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Marauder Feedback Thread


JackieKo

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Is your team planning on ever addressing the multiple pages of people telling you this is a bad change?

So far you've given us a terrible class change, no explanation, and zero followup.

 

I'm betting real money that nothing will change and the Mara class counts will drop off a cliff.

 

I have around two dozen maras across three servers. They're all about to be a completely useless class even for leveling, let alone PvE in general or PvP at all. Of course, they're all pretty much useless right now because I can't even get the game to load with my 12900K, another issue that's "known" but not being addressed in a timely manner.

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Is your team planning on ever addressing the multiple pages of people telling you this is a bad change?

So far you've given us a terrible class change, no explanation, and zero followup.

 

I'm betting real money that nothing will change and the Mara class counts will drop off a cliff.

 

While what we currently have isn't ideal, it is still vastly superior to their first draft. They did listen to some feedback at least like giving us a proper predation (albeit as a choice), making Force camouflage baseline with cleanse and not removing Force Choke (albeit as a terrible choice against undying rage and mad dash). And who knows - maybe they played with the Force Lash numbers as well which are obviously way off to be useful and shifted around some choices to make more sense. The first iteration also isn't the last one. Changes can still be made.

 

If Marauder truly happens to be at some sort of bottom of DPS classes, then that'll be just that and you can either stick with it like the operative and mercenary DPS mains have done or reroll and play PT or whatever else will be the best DPS class like many others did. When I look around I don't see any class being super happy overall and there's also a world of difference between PVP and PVE players being happy or upset about the changes.

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Could you explain to me how FR dealing 18% more damage overall is better than e.g. 1 stack of it dealing 400% more damage with a guaranteed crit at that (because of Berserk)? Even if FR had 10 ticks of damage and you only hit 1 tick during Berserk with 400% increase, you'd still have a 40% overall dmg increase (1/10 x 400). Maxing our Juyo with virtually your first GCD is really nice but the longer the fight lasts (w/o losing the stacks), the less of an impact it has. 2 minutes in the impact is virtually zero.

 

When you combine Draining Centre with Bleeding Center you'll basically be able to use Berserk every time with Force Rend, so your 400% dmg increased Force Rend will crit for about the same as an Annihilate does every time and ofc with a 100% crit chance. Right now, only the first tick is ever increased anyway.

 

Purely dmg wise, this is superior. It also adds a second high burst damage ability which is really nice for fights with adds that need to go down quickly. You also gain way more HPS for both grp but especially yourself as you heal % of your dmg done on bleeds and the almost constant use of Berserk offers steady heal to the group.

 

It's basically the only thing I like at all in terms of Marauder changes. Agree with mostly everything else you write though. Force Fracture is probably the worst skill ever introduced. I've never seen an ability / talent actually make you flat out worse when you have it. It's worse for single target DPS in every scenario - even burst heavy fights. It's much worse for any type of AE with 2+ targets as you can't spread a second dot. It is the biggest show of incompetence I have ever seen in an mmo. They would need to ~ triple the dmg for it to make any sense for single target and it would play really ugly as you would use it with 2 dots active and then have to use VS or another main ability in between dot downtime.

 

You are correct draining center>juyo rend, for whatever reason i read juyo rend as flat 18% dmg increase on white dmg abilities during rend window

I stand by rest of my feedback most of the tier ''choices'' are pure unimagative trash,which only points to their complete incompetency and lack of in game knowledge

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  • 2 weeks later...
Biodady here's how you balance Maras.

 

Long story short. 2.0 annihilation and carnage. Leave fury how it is. Job done. I expect payment for solving this.

Man's not wrong. Though also bring smash back, it wouldn't be op in the era of dot spreads.

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Where can I start. I feel this class is completely toast. I really only PVP and have been playing Fury since I started back in the day. Now I’m no super PVP player in swtor because I mainly push rating in other games but still always loved playing pvp here. Mara was always known as a class with solid defense and the ability to escape combat when the going got tuff. You also had good gap closers and solid burst. Now that’s all removed and now I worry this class is dead for pvp. Seriously how is a choice between your best defensive, your only stun, and mad dash a thing. Seriously this row needs to go and all those abilities need to be base line. It isn’t even a question when you see operatives are barely losing a thing. Seriously force choke is just an iconic ability in Star Wars period. Class fantasy is a thing people love about this game and now it’s stripped from the class. I really just don’t get it. I hope you listen to players since plenty of others have said similar things but I really don’t think I can stay subbed if this stuff goes live. There really is no reason to remove this much from a class. I mean if you want to prune things this isn’t the class that needs it. I don’t want to get into the aoe mezz junk. A class with half the defensive abilities and literally no cc baseline seems like a good idea? Really?
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I now played a bit a few MM FPs and Story Mode Ops on the PTS and I really feel like the Marauder just doesn't offer anything beyond pure damage. You have zero ways to help your group.

 

Let's assume some add is firing on another DPS or healer - what can you do on live? You can stun the enemy. You can obfuscate the enemy. You can disable the enemy when it's not being damaged.

What can you do on PTS? Nothing. All those skills are gone and Force Choke would replace undying rage. Awful.

 

It just feels awful to play a DPS that offers absolutely nothing. There is zero skill involved in using some form of utility in group content. The class feels completely naked. I also don't believe we will be competitive in terms of pure damage output. There is simply too much that's gonna be missing. The set bonus was a constant 10% dmg increase with 25% bonus dmg on our hardest hitting ability refreshing every ~ 8 sec on average. Furious Power is now useless without the bonus because a 30 sec recharge is too inefficient and it's also not baseline any longer. We also lost over 20% dmg on dots on amplifiers which severely hinders our ability to AOE DPS and gimps our ST DPS as well.

 

It's just such bad design for how the class has developed and how it currently plays. The latest newly introduced abilities were Mad Dash and Furious Power and both are now optional and tied to choices against much better skills. How do you remove the latest skills you gave the class from the class? The ability pruning just removes any sort of soul the class had. You tried to streamline the experience and you did. But it's more like making yet another identical Fast and Furious movie instead of something fresh and new.

 

Marauder specifically - but other classes as well - feel bland and boring to play because there is nothing to do. You took all the skills that allowed clever play and removed them. So now everyone who could basically play the class or was better is bored beyond belief and the super casuals you're trying to get to spend money on this still won'T be any more successful.

 

Really disappointed with how the class feels in day to day content that isn't an OP. Never mind that things like Obfuscate or Mad Dash or Force Choke were super fun to use in those as well and actually separated good DPS from great DPS if used smart. But apparently you really dislike smart seeing how dumbed down the class is.

Edited by Aethyriel
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  • 2 weeks later...

I think the level 73 and 80 talent choices really need to be looked at.

 

I could do without pretty much all of the level 80 choices (brazen is decent, but should not be the only worthwhile pick at level 80 and would make more sense lower down in the talent tree) meanwhile literally all of the level 73 choices are essential to a mara's survivability.

 

Leaving these two talent tiers as they are is a mistake, plain and simple.

Edited by nzologic
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Why are we forced to choose 1 out of 3 talents/abilities to pick for that level. Why do we have less freedom of choice, I want ALL talents and abilities to choose from I don't want somebody to tell me how to play and give me a choice I want to make my own choices on how I want to create the build of my class.

 

This isn't just for Marauder but for every class, this new talent system is terrible because it forces you to pick something. What happens if I want 2 out of the 3 abilities/talents for that level? I'm sh*t out of luck? 6.0 was perfectly fine because you could pick what you want and build your character around it.

 

I love that you can get different versions of abilities now but why does it have to remove freedom of choice in the process. If I can't pick and play how I want then I don't want ability pruning. Why is this fun? Who thought this was a good idea!?

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With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Marauder.

 

Please answer the following questions:

 

[*]Does the current combat rotation make this experience feel like you are playing a Marauder? Why or why not?

 

Basically Yes. :)

I copied my Main over and the experience was nearly the same.

I did my damage and was not dissapointed. Note, that I am more of a casual player^^

 

But I have one thing I dearly missed. The Marauder was always my flexible fast paced Character. You took the second Jump away. Please, please give that back. The Marauder needs his jumps.

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Hello. First of all i want to warn you that I am not an english native speaker, so please forgive me for mistakes.

 

I am here to share my experience as a new player that has just started playing in the December 2021. I have started and already finished my class story as a Sith Warrior Juggernaut and now i am playing as a Jedi Sentinel. Everything in the current 6.0 design of Sentinel and Juggernaut amazes me. As a Juggernaut It feels like mighty Darth Vader especially because of all this "heavy" strikes and decent defence abilities. As a Sentinel it feels more like fast, very mobile, Ashoka Tano. It amazes me how you Bioware was so good designing this two advanced classes.

 

I have 7 years WoW MMO experiecne to compare, and in WoW class design is SO TERRIBLE, every meele class just feels the same - each class has only one viable talent seting, each class has one set of defence/attack cd, burst window, 2 button for control and literally no utility or some useless repeating utility to help teammates. For me now only difference between WoW melee is the animation.

 

I would speak more about PvP aspect. Now It feel so extremely fun and interesting to play Sentinel in PvP, especially after clumsy Vengeance Juggernaut (which by upcoming changes will become more clumsier and squishy). I don't know how to properly express it, but in 6.0 Concentration Sentinel allows to perform remarkable plays, mostly because of unique combination of offencive CD, mobility and utility skills. For now I really feels like I want to invest more time playing the 6.0 version of the Sentinel class, explore the different proficiencies, learn how to become better at the class PvP gameplay.

 

Regarding the 7.0 ability pruning - I don't really see a reason to do that. Actually It was very easy to understand all Concentration Sentinel and Vengeance Juggernaut abilities. It was very easy to understand the PvE rotation and PvP ability priority, because you get them step by step as level grows, and you are actually use them during the storyline fights. I personally set my companion in passive mode, so I literally had to use all my arsenal of abilities to survive and win some PvE fights. And in my opinion this is the good and interesting experience. I had some abilities that i used rarely - aoe sweep and two baisic attack abilities - because there were always stronger available alternatives during one GCD. But you are not fixing and not pruning not-actual abilities - instead, Bioware, you are removing essential abilities that makes the Sentinel unique.

 

I am actually very disappointed with new Sentinel changes. I only recently learned about the upcoming changes and it is instantly demotivated me to play more. What is now the point of mastering very interesting-to-play class if you are going to make it not interesting average damage-dummy? Why some classes are saving all the utility they have and lightsaber melee users not? It just don't feels right and don't make sense. There is already disbalance in PvP, for example, I can rarely see a Vengeance Juggernaut on arenas, and if I see one - all this guy would do is trying to survive instead of actual dealing damage. Now it becomes worse, because second vialbe class - Sentinel/Maradeur just got kicked out of PvP with new ability pruning. So eventually you will have only ranged classes presented in PvP, and PvP become more like Blaster Wars.

 

Didn't actually understand, why u call it "freedom" to be able to choose ability, because it feels like in 7.0 you are not choosing ability - you are choosing lesser restriction for yourself. Real freedom IMHO is having them all and being able to choose the most appropriate ability or ability combination for current gameplay situation.

 

I beg you, Bioware, please don't change the current class design in such way you did on PTS. Just please, there is no actual reason to do this.

Edited by truevaserg
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I'm a combat sent main of about 8 years now.

 

That level 73 choice irks me a ton. I use each and every one of those abilities on live right now. Nuking 2 of them from my versatility is a HUGE change that negatively impacts the experience of the combat style.

 

And not having Fanged God Form hurts a TON. The critical chance portion was built into Valor Blade at 43, but the resource management was HUGE for that.

 

And The level 27 choice also feels bare bones. Driving lance's extra range REALLY isn't needed since, yknow, we're a melee class, and while Zen Lance seems like a fantastic buff on paper, you run out of focus WAY too quickly to get any real use out of it or working your rotation around it. It isn't like the adrenaline boost item you get on Uprisings. And the balancing of this ability is more frustrating than helpful imo.

 

So, what changes do I think need to be made to fix this?

 

Put Fanged God Form back. And Descent of the Fearless bonus has to show up somewhere. (Unsure if it already does or not because gearing in a short term for PTS feedback is a pain).

 

Fix the level 73 options. Those are all 3 heavily useful options and making us pick between them is lame. We need Guarded by the Force for the extra defense for some mechanics in Ops and PvP, and even heroics and some harder solo fights. We need our class stun. And while we don't need Blade Blitz and I honestly hated it when it came out, I've grown to appreciate it's usefulness in versatility and mobility. It does come in handy. It does feel like part of the Sentinel's options. So removing it now of all times feels unwarranted and frustrating.

 

I feel like the devs making these decisions are playing a COMPLETELY different form of combat than the majority of the playerbase on live. Playing your discipline and combat style should feel rewarding, it should feel like that class, and the current state of the PTS continues to demonstrate that the dev team has no clue what this is, despite new players finding this groove on live fairly easily.

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  • 2 weeks later...

More of a story issue for Marauder: Playing as a Marauder (Shadow Combat Style) and on the mission "Laying Waste" for the class story the story got stuck in a loop of talking to the son and Cellvanta Grathan over and over when fighting them.

 

UPDATE: Once the son respawned and fought once more after playing the cutscene once more the mission was able to trigger correctly and finish.

Edited by Lansotey
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