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Update on Nightmare Loot Changes


EricMusco

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Hey folks,

 

Recently, we announced that starting in Game Update 4.1, only the final boss in each Nightmare Operation would have a 100% chance to drop 224 gear. The dev team has been very actively following all of the feedback that you in the community have been posting regarding this change. With that in mind, they are making one additional change… Starting in Game Update 4.2 all bosses in Nightmare Operations will drop 224 rating gear.

 

We saw a lot of feedback over the past few weeks where many of you felt strongly that Nightmare should be a guaranteed source for the best gear, even if that means the priority HM was equivalent. The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly. However, if a group of players is skilled enough to run through multiple Nightmare Operations in a single week, we should reward that appropriately.

 

Again, just to remind you of the current timeline for these changes:

  • Game Update 4.1 (Chapter X) – The final boss of each NiM Operation is guaranteed to drop 224. All other NiM bosses have a chance for 224.
  • Game Update 4.2 (Chapter XI) – All bosses in each NiM Operations are guaranteed to drop 224.

The only reason we are not making all changes for 4.1 is the development time required to implement and test these changes. We want to make sure we get these changes implemented and working properly, and unfortunately we cannot complete all of this in time for 4.1.

 

Thanks everyone for your continued feedback.

 

-eric

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Hey folks,

 

Recently, we announced that starting in Game Update 4.1, only the final boss in each Nightmare Operation would have a 100% chance to drop 224 gear. The dev team has been very actively following all of the feedback that you in the community have been posting regarding this change. With that in mind, they are making one additional change… Starting in Game Update 4.2 all bosses in Nightmare Operations will drop 224 rating gear.

 

We saw a lot of feedback over the past few weeks where many of you felt strongly that Nightmare should be a guaranteed source for the best gear, even if that means the priority HM was equivalent. The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly. However, if a group of players is skilled enough to run through multiple Nightmare Operations in a single week, we should reward that appropriately.

 

Again, just to remind you of the current timeline for these changes:

  • Game Update 4.1 (Chapter X) – The final boss of each NiM Operation is guaranteed to drop 224. All other NiM bosses have a chance for 224.
  • Game Update 4.2 (Chapter XI) – All bosses in each NiM Operations are guaranteed to drop 224.

The only reason we are not making all changes for 4.1 is the development time required to implement and test these changes. We want to make sure we get these changes implemented and working properly, and unfortunately we cannot complete all of this in time for 4.1.

 

Thanks everyone for your continued feedback.

 

-eric

 

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I hope that many, like myself, will return to the game with news like this that you have actively listened to your player base. Perhaps with more news like this from the development team, that will happen.

 

Honestly, there are several boss fights (Master & Blaster) that are nearly impossible to complete even at the HM level for any but the absolute BEST teams, barring anyone less than top tier groups from making any progress on those operations and completing them.

 

Your concerns about the speed of gearing should mean you take EV and KP off the Highlighted HM rotation rather than gate the gear at the highest level, that many will be unable to complete anyway. I personally do not feel like that is a good decision at this point because it is FAR too late for that. But, if you wanted honest feedback for the -next- go around, you should perhaps consider things from that vantage point when planning what operations will reward what gear.

 

I also hope that you guys will consider STRONGLY the feedback from all variety of player (from the raid community down to the most casual of players) with regard to the loot that drops in the Eternal Championship. You should at minimum make it mod-able gear and not static, as gearing is an important thing to teach players about end-game play (even for solo or small group content) that can improve their game dramatically and the experiences they have with others in group content. Static gear rewards in that arena would be a waste of your development time.

 

Thanks again for listening to your players, fans, and lovers of this game. Also, thank you for communicating so clearly as you have done here. It is very easy to continue to support a game where this type of interaction with the developers takes place. Please keep it up! It is more appreciated than you probably know.

Edited by PennyAnn
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Hey folks,

 

Recently, we announced that starting in Game Update 4.1, only the final boss in each Nightmare Operation would have a 100% chance to drop 224 gear. The dev team has been very actively following all of the feedback that you in the community have been posting regarding this change. With that in mind, they are making one additional change… Starting in Game Update 4.2 all bosses in Nightmare Operations will drop 224 rating gear.

 

We saw a lot of feedback over the past few weeks where many of you felt strongly that Nightmare should be a guaranteed source for the best gear, even if that means the priority HM was equivalent. The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly. However, if a group of players is skilled enough to run through multiple Nightmare Operations in a single week, we should reward that appropriately.

 

Again, just to remind you of the current timeline for these changes:

  • Game Update 4.1 (Chapter X) – The final boss of each NiM Operation is guaranteed to drop 224. All other NiM bosses have a chance for 224.
  • Game Update 4.2 (Chapter XI) – All bosses in each NiM Operations are guaranteed to drop 224.

The only reason we are not making all changes for 4.1 is the development time required to implement and test these changes. We want to make sure we get these changes implemented and working properly, and unfortunately we cannot complete all of this in time for 4.1.

 

Thanks everyone for your continued feedback.

 

-eric

 

Thank you for the update Eric I think alot of people in the raiding community will appreciate the change. It's nice to see the rectification and it's even better to see that the Dev team is taking the community concerns into account. I'm hoping for more positive updates like this keep them coming Eric and I also want to say that you guys have done a good job this past week in communicating and addressing the communities concerns.

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Good on you for changing this but I can't shake the feeling that this has less to do with player feedback and moreso that enough time has passed that you no longer need to ration out 224 gear in an attempt to keep raiders subbed. Seems very similar to the conquest crafting situation which received tons of criticism that was ignored for like a year before the exact change tons of people advocated for got implemented.
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Hey folks,

The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly. However, if a group of players is skilled enough to run through multiple Nightmare Operations in a single week, we should reward that appropriately.

 

-eric

 

If you were concerned about the rate of 224 gear acquisition you would have left EV/KP off the HHM table.

 

Aside from this obvious disconnect, the change is appreciated.

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The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly.

-eric

Oh boy. I know its not your fault but please explain to whoever is making the decision about loot in this game how gearings works for groups skilled and dedicated enough to do nightmare.

Pretty much all experienced raiders remaining in this game have ******** of alts to farm 224 gear. I know players who routinely go through a dozen lockouts each week in highlighted hardmode and can bring more than twenty lockouts if necessary.

So gear isnt any issue anymore at this point. It hasnt been for many weeks. Hardcore raiding guilds were done with gear progression the week EV got highlighted the first time. I dont want to go into details here but i'm sure you are aware how to manage the lockouts in EV/KP for maximum efficiency.

Sure, some might still miss the an 224 relic or implant or what not, but its irrelevant if you have your two or three nightmare raiding toons already in BIS.

In short, whoever decides how loot progression works in this game has no idea how it is done on highest level.

Limiting BIS loot to one highlighted operation hasnt slowed things down a bit. In fact it made things worse, instead of progessing Brontes NM all night all week we farmed hardmode Operations until everyone was BIS and too bored to care anymore.

The change is nice as far as you listened to the community for once, but its not only way too late to make any difference, your initial plan was doomed to fail from the start and just shows a serious disconnect between your devs and the hardcore raiding community.

 

Oh and lolz to you if 224 becomes craftable with 4.1 as it was kinda hinted at in the last stream.

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[sNIP]

However, if a group of players is skilled enough to run through multiple Nightmare Operations in a single week, we should reward that appropriately.

First of I appreciate you listening and admitting you were wrong, but it might be too late for that already. I was expecting this response 2 days after the last announcement concerning this issue.

 

At this point I don't believe that 224 gear on NiM level will be enough incentive for veterans to stay and even bother.

The gear progression is long over, thanks to Highlighted Bore Mode. The very few new decorations you added have been farmed quite easily in whatever gear was available.

 

Gear is one of the major factors to keep running content. And there is no gear to get, even with 224 on all NiM bosses, everyone has it already who cared, this will not do in the long run to keep NiM raiders busy till whatever time you deem to reveal a new ops.

To be honest put 230 on all NiM bosses. That would at least keep some form of progression alive.

 

The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly. However, if a group of players is skilled enough to run through multiple Nightmare Operations in a single week, we should reward that appropriately.

I may go on a limp here, but getting BiS from Highlighted Bore Mode was possible as soon as all items were dropping. And literally and kind of "progression guild" or what is/was left of them/us was BiS the Week that Highlighted HM hit that had the option to get the missing piece.

 

You literally managed to do the opposite of what you were afraid of. You killed the gear progression and replaced it with bored farm content that you could do in mostly 198 gear and undermanned. If that was your concern I really hope you won't have many more concerns in the future or more of my friends and guild mates will quit this game for good.

 

 

So what you did was instead of allowing players to farm gear in NiM (aka the hardest content), like progression works in every game and did so well in this even, you arbitrary made a time table so everyone can get BiS in the same day no matter the skill level of said players, thereby removing player skill and any kind of differentiation of skilled raiders?

 

What is next, no more gear just bolster for all?

Increase repair cost to punish the people who do hard content, as no one else has to pay the piper (pvp, gsf, story stuff, etc)?

 

gg wp

 

 

Sure, some might still miss the an 224 relic or implant or what not, but its irrelevant if you have your two or three nightmare raiding toons already in BIS.

You will only miss those if you can't 8m the 16m Ops :rolleyes:

Edited by TopAceOfEarth
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In short, whoever decides how loot progression works in this game has no idea how it is done on highest level.

Limiting BIS loot to one highlighted operation hasnt slowed things down a bit. In fact it made things worse, instead of progessing Brontes NM all night all week we farmed hardmode Operations until everyone was BIS and too bored to care anymore.

The change is nice as far as you listened to the community for once, but its not only way too late to make any difference, your initial plan was doomed to fail from the start and just shows a serious disconnect between your devs and the hardcore raiding community.

I could not agree more. They doomed themselves from the start. People naturally take the path of least resistance...that's been HM Ops that, like you said, people farmed with their multiple toons, multiple times per week. The very people they tried to slow down, they actually boosted. The disconnect is unreal.

 

That being said...I'm glad they are making the change...but it's too late to matter now.

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I lost a lot of good friends who left the game since you presented the new Nightmare Loot plans back in 2015, sure loot wasn't everything but it was a big factor and what it means (ignoring and denouncing the Nightmare Raiders), it's a shame it took you so long to just take the right decision. There is no way they will come back, but if you just had followed what the community wanted in the start, most would likely still be here.

 

I hope you all get fired if you ever take a similar decision again.

Edited by RikuvonDrake
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How hard would it be to change the drops to all 224 loot? Really BW? The decision making process that we are seeing are reminiscent of shooting yourself in the foot, deciding that was actually a bad idea, chopping the foot off because your foot is useless now anyways, deciding THAT sucks, and then making yourself a half-assed prosthetic foot that almost works as well as an original foot. WHO IS MAKING THESE DECISIONS?! Fire that person, or stick to your guns. This wishy-washy BS is really getting old. Why do you need player feedback to tell you that your decisions suck? Edited by drummerinthesun
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Great to hear! This will certainly be a big motivation for my group when running nightmare mode. Not that we will really need any more 224 gear by the time 4.2 comes around, but at least we won't feel punished for running more difficult content, and there are always alts to equip. ;)

 

The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly.

This should have been included in your first post about nightmare loot for some damage control. I like this sentence because it shows that you base your decisions on reasons and not arbitrariness.

 

But I'm wondering why you will not admit a mistake, because I saw no apology in this post. E.g. something like "We didn't take into account that players would farm highlighted HMs on multiple toons and send it to the main via legacy gear" or "We didn't expect players to 4-man a HM boss" would have worked as an apology.

Instead, I'm worried that the developers have not really understood why this is such a huge issue to some players, and if we will get similar decisions again in the future. If you really want to earn back the trust of the endgame players, such an apology would be a good start, along with explaining why you added EV and KP to the list of Priority Targets. For now, I am still not convinced that BioWare is committed to pleasing the raiding community.

 

Follow up question, will nightmare drop both 220 and 224 gear (like Highlighted HM), or only 224? And will there be any MK-2 pieces with 224 gear? Tanks want to get their lettered mods. :D

Also, can we expect that loot bugs will be fixed in a timely manner going forward? There's nothing worse than killing a boss only for the loot to be bugged. It seems like Customer Service will no longer help out when loot is bugged (they didn't grant us the loot for Dread Council HM during Priority Target), so we have to rely on the devs to have the bug fixed the next time we kill the boss.

Edited by Jerba
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Hey folks,

 

Recently, we announced that starting in Game Update 4.1, only the final boss in each Nightmare Operation would have a 100% chance to drop 224 gear. The dev team has been very actively following all of the feedback that you in the community have been posting regarding this change. With that in mind, they are making one additional change… Starting in Game Update 4.2 all bosses in Nightmare Operations will drop 224 rating gear.

 

We saw a lot of feedback over the past few weeks where many of you felt strongly that Nightmare should be a guaranteed source for the best gear, even if that means the priority HM was equivalent. The reason that we did not make it this way initially is we had concerns about players ability to gain best in slot gear extremely quickly. However, if a group of players is skilled enough to run through multiple Nightmare Operations in a single week, we should reward that appropriately.

 

Again, just to remind you of the current timeline for these changes:

  • Game Update 4.1 (Chapter X) – The final boss of each NiM Operation is guaranteed to drop 224. All other NiM bosses have a chance for 224.
  • Game Update 4.2 (Chapter XI) – All bosses in each NiM Operations are guaranteed to drop 224.

The only reason we are not making all changes for 4.1 is the development time required to implement and test these changes. We want to make sure we get these changes implemented and working properly, and unfortunately we cannot complete all of this in time for 4.1.

 

Thanks everyone for your continued feedback.

 

-eric

 

 

Thank you.

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Great news but if you worrying about people gearing to early with BIS stuff.....too late. I don't think HM ops should have ever dropped 224 gear to begin with. Why would you award the highest level gear tier to players that have only done middle tier content? It makes no sense from a progression stand point. The idea is you get the best rewards from completing the hardest content. EV/KP HM is not the hardest content BY FAR and for a competent raid team even in some 208/216 gear is still easy enough. And the fact you get bolth 220 AND 224 gear to drop, that's 8 pieces of token gear 4/224 peaces and 4/220 pieces. that's means if you run it 4 times, depending on your teams loot rules, 4 people are walking out of the raid with a 4 piece 224 set and 4 people with a 220 piece set. How can you say that you are worried about people getting BIS gear when on a random Saturday you could have the above happen? 1 day and almost full BIS for 4 people, and you don't want people gearing to fast? 224 gear should ONLY drop in NiM modes as a reward for completing the hardest content period.
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