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the 4 billion credit cap for Subscribers is worse than F2P limits

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
the 4 billion credit cap for Subscribers is worse than F2P limits

hof_th's Avatar


hof_th
02.24.2021 , 10:00 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
1. Change it so it works on a sliding scale. The more expensive something is, the higher the tax. They could cap it at 20% for stupidly high priced items.
Be careful what you wish for Trixxie, last time we had a Tax increase a lot of the prices increased too, as the sellers simply transferred the increase to the buyers.

If you really want to get prices on the GTN under control, make the deposit a percentage of the sale price that only gets refunded when an item sells. Problems with that would be that the "rich" would remain so while the "poor" would have an even harder time to catch up and it would almost certainly hurt CM sales since suddenly the sellers would run the risk of losing money and would perceive a devaluation of their CCs.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
02.24.2021 , 11:45 AM | #42
Warning: ... Massive wall of text that most will not like. Those that endure this mess will probably STILL not like it !!

There is so much of this that, while intentions might be good, is simply not the right answer. Truthfully there is no SINGLE answer that will satisfy everyone.

WHY?

Primarily since there are several points of contention which are responsible for the "state of the economy" (for lack of a better term).

** First of all it's not as bad as some would prefer to paint the picture. There are several reasons for this ... most of which are my own opinion based on RL experience which means I probably see things differently than most that are here. Therefore I'd prefer to stick to other matters which have contributed to the matter at hand.

** 10 years (well almost) .. Some players have been here 10 years uninterrupted. ( I've been here since day one ... but left for two years playing WoW ... BUT I kept up my subscription) . MANY players have learned a LONG time ago how to play the market. They have been doing so for 10 years !!. They should not be punished for being good at what they do.

That would make as much sense are restricting mega guilds to the amount of credits / player cap income / CQ's or any of the rest of it just because they're good at what they do !! The principle is the same ! Punishing either one would be wrong!! Take it for what it's worth.

** Buying Mods for gear !! Remember when we use to buy stuff (including mods) at the station ?? Heck .. that was when credits were hard to come by. I never had enough credits to do the job right either !! (and I had less time to invest as well .. that made it even harder). Now if a player wants BiS mods or amplifiers we either wait for the drop or we buy them on the GTN (from crafters). Sooo what happened to all of the credits we are no longer spending for how many years now ??

Frankly if someone is charging too many credits for ANYTHING ... I don't buy it !! PERIOD !! I know ... most people don't think that way. I'm just an odd duck (OK .. odd Buzzard !!) ... but that's just how it is !

** The purchase of CM items (in several categories) that are resold on the GTN. Here is a biggie !! And I'm about to make some folks really upset with the old man. I'm not trying to go thermal on any one or put up a bigger, higher wall between us than what already exists.. but IMO this is one of the top three reasons that so many credits have been generated and made. I can tell you for a FACT that I personally have made 4 times the profit off of stuff that folks are trading on CM merchandise being sold on the GTN than any other area (especially the last few months) ! I'm sorry ... but this is a simple cold, hard fact !!

** Crafting mats. I wouldn't even venture a guess as to how much this area has contributed to the hundreds of billions of credits being offered / sold / resold in a week on the GTN. I can also tell you that I only use about 4 mats consistently to buy / sell on the GTN in this area. Frankly I don't need any more than that. BUT just imagine what someone could do IF they WERE aggressive ... VERY AGRESSIVE !! Now do that for nearly 10 years !! I don't know about you but when those type of numbers start to run through my head ... OH MY !!
(Frankly I start to grin a little)

** Crafting finished goods. The total insanity of the cost of those goods is almost directly tied into the cost of production. Supposedly the cost is so high that almost no one wanted to mess with it !! ( I remember those posts) YIKES !! Soooo how to people afford them ?? Well frankly I DON'T !! It's just that simple.

Solution to this one ?? What would happen if we could earn those ?? Not on some world class boss .. but other means. Frankly that would be up to the development team. Frankly as BiS they would be rare. AND IMO should be bound to legacy !! (that keeps them OFF OF the GTN.) This should bring down the cost of those finished goods on the GTN that are crafted considerably.

** Gearing up is now the significant part of the content. I'm sorry .. but with the death of companions and so little else going on in game that this is where we are now !! (Hurts to say it too! I'm not trying to be nasty .. just saying !!) I think most of us would dearly love to see the game growing again !!
BTW... personal note: If the team as fixed the last FP as the patch notes have indicated .. it should be fun !! (Give credit where credit is due).

** Unexpected help:
The current gearing system (even with it's flaws) is still one of the best we have had in a while !! If the RNG stuff were "adjusted" and less RNG where we are supposed to be buying stuff from vendors is a step in the right direction to the "relief" from the inflated prices for gearing up our characters (particularly when it comes to alts). I can honestly say that I'm better geared today than ever. And frankly it is one of the best parts that I can now enjoy about the game. NO I'm not maxed out on a bunch of BiS mods nor do I have ANY of the BiS augments. BUT I am in REALLY good shape. Several of my characters are rated at 306 !

4 Billion cap ?? I'm not sure where that comes from ... but I can tell you that it's over 4 billion for Legacy bank.

Solutions:
** Put in a little effort each day ( 20 - 30 minutes should work) on the GTN. If you need help let me know !! Set goals for what you are trying to earn. Remember that as you earn more ... SAVE more !! (pretend that some of what you have is just not there. Set limits on what you will spend and STICK TO IT !! (even when it's frustrating)
** DON'T blow your credits as fast as you make them.
** Get you characters to level 75 ASAP and learn how to best use the "drops" to gear up your characters. Run Dailies / Heroics / FP's as often as you can. Collect the CQ's too !! All of this will help with gear!

Remember that after nearly 10 years ... there will be many players that have a lot more than the rest of us. I would rather not punish them for just playing the game and having fun.

YES !! There have been issues with exploits and credit sellers ... BUT those are not the only aspects to look at. We can ALL spend more time complaining and tearing down ... or we can try do something differently and try to build !

In any case .. let me apologize again! I know ... most don't agree with this. That's OK ! I'm not going thermal on anyone !! I just hope that some will read this and try to take it in the light of which I have posted it !!

Edited: ... and probably still needs work !
I sense a disturbance in the force ....
What was ... is no longer
"Tear down this wall"

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
02.24.2021 , 01:12 PM | #43
IF the developers had managed the economy appropriately, the cap would be irrelevant to all but an extreme few.

Instead, they have left in one credit exploit after another, taken little to no action against exploiters, continued to pump more and more credits into the economy without any corresponding sinks, and tacitly allowed credit farmers (bots).

And yes, given their mismanagement of the economy, they should increase the limits (easier said than done) - but as importantly, they should start managing the economy and shrink the available credits in circulation.

Or they can just continue with their mismanagement and we'll be back in a few years complaining about trillion credit limits and the absurdity of paying 50 billion for some random junk item.

SWTOR credits are the new Zimbawean dollar - worthless.

Edit to add: NOTHING you buy or sell and flip on the GTN GENERATES credits. Credits don't spawn out of thin air - the people buying all this junk for ludicrous amounts of credits got those credits from somewhere in-game.

Sure, the person you sold to might have gotten their credits from flipping items or selling CM stuff or even crafting, but track it back far enough and you find someone who has either played a long, long time and kept all their credits (amassing billions from just playing the game isn't outside the realm of possibility, but it is highly unlikely) or exploited credits or dropped a twenty on some website for a quick billion.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
02.24.2021 , 01:41 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
IF the developers had managed the economy appropriately, the cap would be irrelevant to all but an extreme few.

Instead, they have left in one credit exploit after another, taken little to no action against exploiters, continued to pump more and more credits into the economy without any corresponding sinks, and tacitly allowed credit farmers (bots).

And yes, given their mismanagement of the economy, they should increase the limits (easier said than done) - but as importantly, they should start managing the economy and shrink the available credits in circulation.

Or they can just continue with their mismanagement and we'll be back in a few years complaining about trillion credit limits and the absurdity of paying 50 billion for some random junk item.

SWTOR credits are the new Zimbawean dollar - worthless.

Edit to add: NOTHING you buy or sell and flip on the GTN GENERATES credits. Credits don't spawn out of thin air - the people buying all this junk for ludicrous amounts of credits got those credits from somewhere in-game.

Sure, the person you sold to might have gotten their credits from flipping items or selling CM stuff or even crafting, but track it back far enough and you find someone who has either played a long, long time and kept all their credits (amassing billions from just playing the game isn't outside the realm of possibility, but it is highly unlikely) or exploited credits or dropped a twenty on some website for a quick billion.
I agree at least in part with what you are saying .. and (frankly ) like where you are going. The only real disagreement I have is the "bot" thing. I'm not saying that there has never been any. BUT the large scale we are talking about ( IMO) is another matter. (just shear numbers).

Again ... not going thermal on ya ... Just asking another question or two ! (please)
** Let's say (hypothetically) that you are in a group that is WELL geared. You are able to run just about any part of the game that you want: FP's / OP's ... heroics. Out of those you have found a sweet spot. By that I mean "earning the most credits for the time invested". Out of those areas ... I can't help to wonder how many credits could be earned in one week ? Now then ... multiply times how many years ? It adds up. No bots involved! Just a lot of hard work.

** What do we spend these credits on.
A) sinks ?? We don't purchase anything in the way of gear unless they are some greens while we level up. Heck ... they aren't even available any where ? The GTN ?

B). If people are dumping a lot of credits onto the GTN .. someone else is going to figure out how to "maximize" their efforts in making those credits ??? RIGHT? And frankly it's been my experience that there are people on this game that can spend a CRAZY amount of time each day (let alone in a week / month) playing this game.

** Credit farmers are not all cheats (bots) ... See note above. Frankly they just crank them out like nobody's business !!
** Credit sellers ... IMO this one is real. BW has in the last few months tried to slow this down. I'm not sure to what success. But IMO ... this is a biggie !!

Like you said ... generating new credits ... not spending them !

(good post on your part BTW) !
I sense a disturbance in the force ....
What was ... is no longer
"Tear down this wall"

MagicTerror's Avatar


MagicTerror
02.24.2021 , 03:08 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
IF the developers had managed the economy appropriately, the cap would be irrelevant to all but an extreme few.

Instead, they have left in one credit exploit after another, taken little to no action against exploiters, continued to pump more and more credits into the economy without any corresponding sinks, and tacitly allowed credit farmers (bots).

And yes, given their mismanagement of the economy, they should increase the limits (easier said than done) - but as importantly, they should start managing the economy and shrink the available credits in circulation.

Or they can just continue with their mismanagement and we'll be back in a few years complaining about trillion credit limits and the absurdity of paying 50 billion for some random junk item.

SWTOR credits are the new Zimbawean dollar - worthless.

Edit to add: NOTHING you buy or sell and flip on the GTN GENERATES credits. Credits don't spawn out of thin air - the people buying all this junk for ludicrous amounts of credits got those credits from somewhere in-game.

Sure, the person you sold to might have gotten their credits from flipping items or selling CM stuff or even crafting, but track it back far enough and you find someone who has either played a long, long time and kept all their credits (amassing billions from just playing the game isn't outside the realm of possibility, but it is highly unlikely) or exploited credits or dropped a twenty on some website for a quick billion.
I think the best way to fix this is to simply make more valuable items available either by paying NPC vendors with large(r) amounts of credits or playing the hardest content. Screw new augment mats just give us a random silver rarity CM item now and then. If some of these high priced GTN items were easier to get outside of the GTN, their credit value would quickly go down.

Plenty of those vendors already sell semi-valuable assets, but they're often paired with a requirement of some "special" currency in addition to a moderate amount of credits. It's clear what the limiting factor is in those cases, and an economy in need of deflating would do well to make both a limiting factor.

The amplifiers were a half-baked credit sink that irritated the credit-poor players but barely made a dent in the billion-credit players accounts. Other than that plus account upgrades/character perks which people would have bought if they wanted long ago, there is no good credit sink, not a long-term one anyway.

I think crafting mats and products need to have restrictions on trading in the GTN too. The new gold augments are obvious problem areas, but in general too many people are selling their basic mats there to gradually get richer. Farming them for yourself is sufficient; we don't need them inflating credit accounts when personal crafting bot programs and day trading is all many players do for continuous stretches of time.

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
02.24.2021 , 03:25 PM | #46
A quick Google search finds the price of a billion credits retail to be somewhere around $20-$25 USD.

Even if we assume someone is very good at farming credits and can farm 10 million credits an hour, hour after hour (raw credits - not selling CM stuff or farming ranked / NiM mats), a billion credits would still take 100 hours.

And that is before deducting the fees the seller would incur such as payment fees (credit cards / PayPal / whatever) and fees to the person or organization or whatever behind the credit selling site.

So I am to believe there are players spending 100 hours for less than $20?

I find that highly doubtful.

Exploits that allow someone to gain far more credits an hour than is possible with general (non-exploitive) gameplay and bots that can run 24 / 7 unattended - that I can believe.

EDIT TO ADD: I mentioned the mats as one of the proposed hypothetical ways large amounts of credits were being generated by actual players was well-geared groups running group content.

I can't think of any content that provides anywhere near millions per player per hour in raw credits (absent exploits) - and any geared group capable of running all content would most likely focus on farming ranked and NIM for mats to sell to others or selling services such as runs for achievements, titles, and mounts.

mike_carton's Avatar


mike_carton
02.24.2021 , 03:35 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
So I am to believe there are players spending 100 hours for less than $20?

I find that highly doubtful.
People have been playing for nearly 10 years. If you pick up all the loot drops and sell them, save money and spend wisely, it is easy to make multiple billions in that time.

Log into your main character and type /played in the chat.
A "Forum troll" posts outrageous messages to bait people into answering, to sow discord and to derail the discussion. Don't feed the troll, add to your Ignore List.

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
02.24.2021 , 03:58 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by DawnAskham View Post
A quick Google search finds the price of a billion credits retail to be somewhere around $20-$25 USD.

Even if we assume someone is very good at farming credits and can farm 10 million credits an hour, hour after hour (raw credits - not selling CM stuff or farming ranked / NiM mats), a billion credits would still take 100 hours.

And that is before deducting the fees the seller would incur such as payment fees (credit cards / PayPal / whatever) and fees to the person or organization or whatever behind the credit selling site.

So I am to believe there are players spending 100 hours for less than $20?

I find that highly doubtful.

Exploits that allow someone to gain far more credits an hour than is possible with general (non-exploitive) gameplay and bots that can run 24 / 7 unattended - that I can believe.

EDIT TO ADD: I mentioned the mats as one of the proposed hypothetical ways large amounts of credits were being generated by actual players was well-geared groups running group content.

I can't think of any content that provides anywhere near millions per player per hour in raw credits (absent exploits) - and any geared group capable of running all content would most likely focus on farming ranked and NIM for mats to sell to others or selling services such as runs for achievements, titles, and mounts.
Hmm, if I'm not busy with anything else, or sitting in my recliner waiting for a migraine to pass, I can put in 100 hours in a couple of weeks, 2 1/2 on the outside, and I've been playing since RotHC. I also don't have a billion credits, but I'd be willing to bet I've spent considerably more than that during my time playing. Never had to hit a gold farmer once. In fact, I've never had to hit a gold farmer in any of the MMOs I've ever played.

Why don't I have a billion credits? Well, yesterday I spent 4 million on PvE Space upgrade schematics. Did I need 'em? Not really, but I had the credits, and they were there, so now they're mine. I spent 1.8 million opening up rooms in my Tat SH last week, or maybe the week before, not sure. That's not counting the probably billions I've spent sending comps out on gathering missions since I started playing, or the probably billions I've spent at the crew skill vendor getting various components for crafting.

I guess the short of it is, I really don't care what you believe, but this scenario you're painting about how it's unlikely that people got their money through legit means is just wrong. There are, undoubtedly, people that did spend that cash on some credits, but just painting everyone with that brush because you can't see it happening? Nah...
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
02.24.2021 , 04:00 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by mike_carton View Post
People have been playing for nearly 10 years. If you pick up all the loot drops and sell them, save money and spend wisely, it is easy to make multiple billions in that time.

Log into your main character and type /played in the chat.
Agreed 100 %. Not everyone who has "billions" is a bot cheat !!

And I might add:

I'm average AT BEST !! I know how many credits I had a little over 2 years ago . I decided to do something about it ! I can only imagine what someone with a lot more dedication to the game can and WILL do !

In any case there are a lot of players who have put a LOT more into crafting and running the right types of missions while being a part of some pretty good guilds. AND they made a bundle of credits doing it !!

I do NOT fault anyone for doing their best in a game ! That simple! If I need to make a more focused effort in order to succeed then that's on me !!

As for the other stuff that goes on ! IMO ... someone just needs to stop and take out the trash !! That will help everyone !!

Several people have posted some really good suggestions as to how to get on top of the "credit wars" ! I have received more than one PM thanking me for the help.

I might also suggest that there are ways we can help each other sort this out !!

As for the matter of credit sellers ... sounds like it's time to take out the trash again !!
I sense a disturbance in the force ....
What was ... is no longer
"Tear down this wall"

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
02.24.2021 , 05:13 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
Hmm, if I'm not busy with anything else, or sitting in my recliner waiting for a migraine to pass, I can put in 100 hours in a couple of weeks, 2 1/2 on the outside, and I've been playing since RotHC. I also don't have a billion credits, but I'd be willing to bet I've spent considerably more than that during my time playing. Never had to hit a gold farmer once. In fact, I've never had to hit a gold farmer in any of the MMOs I've ever played.

Why don't I have a billion credits? Well, yesterday I spent 4 million on PvE Space upgrade schematics. Did I need 'em? Not really, but I had the credits, and they were there, so now they're mine. I spent 1.8 million opening up rooms in my Tat SH last week, or maybe the week before, not sure. That's not counting the probably billions I've spent sending comps out on gathering missions since I started playing, or the probably billions I've spent at the crew skill vendor getting various components for crafting.

I guess the short of it is, I really don't care what you believe, but this scenario you're painting about how it's unlikely that people got their money through legit means is just wrong. There are, undoubtedly, people that did spend that cash on some credits, but just painting everyone with that brush because you can't see it happening? Nah...
I wasn't suggesting everyone with a billion credits or more is a cheater - I have billions just like many players that have played the game for years.

However, I'm also certain that most of my credits have come from selling stuff to other players (mostly crafting, some flipping), not from any credits earned on missions or looted from enemies (in other words, most of my credits came from someone else with credits, not the game itself).

So no, I still don't believe most of the excessive credits chasing items on the GTN driving the silly inflation originated from players looting every enemy and completing a bunch of missions over time.

And just because you have never seen a gold farmer in any game doesn't mean they don't exist - I mean where do you think the sellers advertising 1 billion credits for $20 bucks get their stock?