I was going to put this on the end of the petition. but its so huge it deserves its own post. I want to say a huge thank you to everyone who added their name to the petition, *Remote Slicing will be nerfed as of tomorrow!" The Devs listened, so also a huge thank you to them for listening to the GSF community.

The nerf will be as stated in the patch notes "Remote Slicing now requires line of sight and the amount of Engine Drain suffered is reduced by half."

I'm fine with it. It will still be threat, as intended, but it now will not be so immensely debilitating to face a persistent slicer. In fact, they slice you once, you start LoS'ing them, and I cannot see them getting a further slice.

Nice that they're clearly trying to nerf abuse of RS without impairing use of RS.

I'm a little surprised that it's so light of a nerf, but I suppose testing this and then maybe tweaking the CD a bit later if needed is a pretty decent way to approach it.

Also, I'm impressed that they put in a LOS check, which seems like it might be more work than just changing numbers. They're not just trying for a fix, they're going for a high quality fix. Nicely done Devs.

Nice that they're clearly trying to nerf abuse of RS without impairing use of RS.

 

I'm a little surprised that it's so light of a nerf, but I suppose testing this and then maybe tweaking the CD a bit later if needed is a pretty decent way to approach it.

 

Also, I'm impressed that they put in a LOS check, which seems like it might be more work than just changing numbers. They're not just trying for a fix, they're going for a high quality fix. Nicely done Devs.

Yeah I thought the same thing. They are actually thinking about the best way to nerf it rather than a simple number change. To be fair I don't think its a "light" nerf. They could've done more, yes, but they could've done a lot worse. That LoS requirement is a pretty big deal. It adds the element of necessary skill to using the ability, and now means the direct counter to Slicing is LoS flying. I may be wrong, but in that slow moving immobile ship, I don't think a persistent slicer is going to easily be able to get a 2nd slice on you, once you start LoS'ing. No longer can they slice to control you, and then get the lock when it suits them. Now they are going to have to put some work into it. I would say, for now, it's a sensible nerf.

i mean strike changes took them over two years to implement after they said they wanted feedback so yeah it will be a while

I stand corrected and I couldn't be happier about it.

To any devs reading this thread: thank you so much for having a look at this ability. I know GSF is usually pretty low on the priority list so getting any kind of attention means a lot.

I personally would have liked to see some cooldown tweaks as well, as I think the cooldown is hilariously short, but this might be enough to make that a non-issue. We'll see where it lands and I look forward to testing it.

Nice that they're clearly trying to nerf abuse of RS without impairing use of RS.

 

I'm a little surprised that it's so light of a nerf, but I suppose testing this and then maybe tweaking the CD a bit later if needed is a pretty decent way to approach it.

 

Also, I'm impressed that they put in a LOS check, which seems like it might be more work than just changing numbers. They're not just trying for a fix, they're going for a high quality fix. Nicely done Devs.

The 5.5 changes (where they made strikes the way they are now), they implemented on the test server, and selected people to run tests on them, and then take feed back to tweek the changes as they went along before making it live.

This one sounds like probably they didnt go thru so much trouble for it.

Lets hope this works out well.

I said "light" mostly because this nerf will have basically no effect at all on how I personally use RS. So I expect it will feel light or non-existent to me.

Looking at it like a mean spirited griefer, RS still looks rather OP. Combine RS, EMP missile, and Lockdown, and the target is going to have a rough time of it if even one other ship decides to come after them. Depending on how good the griefer is at engine management, Power DIve use, and power-up collection in TDMs, I'm not sure that the extra engine power saved by the nerf will be enough to give the victim meaningful breathing room. Keep in mind that being in range and having LoS is still vastly easier than aiming and hitting with any weapon in GSF.

I look at RS as primarily an Engine/Shield lockout, and since CP bombers aren't really a thing anymore, it's basically an engine maneuver lockout. Engine maneuvers are a core defensive mechanic. At high skill levels they're also strong mobility and offensive utilities. Being locked out from using them hurts, especially now that missiles and torpedoes work pretty well. Chaining together RS followed by EMP missile a fast as cooldowns allow, you can in theory have a target's engine maneuver locked out for about 40 seconds of each minute, assuming you give a little overlap to make sure the missile lands. Use lockdown to spoil the remaining 20 seconds. Two RS lockouts per minute seems excessive on a ship with other strong disable type components available at the same time.

Something on the order of 1 to 1.5 RS lockouts per minute would still be pretty strong even if you don't take EMP, but would still leave a target able to use their engine maneuver at least half the time if the RS ship did take EMP.

I like that they're taking a gentle/incremental approach to this nerf, but I think that if stopping targeted griefing is a goal a modest CD increase will probably be needed as well.

I said "light" mostly because this nerf will have basically no effect at all on how I personally use RS. So I expect it will feel light or non-existent to me.

 

Looking at it like a mean spirited griefer, RS still looks rather OP. Combine RS, EMP missile, and Lockdown, and the target is going to have a rough time of it if even one other ship decides to come after them. Depending on how good the griefer is at engine management, Power DIve use, and power-up collection in TDMs, I'm not sure that the extra engine power saved by the nerf will be enough to give the victim meaningful breathing room. Keep in mind that being in range and having LoS is still vastly easier than aiming and hitting with any weapon in GSF.

 

I look at RS as primarily an Engine/Shield lockout, and since CP bombers aren't really a thing anymore, it's basically an engine maneuver lockout. Engine maneuvers are a core defensive mechanic. At high skill levels they're also strong mobility and offensive utilities. Being locked out from using them hurts, especially now that missiles and torpedoes work pretty well. Chaining together RS followed by EMP missile a fast as cooldowns allow, you can in theory have a target's engine maneuver locked out for about 40 seconds of each minute, assuming you give a little overlap to make sure the missile lands. Use lockdown to spoil the remaining 20 seconds. Two RS lockouts per minute seems excessive on a ship with other strong disable type components available at the same time.

 

Something on the order of 1 to 1.5 RS lockouts per minute would still be pretty strong even if you don't take EMP, but would still leave a target able to use their engine maneuver at least half the time if the RS ship did take EMP.

 

I like that they're taking a gentle/incremental approach to this nerf, but I think that if stopping targeted griefing is a goal a modest CD increase will probably be needed as well.

Not going to argue with any of that, because you are 100% correct. A skilled pilot can work with this and still be a pain in the neck. However what it will do is stop all those mindless clueless talentless slicers - who couldn't hit water standing on a boat - from ruining your day. And even in the hands of a skilled pilot, it will make slicing easier to deal with. How much easier remains to be seen.

Did some testing, and from an RS user's perspective, it seems pretty much unaffected. Meaning that if combined with either type of torpedo RS should increase kills per match on the order of 10 to 15 compared to say, Repair Probes.

That said, it didn't feel bad. The primary trouble is getting the torp lock before the target breaks LoS. Had a chance to test against some reasonably skilled battlescout drivers, and RS does make torpedoes quite deadly, but a good defender does seem to have a sporting chance to break lock if they can get to cover. As a tool to get kills, I think it feels ok.

I didn't have the heart to go EMP trolling with RS, but from how it worked with torps, I think that would end up being pretty bad even for a skilled defender. For the torps, the limiting factor was not at all landing RS, it was keeping the target inside a torp firing arc long enough to lock (I was running extra speed, rapid reload, and extra ammo, so not doing myself any favors on arc size). So with EMP missile, I have to assume it would be landing even more hits per match. The trickiest part would be timing it so that RS is almost finished before landing EMP missile to maximize engine lockout.

Which leads me to think that there might be no perfect RS balance. As a killing tool, I think it's probably fine as is. As a crowd control tool that's combined with EMP missile, it's probably still too strong. Nerf it to not be too strong as crowd control, and it might feel a bit weak as a killing tool. Given that the T3F is a support role ship, that's probably ok. It would still feel stronger than Combat Command I think.

My recommendation at this point would be to increase the base CD about 10 seconds, and see how that feels. I suspect that for most pilots it won't feel that much weaker for landing torps, but will give defenders more time to put together a successful escape or counterattack against a griefer using EMP.

Did some testing, and from an RS user's perspective, it seems pretty much unaffected. Meaning that if combined with either type of torpedo RS should increase kills per match on the order of 10 to 15 compared to say, Repair Probes.

 

That said, it didn't feel bad. The primary trouble is getting the torp lock before the target breaks LoS. Had a chance to test against some reasonably skilled battlescout drivers, and RS does make torpedoes quite deadly, but a good defender does seem to have a sporting chance to break lock if they can get to cover. As a tool to get kills, I think it feels ok.

 

I didn't have the heart to go EMP trolling with RS, but from how it worked with torps, I think that would end up being pretty bad even for a skilled defender. For the torps, the limiting factor was not at all landing RS, it was keeping the target inside a torp firing arc long enough to lock (I was running extra speed, rapid reload, and extra ammo, so not doing myself any favors on arc size). So with EMP missile, I have to assume it would be landing even more hits per match. The trickiest part would be timing it so that RS is almost finished before landing EMP missile to maximize engine lockout.

 

Which leads me to think that there might be no perfect RS balance. As a killing tool, I think it's probably fine as is. As a crowd control tool that's combined with EMP missile, it's probably still too strong. Nerf it to not be too strong as crowd control, and it might feel a bit weak as a killing tool. Given that the T3F is a support role ship, that's probably ok. It would still feel stronger than Combat Command I think.

 

My recommendation at this point would be to increase the base CD about 10 seconds, and see how that feels. I suspect that for most pilots it won't feel that much weaker for landing torps, but will give defenders more time to put together a successful escape or counterattack against a griefer using EMP.

Well, in short I agree. I did some testing myself too, and the LoS aspect of the nerf almost doesn't come into it. Since most people wait for the missile to go airborne before they use their break, its easy to lock someone and then hold the slice until the missile is away. I certainly never encountered one situation where I felt I needed to slice someone behind cover. Secondly, I just had my worst nightmare - exactly what the nerf was suposed to stop - a competent slicer focusing me while I am on a bad team. He was using Lockdown, and combining that with slicing, there is practically no feeling of a nerf at all. My team were enable to peel him, so I had to keep my eye on him all the time, which means never engaging anyone else. Since he was able to penetrate our lines at will, I was unable to fend him off or use cover. Admittedly it was Kuat, where using cover is much harder than say Iokath, but the point still remains. It was all too easy for him to shut down the biggest threat on the enemy team. I will be sending the video to the devs.