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Unreal Engine 4 for swtor : missed opportunity


TrixxieTriss

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first version of UE 4 came out 2014. 3 years after the release of swtor, many more years after the point where developers had chosen the engine and couldnt turn back.

there was no opportunity at all when the game came out.

porting a game of the size of an mmo like swtor to a new engine would take about the same time and manpower as devwloping from scretch.

 

also, if you are making profit out of using the engine for your game, you gotta pay 5% of it to the developers of the engine.

i'm pretty sure swtor is running on a customized version they bought the full license for, saving a lot of money.

Edited by mrphstar
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first version of UE 4 came out 2014. 3 years after the release of swtor, many more years after the point where developers had chosen the engine and couldnt turn back.

there was no opportunity at all when the game came out.

porting a game of the size of an mmo like swtor to a new engine would take about the same time and manpower as devwloping from scretch.

 

also, if you are making profit out of using the engine for your game, you gotta pay 5% of it to the developers of the engine.

i'm pretty sure swtor is running on a customized version they bought the full license for, saving a lot of money.

 

I didn’t say they could have used it. I said it was a missed opportunity. But I also meant with timing as well as the tech.

 

As for royalties. Look at it this way. If you take twice as long to make something because the engine and it’s tool kits aren’t optimised for the content you want to make (ie the changes that Bioware had to customise and make themselves), then it costs more to produce. You also run into the problems later on (as they have in recent years and now) where those coders who customised the engine have left the company and no one knows what they did or how to fix it.

 

5% royalties for continued support from the Engine developers and upgrades to the system to make it more efficient (time wise) and help with fixing bugs etc, is a small price to pay in the long term because continuous bugs (that aren’t or can’t be fixed) and lack of content (due to in house dev and time costs) is what drives players from a game.

The 5% royalty would probably end up paying for itself.

 

This is something EA themselves still haven’t figured out because they keep forcing the their other game devs to use the Frostebite engine on game types it wasn’t designed for. They should never have used it on Anthem because look where it’s got them. (You can read about it in the latest Koktar article. I won’t link it here because Bioware have already removed threads to do with it).

 

If they ever get the opportunity to port the game to a new engine or make a sequel to swtor (which will likely never happen) then they should definitely look at the Unreal engine even if they have to pay a royalty.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Even if a port/sequel were to happen, the EA overlords have decreed that all games made under the EA banner are to be done with Frostbite.

 

Shame really, engines like Unreal or maybe even Lumberyard would be infinitely better than Hero or Frostbite.

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Even if a port/sequel were to happen, the EA overlords have decreed that all games made under the EA banner are to be done with Frostbite.

 

Shame really, engines like Unreal or maybe even Lumberyard would be infinitely better than Hero or Frostbite.

 

After the Anthem debacle, you would think EA would reconsider that position.

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what i'm trying to tell is, that the opportunity wasnt missed, it just wasnt ever there in first place. and never will be.

 

the engine wasnt there when the game was was produced.

 

and from a business standpoint it just makes no sense to port a game, which you customized the current engine for, to a new engine.

 

how many games do you know that got an engine port while being out on the market already?

i still try to find one....

closest i could find are series like CoD, BF or Counter Strike which at some point used a new engine for the next title while older versions still used old engines. but then again, these were totaly new games.

 

and there are reasons for it. it would take 3+ years and a full dev team to port swtor to a new engine. why would anybody do that with an 8 year old game?

 

problem is, many people in this forum come up with new cool ideas like an engine port or like my "friend" in another topic with a new loot crate algorithm followed by a statement like: " it cant be that hard" or "everyone could do that in 5min".

 

assuming they know whats going on in game development just because they saw a nice article about a new engine the other day or took some java-tutorials on youtube to programm a calculator.:rolleyes:

Edited by mrphstar
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How good would it have been if swtor could have been built using unreal engine 4.

 

The latest version even has Raytracing.

 

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/unreal-engine-4-22-released

 

You have to remember, the 'Hero engine' they are using now, was the alpha version and not the finished product. That said, if BioWare was to use a new engine, it would be the Frostbite engine. EA has ordered all games built on that. SWTOR is an aberration in that regard. BioWare's developers had to have DICE come in and help them with Anthem. BW Austin's engineers had no real experience with it. Besides, EA will not allow SWTOR to change from what it is using now unless it was to the Frostbite.

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You have to remember, the 'Hero engine' they are using now, was the alpha version and not the finished product. That said, if BioWare was to use a new engine, it would be the Frostbite engine. EA has ordered all games built on that. SWTOR is an aberration in that regard. BioWare's developers had to have DICE come in and help them with Anthem. BW Austin's engineers had no real experience with it. Besides, EA will not allow SWTOR to change from what it is using now unless it was to the Frostbite.

 

I know all of that already. I only said it was a missed opportunity that unreal wasn’t there to be used.

 

Also, EA need to wake about forcing studios to use frostbite because it doesn’t suit every type of game. They need to wear some of the blame for anthems problems because they forced them to use frostbite.

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what i'm trying to tell is, that the opportunity wasnt missed, it just wasnt ever there in first place. and never will be.

 

the engine wasnt there when the game was was produced.

 

and from a business standpoint it just makes no sense to port a game, which you customized the current engine for, to a new engine.

 

how many games do you know that got an engine port while being out on the market already?

i still try to find one....

closest i could find are series like CoD, BF or Counter Strike which at some point used a new engine for the next title while older versions still used old engines. but then again, these were totaly new games.

 

and there are reasons for it. it would take 3+ years and a full dev team to port swtor to a new engine. why would anybody do that with an 8 year old game?

 

problem is, many people in this forum come up with new cool ideas like an engine port or like my "friend" in another topic with a new loot crate algorithm followed by a statement like: " it cant be that hard" or "everyone could do that in 5min".

 

assuming they know whats going on in game development just because they saw a nice article about a new engine the other day or took some java-tutorials on youtube to programm a calculator.:rolleyes:

 

They could have used an earlier version of unreal engine instead of hero. That would have allowed them to port to unreal 4 if they wanted to.

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so what are your personal experiences with game developement on frostbite?

where do you see the advantage in using the unreal engine, instead of frostbite,

for an mmorpg title?

 

why should ea use an different engine? i mean frostbite is an internal project and

it is directly developed for the ea companies. there is an constant developement

on the engine by the feedback of ea developers, using frostbite. all is internal, so

even inside the company, there are no copyright problems, if you need to change

some core codes to adjust something.

 

and why do you see unreal over unity or cryengine/lumberyard?

Edited by fabsus
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After the Anthem debacle, you would think EA would reconsider that position.

 

That would be logical to an outsider but this EA you're talking about. They'll abandon Frostbite for 3rd person games only after every studio's signature release(s) tank or are so buggy they drive players away instead of retaining them. Even then it'll take extreme shareholder dissatisfaction and a change in executive level management before that happens.

 

Expect more of the same.

 

Sad really.

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I didn’t say they could have used it. I said it was a missed opportunity. But I also meant with timing as well as the tech. .

The problem is, you are using the term "missed opportunity" incorrectly. To be a missed opportunity they would indeed have had to have had the chance to use it.

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so many pros in here. :D:rolleyes:

 

:D

 

UE4 is great, I use it all the time. I doubt EA would ever license a competitor's engine, however.

In terms of graphics, frostbite is just as good, if not better, but there are plenty of horror stories from developers who struggled to make it do what they want. Basic things like inventory management, companion AI, and save/load functionality had to be added in for DA: Inquisition.

 

Unreal is so successful because of its business model, which puts it in the hands of anyone who wants it. There's a massive amount of collective knowledge about it, and really solid official documentation. Frostbite lacks all of that.

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IMO - an Unreal engine 3 would be considered a desirable upgrade from hero engine, let alone UE4

 

Isn't UE4 more of a FPS engine?

 

Blade & Soul is a good example of an MMORPG incorporating UE4, so lest we say its viable

Edited by Bonzenaattori
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Isn't UE4 more of a FPS engine?

 

No, the Unreal engines are MMO engines whereas the Frostbite (EA) is a FPS engine. As mentioned, games like Blade & Soul (upgrading to 4 from 3 near the end of the year) and City of Titans are using this one. I do believe had BW waited until the Hero engine was completed, we might see a huge difference in how SWTOR functions. Elder Scrolls is using the Hero and there is huge difference between it and SWTOR.

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No, the Unreal engines are MMO engines whereas the Frostbite (EA) is a FPS engine. As mentioned, games like Blade & Soul (upgrading to 4 from 3 near the end of the year) and City of Titans are using this one. I do believe had BW waited until the Hero engine was completed, we might see a huge difference in how SWTOR functions. Elder Scrolls is using the Hero and there is huge difference between it and SWTOR.

 

None of the Elder Scrolls uses the Hero Engine.

 

In fact, SWTOR is the only game released that uses Hero, and the version SWTOR uses is so heavily modified it's not really fair to call it Hero anymore.

 

The Hero Engine was a bit of a dud, it hasn't gone anywhere. Wouldn't matter if SWTOR had waited until release.

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None of the Elder Scrolls uses the Hero Engine.

 

In fact, SWTOR is the only game released that uses Hero, and the version SWTOR uses is so heavily modified it's not really fair to call it Hero anymore.

 

The Hero Engine was a bit of a dud, it hasn't gone anywhere. Wouldn't matter if SWTOR had waited until release.

 

Elder Scrolls Online uses Hero Engine.

 

There is even a huge splash screen image when you install ESO for first time, before or after the Bethesda/Zenimax logo.

Edited by ShieldProtection
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Elder Scrolls Online uses Hero Engine.

 

There is even a huge splash screen image when you install ESO for first time, before or after the Bethesda/Zenimax logo.

 

To the best of my knowledge, ESO has never confirmed what engine they currently use. They've stated they used Hero for prototyping and early builds, they did buy a license and probably did take bits and pieces, hence why it'd be on the splash screen (though from what I've read, it no longer appears there either).

 

I don't think it's fair to say that it actually uses Hero though.

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It does specifically state on the Hero engine website that Elder Scrolls uses Hero : http://www.heroengine.com/he-games

 

What particular obviously is ESO uses a proper version of Hero and has real support.

Bioware used an Alphs version thatw as heavily modified.

It’s such a shame they did that because the latest versions of Hero are probably ok http://www.heroengine.com/heroengine

They even have DX11 support now.

 

Maybe the latest fixes in 10.1.2 are with the help of the Hero guys. Maybe Bioware realises they need to try some work arounds from the old system.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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To the best of my knowledge, ESO has never confirmed what engine they currently use. They've stated they used Hero for prototyping and early builds, they did buy a license and probably did take bits and pieces, hence why it'd be on the splash screen (though from what I've read, it no longer appears there either).

 

I don't think it's fair to say that it actually uses Hero though.

 

Just to follow up Shield's comment, he is correct. Hero is announced as an engine their using and Havok is part of it too. I have no idea which is doing what, but they are using it.

 

Edit: Trixxie's post confirms and verifies it without a doubt or ambiguity. Thanks Trixxie! :D

Edited by Ghost_Spectre
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