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New expansion killing/limiting Solo players??


Crollore

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New expansion seems to kill playability for solo players. I’ve played a lot of MMOs (started in late 90s) and other than being a Star Wars fan, being able to play the game as a solo player is a really big deal for me. SWTOR is the only game I’ve found you do not need to group or do some insane crafting to get to max level. The new expansion seems to be placing more limits on the solo player. Does it seem like that to other players? Edited by Crollore
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How are they limiting solo play?

 

The argument some are making is that by gating 'top tier' gear behind Ops, they're forcing players to group up for content or be stuck with lower grade gear, and that the increase to the Personal Conquest goal will render Altaholics unable to play as many alts and still achieve Conquest on each of them per week.

 

 

I don't feel that it's 'killing' or 'limiting' me as a solo player; I don't run Ops, so I don't need top tier Op gear to play with. Okay, I am an Alt-aholic, but so I only achieve Conquest on fifteen or twenty alts a week instead of thirty-four or forty-six, it won't break me from enjoying the game. (Irony here; Conquest, IIRC, was originally implimented as GROUP content anyway, for Fleets, and the Solo/Personal Conquest options added later because some people felt that it wasn't fair that Fleets were getting all of the benefits from the Conquest system...)

 

And 'Vertical Gear Progression'? No where does it say that a person HAS to run a specific kind of content. So you run a couple Flashpoints and get gear from then, it's not like the Devs are going to be holding a blaster to your head and saying "Youse better keep running Flashpoints cause dat's all the gear youse getting now."; nope, you can put that gear aside, sell it, deconstruct it or whatever and go right back to running Conquest or Ops or PVP or whatever and getting your gear from there.

Edited by turbomagnus
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How are they limiting solo play?

 

To me the removal of the renown system and gutting of the conquest system seems like they have invalidated/removed the vast majority of content in the game. Where previously ANYTHING I did contributed to my advancement, now only a couple things do, and only one of those things actually leads to the peak.

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Having seen some of the adjusted values for conquest points on the PTS, solo players are going to have to do more things for less rewards. The gsf play 5 games on X ship I used to do is having its points cut to below a quarter of what it was (at least on the final PTS stage, subject to change).

 

The renown system honestly didn't really do anything anyway for solo players, or any players for that matter. Every level you get 1 or 2 random items that likely aren't 306 rating or the thing you want. But, it was nice having something. That was the one saving grace of galactic command, not the gearing side, but the extra little things it gave you. Having renown levels that give new currency + tech frags and companion gifts for e.g. would have been awesome - but instead the system is being removed for no real reason.

 

To be fair, playing through dailies and weeklies will give you currencies that are used to upgrade your gear. So if anything certain content is getting a boost in terms of rewards. However, the fact that master mode operation players can get better statted gear for playing a less varied amount of content is stupid to me.

 

I don't agree with the sentiment that players don't need the best gear if they don't play the best content. Players enjoy progressing their character and gaining power over time, they like outlevelling and outscaling content. If anything, outscaling content with gear designed for hard mode operations will actually convince players to want to play those modes. Now, you play solo, hit a cap and then need to level an entirely new gear track to start doing hard to master mode operations. The new system almost forces players to only enjoy one type of content, otherwise they have to contend with 3 or 4 completely different reward tracks that ultimately should be a single thing that scales over time.

 

Gearing alts is going to be a lot harder in 7.0 it seems due to the reduction in the amount of gear you get, despite the fact that the devs specifically stated they don't want to punish players for having alts and want people to have alts (hence only 2 combat styles per character instead of more like ff14).

 

Maybe it will be better at launch and I hope our worries are unfounded, but I've lost a lot of hype for 7.0.

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Yeah. At least for me. Unless you can put gear in loadouts, it's definitely going to kill my alt playing.

 

You can put gear in loadouts but we still haven't been told if there is going to be a shared gear inventory that lets you pull gear from one character to another etc. At this stage it doesn't seem like there is, which makes gearing alts and sharing gear really annoying.

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According to BioWare, my monthly sub is worth less than a raider's. So I'm taking my money elsewhere.

 

Group players said the same thing for years now. You cant please everyone so while they might lose you they will get group players instead.

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The renown system honestly didn't really do anything anyway for solo players, or any players for that matter. Every level you get 1 or 2 random items that likely aren't 306 rating or the thing you want. But, it was nice having something. That was the one saving grace of galactic command, not the gearing side, but the extra little things it gave you. Having renown levels that give new currency + tech frags and companion gifts for e.g. would have been awesome - but instead the system is being removed for no real reason.

 

It doesn't do much, but it is psychological. The renown system lets me know that anything I do, regardless or where, has a chance, albeit very small, to contribute to my gearing. It's usually junk in a box, but if I got it from killing mooks on Korriban at lvl 75 I shouldn't be super upset about that.

 

Renown and conquest to me are a unified system that ensures all of the content of the game at any point in a characters progression is worth investigating. They provide a layer of infinite replay ability that is being excised and replaced with nothing, even if that layer is mostly in ones perception. +I just like seeing exp numbers rolling in and levels increasing, makes me feel like the game isn't over...and now those things are gone too.

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Group players said the same thing for years now. You cant please everyone so while they might lose you they will get group players instead.

 

Have you got proof that all these group players will come back when all BioWare is adding for them at launch is one flash point. The operation won’t even be added till 7.1 at least. So why would a large amount of group players come back before more group content is added?

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Have you got proof that all these group players will come back when all BioWare is adding for them at launch is one flash point. The operation won’t even be added till 7.1 at least. So why would a large amount of group players come back before more group content is added?

 

There are a ton of flashpoints and operations that where added since SWTOR started favoring solo players more so people that left round that time got a lot of content.

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Having seen some of the adjusted values for conquest points on the PTS, solo players are going to have to do more things for less rewards. The gsf play 5 games on X ship I used to do is having its points cut to below a quarter of what it was (at least on the final PTS stage, subject to change).

 

The renown system honestly didn't really do anything anyway for solo players, or any players for that matter. Every level you get 1 or 2 random items that likely aren't 306 rating or the thing you want. But, it was nice having something. That was the one saving grace of galactic command, not the gearing side, but the extra little things it gave you. Having renown levels that give new currency + tech frags and companion gifts for e.g. would have been awesome - but instead the system is being removed for no real reason.

 

To be fair, playing through dailies and weeklies will give you currencies that are used to upgrade your gear. So if anything certain content is getting a boost in terms of rewards. However, the fact that master mode operation players can get better statted gear for playing a less varied amount of content is stupid to me.

 

I don't agree with the sentiment that players don't need the best gear if they don't play the best content. Players enjoy progressing their character and gaining power over time, they like outlevelling and outscaling content. If anything, outscaling content with gear designed for hard mode operations will actually convince players to want to play those modes. Now, you play solo, hit a cap and then need to level an entirely new gear track to start doing hard to master mode operations. The new system almost forces players to only enjoy one type of content, otherwise they have to contend with 3 or 4 completely different reward tracks that ultimately should be a single thing that scales over time.

 

Gearing alts is going to be a lot harder in 7.0 it seems due to the reduction in the amount of gear you get, despite the fact that the devs specifically stated they don't want to punish players for having alts and want people to have alts (hence only 2 combat styles per character instead of more like ff14).

 

Maybe it will be better at launch and I hope our worries are unfounded, but I've lost a lot of hype for 7.0.

 

The conquest points are the same on PTS as they are on Live. You just needed to activate your SH's on the PTS to get the 150% bonus like you had on live to notice. The only thing that is being removed is the Renown rank up. This is obviously being removed since the renown system no longer exists.

 

Edit: also something to consider. Every planet has a stat cap on Master, Power, Endurance, Accuracy, Critical, and Alacrity in 7.0, so unless your on the new level 80 planet Manaan, the stats on your gear will not matter at all. I went to Yavin 4 to check out the dailies and I went from 1500 alacrity in my gear down to 100, and the master/power/endurance were so low it wouldn't matter what gear your character had on.

Edited by Toraak
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You can put gear in loadouts but we still haven't been told if there is going to be a shared gear inventory that lets you pull gear from one character to another etc. At this stage it doesn't seem like there is, which makes gearing alts and sharing gear really annoying.

 

Annoying? More like... horrible. Someone did the math in another post, with the weekly cap, it takes 6 weeks to gear up one character.

If I have to do that for everyone of my characters, it's going to take me 4 years.

 

I'm still waiting to see if we're going to get ANY reward for the 4th character doing CQ, if we don't, well, I'd better find another game to play because doing CQ on 3 characters and just the GS weeklies isn't going to keep me busy very long.

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The argument some are making is that by gating 'top tier' gear behind Ops, they're forcing players to group up for content or be stuck with lower grade gear, .

There is absolutely zero a solo player would encounter in this game requiring top tier gear. Most players can get by in PvE content in green gear just fine.

 

The only people who truly "need" top-tier gear are the PvP types, and then, only for the psychological kick in the head for thinking they're the uberist of the uber.

 

And if you sit there and say that you need top-end gear for nightmare ops, well guess what, at that point, you're not soloing.

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Personally, as a solo player, I don't really care whether the highest ilevel gear is available to me or not. I'm not saying this to invalidate anyone else's concerns or playstyle, just as an example that some of us do in fact feel that getting the best gear is uneccessary for solo play. As far as I can tell without trying it, the new gearing system does sound worse than the current one, but it's not really that big a deal to me either way.

 

What is a big deal to me is the potential removal of the planetary leveling gear (requisitioned, toxic, unleashed, &c). Bioware cares so little about my opinion and and my playstyle, which includes lots of outfit-making among other things, that they haven't even bothered to announce whether or not that is really happening.

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Group players said the same thing for years now. You cant please everyone so while they might lose you they will get group players instead.

 

This ship has sailed years ago. They will lose a portion of people who got used to how things were over the last five years and will not get any substantial amount of new players.

Not to mention Master Ops players are a small fraction of group players. Building entire system around subsection of a subsection of their base is not a wise decision and if I was the person responsible for making it I would already be thinking about excuses to give the suits when they start asking about decreasing numbers.

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It doesn't do much, but it is psychological...

 

...+I just like seeing exp numbers rolling in and levels increasing, makes me feel like the game isn't over...and now those things are gone too.

 

I agree, I do enjoy seeing my levels keep going up every now and then. It gives you a sense of progression and achievement even if the rewards aren't intrinsically valuable.

 

 

Annoying? More like... horrible. Someone did the math in another post, with the weekly cap, it takes 6 weeks to gear up one character.

If I have to do that for everyone of my characters, it's going to take me 4 years.

 

I'm still waiting to see if we're going to get ANY reward for the 4th character doing CQ, if we don't, well, I'd better find another game to play because doing CQ on 3 characters and just the GS weeklies isn't going to keep me busy very long.

 

Yeah this combined with the fact that I don't have as much time as I had during 6.0, I don't see myself playing on many alts at all for gearing purposes. Maybe a few for imp and a couple for rep to cover my favourite characters and all the group roles. Only other reason I'd play alts is to do some casual story content, nothing end game.

 

 

Personally, as a solo player, I don't really care whether the highest ilevel gear is available to me or not. I'm not saying this to invalidate anyone else's concerns or playstyle, just as an example that some of us do in fact feel that getting the best gear is uneccessary for solo play. As far as I can tell without trying it, the new gearing system does sound worse than the current one, but it's not really that big a deal to me either way.

 

What is a big deal to me is the potential removal of the planetary leveling gear (requisitioned, toxic, unleashed, &c). Bioware cares so little about my opinion and and my playstyle, which includes lots of outfit-making among other things, that they haven't even bothered to announce whether or not that is really happening.

 

That's a fine opinion to have, but it is frustrating that the "play your way" to get better gear philosophy is being removed from all players just to make a tiny section of the community feel more validated for their playstyle. It's not as if the gearing system is even getting easier, it's getting more complicated with different tiers for different content that require different things to upgrade.

 

I also completely agree on the negative aspect of removing planetary levelling gear. I really like quite a lot of that gear for outfit purposes. My hope (crossing several fingers and toes) is that with the removal of end game mods for most types of gear, the current planetary modification vendors could be replaced with gear vendors that provide the current levelling gear for the appropriate planet / level bracket.

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New expansion seems to kill playability for solo players. I’ve played a lot of MMOs (started in late 90s) and other than being a Star Wars fan, being able to play the game as a solo player is a really big deal for me. SWTOR is the only game I’ve found you do not need to group or do some insane crafting to get to max level. The new expansion seems to be placing more limits on the solo player. Does it seem like that to other players?

 

The short answer is yes, the new expansion will absolutely limit solo players.

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There is absolutely zero a solo player would encounter in this game requiring top tier gear. Most players can get by in PvE content in green gear just fine.

 

The only people who truly "need" top-tier gear are the PvP types, and then, only for the psychological kick in the head for thinking they're the uberist of the uber.

 

Some of the MM chapters may not be doable for some classes without HM Ops equivalent gear, and for some specs, may be rough even with NiM equivalent gear fully kitted out.

 

Of course, if you're trying to take a healer through the Geno Haradan encounter in chapter 2 of KotET, it's really an opt-in of not strictly intended play (cause everybody's supposed to do all solo play in DPS spec after all), so it's not the end of the world if it becomes effectively out of reach (ditto for soloing FPs).

 

PvP doesn't require "best" gear or even gear at all. What it requires is that for any person willing to put in X amount of play hours (where X is whatever the devs think is reasonable, provided it's within the attention span of a critical mass of players), they can get to a gearing level where additional play time does not provide additional gear advantage, and therefore everyone at the gear plateau can compete on a combination of player skill and selecting the most advantageous combat style out of a selection of combat styles that aren't nearly as well balanced as you'd want if SWTOR were a dedicated PvP game.

 

The motto of 7.0 is not anything about discriminating about any particular style of player though, it's best summed up as:

 

"We have no real content for you, so embrace the grind!"

 

Reputation faction for this expac should probably be called the, "Gear Millers and Grindstone Manufacturers Association"

 

Legendary reward: "Millstone Around My Neck," emote.:p

 

Even so, it's a fairly mild increase, nowhere near what grind was like in 1.0 and 2.0. It just feels bad because we're coming off of a 4 expansion streak of QoL improvements built around reducing grind.

Edited by Ramalina
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That's a fine opinion to have, but it is frustrating that the "play your way" to get better gear philosophy is being removed from all players just to make a tiny section of the community feel more validated for their playstyle. It's not as if the gearing system is even getting easier, it's getting more complicated with different tiers for different content that require different things to upgrade.

 

I also completely agree on the negative aspect of removing planetary levelling gear. I really like quite a lot of that gear for outfit purposes. My hope (crossing several fingers and toes) is that with the removal of end game mods for most types of gear, the current planetary modification vendors could be replaced with gear vendors that provide the current levelling gear for the appropriate planet / level bracket.

I do understand why people are unhappy with it, and you're right, it's totally uneccessary. What will be awkward for me is that GSF apparently awards PVP gear - I do GSF but not PVP, so I'll probably end up having high ilevel but useless-to-me PVP gear.

 

There are so many different planetary outfits that it will be a huge loss if they are taken out of the game completely. I really hope they do as you suggest and add them to planetary vendors.

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If it weren't for them killing weeklies (which is just absolutely stupid), I wouldn't really care.

 

As a solo player, the new changes amount to:

 

On the ones that I still haven't repped out, being forced to complete the whole weekly in one sitting. Fortunately, I only have one more upcoming toon that this is a problem on and even then, it's really only ones like the GSI weekly.

 

Never touching GSF again.

 

Everything else just means that I won't have max gear but, except for that one upcoming toon, that only really matters for FPs like Hammer Station. The rest have a solo mode. If my lack of gear focus means that I just don't play group FPs or uprisings anymore, so be it.

 

So much for "Play it your way" All this means is that my motivation to dabble in group content is removed because it will now be "Commit or Die" when it comes to group content.

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About the whole "you don't need max gear to solo" argument, I'd just say that you need something for get solo players to keep playing. And that's why I really don't understand where they are going with this...

 

- they are killing weeklies by resetting them every day (and dailies as well, forcing us to finish them in one go if we want ANY reward). So anyone who doesn't have time to finish those in one week/day will just not bother... At least now we can play at our own pace and get rewards for it...

 

- limiting how much we can improve our gear just means we'll be done playing faster

 

- at least with 6.0, when I was done with gear/story with one character, I could play another and still get rewards. And now they're nerfing that by putting weekly limits to legacies. There's literally no point in making alts anymore as it looks like we might get absolutely no rewards to do so after our 3rd CQ

 

- and yeah... extremely short story update. That's probably the worst of all...

Edited by Pricia
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