The reason I place the emphasis on the protorp is that while most of us can generally agree that Remote Slicing needs an adjustment, not a lot has been said on what to change (I still haven't finished Despon's analysis).

 

Are we wanting it gutted into uselessness?

 

Should it still be able to guarantee a protorp hit if activated in 5k range before releasing said protorp?

 

Is it just the engine power drain aspect (even more so when combined with lockdown) the biggest issue?

 

Is it the 5k range instant hit and if the energy drain is kept is it still within reason if it gets the 3.5k treatment?

 

Personally I don't want to see it gutted to uselessness, I just don't like how its as debilitating as sabo probes but without the lock on warning or the difficulty of getting the lock on target.

 

But is it even possible to debuff in a way that still allows for counterplay beyond keeping distance or swarming with overwhelming numbers while still being worthwhile to take?

Having just used Slicing+Protorp in a deathmatch... I can see why people find it incredibly unpleasant. It was basically, "Hi, I have a missile lock, you're dead because you can't use the DCD intended for this very purpose"

 

As for what it should be like... I think it would be thematically appropriate for it to do things like:

• Make it harder for the target to lock missiles instead of making it harder for them to break missile locks
  
• Mess with the target's sensors (disable communications and possibly reduce sensor range) rather than engines and shields
  
• Possibly convert mines/drones from foe to friend if it needs to be stronger than that

 

I feel like the first two things would make it more of a support ability rather than a third weapon.

Guys, can we please keep on topic about what to do with Remote Slicing, rather than reminiscing about old meta vs new meta. Which, sorry Roland, but every conversation about anything in GSF you quickly turn into how much you resent the current meta compared to the old one. Please refrain, keep it on topic. Devs are actually watching this thread and all this fluff talk about how it was in old times and correcting slicing by altering the entire meta instead is just going to discourage them from reading it / doing anything. Yeah, fine, it's not 100% cast iron that they are going to take action, but in 3 years since 5.5 there has been plenty of argument and controversy about slicing, yet no one actually tried to get the devs attention on it. We now have actually achieved that much, so please don't throw this golden opportunity away by continually ranting about how much you prefer the old meta to new meta. And keep the conversation about (simple) ways to fix Remote Slicing. Edited January 28, 2021 by Ttoilleekul

Guys, can we please keep on topic about what to do with Remote Slicing, rather than reminiscing about old meta vs new meta. Which, sorry Roland, but every conversation about anything in GSF you quickly turn into how much you resent the current meta compared to the old one. Please refrain, keep it on topic. Devs are actually watching this thread and all this fluff talk about how it was in old times and correcting slicing by altering the entire meta instead is just going to discourage them from reading it / doing anything. Yeah, fine, it's not 100% cast iron that they are going to take action, but in 3 years since 5.5 there has been plenty of argument and controversy about slicing, yet no one actually tried to get the devs attention on it. We now have actually achieved that much, so please don't throw this golden opportunity away by continually ranting about how much you prefer the old meta to new meta. And keep the conversation about (simple) ways to fix Remote Slicing.

 

The reason I place the emphasis on the protorp is that while most of us can generally agree that Remote Slicing needs an adjustment, not a lot has been said on what to change (I still haven't finished Despon's analysis).

 

Are we wanting it gutted into uselessness?

 

Should it still be able to guarantee a protorp hit if activated in 5k range before releasing said protorp?

 

Is it just the engine power drain aspect (even more so when combined with lockdown) the biggest issue?

 

Is it the 5k range instant hit and if the energy drain is kept is it still within reason if it gets the 3.5k treatment?

 

Personally I don't want to see it gutted to uselessness, I just don't like how its as debilitating as sabo probes but without the lock on warning or the difficulty of getting the lock on target.

 

But is it even possible to debuff in a way that still allows for counterplay beyond keeping distance or swarming with overwhelming numbers while still being worthwhile to take?

 

AND THAT is why I don't think you get the connection. I explain back story to LITERALLY ADDRESS THE TOPIC DIRECTLY and oh no Roland's reminiscing about the old days again is all you see.

 

The protorp is literally what makes Remote Slicing in it's current state so deadly. It doesn't have to be a protorp from the slicer itself either. It does make you more vulnerable to a rail shot, but I know I can't recall a time where I died to remote slicing when a protorp wasn't involved...

 

If you're not adjusting the protorp then WHAT DO YOU CHANGE on REMOTE SLICING? The protorp sets up the dynamic, I'm not expecting it to "change" but what are you expecting to get adjusted/removed in RS?

 

It's easy to agree on something needing a nerf, but there's very little input on what should actually be adjusted. RS exists in its current state because of a lack of said input as a handful of voices ended up representing a whole community.

 

But seriously, you already have a thread that's specific to the petition and then when the "merits" are discussed you think its off-topic.... Remember in GSF things are often intertwined and interactions affect others aspects, kinda like how performance dictates meta and meta dictates playstyles....

 

Remember in GSF things are often intertwined and interactions affect others aspects, kinda like how performance dictates meta and meta dictates playstyles....

 

 

Flux play style "Wild and untamed"

 

Flux with slicing in the mix "Why is Flux ticking as a strike?"

Looking at the three main lockout components: EMP, EMP missile, and Remote slicing.

 

Purpose: EMP field and EMP missile are bomber ball counters. Sort of important ones. They're also on ships where in most cases the EMP build is acting in a fairly hard support role, and teammates have to help out with the killing. Without help, the EMP ship is likely to be a bit slow or clunky in getting the kill on it's own. The t2 strike is a bit of an exception, but after you've landed an EMP missile you're not exactly in the greatest position to start a proton lock.

 

Remote slicing on the other hand, is a cripple used by a hunter to ensure a subsequent torpedo kill. In theory you can use it in a support role, but EMP missile is way better as a multi-target AOE in that role. It's very much an, "I am out to get YOU (specifically and personally)," sort of deal in terms of design. It's really a package deal with torpedoes. If RS were nothing but the engine disable, it would still be worth taking, even at the full 5 tier cost. It goes that far toward guaranteeing a torpedo kill. If it didn't disable the engines, I think it would hardly be worth taking, even if you're also running Lockdown as a crew skill.

 

It's annoying in the classic WoW rogue stun-lock, sort of way, but there are two things that I think sort of push it a bit over the edge in terms of being tolerated. One is that it makes you vulnerable not just to the t3 strike's torpedoes, but to EVERYONE's torpedoes, in a space where torpedoes are now very popular. The other is that the cooldown is actually way shorter than I though it was. I was thinking it started at over a minute and got cut down to something like 50 seconds, but it starts short and gets shorter. In a worst case scenario, a target can be kept locked down for 40% of the game. That's WAY too much. Increasing the base cooldown to 90 seconds, and upgraded cooldown to something in the range of 50 to 70 seconds would be a good first step in the right direction. In terms of uptime, nerfing the duration increase from 3 seconds down to 2, or even 1, might also help.

 

As a single target sort of component, I also think that nerfing the global AOE would be a great change. I like the idea of a lock-on if that could be implemented. Though a long press of a system button might be a bit clunky interface wise. Even cutting it down from a sphere to a cone, say similar arc size to torpedoes, since that's really what it pairs with, would be progress of a sort. Thematically we'd need the transmitters to be pointing at the target anyway, right?

 

Chaining cooldowns for a kill is a very traditional MMORPG PVP mechanic. I think that chaining RS and a torpedo for a probable kill isn't a fundamental problem. The degree to which it is easily spammable is a problem. Given the mechanics of the component, I think a mild increase in skill required would be good, if it can be implemented, but that the real core issue is the uptime needs a fairly hard nerf. I feel like 10s up on a 65 or 70 second cooldown would be a good place to start for a mastered RS. Probably starting from a 9s up on a 90 second cooldown as base.

 

With such a hard disable coming from a very tanky ship, giving opponents 2 to 3 cooldown cycles to fight back per Remote Slicing cycle seems about right to me.

 

As far as the engine drain goes, eh whatever. It does make the base component pretty strong in terms of annoyance, perhaps a bit OP annoying. Split some of it into higher tier upgrades? Nerf it? Change it into something else? If you wanted to be really evil instead of having it drain engine pool just have it trigger boost for 3 seconds or until out of fuel whichever comes first:eek:? Eh, that might be leaning into the trolling nature of the component a bit too hard, though if you could do that just the first week of April every year . . .

AND THAT is why I don't think you get the connection. I explain back story to LITERALLY ADDRESS THE TOPIC DIRECTLY and oh no Roland's reminiscing about the old days again is all you see.

 

The protorp is literally what makes Remote Slicing in it's current state so deadly. It doesn't have to be a protorp from the slicer itself either. It does make you more vulnerable to a rail shot, but I know I can't recall a time where I died to remote slicing when a protorp wasn't involved...

 

If you're not adjusting the protorp then WHAT DO YOU CHANGE on REMOTE SLICING? The protorp sets up the dynamic, I'm not expecting it to "change" but what are you expecting to get adjusted/removed in RS?

 

It's easy to agree on something needing a nerf, but there's very little input on what should actually be adjusted. RS exists in its current state because of a lack of said input as a handful of voices ended up representing a whole community.

 

But seriously, you already have a thread that's specific to the petition and then when the "merits" are discussed you think its off-topic.... Remember in GSF things are often intertwined and interactions affect others aspects, kinda like how performance dictates meta and meta dictates playstyles....

 

Dude, please stop insulting my intellect. I get it, ok? We are not talking about rocket science here. There is a strong connection between the power that Slicing has and the damage that a Protorp has. You don't need a degree in engineering to figure that one out. Stop assuming that my disagreeing with what you think should be done about this, constitutes a lack of comprehension in understanding your arguments (and for the record yes, you do turn every discussion into a nostalgia about old meta conversation). Solving remote slicing without changing protorps as well? Easy. Play with the cooldowns, range, duration of the ability, and reduce the engine drain. You just make it so that the pilot has to work for his kill. Like say the T2F currently is. It has Protorps equipped, it even has EMP missiles equipped, but do we worry about how easily and quickly someone will shut you down and obliterate you if they come at you in a T2F? No, because even though it still has Protorps, the pilot still has to work for it.

Self-quoting because it all seems to be coming back to this:

Make it harder for the target to lock missiles instead of making it harder for them to break missile locks

General Problem: Slicing + Protorp combo

General Solution: Make slicing counter protorps instead of comboing with them

Specific, Simple Solution: Instead of locking out the target's engine ability, have slicing lock out the target's ability to lock missiles on anyone, or increase the target's lock-on time by a large number.

Nerf of slicing:

 

Take away the engine drain, the missile break lock out is enough, haha

And increase the cooldown of slicing by 15 seconds, make it every minute. or even 2 minutes.

 

Increasing the cool down time is only because its a push button, no aiming, no lock on time. It just gets applied.

 

If there were some sort of skill associate with it it would be fine.

 

But as is, even a Caveman can do it.

 

The protorp was rarely used because it was too hard to lock and even if you managed it, the lack of locking projectiles in heavy use meant the target likely would have a missile break ready.

 

A a frequent locker of proton torpedoes in the old days, I have to say that locking wasn't the primary problem. Locking say 20 or 30 protons per game was quite doable. The problem was that out of 30 locks you'd be lucky to get 1 hit because there were too many missile breaks cycling so much faster than the cooldown cycles of any missile other than clusters. This was also why the engine disable on RS was not worth as much as it is now. Locking out the engine missile break didn't do much good, because the target would just use the break on their shield instead, or in rare cases in un-serious builds their system ability.

 

Changing missile vs break cooldown cycles so that missiles have a realistic chance of hitting is what makes the RS cooldown potent now. RS in the old days could not lock out enough breaks to get a missile to land. There would still be breaks available to the target, unless they had just used a break. Now, RS usually locks out all of a target's breaks and effectively guarantees a missile hit. If that hit is from a proton torp, thermite torp, or on a ship with low shields a concussion missile, then it's likely to be a fatal hit.

 

I think that part of what happened is that RS was changed based on "what would it take to make this good in the Pre-5.5 meta," and the basic answer was, "make it spammable so strikes can land a missile once in a while." Then the general balance of missile vs missile break cooldown cycle availability was changed to make missiles a viable secondary weapon, but due to running out of development time, the RS changes that went live were designed to eat enough breaks to make a torp landable in the old meta. Which is overkill in the new meta.

 

Another thought on the broad meta changes with respect to 5.5 and RS. Prior to 5.5 the shield lockout was much more valuable than it currently is. Armor penetration is now just about everywhere, and with an assortment of anti-bomber measures getting buffed, it's no longer a matter of insufficient game mechanics if there's a beacon bomber on a sat that just won't die. It's just lack of player skill. Pre-5.5 getting usable armor penetration in heavily mined close quarters was a big issue, and RS tier 5 was more of an interesting choice. A T3 with Thermite and RS looked pretty appealing as a means of dealing with entrenched Charged Plating bombers, but that's rarely an issue anymore. In addition, a shield lock out was a closer equivalent to an engine lockout, because normally every ship that wasn't a bomber could be expected to have Distortion as a missile break in a serious game. So no matter which option you took you'd still be taking a missile break from the target most of the time.

 

I think the reduction in the utility of the shield lockout complicates dealing with RS. Now it's a spammy, "make target a sitting duck for missiles," button, but doesn't really do anything else interesting. It used to have a competing anti-bomber support function, but that's sort of a vestigial feature now. The engine lockout is very strong on the current cooldown, the engine drain is competitive with Ion Railgun, but the rest of the upgrade slots are pretty much empty fluff. It would be nice if the power were spread out more evenly in the upgrade tree, and in a way that offered more interesting choices. A full re-engineering of the ability would be better than just nerfing the snot out of the cooldown, but it would be a lot more work and open new opportunities for things to go wrong. How ambitious are you feeling devs?

 

Right now the protorp is practically essential on any strike because of the meta. Clusters lock very quick but barely can penetrate shields so there's little direct hull damage. There's nothing to justify choosing concussion over protorp. Same goes for Ion. Thermite has potential but why bother if you can do direct damage that bypasses shields? One of the best things about emp missile is that it too bypasses shields.

 

I generally run concussion on T1 strikes, and find that I get more kills than if I run proton. Wider arc, higher rate of fire, better mesh in range with blasters, and the slow can be useful. Proton is safer and lower effort, but having all weapons operating at ideal range at the same time (assuming I remember to pile-drive) seems to produce better for me.

Self-quoting because it all seems to be coming back to this:

 

General Problem: Slicing + Protorp combo

General Solution: Make slicing counter protorps instead of comboing with them

Specific, Simple Solution: Instead of locking out the target's engine ability, have slicing lock out the target's ability to lock missiles on anyone, or increase the target's lock-on time by a large number.

 

Ok, i really like that! Very clever!

I just had a string of so many TDMs that it basically drove me insane. By which I mean that a Bloodmark with RFLs and stock Thermite Torpedoes seemed like a good idea because I was that bored of TDM.

 

In the quest for even less optimal builds I noticed something that I had forgotten: stock Combat Command counters tier 5 upgrade Ion Railgun debuffs. In an AOE no less.

 

Would making Tier 5 Combat Command cancel engine/shield lockouts make any sense? (EMP field/ Emp Missile/ Remote slicing)

 

Would making Tier 5 Combat Command cancel engine/shield lockouts make any sense? (EMP field/ Emp Missile/ Remote slicing)

 

Short answer is no because it may be a team game, but it's one where people mostly come in solo. A solo Remote Slicing T3 strike makes sense, but a counter-debuff build doesn't make sense solo.

Great discussion in here! I wanted to jump in and let y'all know we're going to take a look at Remote Slicing for an upcoming update.

 

Thanks!

-Chris

 

how about rebalancing/buffing all the ships that dont get used much instead of picking on one ability that hardly makes a diff.

 

Ion rail gun and the T1F are fkin retarded. Look at those first.

 

PS Buff Bombers

Edited March 21, 2021 by Oobidoo

Great discussion in here! I wanted to jump in and let y'all know we're going to take a look at Remote Slicing for an upcoming update.

 

Thanks!

-Chris

 

2 months later not a word... This is the Swtor I remember.

2 months later not a word... This is the Swtor I remember.

 

i mean strike changes took them over two years to implement after they said they wanted feedback so yeah it will be a while

 

Edit as of 2021/04/26: I stand corrected and I couldn't be happier about it.

Edited April 26, 2021 by DakhathKilrathi

Sorry guys but the nerf is just not enough. In my petition I stated the requirement here was to stop someone deciding to ruin your day by completely disabling your ship. The goal, had to be to give the person being sliced a fighting chance. But with your systems, missile break and engine power drained, you cannot DO anything. There is no fighting chance because your buttons are all gone. Now, you all know my skill levels, I make no claim on being the best here, but I'm not a slouch either. Today I had one of those matches, where because I am a well known threat, a competent slicer makes it his goal to completely shut me down. It gets to the point where you cannot engage anyone else, you have to keep your eye on him all the time, because you know what is coming. Sure, I was on a bad team, but I've been on thousands of bad teams (no exaggeration) and I can pull something out of the bag, or at least walk away with a positive KDR, against any other kind of focus. But not against this. The person in question is using Lockdown Co-pilot, which when combined with slicing is a 70 point engine drain. This is what the nerf was meant to stop, and in practical terms, it has done next to nothing. He would not have killed me less or more times if it had never been nerfed. Can we do a proper nerf on it now? Please? Because my motivation to keep playing this game is dwindling more and more when my name makes people want to disable my ship by pressing 1 and 3 because they know if they don't disable my ship I am a threat. That is not fun. This game needs to keep its skilled pilots, and I am getting closer and closer to being another person who quits because of slicing.

 

vidoe of said match - https://youtu.be/uIVcSrJbcTU

Do you need Remote Slicing nerfed, or do you need Lockdown and Damage Overcharge nerfed? Hard to tell from that video.

 

Aside from the CD increase that I think it needs, I can see a case there for an additional nerf to the engine drain, but I have mixed feelings about it.

 

Is a combo with a niche crew skill worth nerfing over? What is RS used for before the T5 upgrades if the drain goes away completely or becomes insignificant (and does that even matter given how easy it is to get requisition)? What about people who like using it for the drain? Is it really that much worse than the Ion Railgun?

 

It still feels a bit too strong to me in terms of rate of use, but I'm less sure on strength of effect. It's ballpark similar to other control components, giving up multi-target effects for not needing to hit its target. To my use case the drain is really just a placeholder, and I could care less if it disappeared. Not sure if people using it primarily for the drain would agree with that though. I sort of feel the same way about the system disable.

 

If you had to choose between the system disable and the drain, which would you choose? As an attacker using RS or as a defender hit by RS.

 

Personally I think maybe the drain is stronger than the system disable overall. I guess I'd also say that in terms of overall balance that the T5 options are strong enough that I'd be o.k. with losing the engine drain completely. Maybe even the system disable too. Not sure what I'd replace them with though. What would you think about copying over a weaker version of the Railgun regen debuff? Say 30% reduced engine regen or something like that replacing both the drain and the system disable?

I suspect it is a good nerf and adequate. You have now shifted the goalposts to something about no one being able to harass you with a full CC ship, and now lockdown has entered the conversation. Lockdown + slicing was absolutely brutal before, now you have 30 points of engine you didn't before. This nerf punished lockdown+slicing and slicer's loop+slicing, as it should have. But now you are coming up with builds that still offer CC and complaining that those exist too.

 

At the end of the day, CC is good for this game, and this was a good nerf. If someone decides to take everything that they can and turn it into CC, that CC should be effective and frustrating to play against.

I suspect it is a good nerf and adequate. You have now shifted the goalposts to something about no one being able to harass you with a full CC ship, and now lockdown has entered the conversation. Lockdown + slicing was absolutely brutal before, now you have 30 points of engine you didn't before. This nerf punished lockdown+slicing and slicer's loop+slicing, as it should have. But now you are coming up with builds that still offer CC and complaining that those exist too.

 

At the end of the day, CC is good for this game, and this was a good nerf. If someone decides to take everything that they can and turn it into CC, that CC should be effective and frustrating to play against.

 

Check my original comments on the petition, and in here. Lockdown combining with Slicing was always part of the discussion. This is why I advocated for the engine drain being removed altogether; because with any amount of engine drain removed more people would start using Lockdown to compensate. I have not shifted the goal posts at all. The goal, again stated in the petition at the start, was that someone should not be able to press 1 and 3 and completely disable your ship. I fundamentally disagree with the concept of a hard CC in GSF, it does not work in the same manner as stuns in the ground game. Its far more devastating and you do not have a stun break in GSF. So no, I do not believe that CC is good for this game at all. The consensus of the comments in this thread and the success of the petition pretty much show that most regulars agree with me. At least those who cared enough one way or the other to try to influence the outcome.

 

Had said player in that video used any other ship to try to focus me, I could've handled it a lot better. And in that respect, to answer Ramalina's comments, yes I feel it is worse than Ion rail gun. Its easy to stand there and say CC is good for this game, but no one who ever queued solo, landed on a bad team, and got hard focused by a slicer because of their name, ever walked away from that match and said "I'm so glad we have an unbreakable CC ability in this game." The only people who like it, are people who like to use it. Period. I know Drakolich advocated several times when he coached me that you need a CC ability for newer players to feel they are contributing. I have arrived at a point where I completely disagree with that. We already have Protons, Gunships, and bombers for that.The game should force you to learn skill if you want to take down an Ace, not rely on a totally skill-less CC ability.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Ttoilleekul

So I have a request: If you're a good pilot, have Remote Slicing mastered, are flying on Star Forge over the next three days probably between 7 and 10 pm Eastern Daylight Savings Time, and see any of the following names in a match,

please do your best to slice the snot out of them:

 

Ramalina

Cladonia

Zhe Lian

Zhe Luong

Invixia

Hinaria

Malarania

Tonoko

Zhou Shen

Liang Hua

Rama-Imp

 

Sorting out how much of the example in the video was RS, Lockdown, Damage Overcharge, incautious flying, and A.Z. just being a better pilot on a better team is hard to do. I need to be on the receiving end to really get a handle on how it feels after the nerf in different ships and builds.

 

Lockdown + slicing was absolutely brutal before, now you have 30 points of engine you didn't before.

 

That's a very conditional statement. You'd need to have 100 points or more in your engine pool when hit with both abilities to have 30 more points. You need at least 71 points in the tank to have ANY more engine points, and depending on Thruster choice it looked like Ttoilleekul was usually at 50-60 or less when hit. So overall it's still a very brutal drain if chained with Lockdown. Sort of like flying a Starguard against a Ion-using gunship nest in the old days, in theory you might have some engine power, in practice not so much unless you practice a lot, and build your flying style around countering the drain.

 

On the other hand, the Imperium pilot was very good. They were scooping up all the DO's the instant they appeared, getting point blank guns kills as Ttoilleekul was maneuvering around cover, and generally looking like an old school battlescout pilot. It didn't even look like the Imperium was running EMP missile with engine lockout, which is really what the maximum trolling build would look like to me.

 

I'm also not sure I feel like Lockdown is really the best possible crew ability for a Remote Slicing build. Without Repair Probes or Hydrospanner the T3F becomes a lot easier to kill. I was also tinkering a bit with a Proton-Slicing build running Bypass, and the shield piercing helped guns finish off targets very fast. It felt like the best burst damage build of the variations I tried.

The consensus of the comments in this thread and the success of the petition pretty much show that most regulars agree with me.

 

I'm here disagreeing with you. "Regulars"? I've played this game way more than you ever will, does that count?

You don't have a consensus. You have you, complaining about being sliced. Maybe some other whiners who don't like CC.

 

Prior to the nerf, there really was a consensus about slicing, and I know that because no one I talked to didn't want slicing nerfed (including me). Now, we have a good nerf. Slicing was counterable before, but it required too much squirreliness- you had to maintain nearly a full tank at all times. With 30 less engine drain, slicing is much easier to deal with.

 

Anyway, get crowd controlled and blow up mad. Or learn to play around it, which is basically what you had to do before, except a lot less of it.

I'm here disagreeing with you. "Regulars"? I've played this game way more than you ever will, does that count?

You don't have a consensus. You have you, complaining about being sliced. Maybe some other whiners who don't like CC.

 

Prior to the nerf, there really was a consensus about slicing, and I know that because no one I talked to didn't want slicing nerfed (including me). Now, we have a good nerf. Slicing was counterable before, but it required too much squirreliness- you had to maintain nearly a full tank at all times. With 30 less engine drain, slicing is much easier to deal with.

 

Anyway, get crowd controlled and blow up mad. Or learn to play around it, which is basically what you had to do before, except a lot less of it.

 

Have you played GSF a lot more than me? Let's see. I have been at it 2.5 years since 5.10 dropped. Sure, you've been at it since day one? So you have probably almost triple my time in years. But in that time I have played 11.5k games. How many games have you played? The vast majority of my games were solo. How many of yours were solo? Your perspective is skewed because you flew almost exclusively in one of the best premades there ever was for how many years?, and you're adversely opposed to flying solo. I'd wager my solo experience trumps yours at this point. So, at this point, my input is worth every bit as much as yours. At some point Verain you have to accept that one time newbie you didn't like has risen to match your level and experience.

 

Also your first two sentences don't mesh. You can't on the one hand say that I didn't have consensus, but then on the other hand say that prior to 6.3 there was consensus on a nerf needing to happen.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Ttoilleekul

Sorting out how much of the example in the video was RS, Lockdown, Damage Overcharge, incautious flying, and A.Z. just being a better pilot on a better team is hard to do. I need to be on the receiving end to really get a handle on how it feels after the nerf in different ships and builds.

 

So now that a bit more time has passed I can bring more to the table on this one. I still get sliced. People still switch to slicing because they are angry with me. I am Luc Nodaro after all. I one-shot people with DO slugs, I blast them with 2 BLC crits from <1000m, and I piledrive them. These things will always get people angry enough to slice me. That is never going to change. The point I am making is I don't feel like I am being sliced any less than I was pre 6.3.

 

In a general sense slicing is easier to deal with. The vast majority of those slicers coming after me have always been bad players. The threat was their slice, not them. Slicing when used by one of these noobs, and when not combined with Lockdown (which accounts for by far most slices) is much easier to deal with. It leaves you with enough engines to break for Line of sight. Excluding the video with AZ, I have only died to slicing one other time since 6.3, and I was admittedly very open and exposed, over reaching trying to win a tight game carrying a bunch of feeders. So I can accept that. No issue there. Every other time I have been sliced I have been able to LoS, evade and find safety, or even beat the slicer. So the nerf is working.

 

As for the game against AZ that I linked... you said its hard to tell what is the biggest factor there. So let me put it this way. AZ is a very good pilot, probably Ace level, (haven't seen him play anything but slice - so can't say) but for sure he is very good in the T3F. Lets say all other factors were the same. So he had the better team, he had center map control and hence DO control, and he was still using lockdown, but, lets say he wasn't slicing. It would've been much easier to deal with. If he plays a GS, you play GS and you play shadow games with each other. If he plays a Strike you play Strike and use your mobility to evade him or even get DOs yourself. Its the slice factor that is the game changer. That is the reason I went negative KDR. I can handle a bad team with an Ace on the other side. Not saying I will win. Just saying I can fly defensively and take my opportunities for kills. What I can't handle is all those factors and slicing, and I defy anyone to think they can. I've witnessed first hand Neutrinos and Invis pressured so badly into negative KDRs even without slicing being a factor. And those two are as good as it gets. So factor in slicing along with all the other pressures that come with facing an Ace while being on a terrible team, and you cannot do anything. Verain will argue you can. but he plays elusively in a premade and won't go solo to pove his point. So. yeah...

 

So in conclusion I am happy that the slicing nerf is working and it's not so easy for a noob to go "anti-Ace" mode on you. But I still fundamentally disagree with the concept that by the press of two buttons someone can entirely disable your ship. I fundamentally disagree with the fact that slicing can be combined with Lockdown and still has such devastating effect. Which is why I advocated for all the engine drain to be removed. Do you nerf slicing more? Do you nerf Lockdown? I don't I think I can say it any better than Despon's well documented thoughts on the matter, which is essentially that hard CC is a bad game design, and there is no way to fix that. You either like hard CC abilities that have no direct counter component, or you don't.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Ttoilleekul

Vet Here, 98% completion.

 

Remote Slicing is absurdly overpowered. OP stated it perfectly. The ability rewards the user greatly and requires no skill to use. Only annoying tumors use it.

 

As for what the ability would do after a nerf is applied, I'll leave that up to you guys. But you have my support to crush this ability into dust.