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Server Merge Discussion Thread

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Server Merge Discussion Thread
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PiiTarr's Avatar


PiiTarr
08.14.2017 , 05:33 PM | #2261
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
Oh but I am not personally attacking anyone, I am merely stating facts that I can prove by showing you the forums of SWTOR-RP and some of the nasty things that have occurred there. And I was a part of the RP community for years until I decided to move to the Red Eclipse because the toxic behaviour pushed me and many others away, but also the lack of pve and pvp activity on the Progenitor.

And naturally, harassment should be eradicated as it always will be something abominable. But to assume all of the server will conspire to harass the RP community without end is a bit silly and not true.

But you know what the funny thing is, I realised that anything I'd say wouldn't be an argument in your eyes or a lesser argument simply because I don't agree with you. Correct me if I am wrong but it certainly feels that way with the quotation marks and such.
I didn't say you were personally attacking anyone, I clearly said you were insulting the entire RP community with your imagined "shuddering" and "fear." Again, no one has expressed those feelings in this thread, except you.

Also, no one has stated an entire server will conspire to harass the RP community. Again, you create a fictitious argument simply to knock it down. What has been said is there is a higher concentration of trolls.

You're wrong. You simply stated something that wasn't an argument against anything anyone else had said and I am countering that. You then (twice, once in the post I quoted and once in another post you made in reply to someone else) slandered the entire RP community. As for your other arguments, they've been knocked down point by point, and you also chose to completely ignore my post about mergers being a temporary solution rather than a cure. So I'm left with the impression there is no point in trying to discuss this with you any further as you keep using strawman tactics and insults.

Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
08.14.2017 , 05:35 PM | #2262
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
I think you vastly underestimate the jollies that some get from ruining others "fun" and the lengths they will go to in order to do so.


I notice that you also didn't address the fact that your "suggestion" would almost certainly make it impossible for anyone wanting to "dip their feet into RP" to do so.

It sounds to me like there really is no "upside" for Rp'ers then, if there is not real possibility of seeing new RP'ers, and they face the added prospect of additional harassment by being forced into a server with a community that has already shown itself to be intolerant of RP'ers.

It sounds like the only people who would see an "upside" would be those who covet a "megaserver" or rely upon the LFG tool. Even the latter is debatable, as there are many who simply do not use the LFG tool, preferring to do their group content with friends and guild members.
Have you ever tried RP? On the Progenitor or Ebon Hawk? People trying to dip their feet into RP already have a severe problem doing that because guildless RP'ers are basically ignored. I had lots of examples where we were in a guild event and someone passed along, saw us and asked if they could join. 99% of the time the answer was "no, we're in a guild event, please move along". And the cantinas? If you aren't a known Rp'er or aren't in a guild 99% of the time you'll be ignored and not interacted with. So if you truly want to dip your feet into RP you have to become part of a guild or otherwise you won't be able to. The Swtor-rp forums are full with new rp'ers complaining about that which also sadly were the threads where the toxic nature of the rp community surfaced.
The One, True Lord Ryssius
Playing SWTOR since November 2012
Darth Malgus [EU]

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
08.14.2017 , 05:38 PM | #2263
Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleg View Post
Yes, they are. It's the very defintion of an indicator actually, which means not telling the whole story but giving an idea.
What are you comparing them to? How do you know the focus on story didn't drive more people to planets as opposed to fleet (i.e. kotfe/kotet has no need of fleet if you aren't wanting to LFG) ... it's a crappy metric to measure anything by.

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
08.14.2017 , 05:43 PM | #2264
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Again.. not listening.

RPers are not claiming trollers will kill RP. They are claiming that they have the right to not easily be trolled endlessly by anti-RPers, which is what you instancing approach will offer up. Get clue please, because harassment condoned WILL drive good players away from a game.
To be fair this whole harassment argument seems to be just grasping at threads here in regards to population decline.

I mean it's all just unfounded assumption on both sides.

Maybe the amount of trolls who would return would offset the amount of RPers lost - hey benefit to BWA. :P

Maybe the majority of trolls left are bored PVP/Pug players (maybe, heh) waiting for queue pops who would have better pops and smaller queue times under merged circumstances and thus trolling would actually be less than it is now?

There is the possible positive of merged servers exposing more people to RP actually grows the RP community and leads to a better RP experience for many.

Fact is - we don't know what effect it might have for sure yet it seems many in this thread are taking it on themselves to state factually "RP will be ruined if servers are merged". That is just one assumption amongst many.

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
08.14.2017 , 05:44 PM | #2265
Quote: Originally Posted by casirabit View Post
Because I tested it out already: I made a toon on Harbinger to test it out. Do you know what I experienced when I asked about roleplay? Roleplay is not accepted here, so shut up about roleplay. I did that on the fleet and 2 other areas, same response, so how is that proving you right that more people will want to RP with that type of attitude. Sure....... and I have a bridge I can sell you in Arizona (and Arizona being a desert state)

I deleted that toon and said never would I go to Harbinger again after that sort of treatment.
But that's a flawed study, people know you have RP servers. They would basically see what you are doing as troll bait.
If there were merged servers then the "this is not an RP server piss off" no longer applies.

Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
08.14.2017 , 05:44 PM | #2266
Quote: Originally Posted by PiiTarr View Post
I didn't say you were personally attacking anyone, I clearly said you were insulting the entire RP community with your imagined "shuddering" and "fear." Again, no one has expressed those feelings in this thread, except you.

Also, no one has stated an entire server will conspire to harass the RP community. Again, you create a fictitious argument simply to knock it down. What has been said is there is a higher concentration of trolls.

You're wrong. You simply stated something that wasn't an argument against anything anyone else had said and I am countering that. You then (twice, once in the post I quoted and once in another post you made in reply to someone else) slandered the entire RP community. As for your other arguments, they've been knocked down point by point, and you also chose to completely ignore my post about mergers being a temporary solution rather than a cure. So I'm left with the impression there is no point in trying to discuss this with you any further as you keep using strawman tactics and insults.
This is exactly what I am talking about. I am trying to hold a reasonable discussion with you but when I am depicted as the boogeyman for not agreeing with you and countering your arguments with my own, then sorry but eventually my patience will wear thin. Perhaps I shouldn't have said that about the shuddering and being afraid, but it does seem like it if you take a step back and look at what you and others say.

Also, someone that disagrees with me countering my arguments is not proving me wrong or my arguments being knocked down. If you see it as that I suggest you rethink what a discussion means, namely an exchange of arguments and points. And there are enough people who agreed with what I said but you conveniently disregard them.

You want me to be wrong, those opposing server merges also want me to be. I get that, but that doesn't mean I actually am. Whether I am right is also the question and would have to be seen in the future, but the fact that I disagree with you doesn't mean I am wrong. But I do realise it's easier for those who disagree with me to depict me as the big bad boogeyman. Because what if what I said actually made some sense! No we can't have that, can we...
The One, True Lord Ryssius
Playing SWTOR since November 2012
Darth Malgus [EU]

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
08.14.2017 , 05:45 PM | #2267
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
What are you comparing them to? How do you know the focus on story didn't drive more people to planets as opposed to fleet (i.e. kotfe/kotet has no need of fleet if you aren't wanting to LFG) ... it's a crappy metric to measure anything by.
But it's the only metric those desiring server merges can point to and say "this population is dead", while they ignore that people may be on guild ships, in strongholds, on other planets or any place other than fleet.

"If you are not just sitting on fleet waiting to fill out their group, your playing the game wrong."

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
08.14.2017 , 05:45 PM | #2268
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
You're right. The only people who don't think it's an indicator are the same people claiming everything is fine when it's clearly not.
I used to sub and used fleet lots, now I sub and haven't used fleet in months. Does that mean I don't play any longer?

Pfft.

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
08.14.2017 , 05:52 PM | #2269
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Don't forget the numbers of people who have already given up everything to move away from the toxic cesspool that is Harbinger.

Some people want to just force them back into that cesspool. That will work out well.
How many numbers? It seems you know something we don't? I mean is it more than those that move there to have a more populated server?
You also earlier mentioned all the players/guilds staying on low population servers to avoid being on a high populated server?

What is a low populated server in this case? What is a high populated server? What are the other servers? How many players and guilds are doing this? Are these large enough numbers in comparison to those who would benefit from a merge to warrant concern for the "greater good"?

You bandy around a lot of "posts" stating things like "numbers" without actually giving any numbers. Until then a lot of what you are posting is really not carrying much weight to anyone reading along (which I had done of your posts to this point and this is my opinion of what you are basically posting lately).

Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
08.14.2017 , 05:56 PM | #2270
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
But it's the only metric those desiring server merges can point to and say "this population is dead", while they ignore that people may be on guild ships, in strongholds, on other planets or any place other than fleet.

"If you are not just sitting on fleet waiting to fill out their group, your playing the game wrong."
It's not the one and only indicator, but it can point to the fact something may be wrong because the Fleets usually are the hub of the server. They're the central place where players go to, they're designed to be liked that. But if you see there are 2 map instances of the Imperial fleet for example with 100+ people on the Red Eclipse and only 1 map instance with 89 people on the Progenitor at the same time during European prime time, you can assume which server has the higher population.
The One, True Lord Ryssius
Playing SWTOR since November 2012
Darth Malgus [EU]