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Brand new player desperately seeking some advice for performance


jfxmurphy

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Hi there,

 

I recently downloaded SWTOR eager to try it out (in particular, the PvP warzones). I come from a PvP background, having spent last few years pushing high ratings in WoW 3s and, before that, doing lots of open PvP in Warhammer Online.

 

I installed SWTOR and have been doing the first few quests without issue. Graphics on high, 144hz, 200 max fps [though I use NVIDIA frame limiter to make it 140 fps], and no AA stuff.

 

Despite relative smooth running, I did however notice some microfreezes: whenever I go through party frames quickly, my FPS drops, and if I open certain UI elements while moving (like the Guild tab), I'll have freezes, too.

 

None of this prepared me for my shock in Warzones: the microstutters and fps drops were quite bad. FPS dropping to around 30/40 wasn't as bad as the microstutters, which just made the game unplayable.

 

I have spent the better part of 2 days going through topics pertaining to this: I've toyed around with my process affinities, ensured 'high performance' for power mode is enabled, have ensured 'High' is set to the processes on task manager - but the microstutters persist. I have 21gb free on my SSD, so it should be enough, surely!

 

I am DESPERATE to sort this out as PvP is my main reason for coming here (need a change of scene from WoW, and I love Star Wars). Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am on the verge of just giving up. Is it my settings? Is it my CPU? Should I upgrade/change anything?

 

My pc rig is as follows:

* Intel® Core i5-9400F CPU @ 2.90GHz 2.90 GHz. 6 cores.

* 16.0 GB RAM (15.9 GB usable)

 

Ingame settings:

* VSYNC off [i use NVIDIA gsync]

* FPS Max 200

* Graphics are all high

* Shadows off completely

* Have tried with nameplate scaling both off and on - same results

* 1920x1080 resolution

* Fullscreen

 

Thank you!

Edited by jfxmurphy
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That CPU looks a bit slow. I mean, yes, it's a 9th generation processor, but its nominal speed is only 2.9GHz, and the automatic turbo won't work well because despite repeated claims to the contrary, SWTOR *is* multithreaded.

 

The problem is that SWTOR's use of CPU versus GPU for certain things is either incorrectly balanced (too much on the CPU) or inefficient (what's on the main CPU uses more CPU than it should). That means that your CPU is a big bottleneck. A different CPU with a higher base clock would give better results.

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Thanks man.

 

I've checked my CPU speed and when turbo boosted, it's at 3.9GHz. is this not enough?

Maybe, but the turbo boost is dependent on there being a *very* small number of cores active, like one or maybe two. Your CPU doesn't have hyperthreading(1), so each core can only run one thread, and SWTOR runs (in total) two or maybe three threads at any one moment.

 

(1) The weirdly named Ark site of Intel says so. (ark.intel.com)

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I concur that the base clock on that CPU may be a bit low, but 30-40 fps in PvP** should be playable, if it's smooth-ish.

It may be the micro stutter that makes it unplayable.

Unfortunately, I don't know what to do about the micro-stutter, atm. It may be a matter of how fast the processor can turbo. 🤔

 

Perhaps upgrading to a faster (socket compatible) CPU such as an i5-9600(K/F), 9700 or 9800, would help.

 

Try running in Windowed (fullscreen) instead of just "Fullscreen".

 

Other than that, you can try Googling "microstutter".

 

Btw, AMD processor are said to have less microstutter, but that would involve a new motherboard as well as CPU.

 

** Also btw, SWTOR's rusty old engine requires a fast CPU core speed. FPS drops in Warzones and OPs is a known issue. SWTOR works best with a base clock speed of 4+ GHz.

My i5-6600 fps drops quite low in PvP and OPs, often to less than 30 fps, but I don't seem to experience microstutter. Perhaps that's because of the relatively narrow range between base clock (3.3GHz) and turbo (3.9GHz).

Edited by JediQuaker
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Yeah man I don't mind the 30-40fps so much; it's the microstutters that are killing the experience.

 

They occur when clicking through group members' frames quickly, tab targetting quickly, or opening UI elements quickly while running [guild window, inventory, etc].

 

I'm thinking of getting an i9-9900k - do you think this would help?

Edited by jfxmurphy
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if memory serves, swtor is dual threaded as in it literally only utilizes up to two threads at any given time. any modern consumer CPU is going to hyperthreaded, so swtor should not utilize more than a single core. while having a high clock speed is handy, the capabilities of your gpu are going to be more significant in terms of perfornce of the swtor client, especially if you're playing on high graphical settings. tbh, i've played swtor on probably nearly a dozen high end laptops and desktops over the years and even if you have a very high end gpu, such as a 2070/3070-2080/3080 playing swtor on high setting in warzones with all the people and animations it tends to lag. many of us learned that is simply not feasible to run swtor on high setting at least not while pvping even if you have a super computer. this was very evident especially when ossus came out and we had to have the 24 man ops groups to kill the world bosses for gear in which everyones clients were constantly crashing, it really doesn't matter how nice your system is. if you dont want to lag in pvp you're going to have to change your graphics settings to low or very low and turn off all the extra crap. if you want the game to look decent and you have a very high end system you could probably get away with setting it at medium and turning off the extra graphical features. but i doubt you will ever get it to perform well on high or very high settings, regardless of how high end your system is.
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I'm thinking of getting an i9-9900k - do you think this would help?

Yes, that would help. But make sure your current motherboard can handle the extra power requirements. (Check the CPU support list, if you can find one for it.)

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if memory serves,

Memory does not serve.

swtor is dual threaded as in it literally only utilizes up to two threads at any given time.

There's at least three or four. I can easily see slightly over 20% utilisation *just* by SWTOR's processes, on an eight-by-two (eight cores with hyperthreads) i7(1), which says (at 6.25% for a maxed-out thread) more than three cores. EDIT: oops, more than three *threads*.

any modern consumer CPU is going to hyperthreaded,

Consulting the Ark page for OP's CPU (a 9th Gen i5, so fairly modern) you'll see it has 6 threads across 6 cores == no hyperthreading. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/190883/intel-core-i5-9400f-processor-9m-cache-up-to-4-10-ghz.html

so swtor should not utilize more than a single core. while having a high clock speed is handy, the capabilities of your gpu are going to be more significant in terms of perfornce of the swtor client, especially if you're playing on high graphical settings.

SWTOR is notorious for performing badly in Warzones and 16-man Ops even on machines with top-tier GPUs, because there's something wrong with its use of main CPU computing resources.

tbh, i've played swtor on probably nearly a dozen high end laptops and desktops over the years and even if you have a very high end gpu, such as a 2070/3070-2080/3080 playing swtor on high setting in warzones with all the people and animations it tends to lag.

Which is caused by inefficient processing on the main CPU.

 

post back here when it doesn't do anything so i can laugh

A singularly unhelpful reply.

 

(1) i7-7820X.

Edited by SteveTheCynic
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Memory does not serve.

 

memory did serve.

 

There's at least three or four. I can easily see slightly over 20% utilisation *just* by SWTOR's processes, on an eight-by-two (eight cores with hyperthreads) i7(1), which says (at 6.25% for a maxed-out thread) more than three cores. EDIT: oops, more than three *threads*.

 

this makes no difference. the point i was making is that swtor utilizes very little CPU resources. thus, whether it utilizes two or three threads is of no consequence since regardless of which it is swtor is still likely to run about as well on a duocore processor as it is on quadcore, hexacore, or octacore ^ processor.

 

Consulting the Ark page for OP's CPU (a 9th Gen i5, so fairly modern) you'll see it has 6 threads across 6 cores == no hyperthreading. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/190883/intel-core-i5-9400f-processor-9m-cache-up-to-4-10-ghz.html

 

you finally got me here, they should probably at least get a CPU that utilizes hyperthreading, that could help a bit. probably not much though as they already have more threads than swtor will use regardless of hyperthreading.

 

SWTOR is notorious for performing badly in Warzones and 16-man Ops even on machines with top-tier GPUs, because there's something wrong with its use of main CPU computing resources.

 

Which is caused by inefficient processing on the main CPU.

 

there is nothing wrong with it. they used a terribly cheap and inefficient engine to develop the game, it works exactly as intended; like garbage. the crashing you're describing in high volume groups (which is the same crashing i was describing, that was so prevalent in the ossus WB groups) has nothing to do with CPU utilization. it happens when there are a ton of animations on screen, more the engine can handle on high settings even if the user has a top-tier GPU. this is why if you simply lower your graphical settings it will mitigate the lag in large groups if not nullify it entirely.

 

A singularly unhelpful reply.

 

it may be unhelpful, but it's going to happen. or rather the OP will likely get a new CPU and still be lagging in large groups with high/very high graphic settings and they will then have to lower their settings to resolve the issue just as i stated anyway.

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memory did serve.

You said "up to two", which is clearly wrong, so no, memory did not serve.

this makes no difference. the point i was making is that swtor utilizes very little CPU resources.

Then you should have said exactly that, and I'd have agreed.

thus, whether it utilizes two or three threads is of no consequence since regardless of which it is swtor is still likely to run about as well on a duocore processor as it is on quadcore, hexacore, or octacore ^ processor.

It *will* run significantly worse on a duocore, even if it's a two-by-two, because all duocore processors are *old* or *slow* or both, and a two-by-one would be even worse as the **four** threads in SWTOR would only have **two** execution units to run on.

you finally got me here, they should probably at least get a CPU that utilizes hyperthreading, that could help a bit. probably not much though as they already have more threads than swtor will use regardless of hyperthreading.

Hyperthreading is irrelevant, as it's only a way to have more parallelism without adding more cores, and it is the parallelism (or lack thereof) that is important, not the mechanism. (And an eight-by-one with the same basic clock and architecture generation will be faster than a four-by-two because there will be less cache contention, except that Windows is pretty good at distributing low compute loads on a one-per core basis on hyperthreaded CPUs.)

there is nothing wrong with it. they used a terribly cheap and inefficient engine to develop the game, it works exactly as intended; like garbage.

Dunno, that sounds pretty wrong to me.

the crashing you're describing in high volume groups (which is the same crashing i was describing, that was so prevalent in the ossus WB groups) has nothing to do with CPU utilization. it happens when there are a ton of animations on screen, more the engine can handle on high settings even if the user has a top-tier GPU. this is why if you simply lower your graphical settings it will mitigate the lag in large groups if not nullify it entirely.

I wouldn't describe that as *crashing*, but whatever. (It's frame rate drops, not "boom, game crashed, back to desktop".) Frame rates are determined by three things:

* The ability of the main CPU to handle its tasks.

* The ability of the GPU to handle *its* tasks.

* Any hard limit the game / its engine has. (For ESO, that's about 100 fps, while for SWTOR it's around 200.)

 

Typically, one of the "soft" limits will "max out" before the other, and SWTOR's frame rate display (Ctrl+Shift+F) is red when the FPS is limited by the GPU, and green when it's limited by the main CPU. Which one maxes out at a particular graphics setting depends on the relative performance of the two components *and* the activity.

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It *will* run significantly worse on a duocore, even if it's a two-by-two, because all duocore processors are *old* or *slow* or both, and a two-by-one would be even worse as the **four** threads in SWTOR would only have **two** execution units to run on.

 

this is incorrect. let me try to reiterate my previous point more; if you took a bunch of processors that are all hyperthreaded and all have the same clock speed, let's say a duocore, a quadcore, and an octacore. then you booted up a system with each of them that was handling a single two threaded process they would all handle that process with roughly the same efficiency. in short, the only way a higher core/threaded processor will help in this event is if the OP is running a bunch of other processes while they are also playing swtor (more than their CPU can handle). as for the clock speed, this can be an issue, but the OP has a boosted 3.9 GHz processor. that's pretty good, i seriously doubt that his CPU is the issue.

 

Hyperthreading is irrelevant, as it's only a way to have more parallelism without adding more cores, and it is the parallelism (or lack thereof) that is important, not the mechanism. (And an eight-by-one with the same basic clock and architecture generation will be faster than a four-by-two because there will be less cache contention, except that Windows is pretty good at distributing low compute loads on a one-per core basis on hyperthreaded CPUs.)

 

this is true, and it's precisely what i've already been stating. except i didn't mention cache contention, which you already point out yourself is negligible.

 

I wouldn't describe that as *crashing*, but whatever. (It's frame rate drops, not "boom, game crashed, back to desktop".) Frame rates are determined by three things:

* The ability of the main CPU to handle its tasks.

* The ability of the GPU to handle *its* tasks.

* Any hard limit the game / its engine has. (For ESO, that's about 100 fps, while for SWTOR it's around 200.)

 

it's what happens when the systems resources are exhausted. if it's bad enough the client will crash. your list of primary factors for client lag is correct.

 

Typically, one of the "soft" limits will "max out" before the other, and SWTOR's frame rate display (Ctrl+Shift+F) is red when the FPS is limited by the GPU, and green when it's limited by the main CPU. Which one maxes out at a particular graphics setting depends on the relative performance of the two components *and* the activity.

 

i didn't know that about the FPS counter coloration. thanks.

 

Basically, Zerk is about as wrong as they can be.

 

SWTOR's fps drops in PvP and OPs is a direct function of the CPU. Period.

 

No need to keep going on about it though.

 

actually it is you who is as wrong as can be. even steve and i are on the same page about this. FPS drops in the SWTOR client are NOT indicative solely of the CPU - period.

 

as steve correctly points out;

Frame rates are determined by three things:

* The ability of the main CPU to handle its tasks.

* The ability of the GPU to handle *its* tasks.

* Any hard limit the game / its engine has. (For ESO, that's about 100 fps, while for SWTOR it's around 200.)

 

Is Red on the FPS Meter a signal of CPU or GPU bottleneck?

 

according to steve;

SWTOR's frame rate display (Ctrl+Shift+F) is red when the FPS is limited by the GPU, and green when it's limited by the main CPU.

 

if this is correct, it looks like i was right. your frame rate issues are likely GPU based.

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Did some warzones today and fps seems okay: some drops to 40, but remains around 60. The issue seems to be the mouse/slight input delay at times: for instance, mouse movement can get a bit slow when lots of people are fighting, and despite the frames being okay, it can just 'feel' a bit clunky when hitting abilities. Not sure how to explain it haha!
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I'm not sure how you can justify saying that you and I are on the same page. I have disagreed with almost everything you said.

 

i said specifically, that we were on the same page about that particular topic, not in general. you correctly stated that there are many factors that contribute to client lag. where as the previous poster was stating, incorrectly, that client lag only derives from insufficient CPU resources and nothing else! - period.

 

why even respond in this thread after two weeks and you've already posted in a dozen or more other threads in the same forum? besides, the issue is solved. i was correct in the first place and all the OP has to do to improve performance is lower their graphic settings. else, the OP would benefit more from upgrading their GPU rather than their CPU.

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I can tell you this is a really CPU intense game, I have a 10700k 5.2 GHz and this game made me find out my CPU wasn't stable, been playing different games for like 8 months never crashed, this game crashed my CPU. I do get microstutters or skipping when I play 1440 120hz with max settings, when I play 4k 120hz, or even 60 same thing. I get between 130 and 210 fps at 1440, and 50 to 140 4k.

 

Though gsync might have something to do with it not sure.

 

My computer is a 10700k had to lower it to 5ghz

3000 Corsair platinum ram

And a 2080 140 core 500 memory.

55 cx LG OLED with gsync. I run 444 ycbr 8 bit.

 

So I'm not sure u getting a new cpu is gonna help.

 

It seems to have less skips at 4k 120hz so it might be HDR causing my problem. Because a 2080 can't do 4k 120 444 ycbr HDR, it can only do 420 ycbr no HDR.

 

Nope NVM it's not that now that I went to a wz and fleet 1440 120 is the smoothest, so it def is just my computer isn't powerful enough to do it I guess. Let me try 1080 120hz. Same thing at 1080 120hz. So maybe it is just the game it self, if 1080 1440 and 4k all get studders.

Edited by hatefulpeace
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