Key word - Complete

If you stick around till the end of the match, you complete the match; therefor you should get credit towards your quest It's nearly impossible to fail the veteran FP daily/weeklies in a single go. So why should the pvp quests, which you complete by being there for the whole match be any different?

 

Key phrase - Complete the objective, which is to win.

You can stick around until the end of the match by going afk at a node and you're doing your team absolutely no good.

why is it fair that someone can complete their dailies by sitting around doing nothing when other members of the team are trying to succeed?

Stop making excuses for players to be lazy when they should be held accountable for contributing to a loss by not getting rewarded.

Honestly, I'd just like to be able to play PvP again. Going to order the rest of the parts for my new computer tomorrow. The processor and motherboard have already arrived.

 

After being out of PvP for so long, I don't think I will feel disgruntled by situations I do not like for awhile once I return. I just want smooth frames and to perform in PvP to my satisfaction.

Key word - Complete

If you stick around till the end of the match, you complete the match; therefor you should get credit towards your quest It's nearly impossible to fail the veteran FP daily/weeklies in a single go. So why should the pvp quests, which you complete by being there for the whole match be any different?

 

Participation in a match is not the same as completion. Participation is just being in the match. Completion is winning the match (under the current rules).

 

By your example, completion in PvE would be like sitting at the load-in-point and doing nothing in the flashpoint, not even killing a boss and expecting to get rewarded after a timer ended. Tying the rewards to a win is like expecting a group to clear a flashpoint.

Key phrase - Complete the objective, which is to win.

You can stick around until the end of the match by going afk at a node and you're doing your team absolutely no good.

why is it fair that someone can complete their dailies by sitting around doing nothing when other members of the team are trying to succeed?

Stop making excuses for players to be lazy when they should be held accountable for contributing to a loss by not getting rewarded.

 

So if I sit on a node and do nothing because no one comes to the node, but I stay on my keyboard, alert and ready, is that lazy? If we lose that match, do I get screamed at for doing nothing to help, even though I was guarding the node and nothing happened?

 

I don’t see you yelling about GSF, where the system is still about matches completed instead of matches won. And I don’t see people being lazy there. Why changed one mode of PvP and not the other?

 

Also, if a person goes afk for the whole match while the rest of the team tries hard, and the team loses, guess what? Under the old system, everyone on the team would’ve gotten some credit toward the dailies or weeklies. Not just the one guy. So it’s like, who gives a damn if someone gets lazy when everyone is still going to benefit in some way?

 

As for the whole “PvE is about completion, not participation, so PvP should be as well”, do you not see the massive gap in difficulty between fighting a dumb AI and fighting a person? The majority of the issues that are present in PvP just don’t apply to PvE in the slightest. Some things crossover, mostly related to just bad pugs, but they still try to succeed and get fairly far.

So if I sit on a node and do nothing because no one comes to the node, but I stay on my keyboard, alert and ready, is that lazy? If we lose that match, do I get screamed at for doing nothing to help, even though I was guarding the node and nothing happened?

 

I don’t see you yelling about GSF, where the system is still about matches completed instead of matches won. And I don’t see people being lazy there. Why changed one mode of PvP and not the other?

 

Also, if a person goes afk for the whole match while the rest of the team tries hard, and the team loses, guess what? Under the old system, everyone on the team would’ve gotten some credit toward the dailies or weeklies. Not just the one guy. So it’s like, who gives a damn if someone gets lazy when everyone is still going to benefit in some way?

 

As for the whole “PvE is about completion, not participation, so PvP should be as well”, do you not see the massive gap in difficulty between fighting a dumb AI and fighting a person? The majority of the issues that are present in PvP just don’t apply to PvE in the slightest. Some things crossover, mostly related to just bad pugs, but they still try to succeed and get fairly far.

 

So obviously i need to clarify because you have trouble understanding, thats ok, my fault.

Sitting on a node and going afk does not imply guarding a node, otherwise i would have said *Guarding a node*

As for the rest of your post, you're just salty because now you're expected to earn your reward and it won't be given to you as a participation trophy.

As for the whole "massive gap in difficulty between fighting an AI and fighting a person"

well, BW is the one who removed expertise and tried to put both aspects of the game on the same plane.

If you don't like it, then continue on with your flashpoints and if you can sit and afk at the load in area while the other 3 members of your team clear the FP and you get the rewards, by all means continue exploiting laziness.

Have a great day!

...

 

How would you feel about the daily being the acquisition a number of certain medals during pvp (which could promote actual participation...and maybe such a daily could offer standard daily rewards) and a BONUS that requires at least a win. The bonus would be the real prize: standard daily rewards AND a good chance at augment materials for the new augments?

 

Spitballing. I may not have described my thought clearly enough...so there could be room for clarification, but it appears to be cogent as of now.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Sappharan

How would you feel about the daily being the acquisition a number of certain medals during pvp (which could promote actual participation...and maybe such a daily could offer standard daily rewards) and a BONUS that requires at least a win. The bonus would be the real prize: standard daily rewards AND a good chance at augment materials for the new augments?

 

Spitballing. I may not have described my thought clearly enough...so there could be room for clarification, but it appears to be cogent as of now.

 

I would suspect you're right back at making failure the way to advance the mission rewards. Folks will just go 'defend' (stand around, actually) at an objective and never bother to try to win a match.

I was a fan of the changes for about a week. But now, not so much. 90% of the matches I get into are losses. Premades in almost every match, which most of the time guarantees a loss. Then you have the matches that have split up their premade group and put them on both teams. That is actually worse because the ones you get stuck with are no help to your team against the other members of the premade on the opposing team. The toxicity that these premades bring to the equation is just as bad as the premades themselves in regs. It’s running off a large portion of the player base who enjoy regs. Most new players to the game try PVP for a couple matches and then decide that it’s no fun and don’t ever mess with it again. Leaving us with a smaller more toxic PvP Community.

they queue for number farming.. that may be ridiculous mindset from your perspective, but there are a lot of people who do nothing else... and i dont blame them

 

the deathmatches have always happened a lot on every server. the change for a win requirement for quest progress doesnt do anything because people dont care for a lousy weekly or daily which gives you nothing useful at all.

due to that regs have become meme content.

if you really had a NICE reward with winning requirement people would take it more seriously but toxicity levels will go up...

some crates which you can get from fps aswell dont do the trick.

 

the intention of win requirements is definetly reducing afkers, numberfarmers and trolls... but seriously if number farming is more attractive to people than the rewards... it will do nothing.

 

mindless pvp really started with the removal of pvp gear and the introduction of unassembled components... it flooded pvp with casual pvers who just wanted to farm components. the quality of the matches really decreased from this point on and many people who liked playing regs left the game because it wasnt fun anymore.

 

the removal of win requirements will make it easier to complete quests and what else?

will it increase the quality of games... absolutely not.

 

I understand what you're saying even if I don't agree with all of it. The thing is in terms of the number of "mindless matches" like you call them, I have seen no change whatsoever. You know what has changed? The number of PVP players, which has definitely decreased, not to mention an increase in premade groups.

 

Although the removal of win requirements won't increase the quality of games, you're right about that, what it does do is increase the PVP population, bc its a mechanic friendly to new players and casuals. Ofc everyone can come here and say that they'd rather have few meaningful matches than a lot of mindless ones, but no one really wants to waste 30 min in a queue for a match, get an arena, and fight another premade.

 

My point is: no win requirement increases the PVP population, while a win requirement adds nothing to PVP, it doesn't decrease the number of mindless matches, it doesn't increase their quality either, so it's simply hurting its population.

My point is: no win requirement increases the PVP population, while a win requirement adds nothing to PVP, it doesn't decrease the number of mindless matches, it doesn't increase their quality either, so it's simply hurting its population.

 

I am sorry, but I disagree. Since the win requirement was introduced, I have seen the quality of matches increase significantly. Regs are fun again and have been very competitive.

 

Yesterday, I started my pvp day with my sniper, which to be honest, I am awful with and did not win much. After getting absolutely destroyed on more than one occasion, I swapped to a character I am much more familiar with. After doing so, I started winning. My point is you people cannot expect easy wins on toons that you are just so-so with now. Regs are about the group and being productive in that group. There are too many good players, on all servers, to expect just to coast through matches now. A group is only as strong as its weakest link......don't be that link.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Nickodemous

I am sorry, but I disagree. Since the win requirement was introduced, I have seen the quality of matches increase significantly. Regs are fun again and have been very competitive.

 

Well I guess it depends on each player's experience really, but I haven't noticed a significant increase in match quality at all, then again I never really got all that many mindless matches before. It depends.

 

Yesterday, I started my pvp day with my sniper, which to be honest, I am awful with and did not win much. After getting absolutely destroyed on more than one occasion, I swapped to a character I am much more familiar with. After doing so, I started winning. My point is you people cannot expect easy wins on toons that you are just so-so with now. Regs are about the group and being productive in that group. There are too many good players, on all servers, to expect just to coast through matches now. A group is only as strong as its weakest link......don't be that link.

 

Who is you people? And how is this relevant to anything I said? My point isn't if it is fair or not. My point is that I personally haven't seen an increase in match quality, what I have seen is longer queues. This change not only decreases the pvp population but also makes pvp less friendly for beginners, which is one of the points of regs. This supposed increase in quality becomes even more ridiculous when you consider that the rewards are trash. Like another poster has said before: win requirement isn't enough, you'd need at least proper rewards aswell.

Edited October 7, 2020 by JJKerryee

I like to play multiple toons. It sucks completing one daily in 15 min for one character and farming the next daily for 6 friggin' hours because his gear is 270. It's stupid and only serves to waste my time and let my membership lapse. The changes only serve to alienate casual players. Why? Ranked is already there for the hardcore pvpers. Why make things worse for the casual player?

 

They implemented the win requirement because 8v8 regs was 90% number farming matches. At least with the win requirement more people will try to get those W's instead of thinking they can do big d*ck dps/hps. Now the lockout timer of 15 minutes for leaving a warzone early is ridiculous. It should be 5 minutes max if they insist on having it.

I was a fan of the changes for about a week. But now, not so much. 90% of the matches I get into are losses. Premades in almost every match, which most of the time guarantees a loss. Then you have the matches that have split up their premade group and put them on both teams. That is actually worse because the ones you get stuck with are no help to your team against the other members of the premade on the opposing team. The toxicity that these premades bring to the equation is just as bad as the premades themselves in regs. It’s running off a large portion of the player base who enjoy regs. Most new players to the game try PVP for a couple matches and then decide that it’s no fun and don’t ever mess with it again. Leaving us with a smaller more toxic PvP Community.

 

The toxicity has been there since launch 2011 so that's really not a good argument at all. Stop queuing solo, get some friends. Maybe that's a problem for you in real life, but on an mmo you might be able to get someone to like you and group up.

They implemented the win requirement because 8v8 regs was 90% number farming matches. At least with the win requirement more people will try to get those W's instead of thinking they can do big d*ck dps/hps. Now the lockout timer of 15 minutes for leaving a warzone early is ridiculous. It should be 5 minutes max if they insist on having it.

 

I agree with the reasons for the changes, just not what they implemented as it’s too draconian in both aspects.

 

1. To incentivise winning more than number crunching, they could have adjusted the ratio of win : loss points from 2:1 to 3:1 or 4:1. That way people would still have a reason to try to win, but wouldn’t feel like they aren’t progressing their daily/weekly if they keep getting bad teams (from no fault of their own).

 

Constantly losing and not progressing is a massive turn off, especially when you have no control over a pug team if you queue solo (not everyone wants to premade and should not be penalised if they choose not to).

 

2. Another thing they could do is to remove the score board dmg/heal/protection stats from public view. They could still show kills, objective points and medals on the board while keeping the other stats private so only the player can see their own stats.

 

3. Increasing the rewards for winning or for the amount of medals you get would also be more of an incentive to win.

 

Add all three of these changes and there is a lot of incentive to win more than farming numbers.

 

I also agree that 15mins lockout is too long. But I think 5 mins is too short because the wait between some matches is only 5 mins and wouldn’t be a deterrent. I would propose it being 10 mins or at the minimum, 8 minutes.

Well I guess it depends on each player's experience really, but I haven't noticed a significant increase in match quality at all, then again I never really got all that many mindless matches before. It depends.

 

Who is you people? And how is this relevant to anything I said? My point isn't if it is fair or not. My point is that I personally haven't seen an increase in match quality, what I have seen is longer queues. This change not only decreases the pvp population but also makes pvp less friendly for beginners, which is one of the points of regs. This supposed increase in quality becomes even more ridiculous when you consider that the rewards are trash. Like another poster has said before: win requirement isn't enough, you'd need at least proper rewards aswell.

 

First, the second part of that was not directed towards you.

 

PVP is about winning, not about just participating, I am perfectly fine with the current state. These changes have not affected the community in the least, at least from my experience. Also, I just don't see how the weekly has anything to do with whether or not a new person will pvp or not. The quality has most certainly improved. You make it sound like every match is trash now when that is just not the case.

 

I do agree that the rewards are underwhelming and that it IS NOT enough per the wins.

 

Just an observation: Matches are very different on the two US servers. SF - seems to be all or nothing. SS - much more competitive. SF has a lot more lopsided matches vs SS. I guess it because most of the new players have flocked there.

I agree with the reasons for the changes, just not what they implemented as it’s too draconian in both aspects.

 

1. To incentivise winning more than number crunching, they could have adjusted the ratio of win : loss points from 2:1 to 3:1 or 4:1. That way people would still have a reason to try to win, but wouldn’t feel like they aren’t progressing their daily/weekly if they keep getting bad teams (from no fault of their own).

 

Constantly losing and not progressing is a massive turn off, especially when you have no control over a pug team if you queue solo (not everyone wants to premade and should not be penalised if they choose not to).

 

2. Another thing they could do is to remove the score board dmg/heal/protection stats from public view. They could still show kills, objective points and medals on the board while keeping the other stats private so only the player can see their own stats.

 

3. Increasing the rewards for winning or for the amount of medals you get would also be more of an incentive to win.

 

Add all three of these changes and there is a lot of incentive to win more than farming numbers.

 

I also agree that 15mins lockout is too long. But I think 5 mins is too short because the wait between some matches is only 5 mins and wouldn’t be a deterrent. I would propose it being 10 mins or at the minimum, 8 minutes.

 

I almost always agree with your posts.

First, the second part of that was not directed towards you.

 

PVP is about winning, not about just participating, I am perfectly fine with the current state. These changes have not affected the community in the least, at least from my experience.

You cannot claim the changes haven't affected the community just bc you haven't experienced it. I certainly have experienced longer queues and not a significant improvement in matches. (Not that I found them significantly lacking in quality before.)

 

Also, I just don't see how the weekly has anything to do with whether or not a new person will pvp or not.

Quite Simple. Let's imagine a likely scenario. You're a new player (still learning your class, don't know maps), don't have a special love for PVP, just want to try it out. You lose 4 times in a row. What do you have to show for your hard work, these days? An empty daily, an empty weekly, and a few adrenals. Do you think someone in this situation is likely to come back to PVP any time soon? This isn't something out of the ordinary either, SWTOR gets a lot of casual players, and these players are a substantial part of the PVP community too.

 

The quality has most certainly improved.

I thought the changes hadn't affected the community in the least?

 

You make it sound like every match is trash now when that is just not the case.

This statement is just false, I even said I never noticed a big number of "mindless" matches before the changes, so why would I complain about that now? My point has always been about the cost vs benefit of these changes and how I don't feel they are worth it unless they are incentivized with at least better rewards. What "you are experiencing now" doesn't even make any sense. Why would people actually try to take things more seriously and compete more just so they could do a weekly that is not only more difficult to complete but also has the same trash rewards? Boggles the mind.

 

Just an observation: Matches are very different on the two US servers. SF - seems to be all or nothing. SS - much more competitive. SF has a lot more lopsided matches vs SS. I guess it because most of the new players have flocked there.

I wouldn't know. I'm not on any of those servers. Perhaps that is the reason we have such different experiences.

Edited October 11, 2020 by JJKerryee

One thing I could suggest, if playing regs and you aren't fully geared at level 75 ie 306, no rewards for loss.

 

Perhaps consider too if no kills no rewards either, the real problem is the number of afk and undergeared players who play to be either carried or just helping their buds on the other side. Now the issue is those who are actively playing but say defending, Im not sure how best to not punish that, perhaps he/she who caps and defends gets the loss point

 

If BW would consider this Id accept a change back. Otherwise we are just back where we started where a lot of the whining are the afk players who just trying to pve via pvp. Im plain sick of it and wish this was just not tolerated by anyone

3 years ago if you pugged it (like going solo) even if you knew you were going to lose there was at least SOME incentive to put forth some effort. I mean a lot of the time it was as simple as one side had healing...

 

Coming back now, its definitely not like I remember. Maybe the population dropped severely, I dunno. But, I do remember it used to be pretty common place to see plenty of people in the pvp section on fleet. Definitely not the case now.

all you people who are complaining soooo hard about premades:

 

what do you think happens, when you split those guys up?

 

a) they get on the same team anyway and nothing changes

b) they get on seprate teams and play super competitive and fair

or

c) they get on seprate teams and have a "pact of honor" where they dont attack each other

d) they are just tunneling each other to mess with their friends

 

i can tell you that b) is the most unlikely scenario...

 

if you are solo player going to war you should not expect to win. its the same in any group based game.

even if you are not q'ing together you may see a friend of yours in your team ,you know on which TS / discord they are and suddenly there isnt a premade, but still the people are in voice com and they are kicking your butt because they coordinate their assault...

 

to remove the win requirement only leads to mindless deathmatches, as people who care about their rewards have only little incentive to actually try to win.

 

i think the incentive for winning is still too low.

they should add a type of pvp currency which allows you to buy operation locked gear (apex predator etc)

you only get it if you win and you actually get useful stuff

this would lead to a lot of skilled nim raiders flooding the q and actually playing for the win.

 

i personally dont care about finishing my weeklies or dailies as i dont get anything useful from them.

hence why i barely play pvp anymore. if i play its for ***** an giggles. that doesnt mean i am not trying to win.

i just like winnnin

 

 

a lot of the people who complain they cant win for 6 hours straight have to question themselves, if it really isnt their fault. because i know no one who has such bad bad luck.

 

If the basis of your argument is not to play as a solo player, you're literally asking for the death of pvp.

You're essentially expecting every participant to be part of some raid group (except for pvp). Have you ever setup a raid? Finding people for roles, making sure everyone has there gear, making sure everyone's ready, making sure people aren't afk attending to life stuff....

 

I've won and lost pvp in premades, pugs and solo - but if I only participated by going through all the prep of having a dedicated group - I would have never entered the arena.

I wouldn't know. I'm not on any of those servers. Perhaps that is the reason we have such different experiences.

 

Agreed.

 

My experience this week:

 

SF - completed the weekly on 3 characters. It blows my mind how populated that server is at times. At one point, this past Saturday, there were 6-7 fleets open.

 

SS - completed the weekly on 3 characters. SS is a little smaller population wise, normally at peak times there are 2 - maybe 3 fleets open.

 

So yes, we may be comparing apples to oranges.

This statement is just false, I even said I never noticed a big number of "mindless" matches before the changes, so why would I complain about that now? My point has always been about the cost vs benefit of these changes and how I don't feel they are worth it unless they are incentivized with at least better rewards. What "you are experiencing now" doesn't even make any sense. Why would people actually try to take things more seriously and compete more just so they could do a weekly that is not only more difficult to complete but also has the same trash rewards? Boggles the mind.

 

I couldn't agree more, but rewarding for loss should only be progression of the mission. Was fine when the weekly was 20 Warzones win or loss. Wins counting as two. But Wins only and not advancement of the quest. I can do 2 Vet FPs or Solo a Vet Uprising and get 3 times the awards from doing 1 winning warzone. No point to queuing warzones anymore...

I couldn't agree more, but rewarding for loss should only be progression of the mission. Was fine when the weekly was 20 Warzones win or loss. Wins counting as two. But Wins only and not advancement of the quest. I can do 2 Vet FPs or Solo a Vet Uprising and get 3 times the awards from doing 1 winning warzone. No point to queuing warzones anymore...

 

This, I find it easier to run a quick vet fp because you get better rewards that make it worth the time and effort, and the fact that toxicity is rarer in PVE, is a nice bonus.

 

It's also why I've had a weekly warzone in my mission log for the past two months. I'll run a daily warzone whenever I feel like it, which with PVP's current state has shrunk to maybe once every two weeks or not even that. The Austin team needs to incentivize PVP, so newcomers have a reason to try out PVP and stick with it.

 

Fixing the rewards, so a loss counts towards weekly and daily would be a good start, but I'd also suggest adding in something else. Put out some unique armor or weapons, like the old war-hero sets you could get during 1.0.

As a returning player myself, I completely agree with you. I used to enjoy (unranked) PvP, but now the win requirement just sucks the fun completely out of it. Before the change, getting a bad match-up and end up losing because of it, you could just "take it on the chin" and move on (or even have some fun) as you were still getting some progress.

 

Now with the "do or die", there truely isn't any incentive to play PvP, unless you're running a premade and focusing only on winning, rather than being able to enjoy some random shenanigans with a random group of people online.

 

I really don't get why unranked PvP has to be so "serious business", rather than a place to have fun and learn how to PvP? Do Bioware think this will somehow get people more engaged to PvP and/or more competitive, by making it less fun and punishing mistakes, rather than rewarding participation and having fun? Sure, for that small minority of very skilled players, for whom playing with anyone of less skill (on their own team) is painful, it's probably an awesome change. For those who aren't very skilled or play for other reasons than to become a PvP-legend, I really don't see any appeal in this change.

 

Totally same for me. Dont know why we must make a big mush about unranked pvps. Let the win factor on for Ranked pvp, which i totally fine. From 5 bgs, 3 are arena 4v4-s, where my team is always less than 4 people. How should i have fun if i already start with disadvantage?

Edited October 29, 2020 by Nikoru

with 3 fleets open you may at least get some wins or interesting matches due to the mass of people q-ing...

Now zoom in to Tulak Hord... prime time is one full fleet and a second one with 20 peeps max, sometimes not even one full fleet...

the names and MOs in pvp are always the same... you know that you will *********** lose, no matter how hard you try, because we have all the try.hards and number crushers usually against us... i (was) a high-frequency pvp-heal, fairly good,... since 6.1.4 i stopped q-ing ...

i have the weekly from two weeks ago still sitting at 8/10, unthinkable prior to 6.1.4... same with GSF which has even less players...c ombine that with servers who LOVE to disconnect you to the server list during the BG loading screen, blessing you with 15 mins lockout and you can imagine how fun PvP on TH is... it s not... at all...

no new players, ranked people flooding regs, because no one will list ranked or provide them with opponents... PVP the way it is for now, is dead... don t think i ll be resubbing since that was a major part of my swtor experience and now that this experience turned sour / has changed to an unpleasant experience ( DUE TO IMPLEMENTED CHANGES) there s really no need to stay subbed...

 

Horrible design decissions implemented amateurly... i won t be paying for any kind of not warranted, uncalled for punishment, that came out of the blue...

Instead of the long needed, demanded and sense-making WZ-choice button, we get... this... were you my dev-team... i d reprimanded one half and prolly let the other half go... no publisher would/should make / implement decissions that are not asked for, and make for a worse gaming experience for the customer... that was a really bad job actually

Edited October 30, 2020 by Dimitir