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Gunslinger/Snipers need some heals...


Jarbarian

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Totally unfair in PVP to have Scoundrels/Operatives who can heal and have 3 different types of CC and defenses and other classes who can heal (including Sentinel!).

 

Look I play every class in the game. EVERY CLASS except Slingers/Snipers who were deeply nerfed. AOE alone is melting our class and we really have no way to recover. A lot of our defenses were removed OR we have to choose between defenses.

 

I'm scratching my head on why this class was nerfed so badly when, AS USUAL, BW does nothing about OVERPOWERED SCOUNDREL/OPERATIVES, whom for a decade now have been Overpowered for PVP yet nothing was done about it.

 

If any class needed a nerf like this, it wasn't Slingers/Snipers. It was SCOUNDREL/OPERATIVE that needed the hard nerf.

 

FIX IT! Bring back our heals at least. We need all of our defenses back. No reason to sit there and in full defenses watch our health drop to 0 with just a Jugg or Operative or PT on us.

 

Its no wonder why people quit. 10 years we've asked for nerfs to Operatives/Scoundrels and BW gives us a big middle finger while taking our money...

Edited by Jarbarian
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https://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=10024853&postcount=16

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=1000995

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9967910#post9967910

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=986692

 

.... So basically just another nerf operative threads? Don't you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk?

 

At least be specific and say which spec specifically you are whining about now.

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https://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=10024853&postcount=16

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=1000995

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9967910#post9967910

 

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=986692

 

.... So basically just another nerf operative threads? Don't you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk?

 

At least be specific and say which spec specifically you are whining about now.

 

Oh look, someone bothered to go look up my thread to see yes, I've been complaining about operatives for a long time. Why, you say? BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL WAY OVERPOWERED IN PVP!.

 

So before you complain about my LEGITIMATE gripe about YOUR class (And yes, I play Scoundrel too, I think its WAY OP for PVP and has been for over a decade now!).

 

You miss the entire thread. Slinger/Snipers have no heals. NONE! We have no way to mitigate damage like we used to. Operatives can now just toss dots on everyone and ONLY those who can heal can counter that. NOT SLINGERS/SNIPERS. Dot damage alone kills us and the burst damage is just way over the top.

 

Why do you think you do not see any slingers/snipers in PVP anymore? Why just Operatives/Shadows and Jugg/Sentinel? BECAUSE THEIR BURST DAMAGE IS RETARDED! Even Sorc dots are destroying slingers.

 

Do you not get it? We need our heals back to mitigate the dot damage. Scoundrel/Operative/Sorc dot damage alone kills us.

 

Do your own research instead of reading my threads and whining about them. You know your class is OP you just don't want to see them put back on an even/level playing field.

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Do you not get it? We need our heals back to mitigate the dot damage. Scoundrel/Operative/Sorc dot damage alone kills us.

 

If you think you can facetank sorcs or operatives with vital regulators you are high on copium :D

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If you think you can facetank sorcs or operatives with vital regulators you are high on copium :D

 

Nope. Its not about "Facetanking" anyone. Its the fact just their dots alone can kill you, not just their regular and burst damage which is already retarded.

 

Meh, I'll have to go Saboteur just to try to dot them up too.

 

("Hey you gotta play a dot spec to have a fair fight"!) which is how I see it.

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I hate to break it to you, but Operatives/Scoundrels have been nerfed in 7.0.

 

 

  • The biggest nerf was the change to Exfiltrate/Scamper. The 100% evasion bonus was reduced to 30% for Concealment/Scrapper, just as it is with Lethality/Ruffian. Plus, the loss of Tactician gear means a return to the 8s cooldown on the ability.
  • Operatives and Scoundrels lost some of their CC. The loss of Tactician gear also means no more double Debilitate/Dirty Kick. Flash Bang is now something you have to choose against Infiltrate/Smuggle (which I'm not counting because we're talking about PvP) and Holotraverse/Trick Move. This means that keeping the CC means losing mobility and vice versa. Sever Tendon/Tendon Blast is now a modification to Crippling Slice/Shank Shot, which means losing out on one of those abilities either way.
  • While Operative/Scoundrel still has heals, healing, in general, is not as effective this patch as it was last patch, especially for DPS classes. Their heals may help them in 1v1 situations, but if they're focused, they melt.

 

By the way, I'm going to point out this thread, where you, Jarbarian, called for less heals, less CC, and less Rolls (the lowered evasion and loss of a lower cooldown effectively makes Exfiltrate/Scamper less effective). You got just about everything that you and multiple other people asked for in this patch.

 

I agree that Gunslinger/Sniper needs some love defensively. But, that just means playing smarter, picking your spots, and learning when to retreat, instead of just rolling up to any fight and popping a mountain of defensive cooldowns while people drop bombs on you in vain. In addition, I have literally never had an easier time of killing Operatives/Scoundrels in PvP. The good ones are still dangerous, but the gap is no longer insurmountable.

Edited by Enticy
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Totally unfair in PVP to have Scoundrels/Operatives who can heal and have 3 different types of CC and defenses and other classes who can heal (including Sentinel!).

 

Are you seriously playing PVP as Watchmen? This is priceless.

 

You say you play all the classes? Maybe, but you don't seem to know them, otherwise you would realize each class has painful decisions to make and has lost a lot.

 

It seems to me you just want to sit in one spot and spam your rotation instead of properly kiting as a sniper should.

Edited by varietasplus
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I hate to break it to you, but Operatives/Scoundrels have been nerfed in 7.0.

 

 

  • The biggest nerf was the change to Exfiltrate/Scamper. The 100% evasion bonus was reduced to 30% for Concealment/Scrapper, just as it is with Lethality/Ruffian. Plus, the loss of Tactician gear means a return to the 8s cooldown on the ability.
  • Operatives and Scoundrels lost some of their CC. The loss of Tactician gear also means no more double Debilitate/Dirty Kick. Flash Bang is now something you have to choose against Infiltrate/Smuggle (which I'm not counting because we're talking about PvP) and Holotraverse/Trick Move. This means that keeping the CC means losing mobility and vice versa. Sever Tendon/Tendon Blast is now a modification to Crippling Slice/Shank Shot, which means losing out on one of those abilities either way.
  • While Operative/Scoundrel still has heals, healing, in general, is not as effective this patch as it was last patch, especially for DPS classes. Their heals may help them in 1v1 situations, but if they're focused, they melt.

 

On the whole... yes... but some of the specifics are wrong.

 

  • Roll resist chance wasn't nerfed.
     
  • The biggest nerf to operative was the lack of defensives. They gutted all of the DR.
     
  • You don't have consistent burst because burst is now tied to stim boost.
     
  • Uptime was also nerfed since they removed countermeasures purge. So you are forced to take holotraverse even though it is the most buggy ability in the game. Never the less you have to take holotraverse over flash bang to maintain uptime.

 

But on the whole, pretty accurate. Conc was gutted in 7.0. So no clue what the OP is whining about now.... I think he just enjoys whining to be relevant.

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On the whole... yes... but some of the specifics are wrong.

 

  • Roll resist chance wasn't nerfed.
     
  • The biggest nerf to operative was the lack of defensives. They gutted all of the DR.
     
  • You don't have consistent burst because burst is now tied to stim boost.
     
  • Uptime was also nerfed since they removed countermeasures purge. So you are forced to take holotraverse even though it is the most buggy ability in the game. Never the less you have to take holotraverse over flash bang to maintain uptime.

 

But on the whole, pretty accurate. Conc was gutted in 7.0. So no clue what the OP is whining about now.... I think he just enjoys whining to be relevant.

 

Yeah, I didn’t really look at many of the passives because I was working when I responded, but yeah. Operative/Scoundrel ain’t what it used to be.

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I

By the way, I'm going to point out this thread, where you, Jarbarian, called for less heals, less CC, and less Rolls (the lowered evasion and loss of a lower cooldown effectively makes Exfiltrate/Scamper less effective). You got just about everything that you and multiple other people asked for in this patch.

 

I agree that Gunslinger/Sniper needs some love defensively. But, that just means playing smarter, picking your spots, and learning when to retreat, instead of just rolling up to any fight and popping a mountain of defensive cooldowns while people drop bombs on you in vain. In addition, I have literally never had an easier time of killing Operatives/Scoundrels in PvP. The good ones are still dangerous, but the gap is no longer insurmountable.

 

Ok fair point. But I don't see that weakness on my Scoundrel. I do see my dots melting faces and when I get on my Slinger, it's EXTREMELY apparent that my Slinger is dead by mostly dots alone. Not just from Operatives, but also Sorcs, Tanks, etc.

 

Well thought out, I would just like to see Slingers get their "I'm sitting here behind a shield, I really wish I could get some kind of heal while I am unable to do any damage" kind of thing back.

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Sniper/gunslinger is probably the hardest class to play, defensively speaking. All of its defenses are based around positioning. This means that Snipers will pretty much always lose against a ranged class (all else being equal), but will dominate warriors.

 

Operatives live in a special place where because of their stealth and root breaks, they are actually a counter to Snipers. All of this has been true since launch, and as 5.x and 6.x dragged on, all classes were given all tools which watered down their identities.

 

Sniper is very difficult to play in a warzone unless you have good team support.

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Well thought out, I would just like to see Slingers get their "I'm sitting here behind a shield, I really wish I could get some kind of heal while I am unable to do any damage" kind of thing back.

 

Homie, I do not know how you were playing sniper in 6.0. But if you struggled to pump damage on sniper, you were doing something wrong.

Edited by xXSchmedlyXx
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Homie, I do not know how you were playing sniper in 6.0. But if you struggled to pump damage on sniper, you were doing something wrong.

 

Not complaining about 6.x.

 

My issue is with 7.x and the complete removal of all heals.

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i say 15% roll heal and 5% heal should be ok

 

Just bring that back. Not sure why BW felt Slingers/Snipers didn't need heals with the extra damage all the other classes have. Dots alone are enough to shut up our ranged class.

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Self heal yea def come in I mean ppl just dot u and los ><

 

I said that earlier. AFAIK, Sniper/Slingers are the only class WITHOUT a heal AND had some CC/Defenses removed.

 

As for the one above you, skill has nothing to do when your class has no way to heal.

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The only reason I play this game is for tank/heal 4v4 arenas. I had a match recently where we had a pretty skilled sniper using his defensives as well as possible. The other team just triple tunneled the sniper through guard since their dcds have been gutted so heavily compared to other classes. He took so much pressure that he nearly killed me tanking through guard damage. We managed to edge out a win, but the fact that a triple tunnel strat is even effective means very bad things for the current meta. The damage a sniper brings is not worth the extreme pressure they put on their own team's support. Classes like sniper and hatred assassin are in the same boat right now. Decent damage output , but no dcds to relieve pressure. Edited by Llacertus
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The other team just triple tunneled the sniper through guard since their dcds have been gutted so heavily compared to other classes. He took so much pressure that he nearly killed me tanking through guard damage. We managed to edge out a win, but the fact that a triple tunnel strat is even effective means very bad things for the current meta.

 

Triple tunnel sniper and triple tunnel healer have been viable strats for years. For the last 10 years sniper has been meta and teams have tried to tunnel sniper. It comes down to a lot of factors such as ability to position, team composition, enemy team composition, amount of peels, skill of sniper, etc... For example, although operative healers are meta atm, merc healers might deal with triple tunnel better with the amount of single target heals they have. The fact that a sniper could be triple tunneled in regs or solo ranked (guessing its not group ranked) doesn't mean anything, no offense.

 

 

The damage a sniper brings is not worth the extreme pressure they put on their own team's support. Classes like sniper and hatred assassin are in the same boat right now. Decent damage output , but no dcds to relieve pressure.

 

Sniper's dcds in group ranked are practically the same. The only thing they lost was roll self heal (which isn't important in group ranked), a choice between ballistic shield and holotraverse (where the obvious choice is ballistic in group ranked), and OG evasion (which I guess you can argue is a big deal).

 

Sniper's are absolutely viable in group ranked. Not the best, but viable. In fact engi is one of the strongest burst specs you can bring in group ranked. You can argue that they aren't great in solo ranked or regs, but in group ranked... they practically stayed the same.

Edited by septru
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As for the one above you, skill has nothing to do when your class has no way to heal.

 

You're telling me you are QQing about the fact that you eventually die in 2 minutes to a leth op's 2 dots that do 40k damage over 18s without any heals?

 

There's a lot of things you can complain about on sniper... this is not one of them.

Edited by septru
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The fact that a sniper could be triple tunneled in regs or solo ranked (guessing its not group ranked) doesn't mean anything, no offense.

 

The match was a 4v4 granked match. I thought I made that clear in the first sentence.

I agree that people have tried to triple tunnel snipers, but it was much easier to defend against that strat in 6.0. As long as their tank kept up with them, a decent sniper could easily survive. I don't think we ever lost to a team that tried to triple tunnel sniper the whole match, because of phase walk and forcebound. Now, even while staying in guard range and having full heals pumping on them, they still either die or kill their own tank through guard damage.

 

The only thing they lost was roll self heal (which isn't important in group ranked), a choice between ballistic shield and holotraverse (where the obvious choice is ballistic in group ranked), and OG evasion (which I guess you can argue is a big deal).

Thanks for defeating your own argument. Choosing between ballistic shield and phase walk is a massive nerf or snipers. That means the squishiest ranged class in the game has no more reset/immunity button, while pretty much every other ranged class still has one. Sorcs have strong DR and barrier, commandos have energy shield and reflect. I highly disagree about the roll heal. 10% every 20 seconds + additional healing while your in cover adds up to a lot when your taking pressure off your healer.

 

Sniper's are absolutely viable in group ranked. Not the best, but viable. In fact engi is one of the strongest burst specs you can bring in group ranked.

Engi is all burst no sustain, and when they blow their load they have to wait like 20 seconds before they can do it again. A lightning sorc can do everything an engi sniper does, but better while also having higher dr and mobility. Too be honest, the only reason a team should lose to engi sniper is because of a bad tank. The set up for engi's burst is so long and predictable, that every burst window should be easily guarded.

Edited by Llacertus
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