Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Some Advice For PvP Please

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Some Advice For PvP Please

Altaire's Avatar


Altaire
05.11.2021 , 07:45 AM | #1
Hey all.

Firstly, this isnt a moan thread, albeit its easy to do with what feels like the state of PvP nowadays - I am after some advice / help.

Im a returning player after a couple years off game. Been playing since launch on and off and have always had 1 toon as a PvP character - this normally being a commando. Last time I focus played PvP was when the valor cap was 60 (which i reached and had played at for some time - I appreciate is a long time ago). Since returning ive read countless forum posts, guides from other websites, spoken to players in game (when they respond) for some advice in the current build of the game. Ive done this for 4 weeks or so trying to find an answer.

What i cant get my head round is no matter the build or set gear - mando's seem horrendously under powered. So much so that my only current option that i feel i can even contribute to the team is by going healer. So I am currently using both Tech Medic / Conc Fire sets respectively to try and up my heals and see what works. Ive tried focusing on a crit build and then swapping to the 1.3 GCD alc build. Tried both and both still seem awful.

Now i do not proclaim to be the best pvp-er in the world but when i cant outheal single target dps i just feel like something is wrong. I have tried ranked but its beyond a joke, either i get burnt in a matter of seconds or i just cant keep my team up. Thus, I am resigning myself to the pain the is random warzones.

My biggest query is something i see regularly and this is mainly Imp side classes topping the dps and heals for a warzone and not by a small margin. I am after some advice as to what it is im doing wrong as eventhough i normally end up top or near top for heals for my team im so drastically below others.

Heres an example of what i mean (names redacted for privacy):

https://i.ibb.co/ZYK42DG/Scoreboard.jpg

This match in question I sat hidden healing on average 5 players for the entire match so I assumed my overall healing would be insane but yet again, the person above does almost twice as much.

This seems to be the same nearly every warzone match and I'm at a total loss. My gear is fully aug-ed in 286 and ive followed the builds as per exact copy from guides.

When trying to go assault or gunnery, although it was fun, again my damage was awful, whereby im lucking if i crit for 34-36k. Last night whilst playing i took a killing blow from someone for 65k which became a regular occurence and then theres Sorcs........who seem to sneeze and i fall over. I am aware of defensive CD's and use them sparingly and as required but for an example i pop my damage reduction and start self healing and still my i cant out heal a single target hitting me.

For reference my stats currently as follows:
Mastery 12,453
End 17,112
Power 8,868
Crit 2,775
Alc 3,220

Crit Chance 45.70
Crit Multi 67.98

Thanks in advance for any suggestions - and please, any "gitgud" trolls, dont waste the energy typing a response - see enough of that BS in ranked.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
05.11.2021 , 08:25 AM | #2
i haven't toyed with heals yet. alas. but healing is pretty balanced from what I've seen.

mando/merc are not underpowered, but they have been steadily nerfed since gunnery/arsenal was overtuned in the season 10-11 era.

IO/assault specialist has steadily become more viable since then as well, but it's still the more difficult of the two specs to play in pvp b/c of resource management, the nature of its dot spread, and the nature of dots vs. burst in pvp generally.

one thing you'll notice right off the bat is that while the concentrated fire gear set is generally the set most players have for both specs (apex predator is bis for gunnery but it has to be farmed and cannot be purchased). second, concentrated fire works A LOT better for Assault Specialist than Gunnery (it's like it was designed to pair with the supercharger buffed tactical! ).

gunnery is pretty simplistic. it's easy to swap targets. with your full gear set you may want to pay attention to what you do with HIB once you pop supercharger, but nothing has really changed with gunnery in a while. it's just that the burst has been slowly reduced.

assault is a lot more fun. and since it looks like you're just running regs, I don't think you'll have any problems with it. you can have more fun with dot spread in regs.

I'm not sure what utilities you're taking, but if you run gunnery, I'd recommend the extra tech override skill found in the second tier ("overclocked"). It helps immensely when casting a slew of abilities on the move, whether you simply want to double-up on Grav Round, or you need to CC a melee on your tail (instant Concussive Round + instant med probe/grav round, or double-up on med probes). There's just a slew of combos you can use 2 tech overrides with. I would not recommend this skill for Assault spec though. It will melt your ammo stores.

one thing I've noticed since coming back (it's now s14 and I last played s11) is that despite getting an extra propulsion round/rocket out, mandos/mercs feel extra slow. I think it's more b/c sorcs/sages can run around like humming birds on crack, and most melee are highly mobile with a lot of tricks to circumvent CC. it's not like you can't kite, but I haven't felt this slow since...gawd, 2.0 era? (was worse then, ofc)
Krack

Altaire's Avatar


Altaire
05.11.2021 , 08:34 AM | #3
Thanks for the reply Fox.

Out of the 2 dps builds, i did enjoy assault more and as you mentioned i followed the pvp build guide using the Conc Fire set. Although i could 1v1 "adequately" well, it still felt too less bursty than most the other dps classes and you are 100% right that mobility is a massive issue.

That being said, I am now solely focused on the healing aspect of mando hence the total respec from assault (including amps). I just want to know what im doing wrong to not be hitting the 9m healing levels that i regularly see Mercs/Sorcs hitting. If it were purely Sorcs i could feel confident in that its purely a class thing but when Mercs are regularly up there and as of yet - I have never seen a mando near that, there must be something I am missing. If it were a 10-15% difference i could put that down to skill/situation/cd's but we are talking 5m difference - which is the equivalent of a whole other healer!

/shrug

Beyrahl's Avatar


Beyrahl
05.11.2021 , 08:40 AM | #4
Looks like you may have some HP heavy enhancements or mods, or even armoring. I would fix that first as you go, as for getting better.. It's honestly something you will really have to try at, considering you made this post I will assume you are willing to put in the effort. There isn't just some magic thing you can learn to become great and it's hard to give specific advice without seeing your gameplay.

The first thing I would recommend is parsing, seeing where you stand and try to improve from there and how to improve from here. Plenty of guides out there to teach fundamentals, then when it comes to PvP there's quite a difference still. The best thing I can say is keeping your APM high, using CDs every time you can to avoid dying unless it's strategically better you die and reset.

I would recommend also recording and reviewing your own gameplay, or asking someone else to help you - at least someone who PvPs, but also can play and perform on said class/spec.
When reviewing look for these things.


  • Wasted GCDs (Not using abilities, dead time, there's always something you can do)
    Understanding and awareness of the resolve system? (Are you knocking after a stun?? Don't.. Are you using CC when you need to?)
  • DCD usage (Are you overlapping a lot of defensives? Are you dying through them because you underestimate damage?)
  • Making use of LoS and Kiting (For example jet out shortly after a leap and applying a slow, or line of sighting casters mid cast to make it difficult to hit you. Making yourself not easily hittable when it's needed is very important.)
  • Guard mechanics (Do you understand how it works? Do you know the distance? Do you know how good it is? Are you aware when it's taken off you?)
  • Cleanses (What can you cleanse? Every class with a cleanse can cleanse different things, for example, an operative can cleanse sniper automatic cover pulse root. It can also cleanse flashbang. There's more info on cleansing I recommend looking up.)

Either way, there's a lot to consider and it's hard to just give blanket advice because you don't know where everyone stands in experience. I would also recommend try your preferred utilities and swap them for other recommend utilities, especially if you find yourself barely making use of one or the other.

Altaire's Avatar


Altaire
05.11.2021 , 09:06 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Beyrahl View Post
Looks like you may have some HP heavy enhancements or mods, or even armoring. I would fix that first as you go, as for getting better.. It's honestly something you will really have to try at, considering you made this post I will assume you are willing to put in the effort. There isn't just some magic thing you can learn to become great and it's hard to give specific advice without seeing your gameplay.

The first thing I would recommend is parsing, seeing where you stand and try to improve from there and how to improve from here. Plenty of guides out there to teach fundamentals, then when it comes to PvP there's quite a difference still. The best thing I can say is keeping your APM high, using CDs every time you can to avoid dying unless it's strategically better you die and reset.

I would recommend also recording and reviewing your own gameplay, or asking someone else to help you - at least someone who PvPs, but also can play and perform on said class/spec.
When reviewing look for these things.


  • Wasted GCDs (Not using abilities, dead time, there's always something you can do)
    Understanding and awareness of the resolve system? (Are you knocking after a stun?? Don't.. Are you using CC when you need to?)
  • DCD usage (Are you overlapping a lot of defensives? Are you dying through them because you underestimate damage?)
  • Making use of LoS and Kiting (For example jet out shortly after a leap and applying a slow, or line of sighting casters mid cast to make it difficult to hit you. Making yourself not easily hittable when it's needed is very important.)
  • Guard mechanics (Do you understand how it works? Do you know the distance? Do you know how good it is? Are you aware when it's taken off you?)
  • Cleanses (What can you cleanse? Every class with a cleanse can cleanse different things, for example, an operative can cleanse sniper automatic cover pulse root. It can also cleanse flashbang. There's more info on cleansing I recommend looking up.)

Either way, there's a lot to consider and it's hard to just give blanket advice because you don't know where everyone stands in experience. I would also recommend try your preferred utilities and swap them for other recommend utilities, especially if you find yourself barely making use of one or the other.
Thanks for the reply. All your points are valid and taken note of and i appreciate your time taken to help.

However they key thing I still cant understand as mentioned above - the healing amount. All your points cover basic play - ie situational, positioning, movement - based for my own survivability. On the imaged warzone report - i stood still for the entire match, no one saw me/targeted me. I spammed heals for the entire match. Used CD's as needed and was spamming Recharge Cells on CD due to so much cell usage for heals. However, i end up 4 million heals below the Merc at the top. If im not mistaken, Merc is the carbon copy Imp alternative to mando (i say this as i dont play imp and never have done other than for legendary status).

Im not an amazing pvp player but ive pvp-ed in mmo's since Dark Age of Camelot - so ive got some years under my belt. It just seems theres a massive disparity in the healing amounts between what im pushing out in comparison to Mercs/Sorcs.

I will take on board your notes of HP and will swap out some mods to compensate but i read that Mastery is capped/levelled in pvp so therefore i should put into power? And if so - would this power differential compensate the 4 million in lost heals based on the imaged warzone?! I cant see it but im more than willing to try it.

Altaire's Avatar


Altaire
05.11.2021 , 10:43 AM | #6
Small update:

Just did a voidstar, came top again on my team with 6m heals. However, opposing teams merc got 10.5mil heals.

Logged an imp and he was kind enough to take time out and chat with me. Chewed his brains for 10 minutes. Compared stats, gear, abilities and rotations etc etc.

We are almost carbon copy and yet still theres a MASSIVE difference in heal output. Only thing i can suggest is if anyone see's a Mando healer pumping more than 9m heals in a warzone, could they send me their name so i can figure out what I am clearly doing wrong.

Thanks again to the people that have responded! You are appreciated.

Beyrahl's Avatar


Beyrahl
05.11.2021 , 11:13 AM | #7
There's the issue - is there anything to heal?
But, that didn't look like that was the case.
I would assume your HPS parses may not be that high and there's room for improvement more than you think.
I by no means, mean that in a bad way, I just don't know how else to say it. (I am certain you understand the importance of parses and building good muscle memory to allow you to focus more on awareness of the match.)
As I said before, there's no trick to suddenly getting more HPS - Healing as you keep referring to as overall healing.
It's way less about overall healing and your HPS, which is healing per second.

Time and time again I've seen healers seemingly hard-capped at 12k HPS even though that was considered really really good LAST expansion. I am more than certain it's because of APM, which is actions per minute and a combination of too little AoE heals. Since you're a mando, shells for example are really important for inflating HPS numbers even if you don't intend of keeping a said person alive.

Any way you could share gameplay? That'd be immensely helpful to give proper help in areas you may need it.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
05.11.2021 , 11:18 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Altaire View Post
We are almost carbon copy and yet still theres a MASSIVE difference in heal output. Only thing i can suggest is if anyone see's a Mando healer pumping more than 9m heals in a warzone, could they send me their name so i can figure out what I am clearly doing wrong.
Cease already suggested this, but you may want to try parsing on a dummy. You can check out http://parsely.io/parser/healer-lead...00/all/live/0/ for pve rotations. They're probably not 100% applicable for pvp, but it's probably a good place to start looking for improvements and to make sure your apm is high, etc.

Altaire's Avatar


Altaire
05.11.2021 , 05:08 PM | #9
Thanks both - i will certainly try the parse to check the heals. I hit a wall earlier and gave up on it so jumped to an Imp for a change of scenery!

In relation to the AE focused abilities - i do use them and also use the channelled heal with ae at the end (forget the name) and kolto bomb is always on CD. I try and focus the group rather than single target which is what the merc said he does also.

Will give the parse a look and post back the findings! Thanks once more!

abhaxus's Avatar


abhaxus
05.11.2021 , 07:18 PM | #10
Your mastery and power are significantly less than my Merc (13k, 10k) and your crit seems about 200 pts higher than it should be with BIS gear and a 1.3gcd build. Endurance also seems high but I'm not on my PC to check the exact stats.

Tech medic is good for fluff HPS in PVP if you are good at spreading the HOT around.

The screenshot you shared was a really low damage game with too many healers, so not a good one to judge. Normally I'd expect about 16-18k HPS for a good Merc/mando healer in a cleave 8v8 with quality DPS on both sides. 20k plus is possible in the right situations, and the absolute cap is somewhere around 28-30k if I recall correctly.

Ultimately I wouldn't worry about your numbers and just focus on keeping one or two players up in addition to yourself. Try to identify the top DPS on your team and dump all your heals into them. Use "acquire focus target's target" to net on cooldown. As you get better at keeping one player up, expand your focus to two, three, etc. The numbers will follow.
Abhaxus - Sorc | Bitter Pill/Lysol Injection - op | Buubi'sett - PT | Nnnoooooooooo - Jugg | Mayor Bootyjudge - sniper | Juggsridemelikeapony - Merc | Goodagainstbads - sin |