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The changes you all hate are the reason I'm coming back to the game

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
The changes you all hate are the reason I'm coming back to the game

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
08.18.2021 , 08:03 AM | #71
So many features have already been 90% completed by the time developers ask players for feedback, so they force themselves to keep the system because they've already spent so much costly development time on it. That being said, the UI hasn't even been finished and there are many "to do" passives on the PTS and the majority of feedback revolves around just not putting abilities in the ABC system...which seems like a really simple thing to do. It is confusing to say the least.
I made a website containing notes about combat styles and ABC choices for reference while testing the PTS
Jack of all classes, master of some. Always remember that cake is a lie.

alucinorm's Avatar


alucinorm
08.20.2021 , 11:55 AM | #72
[QUOTE=Tsillah;9964888]
Quote: Originally Posted by alucinorm View Post
Why not? They've done it before.

I see that they are making people choose between skills that are loved and keeping a bunch that people don't really care about (that much). The two in question (enure and force freeze) can go for all I care. They can completely disappear, but no they're still there. In my view the ability pruning by itself is not the problem, but as usual with BW, they WAY they are doing the pruning.
yeah I'm with you, I wasn't being sarcastic. It's almost unbelievable they would go this route.

alucinorm's Avatar


alucinorm
08.20.2021 , 11:57 AM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
It’s not the first time they’ve done this. If you’d play the game non stop since development you would know this is often a theme that Bioware repeat.
Which is why many of us long term players have learnt to be careful what you wish for cause BioWare nearly always misinterpret it in their execution.
Even though you can be as black and white in your request or feed back, BioWare often only hear the part they like and then twist it to fit their vision, not players desires.
It’s why we groan when we see some player requests and feed back because we can already see how BioWare will use said requests and feed back in a different way than is being suggested.
It’s also why we get so upset over white knighting for BioWare’s ill conceived ideas because we know they will take it as a green light to mess it up across the board so no one is happy.
Why do you think we have so few servers now and why some of the current ones feel like ghost towns during parts of the day.
Yeah I get it, my bad. I wasn't trying to white knight, I was just hoping for a combat revamp that would make me enjoy it more, seems like they are ruining it for everyone.

alucinorm's Avatar


alucinorm
08.20.2021 , 11:59 AM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by RJWidowMaker View Post
That last part urks me every time. Just as bad as when you hear the line "You can't say anything negative until it releases and you get to try it". Or my favorite "Your just jumping on the hate bandwagon. Gamers hating just to hate".

No, some of us have watched this happen time and time again. If we didn't care we wouldn't speak up. In the end staying silent or being an apologist hurts gaming more than being fair with criticism and then voting with your wallet. At the very least, this time, the mistakes BW are making have pushed me to play until December so I can better remember the classes before the change.
To be fair it took a huge back and forth to get at some sensible feedback. Even assuming this point of them messing it up for everyone is completely true, taking a hardcore stance in some sort of mental play to say removing skills is terrible and my point of view is 'objective' is hardly the best approach. Had some of the points in this thread been made instead I would have been with it from the beginning BUT both bioware and the forum majority were misleading about what was going on.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.20.2021 , 09:52 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by alucinorm View Post
To be fair it took a huge back and forth to get at some sensible feedback. Even assuming this point of them messing it up for everyone is completely true, taking a hardcore stance in some sort of mental play to say removing skills is terrible and my point of view is 'objective' is hardly the best approach. Had some of the points in this thread been made instead I would have been with it from the beginning BUT both bioware and the forum majority were misleading about what was going on.
BioWare loves pitting the community against itself with ambiguous information that leaves a lot up to interpretation.

The cynic in me has sadly come to the conclusion that you can’t take BioWare at their word. You have to see / experience what they say to find the truth in what they announce.

It’s why I ALWAYS say to people they should test the changes on the PTS first before trying to interpret what BioWare said and arguing on the forum with people who’ve “actually” tested
Do you want to be a better objective pvper?
Click here for a “How to PvP Guide”

alucinorm's Avatar


alucinorm
08.21.2021 , 06:04 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
BioWare loves pitting the community against itself with ambiguous information that leaves a lot up to interpretation.

The cynic in me has sadly come to the conclusion that you can’t take BioWare at their word. You have to see / experience what they say to find the truth in what they announce.

It’s why I ALWAYS say to people they should test the changes on the PTS first before trying to interpret what BioWare said and arguing on the forum with people who’ve “actually” tested
Haha fair enough, we still wouldn't agree on what they should do about it though.

Cheers.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.21.2021 , 10:44 AM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by alucinorm View Post
Haha fair enough, we still wouldn't agree on what they should do about it though.

Cheers.
Maybe not. But it’s a step in the right direction if you want to have informed discussions.
Do you want to be a better objective pvper?
Click here for a “How to PvP Guide”

MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
08.25.2021 , 05:22 AM | #78
I'll preface this by saying I'm not a huge fan of the changes myself. I played an Operative for the longest time. Hell, for one period of time I was top DPS on my server on our parse leaderboards and 2nd for the class on the world leaderboards. Obviously parsing isn't everything, I'm saying that more to point out I've played for a while at all levels from casual play (current) to hard core progression raiding racing for world firsts, to leveling to PVP. I enjoyed having countless abilities and enjoyed being on top raiding teams as a DPS operative back when everyone thought Operatives sucked before realizing they were just very difficult when a few players dropped top parses.

So while *I* prefer the more abilities, more choices, and definitely understand the "if too complex, just take it off your bar and don't use it" stance, I will say that I recently came back because a few friends decided to try the game out and return. And while I dread the changes, I have heard him say multiple times in voice chat that he is excited for the changes. He personally has noted "I've already got a few hotbars full and I'm only in my 20s and 30s, I can't wait for a condense."

So, while I dislike the changes, I've seen players like the OP who are excited for them. And we can say "just take abilities off the bar you can clear with anything", but the truth is playing "suboptimaly" really tends to go against what most gamers, especially MMO players like to do. For whatever reason, most gamers (myself included) just don't like the idea of not using an ability or playing suboptimally if we have a choice.

In short, I dislike the changes, but I'll never say it won't appeal to others. The topic shouldn't be "nobody wants this" but more "do more people want this and are going to play it than people that hate it and might leave"? Which we can all take our guesses, but nobody knows the numbers really. (Of course we can look at past MMOs and point out things they did which is fair, but still is a guess.)

I suspect that most of us will hate the changes, but will stick around because we are already hooked. We'll grumble, we'll get used to it, we'll keep going, and the MMO expansion cycle will continue. Hell, as an Operative I remember when we had Orbital strike. When we could drop in cover. When we could throw out snipe (rarely used except in PVP if trying to soften up a sentinel/marader but still useful). When our burst included hidden strike, backstab, drop into cover and explosive probe, shiv, laceration, combat stealth, hidden strike to just nuke a poor sucker.

We've lost abilities before. We've had weird changes in expansions before. I dislike it, but I can see why they do it.
Dread Slayer Kelaeon
Concealment/Lethality Operative
Ebon Hawk