The problem with the balance is they keep changing level sync every expansion, requiring that they rebalance it every time. 5.0 had a hard cap, no matter what your item level. 6.0 had a hard cap except 272-306 when you could get up to 30 stacks of bonus stats. 7.0 has no hard cap, but heavy percentage reduction. They should just stick with one and polish it. No need to reinvent it every expansion.

Agree. They should figure out some proper scale down formula and stick to it.

Something like leaving the tertiary stats unaltered, keeping the bonus we get through datacrons and achievements, and cap each planet to it's level.

why not just raise the level on the planets ?

Maybe do a consensuses of what levels players are at, and adjust the planet level.

could add a feature to pause leveling.

Tatooine on, I'm over planet level, just doing Class missions, some WZ and GSF, No side missions, No Planet story missions, No Operations, and No FP. And I'm still over planet level.

I do use XP boost the first 20 levels, because I need level 20 as soon as I can, but after level 20, NO XP boost.

Double XP (when it Comes) , Oh my, you're stuck with level sync

I understand level sync, not asking to remove it, just it bites to be forced into it just playing the game, I mean whats the point leveling up and upgrading gear, if it just makes you weaker

I agree the way it determines stats is annoying, in PVP also especially.

I don't understand, and maybe someone that works for bioware can tell me, why things aren't in percentages?

I.e. the crit rating, alacrity , all the adrenals, etc, all that stuff to me should be more like the warzone adrenals where it does a % of what you have like heals for % of health instead of some random number for everything. That would make some older models of things more useful. Instead of all these crit rating alacrity rating etc it could just be %, and then it would be easier to scale based on whatever the max limit of that planet or zone is. Gear could have 0.5% crit or something on it instead of a rating. This might even make using some older gear mixing and matching with newer gear to get different % ratings, that would be fun instead of being locked into a specific set of gear and really having NO good options to customize any more. the 300 augs help but there's still barely any room to move around tertiary stats , there's a predetermined best amount for everything (talking about crit, alac, accuracy mostly). Would be cool to be able to min/max things like force power or tech power. Where did all that customization go? Cleaning this up would help with the level sync as well as numerous other things IMO.

But I digress, i think level sync should go based on percentages and not raw stats because stats scale differently depending on what level you are . I guess this would be hard to implement but it would be cool.

I think recently they made it so level sync doesn't change your alacrity % ? I know something changed there because i have more % now when i scale down

I'm going to counter this by saying.

ps as a preface i have not read all the comments; i'm just replying to the title.

Level sync is THE ONLY REASON I STICK AROUND.

Let me explain.

I started off in everquest; and every expansion the level cap went up, the gear went up and there was new content; But the content was geared towards a HUGE level range, you could start raiding at level 46 and you were still raiding the same content at level 50, then 60 then 70; because they were the only places you could get certain drops for your epic gear which was still best in slot even after 4 expansions.

Then i played world of warcraft, and what a change that was, now every expansion made all the old content absolutely irrelevant; by the time wraith of the lichking released NO ONE wanted to run karasaan no matter how good it was, no matter how much people loved it, because all the gear that dropped there was WORTHLESS in light of the new gear that dropped from the trash mobs at the start of the expansion, let alone the raid gear at the new end game; and I rage quit WoW because of that and never went back.

SWTOR has found a middle ground between these two extremes; where all the content is relevent all the time; and the gear drops you get are always level appropriate and you do content BECAUSE YOU LIKE IT; because it's challenging and because the gear is the same no matter what raid or flashpoint you do.

You always get level appropriate drops; and this is critical to the long term survivability of content.

Are there problems with class balancing? yes,

Are there problems with content balancing? yes.

Is it too much of a problem to be insurmountable? no.

Can you have fun? most certainly.

If swtor picked the WoW model where hammer station only dropped gear for level 20 players; i would never have come back; i love hammer station it's a blast and even in a full set of augmented rakata gear; i still run it as a tank because i want others to have a chance to find the joy i find from it. If you like the wow model better than the swtor model, go play WoW.

But i still pine for the days of sitting in karnor's castle for 4 hours killing endless numbers of skeletons and warewolves; because all that time was a chance to sit down with a group of people and just chat with them and get to know them; was everquest the best LFG experence ever? god no, some days it was horrible; but on the days it was good are the best days i have in 20 years of playing MMOs.

Edit:

Point in case; i can go to tython, the republic stating planet for force users, pick up the heroic mission, have an absolute blast scrapping clankers on the way. And even at maximum level, i get level appropriate gear that i can deconstruct into tokens, that i can convert into other tokens which i can use to buy end-game equipment.

And from a role play perspective, as a Jedi; absolutely some time should be spent on tython; and the game supports it and makes it not a waste of time.

It doesn't get any better than that as far as i'm concerned.

pps; I really didn't get a long with the gearing system in 7.0; but with 7.1 the shell upgrades are back I'm singing the swtor praises again. But for people who haven't gotten to irating 324 with 330 bits of blue and purple gear to deconstruct; gearing is still going to be a pain point. Wyld and Zeek should tell you why they wont give you the missions at the very least, it was a pain to try and find out what was broken on my alt character so i could fix it.

The old version had very weird minmax effects in endgame.

Tho changing it is overkill (for the moment) since they removed the endgame gearing liberty we enjoyed in 6.X, it is also more future proof once the %ages are properly done.

The idea of gear actually affecting your performance in the open world is not bad. But they need to change their approach to the issue - in 7.0 they behave like their playerbase was almost exclusively hardcore raiders who know their classes nearly perfectly. Reality is most of the playerbase is into relaxing gameplay, space barbie and story and the open world portion of the game should be more friendly to those players, or at least give them an option to turn difficulty way down.

I would have to say that companions' combat performance being fixed to where it should be (like how it was in 6.0 era), is the fix I anticipate or most look forward to. But it seems that it will be a long while yet to come, until or if it ever gets fully corrected. It's a bit of a bummer that maxed out leveled companions are too weak as of now. But it isn't enough for me to quit this amazing game for forever. I'll come back to see what happens on occasion at worst. At best, I can play more if there are eventually fewer major problems.

I'll always want to check back and hope that changes will come that I happen to like, even if it isn't what I was fully hoping for. I'm sad that this is my last day being subscribed and being able to post on these forums, but perhaps some day, I'll be able to be back.

Am going to finish the other class stories. It takes much longer than expected. Might be a year or more if I got limited time for playthroughs. Its been fun.

Agree. They should figure out some proper scale down formula and stick to it.

Something like leaving the tertiary stats unaltered, keeping the bonus we get through datacrons and achievements, and cap each planet to it's level.

This is close to 5.X-6.X yet it got exploited by min-maxxers in ops. The framework wasn't faultproof so they tried to iterate on it.

I agree the way it determines stats is annoying, in PVP also especially.

I don't understand, and maybe someone that works for bioware can tell me, why things aren't in percentages?

I.e. the crit rating, alacrity , all the adrenals, etc, all that stuff to me should be more like the warzone adrenals where it does a % of what you have like heals for % of health instead of some random number for everything. That would make some older models of things more useful. Instead of all these crit rating alacrity rating etc it could just be %, and then it would be easier to scale based on whatever the max limit of that planet or zone is. Gear could have 0.5% crit or something on it instead of a rating. This might even make using some older gear mixing and matching with newer gear to get different % ratings, that would be fun instead of being locked into a specific set of gear and really having NO good options to customize any more. the 300 augs help but there's still barely any room to move around tertiary stats , there's a predetermined best amount for everything (talking about crit, alac, accuracy mostly). Would be cool to be able to min/max things like force power or tech power. Where did all that customization go? Cleaning this up would help with the level sync as well as numerous other things IMO.

But I digress, i think level sync should go based on percentages and not raw stats because stats scale differently depending on what level you are . I guess this would be hard to implement but it would be cool.

I think recently they made it so level sync doesn't change your alacrity % ? I know something changed there because i have more % now when i scale down

- Ratings are here to create diminishing returns. It is quite important actually in order to avoid some ridiculous builds or actual balance issues.

- Given how some stats work (alacrity and accuracy), the current rating system allows for very minimal loss of gear value

- The gearing system allows almost full customization if you mix two gear sets. The only thing effectively enforced is, for example, mainhand (crit) and offhand (alacrity) for DPS roles.

The idea of gear actually affecting your performance in the open world is not bad. But they need to change their approach to the issue - in 7.0 they behave like their playerbase was almost exclusively hardcore raiders who know their classes nearly perfectly. Reality is most of the playerbase is into relaxing gameplay, space barbie and story and the open world portion of the game should be more friendly to those players, or at least give them an option to turn difficulty way down.

Then it's not a level sync issue, but a difficulty issue.

Then it's not a level sync issue, but a difficulty issue.

Yes and no. I liked how the old level sync worked (cap on power, mastery and endurance that directly translate to health and damage output, no cap on stats that translate to %s, high gear rating rising the cap for the three main stats) but the new system can work too if they increase %s.

If you wield 10 units of kill-kill at level 80, and go to a planet capped at level 40, you should have 5 levels of kill-kill, not something higher.

That's where the problem lies. When you have 10 units of kill-kill at level 80 and go to a planet capped at 40, you have 1 unit of kill-kill (or less). For example, Makeb is a level 55 planet and your gear (if it is 252 or up - all I've tested so far since getting lower level gear sets is somewhat complicated now) is reduced 90%.

That's where the problem lies. When you have 10 units of kill-kill at level 80 and go to a planet capped at 40, you have 1 unit of kill-kill (or less). For example, Makeb is a level 55 planet and your gear (if it is 252 or up - all I've tested so far since getting lower level gear sets is somewhat complicated now) is reduced 90%.

That suggests to me that they're (possibly) comparing an intended iRating based on what they've determined to be appropriate at-level planetary gear and shaving off everything above that number rather than doing any true scaling. I wonder in that math if they're ignoring the contribution of augs.

On one hand, I can see that, because the mobs aren't scaled one way or the other since Makeb was released.

There's an imbalance then between what constitutes a unit of kill-kill for a mob versus a down-leveled player.

That completes the limit of my math, so I'd have to head to Makeb with my 328 gear and full set of 286 augs and assess, but I can see how people would feel incredibly squishy in certain circumstances. I also tote an influence level 50 Shae Vizla wherever I go, so maybe I should go sans comp for a squishiness test, at some point.

By that logic I should feel really squishy doing the Tython heroic at level 80, but that's not the case, so, curious.

Hi GoldenApolo,

 

To help us better understand your experience, can you tell us what your item rating was at the time?

 

Thanks.

Hello there i am using an adaptative Rutless Scion's set and ordetch f7 light sabers. When i was lv 51 i had better stats than been lv 52 with improved mods, but that is obvius if you use percentages. The bigger the number the bigger the result of the percentage, simple maths. I also use relics and that.

But is a matter not only about the calculations, also de concept of invalidate your progress because we want you to play "like this" even if we give you the "illusion" of having a progression system. I thank you for writing but if you want to standarice how faster and how much we progress then remove all stats and don't botter attuning numbers because generally you wont get that rigth or leave the system working as intended, meaning, let the number work normally, meaning if you have to hit 10, then hit 10 not 5.

If this sound a bit agressive is because of the frustration and i apologise. Since the level sync the game stop been fun.

Except for that the rest of the game is awsome so far

My current item lv is 144 and my lv 55

Have a nice day!

That suggests to me that they're (possibly) comparing an intended iRating based on what they've determined to be appropriate at-level planetary gear and shaving off everything above that number rather than doing any true scaling. I wonder in that math if they're ignoring the contribution of augs.

 

On one hand, I can see that, because the mobs aren't scaled one way or the other since Makeb was released.

There's an imbalance then between what constitutes a unit of kill-kill for a mob versus a down-leveled player.

That completes the limit of my math, so I'd have to head to Makeb with my 328 gear and full set of 286 augs and assess, but I can see how people would feel incredibly squishy in certain circumstances. I also tote an influence level 50 Shae Vizla wherever I go, so maybe I should go sans comp for a squishiness test, at some point.

 

By that logic I should feel really squishy doing the Tython heroic at level 80, but that's not the case, so, curious.

Believe it or not you and I are not that far apart on trying to nail down what is at hand. I don't think the system needs to be scrapped ... BUT unquestionably there is something that needs to be "adjusted" or "tweaked".

I have yet to see a MMO that doesn't have some sort of level sync. Just needs some work and IMO it will be fine!

Believe it or not you and I are not that far apart on trying to nail down what is at hand. I don't think the system needs to be scrapped ... BUT unquestionably there is something that needs to be "adjusted" or "tweaked".

 

I have yet to see a MMO that doesn't have some sort of level sync. Just needs some work and IMO it will be fine!

I don't know the math behind how Everquest 2 does it. I just know when I take my level 52 gnome and go to a chrono mage and select "15" as the level I want to scale down to, I feel 15. Not 9, not 20, 15, and my interactions with mobs feels like it.

Hi guys!! I want it to try this game so a pay the sub for this month. I am gonna say i left wow because of the level sync and i dind't know this game has it too. At first is was ok but now no. Let me explain. I was lv 51 on quesh and i level up great! i wanted to check my stats before applying the new mods to my gear and improbe the accesories, so i took pictures of my stats before upgrade ui.

I upgraded my gear i went back to quesh and get what? the mobs got harder and then i open my character panel to see my stats and guess what? i was weaker than before using better gear what the f...???

Level sync should be optional the same way than buying CC to get convenient items are. Should be my choise if a want to destroy everything or no in one hit when you play solo.

After my sub ends i am out, It is sad because i love the rest of the game but i don't tolerate having stat and leveling system to be meanigless. Sorry i needed the rant.

Everyone has a nice day!

I have always thought that level synching needs to go.. but its a cheap way for devs to not update the game and rely on old content. So sadly is not going to change...

the way to go is for level sync to dissapear, and get constant new content.... While maybe putting in some planets new harder content, or bosses, etc that are at level cap

I have always thought that level synching needs to go.. but its a cheap way for devs to not update the game and rely on old content. So sadly is not going to change...

 

the way to go is for level sync to dissapear, and get constant new content.... While maybe putting in some planets new harder content, or bosses, etc that are at level cap

Level sync going away would mean a level 15 in my guild would not have too many people in the guild to group with because the rest of us are level 80.

Level sync is useful.

Level sync is useful.

Level sync was useful at one time. But with the changes to level sync it now seems that if you're level 80 then you are penalized for being level 80. A level 40 character has more power and survivabilty on Tattoeen than a level 80 level synced does.

My level 80's with 320 green garbage gear is weaker and dies easier and more often than my level 40 character with gear 110 points lower. So yes 90 to 110 gear has more power and mitigation than 320 rated gear.

A level 80 with 320 gear will take about 90% more damage and do about 50% less damage than a level 43 character with 90 to 110 gear.

Just another example of how Anti-Player SWToR has become. The general plan of BW now is to screw the player out of gear, power, and the ability to play and enjoy the game to the fullest for each player...

Now BW only caters to the Elite and PvP players and all others can go Fork them selves.

Bolster (now renamed level sync?) is a freaking disgrace goes to show you how clueless our current devs are. It shouldn't exist in structured pvp. Bring back expertise or better, remove gear completely from pvp, otherwise peeps with too much time on their hands will keep finding new exploits to have better stats with this stupid bolster.

Bolster is for PVP, level sync is for open world and some story mode flashpoints. The difference is that bolster sometimes boosts your stats, level sync always reduces them.

Level sync was useful at one time. But with the changes to level sync it now seems that if you're level 80 then you are penalized for being level 80. A level 40 character has more power and survivabilty on Tattoeen than a level 80 level synced does.

 

My level 80's with 320 green garbage gear is weaker and dies easier and more often than my level 40 character with gear 110 points lower. So yes 90 to 110 gear has more power and mitigation than 320 rated gear.

 

A level 80 with 320 gear will take about 90% more damage and do about 50% less damage than a level 43 character with 90 to 110 gear.

 

Just another example of how Anti-Player SWToR has become. The general plan of BW now is to screw the player out of gear, power, and the ability to play and enjoy the game to the fullest for each player...

Now BW only caters to the Elite and PvP players and all others can go Fork them selves.

IMO it's not so much "level sync" as it is something else that is causing "level sync" to be OUT of sync.

I would also venture a guess that "some" items (particularly gear) is intended for only a select few (not a good idea). But that is as far as I wish to take that statement. NO !! That's not a cop-out (to borrow a phrase from my generation). It IS, simply stated, a point to look at VERY closely. Something is simply just not what it ought to be.

That said ... IMO the matter should not be ignored. It does need to be fixed. When it is working correctly a level 48 (if they are working side by side with a level 80) in an area that is suited for a level 45 should be working in tandem. (Not the level 48 out preforming the level 80. It should also be noted that I ran "Balmorra Heroics" the other day with a level 38 (IIRC) .. and the level 38 was clearly outperforming my level 80 IN THAT .. they were consistently taking less damage ... AND consistently delt more damage than I did. (Please note I was using a Smuggler Gunslinger with an i-rating of 324 (just a couple of 326's pieces scattered in the mix).

In any case: bottom line. Level Sync is a good thing .. when it is working "GOOD" !

so here's my experience if anyone cares. should be pretty easy for devs/testers to replicate but maybe its some sort of intermittent bug idk:

Level 75 Madness Sorc with ilvl 306 gear, Lana as healer at companion-level 30. Try to solo heroic 2+ alderaan star fortress. Its tough but doable (at least up until the final boss).

Level 80 Madness Sorc with ilvl 320 gear, Lana as healer at companion-level 50. Same thing, try to solo heroic 2+ aleraan star fortress. Can't even make it past the first gold knight subboss. Trash normals and silvers are SIGNIFICANTLY harder to kill.

I believe what's happening here is that the scaling algorithm thinks that Level 75/ilvl 306 should "feel" the same as a Level 80/ilvl 330 (or whatever the highest tier gear is for level 80 now) , and scales the health/damage of enemies accordingly.

In my personal opinion, this is never how an RPG should work. If I gain character levels, and improve my gear (technically 320 gear is "better" than 306 gear), my character should never feel WEAKER, but that's exactly what the current level scaling algorithm apparently does. I don't know the answer to this, but I know that I personally don't like how things are working now. Leveling up my character and buying new, better gear, should NEVER make my character feel weaker, even (I would say especially) in level-scaled content

Just my $0.02.

I don't think level sync is necessarily bad, it depends on how it is implemented.

Before 7.0 I thought it was fine IMHO. Gearing up to max (306) at level cap (75) to get the full "veteran" stacks when sync'd was fairly painless, and once geared as such my max level characters felt fine doing low level stuff. Mobs died in what I considered to be a reasonable amount of time! My characters didn't get murdered doing their daily heroics* on Taris or Belsavis, but nor could I just 1 or 2-shot everything. I was so disappointed when my characters became weaker in 7.0.

I'm not even certain exactly how level sync works. However, I maintain that a level 80 getting sync'd on, say, Hoth should have max stats for Hoth regardless of if they are wearing super raid gear or are a fresh 80 in 320 gear (since we no longer have veteran stacks and it isn't so easy to get max gear now).

*Some people just love to argue that heroics are supposed to be group content. Long ago, they were. I remember, I was there. But then when level sync was introduced, they were essentially repurposed to be solo dailies. And yes, my Inquisitor in 322's did get absolutely destroyed attempting a heroic on Belsavis yesterday.