Sarova Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Has anyone with Biochem actually got an upgraded schematic at artifact (purple level) for biochem kyrprax (6.0) medpacs and med units via deconstruction? The 10% chance seems far too low against the high cost to make amount of med units/medpacs needed to deconstruct. I only use Med Units on my characters as they heal companions as well and I'm after the upgraded (6.0) version. I've not seen any for sale (on Darth Malgus) so I'm assuming no-one has the schematic yet? Is this likely to be looked at in the big upcoming crafting patch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Has anyone with Biochem actually got an upgraded schematic at artifact (purple level) for biochem kyrprax (6.0) medpacs and med units via deconstruction? The 10% chance seems far too low against the high cost to make amount of med units/medpacs needed to deconstruct. Sure they have, I bought one. And it's not 10% its 5% for final tier. So 5% x 30 tries would give you a 78.54% chance of learning it which is a 21.46% chance of still nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void_Singer Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Personally? Medpacs, yes. Medunits, no. those were some of the more reasonable ones, since they didn't require matrices (although they really should require the matrix component for the reusables... they don't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatT Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Gyromaniac, that's not how chance works. 5% chance is 5% every time. Not stacked by the number of tries. Statistics. If you buy 10 lottery tickets with a 1 in 500 million chance, you are not getting 5 in a 5 hundred million chances. You are getting 5 tries at 1 in 500 million. Much lower rate. There is no compensation for number of tries yes, I personally know people who have achieved the Gold, reusable medpacs. I am stuck at purple an d tossing a lot of mats out to try for the gold. Purple ones are good. Gold is the goal. Success is ... fleeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void_Singer Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 [...]. If you buy 10 lottery tickets with a 1 in 500 million chance, you are not getting 5 in a 5 hundred million chances. [...] bad example, because actually you do get the 5 in 500 mil chance (since you're covered 5 unique possibilities... assuming you didn't pick the same numbers 5 times (because it's a single roll against 5 chances, not 5 rolls against 1 chance each) people really misunderstand how flat odds works, but actually the simple intuition is correct... an X% chance does mean that, on average, it takes (100 / X) tries... the problem comes from the fact that lower X is the bigger the number of tries you need to get that average.... you can think of it more simply as a tray with 100 slots for 100 marbles.... if you only have 1 marble (chance) there's lots of places it can go, and so it feels a lot more random how often it "hits" the spots you want. but if you have a bunch of marble (chances), the "hits" will be pretty evenly spread out over the tries and it feels more regular. as a general rule, the lower the odds, the more random it will behave, and the more tries it takes to get a true average. reverse it for high odds. It tends to match short terms expectations at around 50% a fun way to hack your perceptions is to always look at the higher odds side... 5% success = 95% failure... so if you are are expecting 95% failure, you are less surprised by the randomness of lower odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuyToo Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 I have the gold schematic for the new med pack from deconning purple. I learned each tier from deconning. Yes, I deconned a lot. Quite a bit of work for something that gets bolstered down to the old med packs in most content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacCleoud Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Can you only learn the schematic off what YOU create? I bought a couple to add to my stack, but it said "No upgrades avaiilable" when I did that, and even splitting the stack after adding the two didn't give me any stacks that had an upgrade available. I don't have the new schematic either.....for the mebpac..... just starting in on the stims... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void_Singer Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 that's usually how it works, only your crafts can be learned from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacCleoud Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I knew i could only learn schematics for my skills. What I was meaning was, can I only learn schematics from the items I craft personally. I bought 2 Medpacs to make a stack of 60, and my entire stack ended up showing "No research available". Even after separating out the stack, it stayed that way. I put that stack in the vault, and the next stack I crafted I could try to research with again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void_Singer Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 the poisioning of the stack is probably a bug, but yes that's what Iwas saying, only items you craft can be learned from, not items crafted by others.... that was a measure to prevent people that hadn't done the base work for learning a schematic from getting it easier by learning from someone elses... not sure I agree with the game logic on that, but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I knew i could only learn schematics for my skills. What I was meaning was, can I only learn schematics from the items I craft personally. I bought 2 Medpacs to make a stack of 60, and my entire stack ended up showing "No research available". Even after separating out the stack, it stayed that way. I put that stack in the vault, and the next stack I crafted I could try to research with again. Craft a new one and add it to the stack and it will allow you to RE for MK parts, which should also allow you to RE for a chance at schematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeSD Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Is the "gold" medipac usable by just the Biochem character or can it be crafted and distributed across your legacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void_Singer Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Is the "gold" medipac usable by just the Biochem character or can it be crafted and distributed across your legacy? requires Biochem (at the proper level) to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (Sorry for the necroism.) Gyromaniac, that's not how chance works. 5% chance is 5% every time. Not stacked by the number of tries. Statistics Actually, Gyromaniac is correct. To fail to have one after 30 tries, at 5% success = 95% failure, you must fail all 30 times, and the probability of that is (0.95) multiplied together 30 times (that is, 30 lots of 0.95 multiplied together, so 29 multiplications), which is 0.2146 (etc.) which is 21.46% chance of the accumulated failure. The 30th try, however, is still 5% *that*time*. ((Why is it like that?)) The individual attempts are what's called "independent trials with replacement", meaning that no one trial affects the outcome of the next one, and nor is it affected by the previous one ("independent"), while the "with replacement" is more applicable to e.g. drawing cards from a deck where you do or do not put the card you drew back for the next draw. To finish the sequence with no success, you must fail *all* of them. The analysis works like this: * Fail once = 95% chance. * Fail twice = 95% chance *if and only if* you already failed once = (95% of 95%) chance from the beginning. * Fail thrice = 95% chance if and only if you already failed twice = (95% of 95% of 95%) from the beginning. ... * Fail 30 times = 95% chance if and only if you already failed 29 times = (95% of ... of 95%) from the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void_Singer Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Probably should have mentioned that calculation (95% ^ Attempts) only works for dominant odds over 50%, otherwise you have to calculate it as (1000% - [100% - non_dominant] ^ Attempts) which isn't very intuitive, but does give the right answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougKiller Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Is this broken? Already did a lot of artifacts medpacs, but never hit the 5% chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodinn Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Probably should have mentioned that calculation (95% ^ Attempts) only works for dominant odds over 50%, otherwise you have to calculate it as (1000% - [100% - non_dominant] ^ Attempts) which isn't very intuitive, but does give the right answer. I could only assume you actually meant 100% - [100% - non_dominant] ^ Attempts for success rate which is not only very intuitive, it's literally the same formula being used above. Get rid of the "dominant" and "non-dominant" notion altogether, it makes no difference at all because the calculation here is: 1) Find the probability of independently failing every time (since we're looking for 1 success only) - that's p_failure^attempts, or (1 - "chance to research the schematic")^deconstructions 2) Find the probability of this NOT happening = 1 - probability from the previous calculation. No matter if the success rate is 1% or 99.9% - the formula stays the same, the numbers are changing. For say 30 attempts that gives: At 95% failure chance the calculation would be 0.95^30=21.5% chance of not obtaining a single success in 30 trials At 5% failure chance it becomes 0.05^30=9.3e-40 chance of not obtaining a single success in 30 trials which, for all practical purposes, is a given success. That's just statistics 101, the part that is normally taught on like the very first lecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phalczen Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 what does ''Reusable'' mean? i know it's a stupid question--but i'm suspicious that it's not exactly what the term implies. In this case it means that the med pack, adrenal, or stim is not consumed upon use. For the case of 6.0 products, they are the Legendary quality versions that are reverse engineered from their artifact quality versions. Legendary quality items have a gold border around their icon in your inventory. Only biochemists can use the reusable unlimited Legendary versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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