Crew (Empire)

Offensive: Gault (6% Accuracy/12% Reload Cooldown)

Defensive: Vector (5% Evasion/10% Shield max)

Tactical: Scorpio (3000m Sensor Radius/3500m Sensor Focus)

Engineering: Blizz (15% Power to Engines/13% Engine efficiency)

 

Enjoy

-Audson

Post was long, so put part of it in spoiler tags.

no idea if it is still valid, but possibly worth a look

Post was long, so put part of it in spoiler tags.

 

 

no idea if it is still valid, but possibly worth a look

Thanks for the info.

Thanks for the info.

np, anytime

You know what, I had a longer message here. I posted it, and then I deleted it, because the debates will continue. So, let the naysayers win. I won't defend the innocent anymore. You guys believe what you want to believe, and all the newbies who come in can jump on the band wagon of "everyone's a cheater" because that will be the predominant belief they will encounter on this forum. Well done. Very well done.

For the record, I don't even disagree with you. It needs to be fixed but I don't personally think it's cheating, if only because it doesn't increase one's chances of winning a game. That is a point on which we agree.

I was just commenting on the fact that there's been a lot of him taking shots at you in a few threads now and if I'm noticing it, someone else will be too.

For what it's worth I'm glad you're trying to help people out here. Game needs more of it.