How many people are going to rip out augments and buy new kits every time they upgrade gear? Considering max iLevel will be a continually moving goal post, I can't see ever augmenting gear again. What a silly design! Is this supposed to be a new credit sink? Or did they come up with a clever design where your existing gear is upgraded, rather than being replaced with new, higher tier gear?

Under 6.0, I waited until I was in 306 to augment. Now, with operations moving to level 80, and gear progression more of a slog, I'll augment when I feel the gear is worth augmenting, which most likely being a casual sm ops player will be far from top tier. I can afford to pop the augs around, and without the caps in place, augments are that much more useful.

But you make an excellent point. SWTOR was NEVER an "end game raiding game", and NOW they're trying to push people into that content?

Except really... they just don't have the content to push people into it.

WoW and other games have several raids available every time there is a level increase (maybe just one at first, but then they release more). SWOTOR has one scheduled for level 80. That's it.

And I've never seen a raid-focused game that forced you to do old content to gear up for the new one. It's just a horrible design. When I played EQ2/Rift/WoW (granted... it was a few years ago), you geared up with new group content to help you with raid content, and that's something that's not going to be doable here (I mean - you won't be able to upgrade your flashpoint gear by doing ops, and you'll also be forced to run old content to get flashpoint gear anyway).

SWTOR is just not designed to be a game focused on raiding (which is why I've been playing, tbh), so it just makes absolutely no sense that they would gate the best gear behind ops.

Just saw the new video from SWTORista.

 

A lot of good information but most surprising is the highest gear wont be moddable

@ 6:15

Is there confirmation or denial of this?

Is this a continuation of the middle finger BW gives to crafters?

How does this work considering (at the beginning) only OPs runners will get the top gear?

Will mod recipes eventually come out so I can make my moddable gear on par with level 80 gear?

With the changes that they are making to set bonuses, maybe they they are doing this to prevent people from using cartel market gear as the set that they equip.

With the changes that they are making to set bonuses, maybe they they are doing this to prevent people from using cartel market gear as the set that they equip.

... That's a good point. But man that is such a horrible design. They could make the MODS upgradable.

... That's a good point. But man that is such a horrible design. They could make the MODS upgradable.

Imagine if they did this without adding weapons to the outfit designer. I think that is the real reason that they added weapons to it.

How many people are going to rip out augments and buy new kits every time they upgrade gear? Considering max iLevel will be a continually moving goal post, I can't see ever augmenting gear again. What a silly design! Is this supposed to be a new credit sink? Or did they come up with a clever design where your existing gear is upgraded, rather than being replaced with new, higher tier gear?

Exactly. Its just disheartening to lose this entire system.

Even if crafters can make mods and enhancements, they can only sell them to NiM Raiders, but the crafting materials will probably come from the same operation, so you will have to play the new operation if you plan to participate in crafting end game gear

I just dont get removing a system that was selling point since launch.

Exactly. Its just disheartening to lose this entire system.

 

Even if crafters can make mods and enhancements, they can only sell them to NiM Raiders, but the crafting materials will probably come from the same operation, so you will have to play the new operation if you plan to participate in crafting end game gear

 

I just dont get removing a system that was selling point since launch.

They aren’t upgrading the crafting system in 7.0, but possibly will sometime during 7.x. In the meantime there will be no new crafting schematics for end game or 7.0

How many people are going to rip out augments and buy new kits every time they upgrade gear? Considering max iLevel will be a continually moving goal post, I can't see ever augmenting gear again. What a silly design! Is this supposed to be a new credit sink? Or did they come up with a clever design where your existing gear is upgraded, rather than being replaced with new, higher tier gear?

That's EXACTLY my main concern.

Right now we can just augment ONE legacy piece and just upgrade the mods from 270 to 306, that's very straight foward and easy to understand.

In 7.0 we can't do that. I won't augment any gear if it's not permanent.

Since I won't raid in 7.0 (I can't stand prog groups anymore), I won't get max gear which isn't optimal so I won't augment any piece and not reach the stats that I want.

It does remind me of 1.0 where we had to rely on what Bioware considered good for each class. I remember Marauder having 22% critical chance while Sniper had 48% with full Battlemaster. It was a very bad system that made some classes completely overpowered for example Scoundrel's reaching 105% Surge rating while other classes were at 80% because of Bioware's lack of knowledge on how to balance stats.

Just saw the new video from SWTORista.

 

A lot of good information but most surprising is the highest gear wont be moddable

@ 6:15

Is there confirmation or denial of this?

Is this a continuation of the middle finger BW gives to crafters?

How does this work considering (at the beginning) only OPs runners will get the top gear?

Will mod recipes eventually come out so I can make my moddable gear on par with level 80 gear?

Is gear going to be bound-to-legacy?

Because without mods, you can't put gear you earn in legacy shells. Without legacy shells, gear is stuck on one character.

Will implants, which have set bonuses, be legacy bound? Can the stats be adjusted on them for different specs, even if they are?

Gear hasn't been isolated to single characters since the earliest days of 1.x. The overwhelming majority of players didn't even have more than 1 character at level 50 back then to play the 2 available Operations, EV and KP (once it was finished).

Folks now enjoy playing numerous class specs and sometimes multiple roles.

Are we going to go back to gearing as it was before Update 1.2, which introduced the legacy system and at least let us share armors/mods/enhancements between characters going forward?

Once set bonuses were tied only to armor components instead of shells (I believe this was also Update 1.2), this meant all aspects of gearing were able to be shared in a legacy expect Ear/Implants/Relics. That was then improved for the better in 6.x.

If I've missed a post somewhere that details answers to these questions, or the questions they raise about how we'll be able to gear characters, I apologize. I haven't seen clear answers anywhere, though.

Just saw the new video from SWTORista.

 

A lot of good information but most surprising is the highest gear wont be moddable

@ 6:15

Is there confirmation or denial of this?

Is this a continuation of the middle finger BW gives to crafters?

How does this work considering (at the beginning) only OPs runners will get the top gear?

Will mod recipes eventually come out so I can make my moddable gear on par with level 80 gear?

Supposedly only 334 gear will have mods. But that won't be available until the new raid is released towards the end of January.

Soooo I'm guessing that we'll all have equal access to this new gear ?? ( No I don't do raids) . I DO enjoy Heroics / FP's (like SoV before it was toned down even) ... Just not OP's and that sort of thing !!

YES ? / NO ?

The new gearing system that's coming might be a matter of concern ??? ( Just asking)

Soooo I'm guessing that we'll all have equal access to this new gear ?? ( No I don't do raids) . I DO enjoy Heroics / FP's (like SoV before it was toned down even) ... Just not OP's and that sort of thing !!

 

YES ? / NO ?

 

The new gearing system that's coming might be a matter of concern ??? ( Just asking)

We will all have access to this gear so long as we do the new raid when 7.1 drops**. I'm not clear if the higher difficulty versions of the raid will be available right when 7.1 goes live, which I believe is when 334 irating gear will be implemented. I'm also not clear on how a raider gets the mods at that point - does their entire irating need to be 334? Or will it be some sort of piece-by-piece trade in?

Since it's not going live with 7.0, they haven't given details on how it will work exactly - much less how **the other playstyles will allegedly eventually unlock moddable gear at some distant future point as the gear cap rises with later updates and their gear gets to 334. I understand why; there are so many other major changes that are coming that there's already almost too much to try to take in without dealing with even further out issues.

Wait? Moddable gear being phased out in 7.0?

Just saw the new video from SWTORista.

 

A lot of good information but most surprising is the highest gear wont be moddable

@ 6:15

Is there confirmation or denial of this?

Is this a continuation of the middle finger BW gives to crafters?

How does this work considering (at the beginning) only OPs runners will get the top gear?

Will mod recipes eventually come out so I can make my moddable gear on par with level 80 gear?

Short answer: NO

From Jackie Ko's post

Is the only way we can get moddable gear is if we can clear VM 80 OP? Is there no more min/maxing for players who can't clear the hardest content in game?

• No. Over time, as upgrade ceilings raise with new game updates, moddable gear will be accessible to all players. At 7.0’s launch there will be no moddable gear awarded above level 306
  

It is a very long thread, so people probably lost the will to read it all. Explains just about everything though.

Short answer: NO

From Jackie Ko's post

[/color]

It is a very long thread, so people probably lost the will to read it all. Explains just about everything though.

"Over time" Well we know how BW is with time "soon" etc. Thankfully I have my 306 gear as I am still unsure of the 318 gear that I tested. It didn't do as well as my 306 (even without the bonus) so racing to upgrade my gear, nope not happening

"Over time" Well we know how BW is with time "soon" etc. Thankfully I have my 306 gear as I am still unsure of the 318 gear that I tested. It didn't do as well as my 306 (even without the bonus) so racing to upgrade my gear, nope not happening

Not good is it? There were differences in ability on some of my characters in 318 gear (some good, some less so) BUT I can't be sure if that's the gear or the ability changes. My Inq and Sage were better in the 318 gear I thought. My shooter classes, not so much. Will the 318 gear appear as it was on the PTS or will they adjust the stats based on feedback and their own data I wonder?

I'm hoping the story will distract me from the gear madness*

*stop laughing!

Not good is it? There were differences in ability on some of my characters in 318 gear (some good, some less so) BUT I can't be sure if that's the gear or the ability changes. My Inq and Sage were better in the 318 gear I thought. My shooter classes, not so much. Will the 318 gear appear as it was on the PTS or will they adjust the stats based on feedback and their own data I wonder?

I'm hoping the story will distract me from the gear madness*

 

 

*stop laughing!

Comes down to how optimised your stats are. Some classes require different optimisations to work better. This is something BioWare have never done well and it’s why limiting our ability to mod in 7.0 is such a problem.

They say they will add a mods vendor in 7.1 for OPs guys, but that’s just cruel to the rest of the player base. Why can’t they add a mods vendor for each gear type in 7.1. They don’t even need to be as high irating as the OPs vendor stats.

At this stage we don’t know how long it will be till non OPs players will get access. It could be a month after or it could be 3-9 months after. All will depend on Bowares planned release of new content, like revamped pvp in 7.2. If there are development delays or new covid issues, the availability of mods for other players could stretch to many months.

So in the meantime what happens is the select few who play OPs will be able to optimise their stats and performance for any part of the game they play. That includes coming into pvp with the best optimised stats in the game against people who don’t have that option.

All this system will do is make non OPs people stop playing by the time 7.1 is released. The elite ranked guys will play OPs to gear up and ROFLSTOMP the rest of the pvp population who doesn’t do OPs because there won’t be a new ranked season till 7.2. This will drive many pvpers from the queue and the game.

BioWare really haven’t thought this through enough to realise the unintended consequence of this “step up” to irating gear grind is going to create some unfair advantages early in the year and drive more people from the game.

.All this system will do is make non OPs people stop playing by the time 7.1 is released. The elite ranked guys will play OPs to gear up and ROFLSTOMP the rest of the pvp population who doesn’t do OPs because there won’t be a new ranked season till 7.2. This will drive many pvpers from the queue and the game.

Didn't many of us point this out on the PTS forums in our feedback, yet it was ignored? And it's not just ranked that will suffer; unranked will just be premades of Ops-geared against the rest of us. It will be dire. They should have brought in PvP only gear OR make it so moddable Ops gear can't be used in PvP and a standard set common to/accessible by all players is required.

BioWare really haven’t thought this through enough to realise the unintended consequence of this “step up” to irating gear grind is going to create some unfair advantages early in the year and drive more people from the game.

I'm looking forward to non-ops players complaining about some solo aspects of the game not being balanced around crap gear, and having the fully optimized raiders going on and on about how easy it is and how everyone who isn't a NiM raider need to learn to play. /s

Didn't many of us point this out on the PTS forums in our feedback, yet it was ignored? And it's not just ranked that will suffer; unranked will just be premades of Ops-geared against the rest of us. It will be dire. They should have brought in PvP only gear OR make it so moddable Ops gear can't be used in PvP and a standard set common to/accessible by all players is required.

We’ve also said it ChrisS on discord. But he seems reluctant to admit they overlooked this. He only cares about ranked anyway. He basically laughs if you bring up regs on Discord. All he cares about is the elites in the game.

We’ve also said it ChrisS on discord. But he seems reluctant to admit they overlooked this. He only cares about ranked anyway. He basically laughs if you bring up regs on Discord. All he cares about is the elites in the game.

Why should this be any different. They have received a lot of feedback, overwhelmingly negative, and have gone into a shell about it. There is no history with this Dev team to indicate they read the feedback much less even consider acting on it. They asked us to evaluate leveling and it was terrible. There was not even a thank you post about it or any indication they understand the issue. Just crickets.

Why should this be any different. They have received a lot of feedback, overwhelmingly negative, and have gone into a shell about it. There is no history with this Dev team to indicate they read the feedback much less even consider acting on it. They asked us to evaluate leveling and it was terrible. There was not even a thank you post about it or any indication they understand the issue. Just crickets.

Oh, I 100% agree with you. It’s typical BioWare operating procedure to do exactly what you said. The reason I mentioned Discord is because some think ChrisS and BioWare only listen to that feedback, which is far from true.

The only difference with Discord is you can sometimes get a response or semi answer to questions on why they do X.

Other times it’s no different to the forums (crickets). While other times ChrisS comes across as condescending and arrogant towards players concerns or feedback.

What we need is more open two way communication on the forums to simple questions and some harder ones.

JackieKo tries to answer some (and it’s appreciated), but it’s obvious that she’s limited in what they allow her communicate with us.

I’m assuming she sees a question and asks the devs and they say you can’t tell them or they say don’t worry about it and don’t give her the info. Remember, she has to find out the answers and if the devs don’t want to tell her, she can’t answer.

It’s such a shame that Bioware have always had this institutionalised reluctance to communicate with the players properly. BioWare Devs come across as disconnected with the player base and often arrogant when they deem a response is worthy of their time.

They rarely if ever address players concerns when they do something every hates. All they say is that’s how we wanted it. And admitting a mistake is nearly unheard of until they want to change it to something worse. Ie, we told them how bad the RNG was with 6.0 gearing. So they rip it out 2 years too late and replace it with a worse system. When all they needed to do was adjust the RNG or remove it from the 6.0 system.

The same thing is going on right now with all the terrible changes they are making. Instead of addressing player concerns, they go into Ostrich mode and stick their heads in the sand. Some actual community management and discussion on why things are being done for X,Y, Z might actually help with player angst about 7.x. Instead they let players stew and unsub in protest.

We’ve also said it ChrisS on discord. But he seems reluctant to admit they overlooked this. He only cares about ranked anyway. He basically laughs if you bring up regs on Discord. All he cares about is the elites in the game.

I said many swears in real life reading this. You'd think they'd learn by now that giving us what we want (not what they like) leads to many Dollars/Pounds/Euros spent.

Some actual community management and discussion on why things are being done for X,Y, Z might actually help with player angst about 7.x. Instead they let players stew and unsub in protest.

I suspect at least some of them enjoy watching the community tear itself apart.

I suspect at least some of them enjoy watching the community tear itself apart.

If you think what's being discussed in this thread is bad, there's much worse. Hidden in the PTS thread, this was posted today:

Hi all,

 

For transparency and context for those who are reading the dev tracker only, the choosing your Combat Style for existing characters text being referenced in this thread is from the Separating Story and Gameplay article that was published a while go.

 

There's been an update to this. We originally planned to allow players to switch their primary combat style with existing characters upon loading up 7.0, unfortunately we discovered some technical hurdles that will prevent us from supporting that. So upon login, existing characters will maintain their existing Advanced Class, which will be converted into their first Combat Style. And eligible players will still be free to choose their second Combat Style.

 

The original article has been updated to reflect this.

The thread it's in

Being able to switch our current main skill to something else was a plus for those of us who wanted it, however it's not going to happen for anyone with a current character (including us altoholics with dozens of 75s we wanted to switch to a different primary spec). Many people have even been getting ready by making new characters to immediately switch them to a different primary spec.

Someone predicted that 7.0 was developed for new players/subscribers above the rest of us; seems they were right. Our loyalty is irrelevant (and unwanted). I foresee a lot of rage-quitting in the next few weeks. Seems all the 7.0 doom threads were right.