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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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Okay, not going to reply to any specific post because I'm sure it'll probably be deleted for being offensive before I can even finish typing this line. That's good, because it really WAS offensive! But anyway...

 

Something I've seen a few SGRA detractors throw out as an excuse to ban the content is the "guy playing a lesbian to get his kicks" argument. As if most of us were basement-dwelling loners who have to get jollies by seeing two girls together in a brief cut-scene, because clearly you can't find things any racier than that on the internet!

 

Even if that were the case and every single person fighting for SGRAs was just a guy wanting to see some Mako-on-Vette action...

 

... so what? Again, you're not forced to see this content unless you take the obviously labeled options that lead to it.

 

Furthermore (and again, we're living in hyperbole world where the game is played by nothing but lesbian-fetish men), this is still the addition of content! When BioWare adds PVP content, I don't fanatically oppose it or try to limit it so I can't see it. I don't argue that "PVP content? That's only added for a bunch of guys trying to make up for some inadequacies in their real lives!" Even though I do find PVP personally offensive, I don't feel the need to explain why I hate PVP and use my personal beliefs for any reason to limit in-game content.

 

Added content means more happy players. More happy players mean more money for the game. More money for the game means more resources to improve the parts YOU like.

 

I'd really like to believe that most of the player base is rational, and won't get upset at just seeing the possibility of something they don't like existing, of course.

 

 

Here's a hug! Come hang out on the couch. We've got puppies and kitties and sugar gliders! Trust me, it's better than feeding the trolls. Do you have any ideas about the possiblity of pets as a way to introduce new SGR and OGR content? I think it would help all those that are already 50 to have the chance to open up a romance arc. Say, buy it in the Fleet(the security key vendor idea is awesome!). Next to it, there would be a little note that says, "for romance" next to the pet. That way, you don't buy the wrong item and romance the wrong toon(i.e Getting Vette a kitten instead of an Underworld Good. Love Vette, but she's my lil sis) Then, I could romance DS Jaesa away and my poor SW won't be so lonely in her ship.

 

Edit: These "romance" pets would be purchasable by all people lvl 10 or up. That way, new toons(once they get their affection up with the companion to unlock flirts) can buy them up and start their romance too. No toggles, keep flirts to the left and a quick/easy way to start romances.

Edited by natashina
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No.

 

How about including same-gender content with exactly the same mechanism as currently exists for opposite-gender content already - which no one objects to in that context - and you learn to get along just like everyone else does.

 

THAT is fair.

 

Except that lots of LGBT players have voiced sentiment (in this thread and others) along the lines of "I hate having to deal with hetero flirts, why can't I have an experience that I can tailor how I want ?", and that's acceptible while those who say they don't want s/s flirts for the same reasons are skewered and called hateful or bigoted. If it's okay for someone to want only s/s flirts, why isn't it okay for someone to only want o/s flirts ?

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Here's a hug! Come hang out on the couch. We've got puppies and kitties and sugar gliders! Trust me, it's better than feeding the trolls. Do you have any ideas about the possiblity of pets as a way to introduce new SGR and OGR content? I think it would help all those that are already 50 to have the chance to open up a romance arc. Say, buy it in the Fleet(the security key vendor idea is awesome!). Next to it, there would be a little note that says, "for romance" next to the pet. That way, you don't buy the wrong item and romance the wrong toon(i.e Getting Vette a kitten instead of an Underworld Good. Love Vette, but she's my lil sis) Then, I could romance DS Jaesa away and my poor SW won't be so lonely in her ship.

 

Actually, I would love to see pets in the game expanded on, in general. Giving one as a "companion to the companion" would be a good addition for ALL romances.

 

Yes, I saw the reference to Leliana and her nug earlier in the thread. I LOVED that whole arc, and Leliana was the only character in that whole game I could romance, no matter what gender my Warden was. When Morrigan was asking me what I saw in her, I wanted to throttle the witch! What's NOT to love about Leliana? She's an adorable redhead assassin-bard that loves animals.

 

And the accent... gracious me...

 

But anyway! I think, actually, giving a particular romance gift would be a better way to start ANY companion romance than looking for a "Flirt" option in their dialogue; that way there's no possible way you could even accidentally initiate one.

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Except that lots of LGBT players have voiced sentiment (in this thread and others) along the lines of "I hate having to deal with hetero flirts, why can't I have an experience that I can tailor how I want ?", and that's acceptible while those who say they don't want s/s flirts for the same reasons are skewered and called hateful or bigoted. If it's okay for someone to want only s/s flirts, why isn't it okay for someone to only want o/s flirts ?

 

Source, please.

 

 

People have said they hate having to deal with hetero flirts as a reminder of what they can't have. Not that they have a problem with them on their own merits.

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Except that lots of LGBT players have voiced sentiment (in this thread and others) along the lines of "I hate having to deal with hetero flirts, why can't I have an experience that I can tailor how I want ?", and that's acceptible while those who say they don't want s/s flirts for the same reasons are skewered and called hateful or bigoted. If it's okay for someone to want only s/s flirts, why isn't it okay for someone to only want o/s flirts ?

 

Simple matter of equality.

 

Fact: Bioware has said this is going to be in the game.

 

Fact: We're not saying that we want to remove o/s flirts and just leave in s/s flirts. We'd like the same opportunites that OGR always has. I'd like the romance options to be equal, not to prefer one over the other.

 

Fact: While some people are uncomfortable with being hitting on the o/s, that isn't the crux of the matter. They just want equal chance to romance companions that they already care for.

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Source, please.

 

 

People have said they hate having to deal with hetero flirts as a reminder of what they can't have. Not that they have a problem with them on their own merits.

 

Yeah, I think this is speculation on AquaSky's behalf. I've never seen anyone pro-SGRA who's demanded a toggle to remove hetero options.

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No.

 

How about including same-gender content with exactly the same mechanism as currently exists for opposite-gender content already - which no one objects to in that context - and you learn to get along just like everyone else does.

 

THAT is fair.

Life isn't fair, most folks have come to terms with that.

 

A toggle makes absolutely perfect sense to me. It will allow me to choose my available dialogue options, if I don't want any I won't get those, if I want them all I get those. If I decide my toon is growing in a different direction than I had originally thought, I change the toggles.

 

It gives me the ability to play the way I want. That makes perfect sense to me. It is also just an extension of GUI options. No muss or fuss.

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Except that lots of LGBT players have voiced sentiment (in this thread and others) along the lines of "I hate having to deal with hetero flirts, why can't I have an experience that I can tailor how I want ?", and that's acceptible while those who say they don't want s/s flirts for the same reasons are skewered and called hateful or bigoted. If it's okay for someone to want only s/s flirts, why isn't it okay for someone to only want o/s flirts ?

 

I think it's not so much "I hate having to deal with hetero flirts" as "I hate having to deal with ONLY hetero flirts." I think plenty of lesbian/gay players would be fine with just ignoring the prompts to flirt with opposite gender NPCs so long as they had the opportunity to pursue flirtation with NPCs that fit their preference.

 

I have no problem with being flirted with by men in-game (but then, I'm bi, so that's kind of a given), but the lack of ability to flirt with other women frustrates me.

 

The reason a lot of the people arguing against same-gender flirts are kind of slapped around is because their arguments tend to be couched in terms of "I don't want to see that, that's gross and wrong", or "it makes me feel sick to have an option to flirt with another guy" (it's almost always guys posting anti-SGRA stuff, I've noticed).

 

Besides, it's a thread DEDICATED to discussing SGRA stuff. Bioware has already said they're GOING to put it in. Coming into the thread and expressing revulsion about the idea is akin to going into a thread dedicated to PvP and saying "Oh my god, PvP is such an incredibly stupid thing to have in a game, it should be torn out and replaced with more PvE!" You're not exactly going to be greeted with smiles and measured responses.

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Life isn't fair, most folks have come to terms with that.

 

A toggle makes absolutely perfect sense to me. It will allow me to choose my available dialogue options, if I don't want any I won't get those, if I want them all I get those. If I decide my toon is growing in a different direction than I had originally thought, I change the toggles.

 

It gives me the ability to play the way I want. That makes perfect sense to me. It is also just an extension of GUI options. No muss or fuss.

 

It's still mechanically unnecessary. You can do exactly the same just by choosing the flirt options you want as and when they arise.

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Except that lots of LGBT players have voiced sentiment (in this thread and others) along the lines of "I hate having to deal with hetero flirts, why can't I have an experience that I can tailor how I want ?", and that's acceptible while those who say they don't want s/s flirts for the same reasons are skewered and called hateful or bigoted. If it's okay for someone to want only s/s flirts, why isn't it okay for someone to only want o/s flirts ?

 

I don't remember anyone actually saying they hate opposite gender flirts for what they are, just that they hate having no equivalent option and being reminded of that unfairness at every turn. Can you maybe find some quotes of that 'cause I'm drawing a blank. I think the overwhelming majority here has actually been saying that we don't mind the flirts if we can have those that appeal to us as well.

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Okay guys, enough with the toggle debate. :jawa_mad:

 

For those of out there that aren't comfortable with it, try starting or restarting the toggle thread at the Suggestion forum. This is a dead, pulverized horse and just flame bait at this point.

 

So far, the really neat suggestions I've seen to implement the SGRs have been:

 

Move all flirts to the left hand side of the dialogue wheel. People who don't want it can just ignore it.

 

Buyable romance companion gifts. This will also prevent people accidently flirting with the wrong toon.

 

I know there is still some good ideas. Let's put out these flames, roast marshmellows and think about other ways try implement this without getting into the whole stupid toggle debate.

 

Please, I don't want to see this thread get locked for this. I know it'll be locked soon and restarted, but I'd like to see it going.

 

GO TEAM VENTURE...er...wait...:o

 

Edit: See Bioware-Austin? This is why we need an answer of some kind, instead of something from last fall..

Edited by natashina
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It's still mechanically unnecessary. You can do exactly the same just by choosing the flirt options you want as and when they arise.

But what if I don't want flirt options? Or what if I only want homosexual options? Or what if I only want heterosexual ones? Or what if I don't care and if it moves I want to try to flirt with it? Just because it isn't mechanically necessary doesn't mean it is a bad idea. Some people only want 2 bottom hotbars, others want 4. The guys who only use 2 will think the extra 2 aren't necessary, but they have the option of only using two.

Edited by Calimwulf
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But what if I don't want flirt options? Or what if I only want homosexual options? Or what if I only want heterosexual ones? Or what if I don't care and if it moves I want to try to flirt with it? Just because it isn't mechanically necessary doesn't it is a bad idea. Some people only want 2 bottom hotbars, others want 4. The guys who only use 2 will think the extra 2 aren't necessary, but they have the option of only using two.

 

Why should the developers waste time implementing something that is a) insulting, and b) unnecessary? Just slap all flirt options on the LHS of the dialogue wheel, give everyone all the choices available including three non-flirts, and be done with it. No extra development time needed, significantly less risk of introducing a bunch of new bugs, and the only people who are offended are those who are calling for the gays to be hidden away because they can't even stand the sight of such content. In which case, oh well, life isn't fair and you're in the minority, get over it. Right?

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It's also why the pro-toggle thread should never have been closed.

 

Agreed. For those of you really opposed to this idea: Restart the toggle thread regarding romances in the game in the Suggestion box. Otherwise, see my sig. :D

Edited by natashina
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Why should the developers waste time implementing something that is a) insulting, and b) unnecessary? Just slap all flirt options on the LHS of the dialogue wheel, give everyone all the choices available including three non-flirts, and be done with it. No extra development time needed, significantly less risk of introducing a bunch of new bugs, and the only people who are offended are those who are calling for the gays to be hidden away because they can't even stand the sight of such content. In which case, oh well, life isn't fair and you're in the minority, get over it. Right?

I'd caution you that you are moving away from a game feature and instead talking about social issues. That is not allowed on these boards.

 

I am strictly talking about a game feature and how it might be implemented. Since BW is spending the time to do this, they might as well do it the way I would be happiest with. I am of course the center of the universe and I should be appeased at every turn :)

 

In all seriousness, options make the most sense and putting all those options in a parental control makes even more sense.

Edited by Calimwulf
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I like being a good guy. I'm greatly offended that there is a "kill 10 civs to save the base" dark option on my convosation wheel. Please remove this cause its not my preference and i do not wish to even acknowledge that my opinions are not the center of the universe. That is all :D
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It's also why the pro-toggle thread should never have been closed.

 

I agree, it would keep a lot of the anger and rage trolling to a minimum if the thread was back.

 

@natashina The only new toggle needed is one to shut off companion helms. My Mako in her sad looking skull cap agrees :D

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I like being a good guy. I'm greatly offended that there is a "kill 10 civs to save the base" dark option on my convosation wheel. Please remove this cause its not my preference and i do not wish to even acknowledge that my opinions are not the center of the universe. That is all :D

 

:cool:

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But what if I don't want flirt options?

 

Then ignore them.

 

Or what if I only want homosexual options?

 

Only flirt with same sex characters.

 

Or what if I only want heterosexual ones?

 

Only flirt with opposite sex characters.

 

Or what if I don't care and if it moves I want to try to flirt with it?

 

Then flirt with whomever you like.

 

Just because it isn't mechanically necessary doesn't it is a bad idea. Some people only want 2 bottom hotbars, others want 4. The guys who only use 2 will think the extra 2 aren't necessary, but they have the option of only using two.

 

You're talking about extra coding that just isn't necessary. BW:A didn't see it necessary to put in a romance toggle when there were only heterosexual flirts on the table, even though they knew that not everyone would be interested in pursuing them.

 

You're not just talking about a UI option. The presence or absence of romantic options changes the way the romantic portion of the game can be played. Romance is a part of the Star Wars universe, and same sex relationships have been shown as part of EU canon. It's just as valid to expect a player to have enough maturity and sense to choose the flirts they want as it is to expect them to choose the Dark Side and Light Side choices presented to them.

 

The only two actually comprehensible arguments I've seen to date in favour of a toggle are:

 

1) "Gay stuff makes me feel squicky."

 

2) "I don't want one of my dialogue options replaced with a flirt option."

 

In order:

 

1) Get over it. Have the maturity to disregard the same sex flirt options. Your computer's not going to catch Gay.

 

2) Extremely valid point, easily solved by putting all flirt options, same or opposite sex, onto the left hand side of the dialogue wheel.

 

But as has been stated by many, including me, this is a topic that we all already know we're not going to agree on. Nobody's going to convince anyone else of their point of view just by going around in circles with this matter. All we're doing is clogging the board and making it hard to find discussion that isn't inherently flammable.

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I agree, it would keep a lot of the anger and rage trolling to a minimum if the thread was back.

 

@natashina The only new toggle needed is one to shut off companion helms. My Mako in her sad looking skull cap agrees :D

 

Or poor Vette in her Vader mask(it was medium leather and all I had for slottables at the time.)

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I agree, it would keep a lot of the anger and rage trolling to a minimum if the thread was back.

 

@natashina The only new toggle needed is one to shut off companion helms. My Mako in her sad looking skull cap agrees :D

 

I purposefully gave Kaliyo the ugliest looking helmet I could find for her, just because. :jawa_biggrin:

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You're talking about extra coding that just isn't necessary. BW:A didn't see it necessary to put in a romance toggle when there were only heterosexual flirts on the table, even though they knew that not everyone would be interested in pursuing them.

 

You're not just talking about a UI option. The presence or absence of romantic options changes the way the romantic portion of the game can be played. Romance is a part of the Star Wars universe

It could be said that adding code to make my skills flash when cool down is over wasn't 'necessary', but they did it anyway.

 

Just because in version 1, there were no options for romance or flirts off/on doesn't mean that there won't be any in version 2.

 

Romance and flirts aren't critical path. BW can do anything they want to with them.

 

What is disturbing isn't the fact that people disagree. What is disturbing is the fact that even though I support homosexual romnace arcs and flirting in the game 100% but the fact that I want options on how it is displayed, if at all causes folks to implode and explode.

 

Are you folks saying that this thread can only be posted in if there is 100% agreement?

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<brings the marshmellows and a fire extinguisher>

 

Okay, enough of these flames. Back I say!

 

I cannot stress this enough:

 

If you are opposed to SGRs and flirts, then I'm sorry, for Bioware has said it's going to be in the game.

 

If you wish to quit due to the future implementation of SGRs, then I wish you luck.

 

If you want a toggle for romance preferences, please start a new thread in the suggestion box.

 

Unless you have something to say regarding the topic of the thread, please go elsewhere. All this is doing is making both sides of the issue look bad and fight with each other. I'd rather go back to talking about kittens and sugar gliders.

 

On topic: Pets are well and good, but perhaps flowers and/or sweets in the game as well? And before someone says something, yes, guys can enjoy getting flowers too.;)

Edited by natashina
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I purposefully gave Kaliyo the ugliest looking helmet I could find for her, just because. :jawa_biggrin:

My husband did that too! But once the romance started he told me "I shouldn't have done that, I can't take the romance seriously with her looking like a strange mechanical bug" :p

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