Exactly one of the things I love about Theron, no matter what side he won't always agree with all of your choices. I feel like this is something under utilized now that certain characters get far less lines then they used to. Again another pitfall of them having stupid kill orders or class blocks on all our boys. There's significantly less dialogue.

For one, Bioware should have from the start told the story they wanted to tell, and stop listening to cringy edgelords who want to kill all comps. They think that by not listening to the minority of screamers it would perhaps threaten the modest population swtor still has? No, if anything it would drive away the people still here, as if you kill off/undermine all the characters people love there's nothing left for them to care about going forward. Take me for example, since a lot of the comps I liked got an option I don't even really care about going through the upcoming content releases as I know most of them will barely be involved in the journey, and remained unsubbed for years only came back recently, to well unsub again ha.

As an mmo, swtor is not in the best on the tier list, the building your story with the characters you like was one of swtors strongest aspects, kill options harm that for everyone. I don't think even any of the vanilla class companions should have been killed. Not only that, killing companions does not stop the players screaming for character deaths. It only creates more players wanting the deaths of others because their comps or LI's were treated poorly/unfairly. Look at Knight for example, all their class companions are still alive compared to the other classes who have had theirs ganked. Some randomly coming back just to be killed lmao. It's insane how uneven Bioware has been to the classes that I understand people being mad and wanting others dead. Again, Bioware doesn't fix these problems with deaths, they only create more people wanting characters dead.

They think they're doing something by giving the players a choice, but having the option to save them doesn't matter as they will never be as they were before the option. Which is usually one of the major pros toward loving a companion character for a lot of people; them feeling like they're on this journey with you. Look at this very thread as proof of how having the option to save a character matters not. What was seemingly a thread full of love in 2017 turned into us coming back to the same subject because it just leaves such a bitter stain on the character that it can never be overlooked. Now just think how this thread would look if Bioware instead wrote that whole arc better, didn't completely crap on the character and didn't vindicate the screechers with a kill. I hate how anytime Theron is brought up now we must discuss the traitor arc and nothing else about the character as we did beforehand. He can't even be posted on the official twitter without us all starting an arguement and going to war lol. Bioware writers did that. So yeah it ruins the fanbase too.

For one, Bioware should have from the start told the story they wanted to tell, and stop listening to cringy edgelords who want to kill all comps. They think that by not listening to the minority of screamers it would perhaps threaten the modest population swtor still has? No, if anything it would drive away the people still here, as if you kill off/undermine all the characters people love there's nothing left for them to care about going forward.

While I don't think companions should have gotten kill options, in Ashara's case, the way they wrote her return, a kill option would have made more sense than 99% of the companions that got them. Making dark side characters act totally out of character, and weak as all get out, only added fuel to the Ashara hate. They should either have given players a kill option, or written her return so it wasn't necessary.

As for Bioware listening to the screaming minority, I'm very afraid they are going to bring Vaylin back from the dead. I've been really looking forward to Ayn Leneer's storyline and never hearing about Valkorian or his spawn ever again. I don't think I could stomach having more content ruined by that kind of stupid writing.

Now just think how this thread would look if Bioware instead wrote that whole arc better, didn't completely crap on the character and didn't vindicate the screechers with a kill. I hate how anytime Theron is brought up now we must discuss the traitor arc and nothing else about the character as we did beforehand. He can't even be posted on the official twitter without us all starting an argument and going to war lol. Bioware writers did that. So yeah it ruins the fanbase too.

This reminds me of life as a Quinn fan. The writer deliberately wrote in alternate interpretations of the "incident", but so many people act as if there is only one. They won't even consider the alternative and all of the evidence to support it and get very hostile when it is brought up.

The fact some people still act like what Theron did during the Traitor arc was the worst thing ever and demanded death was just... disappointing though not surprising. It was stupid railroaded story (why couldn't he take us completely off Odessan or like... written us a note to say what was going on if the Gemini Droid was that much of a threat?) And it's like they forget that Lana did the exact same thing in lying to Theron and letting him be captured on Rishi. Though I think a lot of the hate people have for him and also Koth, and Quinn in the same essence is that the Edge Lord player felt their character had been slighted in that Theron/Koth/Quinn didn't bend over backwards to kiss their behind.

With Quinn I honestly can't blame him for what happened,

But back to Theron, I really like the differences in his romance depending on your faction, though I greatly prefer the Republic hug compared to the Imp version, as Imp version feels almost sadder in a way like it's urging you to move on from what the two of you share because duty calls. I'm at least glad that my Sorcerer (and eventually Warrior) can tell him the truth about being Saboteurs. I hate that only Lana knows otherwise.

I don't blame Quinn, Agent's story showed just how much non-sith people fear the Sith and feel they must obey them, because if they don't, it's pretty much death. However I still would not compare the Quinncident to Theron and it's stupid when people do. Indeed, Quinn was in possibly one of the worst positions, but his ultimate goal was still to betray you, and he actively tried to kill you. So I atleast understand some of the hostility some has for him. Theron on the other hand. Completely different story. He saved the PC multiple times in the story, sided with the PC on several occasions even when it doesn't make sense for him. Helped build the alliance just as much as Lana did. Out of all the alliance members, the two of them are 2 of the only ones who could be called the PC's closest friends. Satele even reinforces how much Theron adores the PC.

Everything he did in the traitor arc was ultimately to save the alliance and the PC. He was never trying to kill the PC, he was never betraying the PC. The only way you can call Theron a traitor, is due to the actual people he DID betray, the Chiss, but not the PC or the alliance.

I honestly feel like it's because he's a Pub in addition to not being a waifu, I have noticed that players in general just don't seem to give the same admiration to pubs or males as they do imperials/females, no matter what they do, no matter how much they help or respect the PC. I've even noticed people willing to defend Vaylin more despite all she did lol. Perhaps it's a result of the impside being more popular, more bias. It also explains why Bioware has a habit of making imps look so good in the story while Pubs bad. But I will always be more mad at Bioware and the writers than any of the players. The arc shouldn't have even existed, not if they were going to sabotage the character in the way they did lol. I've even seen some jokingly saying "it was a mercy kill, bioware can't hurt him anymore", that's how much they damaged the character.

I don't blame Quinn, Agent's story showed just how much non-sith people fear the Sith and feel they must obey them, because if they don't, it's pretty much death. However I still would not compare the Quinncident to Theron and it's stupid when people do. Indeed, Quinn was in possibly one of the worst positions, but his ultimate goal was still to betray you, and he actively tried to kill you. So I atleast understand some of the hostility some has for him. .

That is what I am talking about. That is only one possible interpretations of events.

That is what I am talking about. That is only one possible interpretations of events.

The other one is that Quinn sabotaged the droids with the full expectation of the Warrior killing him. In other words, he was sacrificing himself so the warrior would win. There was no genuine attempt to kill the warrior, and therefor no real betrayal. He was in a lose/lose situation and suicide by sith fulfilled his duty to Baras without risking the warrior.The writer confirmed he intended this interpretation and Quinn's official bio only makes sense with this one, not the "Quinn the Betrayer" version. I encourage you to do another warrior playthrough with this interpretation so you can see how well it works.

 

So for the comparison to Theron. Both Theron and Quinn acted as betrayers in the belief it was best for their leader, but weren't. Both Theron and Quinn staged a fake attempt at killing their leader to maintain the roll of betrayer. Many players don't care what either of their intentions actually were and wanted them to die for appearances.

Theron's true intention has become pretty clear on our way chasing him, he's never served two masters, and there is quite a bit time for us to cool down from the anger, it's never set up as a suicidal thing, the kill option is simply stupid.

Slight correction.

I mentioned several pages back that Theron ogles you on Rishi. I misremembered, sort of. I recently played it, and only the Imperial gets the ogle. It's when you first meet on Rishi where Lana reveals herself as the stranger spreading the pirate rumors. As Republic you reunite with Theron inside the safe house building. No ogle. As Imperial Theron meets you outside in the cinematic as you talk to Lana. The ogle happens at the end when the cinematic has you walk to the safe house.

Slight correction.

 

I mentioned several pages back that Theron ogles you on Rishi. I misremembered, sort of. I recently played it, and only the Imperial gets the ogle. It's when you first meet on Rishi where Lana reveals herself as the stranger spreading the pirate rumors. As Republic you reunite with Theron inside the safe house building. No ogle. As Imperial Theron meets you outside in the cinematic as you talk to Lana. The ogle happens at the end when the cinematic has you walk to the safe house.

The "someone in the SIS has a crush on me" line was not out of no where

That is what I am talking about. That is only one possible interpretations of events.

The other one is that Quinn sabotaged the droids with the full expectation of the Warrior killing him. In other words, he was sacrificing himself so the warrior would win. There was no genuine attempt to kill the warrior, and therefor no real betrayal. He was in a lose/lose situation and suicide by sith fulfilled his duty to Baras without risking the warrior.The writer confirmed he intended this interpretation and Quinn's official bio only makes sense with this one, not the "Quinn the Betrayer" version. I encourage you to do another warrior playthrough with this interpretation so you can see how well it works.

 

So for the comparison to Theron. Both Theron and Quinn acted as betrayers in the belief it was best for their leader, but weren't. Both Theron and Quinn staged a fake attempt at killing their leader to maintain the roll of betrayer. Many players don't care what either of their intentions actually were and wanted them to die for appearances.

That is the the issue with "leaving things open to interpretation" they aren't definite, we only have what is there. There is nothing in-game to really suggest that, so the writer is basically allowing people to headcanon what they believe. But that doesn't pass for an actual fact. Quinn's is left up to interpretation, but with Theron we had a definite answer in game right away that left no room for further doubt that he wasn't actually betraying and was just playing double agent. Quinn was loyal to Baras still, but Theron was never loyal to the chiss, gemini, or atrius. His only goal was to pretend he was only to get in close with them and sabotage them for the ultimate benefit of the alliance and the player character. So I wouldn't compare them either, as Theron was never even split between two sides, he was always on yours.

Anyway, I don't mind people who hate characters going back to what the other poster said. I just wish the haters of those characters would simply make their choices, and stop gatekeeping these characters from the rest of us who enjoy them lol

That is the the issue with "leaving things open to interpretation" they aren't definite, we only have what is there. There is nothing in-game to really suggest that, so the writer is basically allowing people to headcanon what they believe. But that doesn't pass for an actual fact. Quinn's is left up to interpretation, but with Theron we had a definite answer in game right away that left no room for further doubt that he wasn't actually betraying and was just playing double agent. Quinn was loyal to Baras still, but Theron was never loyal to the chiss, gemini, or atrius. His only goal was to pretend he was only to get in close with them and sabotage them for the ultimate benefit of the alliance and the player character. So I wouldn't compare them either, as Theron was never even split between two sides, he was always on yours.

There is actually a huge amount in game to suggest that, because that is what the writer intended. The writer's mistake was not hitting people over the head with a two by four. He was too subtle for the majority of the playerbase. He should have handled Quinn like Jaesa and have two versions of the one companion. I believe that because the writer came out and said it was a deliberate alternative, that it is indeed fact. It is NOT headcanon when players understand a story the way the writer intended!

I fully concede that Theron didn't have the same struggle with divided loyalty that Quinn had since the Republic wasn't involved in his traitor arc. Personally, I think that is a very minor difference and not a factor in people's love or hate for either character.

There is actually a huge amount in game to suggest that, because that is what the writer intended. The writer's mistake was not hitting people over the head with a two by four. He was too subtle for the majority of the playerbase. He should have handled Quinn like Jaesa and have two versions of the one companion. I believe that because the writer came out and said it was a deliberate alternative, that it is indeed fact. It is NOT headcanon when players understand a story the way the writer intended!

But the writer didn't even hit people in the head with a feather lol. Again it feels like the writer just trying to make the fans feel better after complaining or upset feedback. You can't not write something in the game and then fault people for taking the story how it is. It would be different if there were actual clues in game, or if Quinn didn't actually try to kill the PC, gloating about programming the perfect killing machines and then acted all surprised and upset that his plan failed, there were zero hints that the bots were sabotaged in the game, just Quinn acting distraught over your survival. Unlike Theron, he wasn't being watched, or putting on a show so no reason to act that way. Quinn even tries to get both Broonmark and Jaesa to join him stating "Barass has no quarrel with you, join me and he will welcome you to the fold", and telling Jaesa that after the PC is dead she will be a valuable asset to Baras after being retrained under him.

It's 100% certain that this wasn't just him talking smack, and that he actually believed this, actually had a conversation with Baras about this and that this was personal. As he does not even try to sway the companions he hated like Vette or Pierce, telling Vette how much he's hated her, and Pierce that he told Baras was not worth the trouble of swaying. So not only did he side with Baras and actively try to kill the PC, he also tried to sway the PC's followers to his side. So no, it's not even in the same ballpark as Theron lol. Quinn had two sides to choose and he deliberately chose Baras. The writer even states this in his message, Quinn's loyalty to you, is overidden by his loyalty to Baras. Whether people forgive him or not is up to them, but he definately betrayed in the context of what's in the game.

title says it all, doing this for fun since there's one for quinn so for all you theron lovers out there enjoy having a decent conversation with other theron fans and talk about how much you like him and love him or features you like about him. Gay, bisexual and women all are welcome! Come in and have a theron love fest!

 

So for me theron is attactive looking even for a 3d fictional character, has a cute butt and a sexy voice (he sounds british to me and that is like a massive certain something for me. Hehe!)

 

add-on: Please keep to the topic at hand of theron and how much you love him, like him, no hate talk, no talking about killing other companions in this thread. This is only to be a theron lovefest so please keep on topic. Thanks!

 

another add-on: For clarity: Comparing theron to other companions and personal opinions about companions are okay and giving reasonings is understandable but let's keep the hate/kill speech out of this.

theron is a traitor!!!

But the writer didn't even hit people in the head with a feather...The writer even states this in his message, Quinn's loyalty to you, is overidden by his loyalty to Baras. Whether people forgive him or not is up to them, but he definately betrayed in the context of what's in the game.

Thanks for writing that up. I enjoyed reading it. It is exactly how I felt. From the PC's point of view, I didn't see any gray area and was sorely disappointed at not being able to "defeat" Quinn right then and there.

That is the most unforgivable too

Thank goodness we're not stuck with that hair or I can't say about the kill option lol

But the writer didn't even hit people in the head with a feather lol. Again it feels like the writer just trying to make the fans feel better after complaining or upset feedback. You can't not write something in the game and then fault people for taking the story how it is. It would be different if there were actual clues in game, or if Quinn didn't actually try to kill the PC, gloating about programming the perfect killing machines and then acted all surprised and upset that his plan failed, there were zero hints that the bots were sabotaged in the game, just Quinn acting distraught over your survival. Unlike Theron, he wasn't being watched, or putting on a show so no reason to act that way. Quinn even tries to get both Broonmark and Jaesa to join him stating "Barass has no quarrel with you, join me and he will welcome you to the fold", and telling Jaesa that after the PC is dead she will be a valuable asset to Baras after being retrained under him.

 

It's 100% certain that this wasn't just him talking smack, and that he actually believed this, actually had a conversation with Baras about this and that this was personal. As he does not even try to sway the companions he hated like Vette or Pierce, telling Vette how much he's hated her, and Pierce that he told Baras was not worth the trouble of swaying. So not only did he side with Baras and actively try to kill the PC, he also tried to sway the PC's followers to his side. So no, it's not even in the same ballpark as Theron lol. Quinn had two sides to choose and he deliberately chose Baras. The writer even states this in his message, Quinn's loyalty to you, is overidden by his loyalty to Baras. Whether people forgive him or not is up to them, but he definately betrayed in the context of what's in the game.

I don't want to highjack this Theron thread, so after this I'm bowing out. To keep things on a friendly, light hearted note, here is an old screenshot I've posted before. https://i.imgur.com/yvLd2DG.jpg

I don't want to highjack this Theron thread, so after this I'm bowing out. To keep things on a friendly, light hearted note, here is an old screenshot I've posted before. https://i.imgur.com/yvLd2DG.jpg

*** is this?! it is so awesome LOL 🤣 but I am not such a fan of the hairstyle of my big red teddy bear in this image 😂

That's the key difference though. No one needs to take what Theron says at face value, for various reasons.

1. There were several obvious hints sprinkled throughout every aspect of the story, from beginning to end making us question every single thing that was done. Like how could the republic's top agent who literally has implants that allows him to lock on to targets, could be such a terrible shot and miss so many times. Yet aim so specifically at a window and a button, and somehow miss the PC everytime, And only shoot Lana with a non-lethal shot. He also verbally counted down the time the PC had. We were also, in dialogue given several options to believe all wasn't as it seemed, options we never got for Quinn.

2. Theron's entire speech was completely out of character and non-sensical. Theron explicitly says "Everything i've done from day one has been to undermine the alliance", The player character already knows this is untrue because everything Theron did thus far actually made the alliance as successful as it became. NOT to undermine it, nothing he did at this point undermined the alliance, so we knew he was either a double agent or putting on a show for someone.

Remember Theron was responsible for bringing in a large chunk of the agents, specialist, and resources he even was the one responsible for the alliance with the Mandalorians. He was the one to find out about the Star Fortresses and assisted us in taking them out. So right off the bat we knew something was up because Theron's entire speech was contradictory to who he was and what he had actually done for the alliance.

3. He clearly assist the PC throughout the entire arc.

4. Even before the whole "betrayal", we get several hints that Theron is only doing this to protect the alliance and the PC, it's especially obvious for a romanced PC listening to his dialogue before all this takes place.

I'm not trying to badmouth Quinn at all, I have saved him on all my characters. But he DID betray us, and it's not the same situation as Theron it just isn't. But that picture is lovely lol.

Recently replayed it. There are clues. In the cut scene after Umbara when the Order calls in Theron places a device under the console. It's not explained what it is, but in a scene soon after Lana mentions intercepting a message between Theron and the Order of Zildrog. That's the first time the Order is mentioned in the player's frame of reference. The interception is of that call.

If you romance Theron he sends you a love letter after Umbara. There's no hate in it. He's asking/begging you to trust him.

On Copero Theron doesn't want that Chiss to fight you at the end. He is hesitant before his ship leaves.

Anyway, played through his marriage proposal again. Sigh.

I sped another agent through the class stories and finally met Theron on Manaan yesterday.

I've never picked the rude dialogue option where you tell him to **** off before. He was so angry o_O

Wish I can replay Forged Alliance to Ziost infinitely. There are so many good dialogues in them.

The thought of having to went through 9 chapters of kotfe to meet Theron again gives me pain.

Man, I can't believe people allowed Boyd to get away with so much back then, remembering the entirety of Nathema. How can one person write something so horribly. It doesn't just mess up Theron's character but Lana's as well.

You won't ever catch me defending his writing. Nathema DS ending destroys both Lana and him as characters and is completely out of character.

I sped another agent through the class stories and finally met Theron on Manaan yesterday.

I've never picked the rude dialogue option where you tell him to **** off before. He was so angry o_O

 

Wish I can replay Forged Alliance to Ziost infinitely. There are so many good dialogues in them.

The thought of having to went through 9 chapters of kotfe to meet Theron again gives me pain.

I could never be mean to him without hitting esc ;-; he's too nice and considerate. I still love how modest he is and how he always defends his friends even when he shouldn't.

You won't ever catch me defending his writing. Nathema DS ending destroys both Lana and him as characters and is completely out of character.

It definately does, on several occassions the way they talk about each other like they're ride or die, and have each other's backs no matter what throughout the game, small example here:

https://imgur.com/a/oiHu4c3

And even during the fight with Valkorian, if you chose not to spare Arcann or Senya

Theron: Lana, make a run for it i'll cover you

Lana: No we fight together, we die together.

Makes it even more obvious neither would ever do what they did in the DS end or even Lana casting Theron out from the beginning, when she should have been the voice of reason to a conflicted PC, NOT ARCANN it should have been Lana believing in Theron. That's why I had to decanonize it in my head as some bizarre alternate universe because it just doesn't make sense for either character given how much they've built up.

You won't ever catch me defending his writing. Nathema DS ending destroys both Lana and him as characters and is completely out of character.

 

I could never be mean to him without hitting esc ;-; he's too nice and considerate. I still love how modest he is and how he always defends his friends even when he shouldn't.

I will never pick the mean dialogue to him again. One of the best quality of Theron is that he still trust and care about people even though he's wronged by the others.