If none of you've seen the Gearing Chart on how their "newfangled" gearing system works with all the new tokens...here you go: New Gearing System.

 

Our mains will take a long while to get up blue levels and longer if you want purple static gear doing MM ops. Months, not days or a few weeks. And gear drops is all RNG. You'll earn tokens...that going on BioWare history for purchasing upgrades, will require a high number of them...2 different types...to obtain the static blue gear. The proof is in this chart.

 

Keith and Charles...you've really fracked us solo players and stripped us from playing our way. I won't be doing any content (save story) passed 6.0. I will not give up my min/max'd 306 gear just to wear the bovine excrement static gear. Thank you very much Keith and Charles for discriminating against those players who do not NiM raid or participate in group play. Next time, when you want to frack us over, kiss us first.

I like it. Edited January 16, 2022 by GeneralGyro

As I said in some other similar thread, SWTOR is an RPG(ish). The point of an RPG is to build up your character over time. It's not to give you max gear right away.

Also, of course, it's in BW's best interest to encourage you to take some 'sub' time to do things.

I entirely approve of gear coming slowly, with significant effort and a high level of RNG so we cannot simply gear up in a week of FPs or Ops or whatever our preference may be.

 

OP you say that this hurts solo players. My assumption has been the opposite - that if solo players do the new quests and storyline they will get gear upgrades over what a solo player is likely to have before 7.0. Maybe not immediately but as they go forward. Are you saying that after doing all of the solo quests and story FPs a solo player won't be getting upgrades from 7.0? I find this highly unlikely.

That chart didn’t include Legendary implants the last time I checked. Those are an additional issue.

 

It looks like you need to exchange 2 implants of 326 level (and other currencies) for one 328 implant and so on. At each level you need 2 implants to wear, so you need to buy 4 implants at each level if you want to upgrade.

They tried instant gratification with gear already. People complained

They tried instant gratification with gear already. People complained

 

A horrible grind isn't the solution though...

They tried instant gratification with gear already. People complained

 

Loved 6.0 system ever since first seeing it on PTS. About this one I will moan, whine and complain as long as it exists in its current form. Unless other changes they are planning (like conquest and balancing) will make me take a longer break from the game.

I entirely approve of gear coming slowly, with significant effort and a high level of RNG so we cannot simply gear up in a week of FPs or Ops or whatever our preference may be.

 

OP you say that this hurts solo players. My assumption has been the opposite - that if solo players do the new quests and storyline they will get gear upgrades over what a solo player is likely to have before 7.0. Maybe not immediately but as they go forward. Are you saying that after doing all of the solo quests and story FPs a solo player won't be getting upgrades from 7.0? I find this highly unlikely.

 

While the iLevel for solo players will be higher, the stats will be much worse, so in any content that is downleveled a solo player will be better off with 306 gear than the best they can get from 7.0.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Damask_Rose

It doesn't seem that confusing to me shown in graph form, but in-game it will probably be confusing to a lot of players why a vendor won't upgrade their gear (wrong type) or why they can't switch the rating to another (critical -> accuracy) Bioware should post something like this on the official website. Anyways, it definitely looks to be a lot slower than 6.0. No more gearing in a week or two, maybe a couple months now. Gear is still legacy bound though so once your main is at the cap for whatever content you like, you'll be able to put surplus pieces from main in the bank for alts.

Looking at that picture again,

 

- I'm not sure you can get Decurion Isotopre Stabiliers from FP weeklies.

- 316 is starting gear level in PvP, PvE starts at 318 (*)

 

(*) I recall BW saying content is generally tuned for 318. It is currently not. The new FP's second boss is tough even with 322 (and 326 legendary implants.) MMFPs are tough with a trinity team in 320s.

Edited January 17, 2022 by mike_carton

Looking at that picture again,

 

- I'm not sure you can get Decurion Isotopre Stabiliers from FP weeklies.

- 316 is starting gear level in PvP, PvE starts at 318 (*)

 

(*) I recall BW saying content is generally tuned for 318. It is currently not. The new FP's second boss is tough even with 322 (and 326 legendary implants.) MMFPs are tough with a trinity team in 320s.

 

We know BioWare have trouble balancing content. It’s why players need to be able to min-max their stats so they can get the best performance out of our classes. But we won’t even be able to do that anymore.

Have you all forgotten that the ENDGAME main objective is to GET gear not to have it?

Min-max'ing is so far away from reality it makes people worse instead of better? "oh but how could having the best gear make you worse?" because it gives you an excuse, an excuse to improve your gear instead of yourself which in return makes you worse. Not being able to mod your gear changes NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING - it does not matter now, it won't matter then. "B-B-But amplifiers...." Yea I am sure the 9% periodic intensity will help you much after you lost 5 GCD's because your clicking.

 

I saw people saying that you can't even get accuracy to 110%, meanwhile they are wearing blue gear??? The bad thing about this is not the gear, or the underlying systems. It's the scaling of the things you are supposed to fight, if farming components wipes to revan with 6 DPS and gets core enrage on 10% - I mean I don't want to be rude but the groups that could clear revan are countable on 1 hand. Nowadays you don't even die to -100% Max HP which is the most dumb thing ever, all you need is 2 good DPS and 1 Healer to beat the core atm.

I have the most respect for farming components and them testing and giving feedback with the trust that the devs will do something, I however doubt they will and if they actually do nothing... I don't think PvE can survive, but if they release it like this PvE will be harder than PvP again which I would be looking forward to.

 

I totally get that even the casual players want BiS gear, but let's be real you can't expect to get gear as fast as the players that raid NiM and HM on a regular basis? I don't think thats a reasonable thing to want, you just have to live with the fact that they won't donate gear for this expansion and come to terms with the fact that you cannot reach Max iLvL on the first day like many people did with 6.0.

They tried instant gratification with gear already. People complained

 

I said nothing about instant gratification. You tried to make my post say something completely contrary to what I wrote.

 

Let me spell it out to you in plain terms:

 

Higher gear is gated behind group content. Conquest gear is all green. You cannot obtain blue or purple static gear, let alone any other type or I ANY modable gear through conquest, heroics or by any other means except doing NiM mode operations.

 

It means, if I were a Kool-aid drinking white hat for BW this would be okay. I am not.

 

This means those, like myself, who enjoy doing the stories and heroics for leveling and gearing cannot advance or upgrade any of their armor unless, they DO GROUP CONTENT.

 

I don't do group content anymore because those who I played years with in guilds or friends I've know for 30 plus years have quit this game permanently. I have my own two guilds. When 5.10 hit, the 20 members of my guilds quit and walked away and have not returned to play. I do not like playing randoms anymore, especially in this game. Toxicity runs amok in randoms. Therefore, I am relegated to solo play.

 

When they fixed 6.0 for gearing, I spent two months gearing up my mains to fully 306 min/max'd gear. I was happy with that. If that was in the picture now, I'd not say word. But it's not. They're removing Renown. Nerfing Conquest to give us practically nothing. To that end now, they've made that fracking impossible to obtain gear unless you do group content. And you and others think that's alright!

 

FFXIV is my main game now. I will NOT put forth the effort nor buy anything from their cartel market or spend in extra money on this game except for my sub. BioWare doesn't give a flying frack about us non-NiM raiding/Ops players. Keith and Charles made it abundantly clear. And you and others think that's okay.

 

In essence, you are okay with the blatant discrimination they are using against all solo/non-group playing players like me. If you cannot see that, well...that's what happens when apathy clouds people's judgement.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Ghost_Spectre

I want to be challanged and show off. It all co-exists. You play harder content to get a challenge, afer doing that challenge you get rewarded by gear. You said you played hard content in other game and not once did you cheer when you cleared a boss and got that awesome upgrade? Give me a break. Why do you play Veteran Mode/ Nightmare Mode? Why do they put unique mounts, achievements and gear from these challenges? So you can show it off!

 

Its simple dopamine boost to your body that drives you to push harder, achieve more. Whether its gear, achievement or mount. You get satisfaction from doing it.

 

6.0 nothing felt special when it comes to gear when you did the content. You just cleared the bosses for achievements you were missing and occasionally for the mounts like brontes wings or the dxun flaming mount. But now gearing is far more interesting and it being locked behind the hardest content is the way mmo should run.

This, what you write, is a typical casual cry. Gear should be gated behind group content. Its an mmo ffs!

Wrong.

 

Funny thing is, let me quote from their itemization article:

There are two points players should keep in mind when it comes to upgrading their gear in 7.0. The first is that weekly content will be the fastest and most efficient way to obtain upgrades. Secondly, risk is rewarded. If a player chooses to complete content on a higher difficulty, they will be rewarded with better gear.

which means your line of thinking is full in line with theirs.

 

Even funnier is the paragraph right before that:

Another key component of our philosophy is to remove randomness (referred to as RNG) from the equation as much as possible. When RNG is used often, it causes a variety of issues, such as inflation in the game’s economy, bloat in a character’s inventory space, and removal of player control in acquiring and equipping gear. The Renown system was meant to mitigate issues caused by RNG by providing alternate opportunities to earn gear; however, it wasn’t effective in that goal. Issues caused by RNG can lead to a frustrating gearing experience, and we want to remove these hurdles.

While reading that my brain went multiple times "what?!", which is very bad for when it comes to describe the base line of thinking, the root of all the design behind it and implementation following that. Now, it can be worded badly, but this is a hodgepodge of different problems and concepts ...

 

 

Now why I said "wrong"? Because in the end it is not about gating content behind difficult things. What you as a company want is to keep players playing, ideally in whatever fashion they prefer. So you don't gate gear behind lets say difficult operations / PvE, but you make sure that it needs a certain amount of time to obtain. If that is via crafting, via playing on a slot machine, via doing story stuff, difficult bosses, PvP, or even rare drops on random mobs, it doesn't matter. The best option is a system where you see gradual progress, not this you have nothing and then everything 1 item rare drop from super difficult boss scheme. Read: Gating gear behind for example specific types of OPs is broken design, unless you want to limit your playerbase down to people who either don't care or line up already all giddy that they are the chosen ones to get their hands on a full set of "Gold plated platinum Armor of Massive Sacrifice", just to get it dissolved on another boss in a spray of HF acid so they can get the hands on one piece of force resisting kevlar plated plasteel armor, and this piece goes bust if they die while carrying some HF acid debuff+DoT the next 14 days. If you like this kind of stuff, more power to you, but you have to accept that others may prefer the route of crafting this plasteel armor, even if it takes 14 days to get everything done eventually. The gate is always time.

 

Next thing is, you can start modding gear at level 10 right now. You can also use unmodded gear you find on the way during leveling, or use crafted gear where you also usually have fixed stats on it. But there is always the option to use modded gear. Even 306 gear can be standard issue fixed stat stuff, and there is a difference to even non-set modded 306 armor (= upgrade/better), because you can optimize the stats to your needs, which is not possible with the fixed stat stuff. And now we are forced back to fixed stat gear? Seriously? Ever bought gear in Ossus? This comes premodded with a fixed set of mods if I'm not mistaken, but you have the option to change it. Players who don't care about modding can go their way, while you retain the possibilities for min-maxers to do their thing. Pretty simple.

 

Edit/PS: Just to say it specifically: With the 7.0 system set bonuses are not on armor anymore, at least for level 80 stuff. Which also means if for example certain armor sets are only available via specific content and you want to show off with that, by all means. As long as there is other armor which is the same in terms of stats and options, noone will really complain about this. Now think about this: What if that armor looks garbage to a lot of people ... would you still show off with it?

Edited January 17, 2022 by Spexius

I want to be challanged and show off. It all co-exists. You play harder content to get a challenge, afer doing that challenge you get rewarded by gear. You said you played hard content in other game and not once did you cheer when you cleared a boss and got that awesome upgrade? Give me a break. Why do you play Veteran Mode/ Nightmare Mode? Why do they put unique mounts, achievements and gear from these challenges? So you can show it off!

 

Its simple dopamine boost to your body that drives you to push harder, achieve more. Whether its gear, achievement or mount. You get satisfaction from doing it.

 

6.0 nothing felt special when it comes to gear when you did the content. You just cleared the bosses for achievements you were missing and occasionally for the mounts like brontes wings or the dxun flaming mount. But now gearing is far more interesting and it being locked behind the hardest content is the way mmo should run.

You're telling me that stuff is about the dopamine boost: achievement, mount, gear, and then telling me that actually, achievement and mount aren't worth it and you want gear. Why is an achievement and mount not sufficient? Gear actually expires with the way the gear treadmill works in this game and others like it. An achievement is something you can show off forever, gear becomes obsolete with each expansion and is trivialized by the next set.

 

If it's just that gear does it for you and the other stuff doesn't, that's fine, that's how your mind works, but then don't act like it's "just dopamine" like it's some principle.

 

As for me, I have no memory of being motivated by those things when I did it. I'm not gonna say it never added to the experience, but if they weren't part of it, I would have still done it and gotten about the same amount of enjoyment out of it. I would happily just leave it at that and enjoy what I enjoy and let others enjoy what they enjoy, but then we run into this stuff about how you want exclusive gear for raiders so you can show off. And the reality of how that plays out in this game's situation is, most of the playerbase is annoyed, so that you can feel a bit more special and be a little more motivated. Hardly seems worth it.

Wrong.

 

Funny thing is, let me quote from their itemization article:

 

which means your line of thinking is full in line with theirs.

 

Even funnier is the paragraph right before that:

 

While reading that my brain went multiple times "what?!", which is very bad for when it comes to describe the base line of thinking, the root of all the design behind it and implementation following that. Now, it can be worded badly, but this is a hodgepodge of different problems and concepts ...

 

 

Now why I said "wrong"? Because in the end it is not about gating content behind difficult things. What you as a company want is to keep players playing, ideally in whatever fashion they prefer. So you don't gate gear behind lets say difficult operations / PvE, but you make sure that it needs a certain amount of time to obtain. If that is via crafting, via playing on a slot machine, via doing story stuff, difficult bosses, PvP, or even rare drops on random mobs, it doesn't matter. The best option is a system where you see gradual progress, not this you have nothing and then everything 1 item rare drop from super difficult boss scheme. Read: Gating gear behind for example specific types of OPs is broken design, unless you want to limit your playerbase down to people who either don't care or line up already all giddy that they are the chosen ones to get their hands on a full set of "Gold plated platinum Armor of Massive Sacrifice", just to get it dissolved on another boss in a spray of HF acid so they can get the hands on one piece of force resisting kevlar plated plasteel armor, and this piece goes bust if they die while carrying some HF acid debuff+DoT the next 14 days. If you like this kind of stuff, more power to you, but you have to accept that others may prefer the route of crafting this plasteel armor, even if it takes 14 days to get everything done eventually. The gate is always time.

 

Next thing is, you can start modding gear at level 10 right now. You can also use unmodded gear you find on the way during leveling, or use crafted gear where you also usually have fixed stats on it. But there is always the option to use modded gear. Even 306 gear can be standard issue fixed stat stuff, and there is a difference to even non-set modded 306 armor (= upgrade/better), because you can optimize the stats to your needs, which is not possible with the fixed stat stuff. And now we are forced back to fixed stat gear? Seriously? Ever bought gear in Ossus? This comes premodded with a fixed set of mods if I'm not mistaken, but you have the option to change it. Players who don't care about modding can go their way, while you retain the possibilities for min-maxers to do their thing. Pretty simple.

 

Yes I agree with them, because that is how gear should be obtained. I am not in favour of no-modable gear. This part is wrong but I guess its too late for this to change so close to the expansion. But better gear should be a reward for harder content. Simple and its not wrong. Many mmo players will agree, especially those who ever raided harder than SM.

 

You're telling me that stuff is about the dopamine boost: achievement, mount, gear, and then telling me that actually, achievement and mount aren't worth it and you want gear. Why is an achievement and mount not sufficient? Gear actually expires with the way the gear treadmill works in this game and others like it. An achievement is something you can show off forever, gear becomes obsolete with each expansion and is trivialized by the next set.

 

If it's just that gear does it for you and the other stuff doesn't, that's fine, that's how your mind works, but then don't act like it's "just dopamine" like it's some principle.

 

As for me, I have no memory of being motivated by those things when I did it. I'm not gonna say it never added to the experience, but if they weren't part of it, I would have still done it and gotten about the same amount of enjoyment out of it. I would happily just leave it at that and enjoy what I enjoy and let others enjoy what they enjoy, but then we run into this stuff about how you want exclusive gear for raiders so you can show off. And the reality of how that plays out in this game's situation is, most of the playerbase is annoyed, so that you can feel a bit more special and be a little more motivated. Hardly seems worth it.

 

I am saying that gear satisfaction was removed in 6.0 and that is what kept many players wanting a change, me included. You still did not provide any single reason why you kept playing "Harder content in some other game". What was it for you? Because when they took away gear satisfaction for me, I ran away to achievements and unique mounts just to fill in the void. Now they fix something they broke with 6.0 and I am in for the ride. It sucks we will not get modable gear right away and it is a bad change. I am not disputing that.

This, what you write, is a typical casual cry. Gear should be gated behind group content. Its an mmo ffs! Casuals should not have access to bis gear.

 

Casual's money is as good as tryhards's money and that's what should matter for the devs.

 

You had it way to easy in 6.0. But this created another problem: Adding casuals to groups with BIS gear, but they still couldnt pull their weight, because none of them read tactics, practiced their rotation, zero effort noobs. This is a good change that they are doing. Now you will not be able to shine in your new set that you bought off with credits.

 

So casuals should do the content to get the gear but also shouldn't because they ruin your fun. Make up your mind please.

 

Pay2Win is ending by this point and its a good change.

 

How was it pay to win?

 

Gathering group nowadays for anything else than TC and EV farm is close to impossible and that is entirely fault of the 6.0 casual friendly approach.

 

This shows you exactly what majority of players like: easy content.

 

Bioware is not givin a frack about non NiM raiders? Have you lost your mind? Entire 3 years of this game was pushed so that casuals get bis gear and they still complained its too long of a grind. You cannot please casuals, they always be beetching. Bravo BioWare for finally making the right decisions and keeping high- end gear to people who put in effort.

 

We'll see how it works for them

Man, Gibonski really is making their way around the forums to spout the religion of "gear as a reward".

 

Can we go back to when rewards were rewards?

Man, Gibonski really is making their way around the forums to spout the religion of "gear as a reward".

 

Can we go back to when rewards were rewards?

 

Let's hope he's not a regular in the Discord channel that the devs are listening to.

Let's hope he's not a regular in the Discord channel that the devs are listening to.

 

Don't worry, the devs already agree with him, "... That [item rating] cap will rise. So you will continue to have a reason to play"

Don't worry, the devs already agree with him, "... That [item rating] cap will rise. So you will continue to have a reason to play"

 

To play with nerfed, pruned toons in non modable gear.. replaying the same old content they have been played for years now? Yeah, good luck with that.