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Most of players despise new changes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Most of players despise new changes

TheLordMagnus's Avatar


TheLordMagnus
05.21.2022 , 10:31 PM | #61
most players is well
funny its the same 6 to 8 people in here that are the only ones partaking in this convo as im sure SWTOR has more then 12 players
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TheLordMagnus's Avatar


TheLordMagnus
05.21.2022 , 10:35 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by gregordunbar View Post
They never do. The population can drop by another 75% and they will still blindly defend right up until Bioware announces the game is shutting down and then...then they will cry so hard for as long as they can post on the forums about how its the company screwing them over for no reason (IE: head still in the sand over why).

Facts dont lie
https://steamcharts.com/app/1286830
The game is hemorrhaging players. Its the only metric needed for 7.0 being a disaster and how most players do not like the changes. People can click on the lick above next week and the week after and watch the numbers drop even more. There is no sign that the exodus is going to stop because the lower playerbase will eventually start to effect even those that have TOLERATED the changes, and their ability to group, which will make their experiences worse and make them quit.

The downward spiral to the end of this game has started and the developers are clearly not going to address it, so this game perhaps has 1 to 1 1/2 years of life left in it before EA decides to either shut it down or remove 100% of development and let it ride itself out until it can make no more money as it is.
people have left because there is no content outside of the NM ops

there is a lot wrong with 7.0
missing crafting features and the new day... weekly zone witch are tied
the new rep zone also tied to above
how short the story was

ui changes and combat changes are not the main cause and if you think that im sorry but there is nothing more to say.
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ZUHFB's Avatar


ZUHFB
05.21.2022 , 11:23 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by TheLordMagnus View Post
people have left because there is no content outside of the NM ops

there is a lot wrong with 7.0
missing crafting features and the new day... weekly zone witch are tied
the new rep zone also tied to above
how short the story was

ui changes and combat changes are not the main cause and if you think that im sorry but there is nothing more to say.
I agree, but I don't see the difference to 6.X, there was a long content drought after Onslaught, why didn't people quit back then? There was never any content besides from NM ops and ranked, in all other gamemodes you lose your progress and with each expansion your old gear gets trashed, but that is the way it is. If you can't walk towards a goal you will stop moving and realize it's all for nothing. That happened because renown was removed, no renown is the reason people quit but they themselves don't realize that and think it's class changes.

Class changes were needed, all classes felt the same - ling and arsenal was literally the same spec. Now... balance changes were not very balanced, but the idea itself is great.
professional combat rez farmer

divinecynic's Avatar


divinecynic
05.22.2022 , 01:08 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by gregordunbar View Post
They never do. The population can drop by another 75% and they will still blindly defend right up until Bioware announces the game is shutting down and then...then they will cry so hard for as long as they can post on the forums about how its the company screwing them over for no reason (IE: head still in the sand over why).

Facts dont lie
https://steamcharts.com/app/1286830
The game is hemorrhaging players. Its the only metric needed for 7.0 being a disaster and how most players do not like the changes. People can click on the lick above next week and the week after and watch the numbers drop even more. There is no sign that the exodus is going to stop because the lower playerbase will eventually start to effect even those that have TOLERATED the changes, and their ability to group, which will make their experiences worse and make them quit.

The downward spiral to the end of this game has started and the developers are clearly not going to address it, so this game perhaps has 1 to 1 1/2 years of life left in it before EA decides to either shut it down or remove 100% of development and let it ride itself out until it can make no more money as it is.
Another factor in this is (as reported in Kotaku) EA is looking to sell or merge. The article also mentions that EA has laid off 200 customer service staff. EA has not only lost it's exclusive deal for Star Wars but FIFA now as well.

Edit: Bioware has never been top priority for EA. So if EA is in trouble, you can imagine how things are looking for Bioware.

Master_Morak's Avatar


Master_Morak
05.22.2022 , 03:29 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by ZUHFB View Post
I agree, but I don't see the difference to 6.X, there was a long content drought after Onslaught, why didn't people quit back then? There was never any content besides from NM ops and ranked, in all other gamemodes you lose your progress and with each expansion your old gear gets trashed, but that is the way it is. If you can't walk towards a goal you will stop moving and realize it's all for nothing. That happened because renown was removed, no renown is the reason people quit but they themselves don't realize that and think it's class changes.

Class changes were needed, all classes felt the same - ling and arsenal was literally the same spec. Now... balance changes were not very balanced, but the idea itself is great.
I agree, removing renown took away a great part of my motivation, even I didn't get a Character to level 999.
The other great demotivation comes from the gear changes with 7.0 and the removal of the amlifier.

There is no more hope for this game, because a new OP didn´'t bring back the motivation for playing for the mayority of players and it also is nothing to attract new players.

The only thing that would help (but which would never happen) where a great new story arc with an back story that last over a longer time (like the Revan / empororer story arc) and with a good marketing campaign advertising this story.
Möge die Macht mit Euch sein

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
05.22.2022 , 08:15 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by Master_Morak View Post
I agree, removing renown took away a great part of my motivation, even I didn't get a Character to level 999.
The other great demotivation comes from the gear changes with 7.0 and the removal of the amlifier.

There is no more hope for this game, because a new OP didn´'t bring back the motivation for playing for the mayority of players and it also is nothing to attract new players.

The only thing that would help (but which would never happen) where a great new story arc with an back story that last over a longer time (like the Revan / empororer story arc) and with a good marketing campaign advertising this story.
This would be a part of the matter. Some other things to consider (perhaps even equally) :
** Multiple story viewpoints. By that I mean: it's unlikely that a Sith would see or tell the story in the same fashion that a Jedi or perhaps even a smuggler would ( and visa versa). While I personally don't ever expect to see all 8 story lines ever again .. there really should be some variants (even with those character/roles being from the alliance commander).
** Gearing needs to be closer to 6.(??) (separate discussion in another thread some day).
** Restoring companion interactions. Currently they are all but dead (and now act more like glorified battle pets).
** A "Deeper" story (pretty much as Morak has mentioned) that lasts MUCH longer per "episode" (should not be referred to as an expansion). IMO what we see now is simply another "CHAPTER" in the current story line. There is NOTHING wrong with this. But call it that ... The release of Onslaught chapter 7 (for example). If that's what it is .. then that's what it is! I can live with the truth!

These are just a few more examples of some of what (to me) would at least help move things in the right direction.
(and again ... just my $.02 )
I sense a disturbance in the force ....
What was ... is no longer
Change is inevitable. To see its future clearly we MUST look at our past with wisdom and understanding

Savej's Avatar


Savej
05.22.2022 , 11:27 AM | #67
I haven't quit yet. Except for a couple months here and there I've been subbed since launch. But I don't feel like I have a reason to play lately. I'm not progressing in anything, even stupid things, conquests seem more pointless than ever and PVP still has pretty much all of the same problems it did last year with a few others thrown in for good measure. Balance is marginally better but that doesn't matter in wzs when half my team is completely unskilled and half of the enemy team is a farming premade and every queue results in the same teams playing over and over.

I haven't logged in for the last couple weeks at least and my play time in this game has nosedived vs last year or, I suspect, any year since launch. If swtor loses everyone like me it loses a big chunk of the revenue it's needed to survive this long.

divinecynic's Avatar


divinecynic
05.22.2022 , 06:57 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by ZUHFB View Post
I agree, but I don't see the difference to 6.X, there was a long content drought after Onslaught, why didn't people quit back then? There was never any content besides from NM ops and ranked, in all other gamemodes you lose your progress and with each expansion your old gear gets trashed, but that is the way it is. If you can't walk towards a goal you will stop moving and realize it's all for nothing. That happened because renown was removed, no renown is the reason people quit but they themselves don't realize that and think it's class changes.

Class changes were needed, all classes felt the same - ling and arsenal was literally the same spec. Now... balance changes were not very balanced, but the idea itself is great.
A couple of things are going on here. Obviously there are issues like the UI, but a big difference is that Onslaught had plenty of content and Legacy has jack. Swtor player will keep playing an expansion if there is stuff to do while they wait on the next expansion. Legacy of the Sith had to deliver content and didn't.

Another big factor is the changes to gear. See in 6.0 you could play your way to get gear. On top of that with the variety of tacticals and set bonuses, there was good reason to want multiple gear sets for each mirror class (ie merc/commando) you had. Anyone could get an optimized BiS set with the best amplifiers and augments. It just took time and credits mainly.

Most Swtor players are not progression raiders and never will be. So firstly, they reduced the number of gears sets you actually need or even want for the game. Having a second class and how set bonuses work means you need at most 3 sets: a tank, dps, and a healer set. This is further compounded by getting rid of useful general sets. I know I went from have like 17 endgame sets to having 2 now. All my force users are sin tanks and all my tech characters are scoundrel dps (I don't heal). Combat style doesn't equal story anymore. So I have no incentive to run more styles. Why bother? Let's add in that all my characters have stealth now.

Toss in the fact I can do 90% of the content in the game in green 320 gear. You know the set you get after running Legacy like once. Toss in token caps and the rest and the current gearing system gives reason to not bother playing. Story Ops gear drops are a joke and unless you are progression raiding you do not need the gear from progression raiding. Even if you want to bother with Op gear, look at the state of it. Everyone is grinding one or two bosses. It's really fast.

People kept complaining that 6.0 gave gear too easy. 7.0 gives you all the gear you will ever need to do most of the game after you run Legacy once. That takes what 20 minute with a stealther?

Legacy made gear meaningless practically. Legacy has no grind worth bothering with. At least Onslaught has a rep grind. Onslaught had 2 decent planets. Bioware set this up to push people to do Ops and didn't even release an Op.

Edit: One other piece of the puzzle is that Bioware worked to make big legacies with lots of alts less rewarding with the token caps. They also made Conquest less rewarding. Every way you look Bioware pruned reasons to play. It's changes encouraged people to play less. The less people play the less they care. The more likely they are to leave.

TheLordMagnus's Avatar


TheLordMagnus
05.23.2022 , 02:04 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by divinecynic View Post
Another factor in this is (as reported in Kotaku) EA is looking to sell or merge. The article also mentions that EA has laid off 200 customer service staff. EA has not only lost it's exclusive deal for Star Wars but FIFA now as well.

Edit: Bioware has never been top priority for EA. So if EA is in trouble, you can imagine how things are looking for Bioware.
EA didn't lose the fifa licence they just simply didn't want to pay what FIFA asked for that licence which was something like 500 mill per year for the next 4 years and EA simply said that it wasn't worth it and they would simply rename the game because thats all they were paying for

they have a separate agreement with the players association that allows them to still use their names and identities without having to pay FIFA

and to the last point DISNEY was never going to let EA have exclusive rights to their big ip as that would just lose them money and disney is about MONEY
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divinecynic's Avatar


divinecynic
05.23.2022 , 05:03 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by TheLordMagnus View Post
EA didn't lose the fifa licence they just simply didn't want to pay what FIFA asked for that licence which was something like 500 mill per year for the next 4 years and EA simply said that it wasn't worth it and they would simply rename the game because thats all they were paying for

they have a separate agreement with the players association that allows them to still use their names and identities without having to pay FIFA

and to the last point DISNEY was never going to let EA have exclusive rights to their big ip as that would just lose them money and disney is about MONEY
Well Disney giving other publishers a go also certainly has something to do with EA's performance. If EA could have delivered consistent hits, who knows?

I honestly hadn't looked in the details of the FIFA deal, but I don't think it is a secret that EA is not doing so great these days. We have known Bioware has been in trouble since Anthem. There has also been all the legal issues and bad publicity over loot boxes. EA's stock price took a nose dive last November and really hasn't fully recovered. It's current valuation is way down across many metrics. I could go on.

Legacy of the Sith has just been another mess in a long line of messes.

So the idea that the EA wants to sell or merge is just another sign the company is not in the best place. I seriously doubt Bioware is going to get the resources it needs to straighten things out. Especially with EA doing layoffs. I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong.