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In favor of ability pruning


Kass's Avatar


Kass
08.04.2021 , 10:25 AM | #181
Quote: Originally Posted by Soljin View Post
I'm pretty sure you just described the plot to Toy Story.

I think limiting ability access volume no matter how much will feel bad to players...Bioware will need to compensate players with a rewarding replacement system "Loadouts" and an overall FUN and rewarding expansion to overcome the frustration people will feel.

If Bioware straight up just prunes abilities, combines abilities and then feeds them back to players in a limited access loadout this will result in major dissent no doubt about it Bioware be warned...

This is not the time to bully a player base leveraging an IP or Nostalgia because we have a very large example of how that can go happening as we type.

This expansion should bring positive changes which improve immersion and fun gameplay, innovation and new content otherwise its not worth doing...
There needs to be a Toy Story 6 with a Star Wars Toy... just sayin'

But yeah we're in agreement - if they don't get this right THE FIRST TIME... this is going to be a community dumpster fire.

The worst thing to be done in a Pandemic is make player entertainment LESS entertaining.

#insearchof7800707
Kass'yan
KTD - Republic Commando - "We're coming... and we're bringing Guns..."
"All Mods have been alerted to your presence, sir!" *
S0-B1 aw350m3n355 @ b31ng a Tr011 ha5 b33n c0mpr0m15ed. Mu5t f1nd 3as13r markz

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
08.04.2021 , 06:12 PM | #182
Quote: Originally Posted by Kass View Post
The inability to play what I've always played is not appealing to me --- I mean I just got my butt-cape handed to me on a platter trying my very first Hard Mode Dxunn Operation - even with all of my allegedly broken and overpowered DCD's, my 306 Item rated and Set-Bonused Full Tank Gear - even as the off tank, I melted like butter in the Tatooine midday Suns...

It was horrifyingly embarrassing.

So it leaves this weird contradiction, where in some instances/places the way the combat system has been developed could be considered Overpowered (Devs did that Players are Innocent Victims) - and in other instances/places your DCD's etc don't mean Podoo, its all about best named in slot armorings, mods, and enhancements PLUS only the mechanics of the operation really matter.
If I understand correctly, and feel free to correct me if I don't, you are saying that in some of the harder PvE content it's all about BiS item modifcations and DCD's don't mean poodo? Because that is very much untrue for tanks. The most important thing about staying alive as a tank is knowing what your defensives can and can't do and managing them properly. Optimising gear will of course help you out a bit, but as long as you're rocking augmented 306 gear proper knowledge of cooldowns is going to be vastly more important than having the exact correct mods and stat balance, as long as you're not doing something completely absurd with your stats.

And seeing Guardian on PTS currently (the only tank spec we can test currently) they come out pretty well in the defensives department. The choice between Saber Reflect, Blade Blitz and Enure will be tough, but I reckon on most fights right now very doable.
If you really need a self cleanse, you pick Enure. If you can consistenly use Blade Blitz on specific large hits, you pick Blade Blitz. Otherwise if you don't need Blade Blitz and there is something you can use Saber Reflect. If both Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz have no defensive utility on a given fight, of which there are a handful, you probably want to pick Enure for the health loan, or Blade Blitz for mobility. The only fight I'm really concerned for is Brontes, taking orbs will be a lot harder without both Reflect and Blitz, but then again Brontes came out before Blade Blitz was even a thing, so it should be doable.

All of our other defensive cooldowns, Saber Ward, Warding Call and Focused Defense remain intact. I think some people are slightly overestimating the impact on available defensives for tanks, but we'll see when we get some more classes added to PTS and can actually try some of the harder content with the proposed changes.

ytrenor's Avatar


ytrenor
08.04.2021 , 08:11 PM | #183
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
He doesn't need practice. He needs less buttons..
He can simply go into UI settings and remove quick bars, then only put what he wants in the remaining.
No need to remove abilities for the other players who wants them.

Kass's Avatar


Kass
08.04.2021 , 08:14 PM | #184
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
If I understand correctly, and feel free to correct me if I don't, you are saying that in some of the harder PvE content it's all about BiS item modifcations and DCD's don't mean poodo? Because that is very much untrue for tanks. The most important thing about staying alive as a tank is knowing what your defensives can and can't do and managing them properly. Optimising gear will of course help you out a bit, but as long as you're rocking augmented 306 gear proper knowledge of cooldowns is going to be vastly more important than having the exact correct mods and stat balance, as long as you're not doing something completely absurd with your stats.

And seeing Guardian on PTS currently (the only tank spec we can test currently) they come out pretty well in the defensives department. The choice between Saber Reflect, Blade Blitz and Enure will be tough, but I reckon on most fights right now very doable.
If you really need a self cleanse, you pick Enure. If you can consistenly use Blade Blitz on specific large hits, you pick Blade Blitz. Otherwise if you don't need Blade Blitz and there is something you can use Saber Reflect. If both Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz have no defensive utility on a given fight, of which there are a handful, you probably want to pick Enure for the health loan, or Blade Blitz for mobility. The only fight I'm really concerned for is Brontes, taking orbs will be a lot harder without both Reflect and Blitz, but then again Brontes came out before Blade Blitz was even a thing, so it should be doable.

All of our other defensive cooldowns, Saber Ward, Warding Call and Focused Defense remain intact. I think some people are slightly overestimating the impact on available defensives for tanks, but we'll see when we get some more classes added to PTS and can actually try some of the harder content with the proposed changes.
tbqh I was ranting a bit, and was only semi serious.

I know DCD's are still needed but I learned the hard way that fighting "Red" in Dxunn Operation where you can't DCD Cleanse, and you're taking stacks that have to be cleansed by a environmental object...

But rather than rant all over again, I'll just say A) Regarding HM/NiM Ops I was quite humbled - maybe as off tank I wasn't getting healed, but it sure felt like nothing I did regarding my DCD's and avoiding cleaves and acid pools did anything to improve my survivability. B) that Operations and PvE content are in no way similar to PVP - not that this is unknown.

It was just a really bad experience - and not because #toomanybuttons_7800707 - but because the buttons I had didn't do me any good (tbh I thought I was joining SM Dxunn... oops), so taking more of Darkness' already nerfed class and pruning more DCD's...

... just leaves me scratching my head.

So
Kass'yan
KTD - Republic Commando - "We're coming... and we're bringing Guns..."
"All Mods have been alerted to your presence, sir!" *
S0-B1 aw350m3n355 @ b31ng a Tr011 ha5 b33n c0mpr0m15ed. Mu5t f1nd 3as13r markz

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
08.05.2021 , 03:49 AM | #185
Quote: Originally Posted by Kass View Post
tbqh I was ranting a bit, and was only semi serious.

I know DCD's are still needed but I learned the hard way that fighting "Red" in Dxunn Operation where you can't DCD Cleanse, and you're taking stacks that have to be cleansed by a environmental object...

But rather than rant all over again, I'll just say A) Regarding HM/NiM Ops I was quite humbled - maybe as off tank I wasn't getting healed, but it sure felt like nothing I did regarding my DCD's and avoiding cleaves and acid pools did anything to improve my survivability. B) that Operations and PvE content are in no way similar to PVP - not that this is unknown.

It was just a really bad experience - and not because #toomanybuttons_7800707 - but because the buttons I had didn't do me any good (tbh I thought I was joining SM Dxunn... oops), so taking more of Darkness' already nerfed class and pruning more DCD's...

... just leaves me scratching my head.

So
Yeah fair enough if mechanics go horribly wrong, DCD's can't save you there. That said Assassin is the one tank spec that really can use some rebalancing of its cooldowns. As it stands (and has been standing for years) Shroud is just too much, at least with how often you can use it. Several mechanics are completely avoidable if you just bring one Darkness Assassin along. Pretty much every ops team brings along at least one Sin tank when doing NiMs, sometimes two, and it's mainly because of how ridiculous Shroud is.

Some way where you'd have to pick through the new system between different variants of Shroud. Maybe having to pick between Shroud of Madness and Disjunction, or between Shroud of Madness and Shroud the ability itself.

Kass's Avatar


Kass
08.05.2021 , 08:45 AM | #186
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Yeah fair enough if mechanics go horribly wrong, DCD's can't save you there. That said Assassin is the one tank spec that really can use some rebalancing of its cooldowns. As it stands (and has been standing for years) Shroud is just too much, at least with how often you can use it. Several mechanics are completely avoidable if you just bring one Darkness Assassin along. Pretty much every ops team brings along at least one Sin tank when doing NiMs, sometimes two, and it's mainly because of how ridiculous Shroud is.

Some way where you'd have to pick through the new system between different variants of Shroud. Maybe having to pick between Shroud of Madness and Disjunction, or between Shroud of Madness and Shroud the ability itself.
In contrast though Assassin Darkness in PVP is an F- in damage output, even with 10K Power... its only saving grace and usability with Skank-Tank setup is that it can out last almost everything, and if it gets tunneled Force Cloak out, heal and return.

Assassin Darkness gets Steel Brick level tanky-ness in exchange for lower damage output - but the current output needs an upward rebalance to like a C- to help reduce the TTK metric vs other classes besides Juggernaut.
Kass'yan
KTD - Republic Commando - "We're coming... and we're bringing Guns..."
"All Mods have been alerted to your presence, sir!" *
S0-B1 aw350m3n355 @ b31ng a Tr011 ha5 b33n c0mpr0m15ed. Mu5t f1nd 3as13r markz