Jump to content

Fix ALL Flashpoints for 7.0


Recommended Posts

It gets so old skipping 75% + of all the flashpoints in this game and then getting treated poorly by groups for not being good at platforming etc...

It is a HORRIBLE group experience. This could be easily fixed by increasing the aggro range of most mobs and putting in some invisible walls in spots. There is no reason players should be berated for not skipping or not knowing how to skip flashpoints. This especially is a horrible experience for newer players and creates a very toxic environment. This is not how flashpoints were intended to be done and it hurts the overall experience just so people can effectively farm things faster than they were ever intended to be run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 79
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

People are gonna find ways to skip anyhow, no use in devoting dev time to closing up gaps that do not screw anything else up. Play with guildies or make some friends, this is a non-issue once you get comfortable. This or light everything on fire and aggro everything under the sun then claim to not know how to skip :rak_03:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

By closing up those gaps and increasing aggro range, people wouldnt be able to cheese them - that would be the point... The dev time required would be very minor and for new player experience would be major; This doesn't just peeve me, it is a horrible way for new players to experience the flashpoints - saying do it with a guild is a bad first impression and hardly a solution to something that effects everything to even how fast people can progress multiple characters through conquest.. Things are out of wack in this game because of things like this, where people can rush through the flashpoints faster than they were ever intended to be ran and that people are just expected to know how to because its the meta or that its group finder. It IS a problem - and one that has been in the game for far too long. Edited by Phaedruss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see where you are coming from, on the other hand there are a LOT of extra mobs in flashpoints, and I don't think it was ever intended to kill everything in them. There just isn't any real reward for it.

 

Platforming and weird jumps to get around things, that could be done away with. Some fp it takes longer for players do get that jump (aka: that jump in Athiss or whatever players are trying to do SoE) then to just kill the mobs in your way.

 

Just running on one side to avoid extra mobs is fine though. Nothing fancy needed by newer players except to follow the group. Some flashpoints there are entire rooms full of mobs that you never need to go into.

 

What would also help stop the speed runners is some sort of reward (beyond just gear) for doing bonus bosses. Most of the bonus bosses (hammer's bonus for example) require a high kill count to spawn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with you 100%. I'm not pushing for people to have to full clear a flashpoint :p Right now 90% of the cheesing of flashpoints is just running right past mobs with REALLY crap aggro range. You legit just run past them!

 

Also LOVE the bonus boss idea. That would be a good change for the overall experience as well!

Edited by Phaedruss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A certain amount of 'skipping' is baked into the flashpoints. It can be argued, particularly by 'light side' characters, that unnecessarily killing mobs is 'wrong' in a moral sense.

To me there is a balance between mobs that should be avoided and ones that people spend too much effort skipping.

 

Doing 'full clears' (killing everything, doing every bonus) can be fun occasionally, but if you want to do that you need to either solo the FP or form a group of friends and/or guildmates. Expecting PUGs through GF to do that is not reasonable.

 

It can also be pointed out that, given the location of some mobs, and the arrangement of nearby graphic elements, some of the 'skipping' has been built into the very design of the FP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A certain amount of 'skipping' is baked into the flashpoints. It can be argued, particularly by 'light side' characters, that unnecessarily killing mobs is 'wrong' in a moral sense.

To me there is a balance between mobs that should be avoided and ones that people spend too much effort skipping.

 

Doing 'full clears' (killing everything, doing every bonus) can be fun occasionally, but if you want to do that you need to either solo the FP or form a group of friends and/or guildmates. Expecting PUGs through GF to do that is not reasonable.

 

It can also be pointed out that, given the location of some mobs, and the arrangement of nearby graphic elements, some of the 'skipping' has been built into the very design of the FP.

 

What? In no way is this accurate. In any other MMO these would be exploits that would be horded by players, because once leaked they would be patched as fast as possible. In Swtor this is the meta... In NO way is any of this intended - years ago this is not how flashpoints were done.

Also this entire argument of 'if you wanna do it a certain way, you need to do with a formed group and in SM' - is complete crap. It's exactly the opposite - group finder isn't supposed to be skip content and vote to kick those that don't. THIS is very toxic. If this was intended, then why even have trash mobs in a flashpoint? Why not just remove them all and the only time spent in a flashpoint is running down empty corridors from boss to boss?

I don't think it can even be argued, except through your pacifist roleplay, that this is working as intended...

Edited by Phaedruss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with many of the points and call-outs above but would like to promote another.

 

They should adjust instances where the final boss (or any of the main bosses) can be engaged without the rest of the team there, or worse getting locked out (e.g., Red Reaper, Battle of Rishi, Czerka Corporate Labs). I like what they did in Spirit of Vengeance - they have a terminal check-in point with a ray shield in place (no cut scene, just everyone clicks to go forward), and when they do the shield drops.

 

This would encourage fast runners to maintain more of a group pace as they approach bosses, or at least prevent them from making others slow-run to the encounter or getting locked out. I know this will not apply in optional boss encounters, and some may be difficult to add this feature, but seems like the benefits it would yield to newer players is greater than the dev efforts needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What? In no way is this accurate. In any other MMO these would be exploits that would be horded by players, because once leaked they would be patched as fast as possible. In Swtor this is the meta... In NO way is any of this intended - years ago this is not how flashpoints were done.

Also this entire argument of 'if you wanna do it a certain way, you need to do with a formed group and in SM' - is complete crap. It's exactly the opposite - group finder isn't supposed to be skip content and vote to kick those that don't. THIS is very toxic. If this was intended, then why even have trash mobs in a flashpoint? Why not just remove them all and the only time spent in a flashpoint is running down empty corridors from boss to boss?

I don't think it can even be argued, except through your pacifist roleplay, that this is working as intended...

 

Did you play any other MMO? Last 2 I played did not require you to clear whole dungeons, some mobs groups and/or extra bosses could be skipped if you wanted to, so please explain it to me how are those 'exploits'.

 

Oh yes, other group members need to respect your choice of doing everything. I do bonus bosses a lot so I know what I'm talking about, and only if: 1. I preform with other players who also want to do them or 2. ask the group when I enter the phase and nobody objects to it. Because, you know, I'm not playing alone.

 

No offence buddy, but you need to learn how to be considerate of other people's time in a game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you play any other MMO? Last 2 I played did not require you to clear whole dungeons, some mobs groups and/or extra bosses could be skipped if you wanted to, so please explain it to me how are those 'exploits'.

 

Oh yes, other group members need to respect your choice of doing everything. I do bonus bosses a lot so I know what I'm talking about, and only if: 1. I preform with other players who also want to do them or 2. ask the group when I enter the phase and nobody objects to it. Because, you know, I'm not playing alone.

 

No offence buddy, but you need to learn how to be considerate of other people's time in a game.

 

No offence buddy, but nowhere did I claim that people should be forced to full clear flashpoints, I actually said this wasnt the case...

This effects the game in so many ways. People mainly only run a couple of flashpoints (hammer station anyone?) to increase their reward while spending less time on it. It makes it too easy to progress conquest on 30 or more characters, it ruins the player experience, etc...

If you're going to tell me that running on walls or rails to skip fights isnt exploitative than idk what to tell you, cause it is :p

Again this arguement of 'dont do group finder if you dont like it' is crap. Its not player friendly, and especially not new player friendly. Exploits being the meta for cheesing flashpoints is BAD for the overall health of the game, period. *Edit - Especially when the meta flashpoints are introductory flashpoints and are the some of the first that new players get to experience. Their first impressions are toxic group environments where endgame players are pushing new players through as fast as possible or leaving them behind/kicking them.

Edited by Phaedruss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No offence buddy, but you need to learn how to be considerate of other people's time in a game.

 

So racing through the dungeon (often through intricate routes a new player can't be expected to just know) and leaving new players behind is being considerate?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also want to point out that they tried making instances that were faster to complete than flashpoints. Uprisings, but because of how easy it is to cheese flashpoints they have become irrelevant and no one does them. So this argument of being considerate of peoples time is null. There are avenues for you to run stuff that goes fast, you just want to keep broken flashpoints because its brokenly faster! (aka exploited)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BioWare needs to take a hard look at trash mobs in general. It is ridiculous that there are so many players that just want to ignore such a gigantic portion of this game’s combat content. This has been an issue almost everywhere in the game for a very long time.

Link: https://vulkk.com/2021/08/22/swtor-game-designer-director-explains-combat-styles/

 

Found a quote from Endonae talking about this a little. His point was with stealth classes, and how they will effect the game with Combat Styles, but still applies here. Especially with some flashpoints that allow you to stealth through to bosses while the rest of the of the group waits at the start, and then kill themselves to spawn at a checkpoint deep into the flashpoint. (Another exploit).

This is 'ridiculous' and feeds into other problems in the game more than others admit or know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So essentially what your saying OP is that everyone else should run FPs your way not the way they prefer to run them. Got it.

 

Not at all...

I'm saying that most flashpoints are fundamentally broken, this isn't an argument of preferred ways to run flashpoints when the methods for completing them fast are using exploits. This has nothing to do with preference - this is broken content.

When you exploit flashpoints you break a lot of things, it can definitely be argued that some of the new gearing changes, especially in regards to the new forced weekly rotation for flashpoints, is part of the problem they are trying to fix and one of the reasons many people think the 6.0 gearing failed - because it was just endgame players farming Hammer Station over and over again. Instead of fixing the exploits though, they are just gonna try to force you to run different flashpoints... all a side effect of broken flashpoints being exploited for far too long. This band aid solution wont fix the problem though and people will still abuse these flashpoints until they are actually fixed; this will still contribute to issues in the game when people can finish them in 10min or less - they will still be heavily exploited.

Edited by Phaedruss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This reminds of the people you see driving over the jiggle-bumps in an empty parking lot. I guess driving around them would be an 'exploit'. 😂😂😂

 

Again, your logic is very flawed. A better comparison would be: You found a road that police don't patrol and speed down it to get to your destination at a dangerous pace. This puts other people at danger just so you can get there faster. Once more people learn about this road it becomes congested with a ton of people going heavily over the speed limit to a point that the city notices that a simple back road has the traffic of a highway and they shut that road down and force you onto another road. When all they need to do to fix the problem is put some patrolman on that road and start enforcing the speed limit. Once people are not aloud to speed on that road, they will go back to the highway to get to their destination because they wont be able to exploit that back road anymore. *side note - this back road is also used for new driver training xD

 

These are exploits, whether you admit it or not.

Edited by Phaedruss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not at all...

I'm saying that most flashpoints are fundamentally broken, this isn't an argument of preferred ways to run flashpoints when the methods for completing them fast are using exploits. This has nothing to do with preference - this is broken content.

When you exploit flashpoints you break a lot of things, it can definitely be argued that some of the new gearing changes, especially in regards to the new forced weekly rotation for flashpoints, is part of the problem they are trying to fix and one of the reasons many people think the 6.0 gearing failed - because it was just endgame players farming Hammer Station over and over again. Instead of fixing the exploits though, they are just gonna try to force you to run different flashpoints... all a side effect of broken flashpoints being exploited for far too long. This band aid solution wont fix the problem though and people will still abuse these flashpoints until they are actually fixed; this will still contribute to issues in the game when people can finish them in 10min or less - they will still be heavily exploited.

 

like I said. You are not happy running the FPs as the are currently set up so you want them all to be changed so everyone has to run them as you feel they ought to be run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

like I said. You are not happy running the FPs as the are currently set up so you want them all to be changed so everyone has to run them as you feel they ought to be run.

 

Like I've said, it can't be argued that these are not broken... they are. This is you wanting to run things faster than they were ever intended to be ran and not wanting these flashpoints fixed. Aka you like broken things. I get it...

That doesn't mean broken flashpoints should stay broken.

 

It's not about how I think they should be run, its about not allowing exploits to ruin the content of the game. The way they are currently set up was not intentional just because BW hasn't bothered to fix them.

Edited by Phaedruss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I've said, it can't be argued that these are not broken... they are. This is you wanting to run things faster than they were ever intended to be ran and not wanting these flashpoints fixed. Aka you like broken things. I get it...

That doesn't mean broken flashpoints should stay broken.

 

It's not about how I think they should be run, its about not allowing exploits to ruin the content of the game. The way they are currently set up was not intentional just because BW hasn't bothered to fix them.

 

it can be argued. They aren’t broken, they work just fine. Those who wish to skip certain mobs can if the perform the necessary actions to do so. Those who don’t wish to skip them don’t have to. Just because you don’t wish for any mobs to be skippable doesn’t mean the FP is broken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Revenaught

"That's just like, your opinion maaaaan"

*proceeeds to give own opinion

 

State the obvious more? Do you understand how discussion works at all?

 

Obviously participants here are going to give their opinion (and hopefully some supporting evidence to back it up). This isn't a math problem with a definitive correct answer.

 

edit: pretty sure you stealth edited out my criticism...

Edited by Ulrah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

it can be argued. They aren’t broken, they work just fine. Those who wish to skip certain mobs can if the perform the necessary actions to do so. Those who don’t wish to skip them don’t have to. Just because you don’t wish for any mobs to be skippable doesn’t mean the FP is broken.

 

So stealthing through a flashpoint to have your team kill themselves once at a checkpoint is not an exploit?

Jumping on ledges that were not supposed to be jumped on (half the time players just get stuck on them) is not an exploit?

Glitching behind invisible walls to get behind the map is not an exploit?

Please explain how any of these are intended mechanics that don't give an unfair advantage towards gearing and conquest progression over how they are supposed to be run...

 

*edit - One of the main issue here, is something you are an extremely good example of: These exploits become the meta if not fixed and players start to think they are entitled to keep using the exploits - that they are part of the game.

Edited by Phaedruss
Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...