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7.0 Changes are NOT what was promised.


Aberd

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Separating PVE and PVP is something that should have been done years ago. Can it be done with the existing game engine? If the engine supports it, why hasn't it been done? Is there a lot more infrastructure/programming needed that we aren't aware of? Is there some code that is too delicate that is preventing a separation from being implemented? A two to three sentence explanation would probably suffice.

 

Separating the two strikes many of us as a no-brainer solution to the balance question. We already have code in the game that prohibits certain abilities and items from being used in PVP (rocket boost comes to mind). Why not keep all of the abilities but have a separate PVP and PVE databases. Power A does X damage in PVE (including HM, Ops), while in PVP Power A could do Y damage. Power B lasts for X seconds in PVE, and in PVP this Power B (pick your DCD) could last for X-Y%. How much would DCDs need to be reduced to reduce TTK in PVP? 25%? 50%? Have any Devs actually done that math?

 

You want to separate PvP from PvE? It was separate long ago. There was a PvP stat called Expertise which affected your defense and damage done to other players. But somewhere around 3.0 or maybe 4.0, BW removed Expertise. All the PvPers from that time can tell you if that was a good or bad idea; PvP is not really my thing so I don't really know if that was a good or bad move.

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You want to separate PvP from PvE? It was separate long ago. There was a PvP stat called Expertise which affected your defense and damage done to other players. But somewhere around 3.0 or maybe 4.0, BW removed Expertise. All the PvPers from that time can tell you if that was a good or bad idea; PvP is not really my thing so I don't really know if that was a good or bad move.

 

Honestly, PvP shouldn't be affected by your stats at all. Expertise isn't a way to balance PvP and PvE because all it does is make it so that one player with a higher stat does more damage than a player with a lower stat. That isn't balance - that's gatekeeping based on gear.

 

To actually separate PvP and PvE, passives, utilities/ability tree morphs, availability of certain abilities etc. would all need to be taken into account and balanced separately for each mode. Having a different gear stat doesn't change anything. On the other hand, having a set bonus or tactical that only works in PvE and another that only works in PvP would work.

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Specifically what I am not liking is the new "tree". Or rather the choices I am being forced to make, especially at higher levels. Reading through the feedback threads so far, this seems to be a common theme and not limited to the Jedi Knight, Agent or Sith Inquisitor (bugged to high heaven as it is).

 

What I've seen so far on the PTS is a pattern. The first couple "choice levels" (CL) we are presented with a choice between 3 passive (not something to put on an ability bar) abilities that directly affect a previously gained active (put on your bar) ability. I don't mind this.

 

The middle CLs you are given a choice between 1-2 active abilities and 1-2 passive abilities. Now you're forcing me into choices I don't like. I'm almost always going to go for an active ability for the control it gives me.

 

Then there are the high level CLs where you have to choose between 3 active abilities. I really don't like this. For every class BW has put on PTS so far, I currently use all three abilities I'm having to choose from. They may not be "core rotation" abilities, but I assure I use them all. When having to choose between active abilities it makes me feel like a low level character again, despite being max level.

 

My recommendation is to basically leave the discipline system as it is. Maybe give us new high level abilities that replace early game abilities to help prevent ability bloat. Review and modify the current utility tiers if we are to get another utility point(?). If anything needs a major overhaul I would say it is our current utilities. I've said it before that there are utilities that everyone takes (speed boosts) regardless of activity, and others that no-one takes. Take these low level choices being presented and work those into the current utility tree system. Change out some utilities to be more PvP centric and other more PvE focused.

 

Bright idea:

  1. Leave the number of utility points at 9
  2. Between each Tier add a passive ability choice
  3. After Tier 3 add another 3rd passive ability choice

 

At least with the current utility system we can choose which active abilities get buffed and to a limited extent how. For example: for my PT, there are certain fights in which I will go with all the utilities that buff Hydraulic Overrides (I call it my "super hydraulics" build, this includes reduced CD, longer duration, and increased speed utilities).

 

At the current rate of progress BW is not going to have time to develop and implement the "Load Out" or Advanced Class Choice system they promised, not if they want to release during the holidays (I'm sure EA is pressuring them into this time frame). At least not without having a dozen bugs in each.

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Then when I play a Vigilance DPS Knight I have to choose between Enure, Saber Reflect and Blade Blitz. This hurts the team also. I have to forego a DCD or two and to a get out stupid quick ability. Those are life saving / ops wipe saving abilities. If you think a DPS "doesn't need" those, consider this:

  • Tanks loose aggro.
  • Bosses drop Aggro.
  • Tanks die.

DPS needs those DCDs.

The solution in that problem is for the tank to play better and not die or lose aggro like that, not for the player to refuse to choose if they want mobility or survivability (that is a good choice because it asks the player what they value more, do you feel you need more mobility or you are good in that area without it so more survability is the way better choice for you)

 

Also you do realize by saying certain utilities are needed IN CASE those things happen, this means you are asking devs to design the game around the many many many ways, tanks or healers or even dps fail so you have an appropriate response to their failure?

 

That is simply something you cant do because those cases can be endless, so you focus on designing around each person performing their role to a DECENT level based on the difficulty of the content,(DECENT, never perfect level)and base the class design around that.

 

When stuff like that happens when a tank fails and you manage to kite or survive long enough through the DCDs that is not the design intend of the skills you are using, if you are using dcds to survive boss aggro or speed cds to kite, yeah you could have saved the raid by giving enough time for a brez but that was never the reason those skills exist in pve, dcds are created to deal with high burst situations and movement abilities exist to help you avoid mechanics.

 

You cannot go and say you want something to remain the same because of the unintended use of those skills, if anything that is a sign it should be removed to stop the unintended use from being normalized. Players always find ways to use skills in ways people dont think, its a great skill and I absolutely love the ability to be able to do some great plays and save a wipe but that does not make some skills MANDATORY or needed because that is not the reason they exist.

 

And please, people need to keep in mind that pve content is never balanced for perfect performance and that goes for pretty much all high end content in all mmorpgs, so you are rarely """forced""" to pick something for it, because the community, raid or raid leader BELIEVES it is mandatory, doesnt make it mandatory encounter wise, that is social pressure that sadly many people are not capable of ignoring.

 

As a person who likes both pve and pvp(Because of scaling being a thing unlike some other gear based pvp games) I agree that a reset in balance is kinda needed with some classes having a ridiculous amount of dcds and ways to survive, the current ability trees definitely need some work if they are to have a decent choice instead of (1 good for pvp, 1 good for pvp, 1 irrelevant or 1 great ability vs 2 meh abilities) but I completely support the idea behind it.

 

It is understandable that people who had and enjoys a lot of strong cds are not pleased, I am awaiting merc on pts to see how things are gonna go but I would not be surprised if some complain a lot about losing one of their many strong defensives, but this is done for a reason, to reset the advance class balance so in a sense you start new with a better base for the future

Edited by ralphieceaser
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Dw we will get a major update about 6 months or so into the expansion if not less and then those are the big class changes you will get until the next expansion, enjoy the 10 year celebration guys! as it stands with the direction its definitely a longterm step, meaning expect whatever you want to expect out of swtor with ''play how you want'' at the 20th celebration! HURRAYYYY
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@ralphieceaser

You be DECENT all you want. I for one do want to be known as a DECENT tank/dps/healer.

 

I want to be an AWESOME tank/DPS/healer!!

 

To do that, I want all the tools at my disposal. To make me choose between active abilities is asking me to fight with one hand tied behind my back. It feels like I'm a lowbie running veteran flashpoints again. Only in end content operations.

 

Muhammad Ali never went into a title fight wearing just one glove or with one hand tied behind his back.

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It's why I suggested after THINKING it through a lot more the last week or two if they ONLY had revised their plan:

 

"I wished they limited choice to two 2 of the former 3 abilities" --dependant upon which Combat Style you choose!

 

Then focused on PvP Skill Tree &/or PvP specific Tactical Kit's seperate from PvE (only) ones.

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@ralphieceaser

You be DECENT all you want. I for one do want to be known as a DECENT tank/dps/healer.

 

I want to be an AWESOME tank/DPS/healer!!

 

To do that, I want all the tools at my disposal. To make me choose between active abilities is asking me to fight with one hand tied behind my back. It feels like I'm a lowbie running veteran flashpoints again. Only in end content operations.

 

Muhammad Ali never went into a title fight wearing just one glove or with one hand tied behind his back.

 

That logic is flawed. Everyone one else will have the same limitations and choices that you do. You have less, but so does everyone else. It's going to be exactly the same as it is now, you just need to learn to play around these new limitations if you want to be "awesome"

 

Also this is an MMORPG - Massively Multiplayer is the important part here. In recent years the devs gave every class everything; threat drops, cleanses, reflects, self heals, etc. This made a lot of teamwork kind of irrelevant for low/mid tier content.

 

These changes will ensure that you pick what is needed to go along with your team comp, IE - more opportunities to prove how good of a player you are rather than just mashing buttons.

Edited by micnevv
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That logic is flawed. Everyone one else will have the same limitations and choices that you do. You have less, but so does everyone else. It's going to be exactly the same as it is now, you just need to learn to play around these new limitations if you want to be "awesome"

 

Also this is an MMORPG - Massively Multiplayer is the important part here. In recent years the devs gave every class everything; threat drops, cleanses, reflects, self heals, etc. This made a lot of teamwork kind of irrelevant for low/mid tier content.

 

These changes will ensure that you pick what is needed to go along with your team comp, IE - more opportunities to prove how good of a player you are rather than just mashing buttons.

 

BW is deliberately lowering the skill ceiling in the name of "balancing the game", Schmidt all but admitted as much in his last interview about the pruning. Picking the "right" build is going to be a baseline requirement for participating in the challenging content, and that "right build" can easily be determined via google searches and not some magical decision process. As with tacticals and set bonuses, everyone that wants to is going to learn very quickly what they should have for a given situation and it will be easy to switch to it. There will just be less to manage real time than there is now and less ways to distinguish between "decent" play and "great" play. But the "bad" and "completely new" players will stand out more than they do now.

Edited by WaywardOne
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BW is deliberately lowering the skill ceiling in the name of "balancing the game", Schmidt all but admitted as much in his last interview about the pruning. There will just be less to manage real time than there is now and less ways to distinguish between "decent" play and "great" play. But the "bad" and "completely new" players will stand out more than they do now.

 

This is just flat out wrong. These past few expansions Bioware has given every class every ability/utility with the aim of obfuscating the difference between a good and bad player since everyone can now press their multiple get out of jail buttons every few seconds.

 

I would also recommend you have a look at Warcraft logs. Wow's talent tree for raid content is also cookie cutter for the vast majority of classes. However you can still see major differences in performance between average and great players fairly easily.

 

With fewer DCDs and Utilities you will now need to actually think and co-ordinate with your team about how you use the few abilities that you have.

 

Also I see no problem with bad players being more apparent, they should learn like everyone else.

 

Picking the "right" build is going to be a baseline requirement for participating in the challenging content, and that "right build" can easily be determined via google searches and not some magical decision process.

 

This has been the case ever since day 1 of the game with the original talent tree in 1.0.

 

What this new tree does is create more options to customize your playstyle IE; PVP / PVE / Solo PVE.

 

The current talent tree in live is pretty much something you set once and forget that it even exists. Not a great system if you ask me.

 

As with tacticals and set bonuses, everyone that wants to is going to learn very quickly what they should have for a given situation and it will be easy to switch to it.

 

Again, nothing can prevent this from happening in a world where you can just throw values into a bot and have it simulate the optimal choices to pick. This is about creating options for different scenarios so that you aren't playing the same build 24/7 for all content.

 

And finally the overall difficulty of the game currently does not match the number of buttons that you are given for the vast majority of content (not talking about NIM here, it's the only outlier). Levelling is basically brain dead since you can get through it by spamming 1 button, most solo content is made trivial once you have 306 ILVL and most of the raids are barely a challenge for any decent guild at Veteran mode.

 

Finally a point that I should make clear - the current iteration of the new talent tree is NOT perfect. However I believe that it is a step in the right direction.

Edited by micnevv
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With fewer DCDs and Utilities you will now need to actually think and co-ordinate with your team about how you use the few abilities that you have.

 

By co-ordinate you mean 'be on voice'.

 

It's already annoying with the number of pve guilds that have 'must be on voice' requirements for everything, I don't want to find out that in 7.0 even MM pugs will start kicking out players who can't use voice.

 

So far it looks like 7.0 will be both making life more difficult for pugging group content, and also making it harder to solo things like veteran fp and mm chapters that good players have been solo'ing for years.

 

I hope I'm wrong and 7.0 ends up bringing new life into the game even for players who can't use voice, but not having proper HM content to test the new builds on available yet makes it hard for me to be optimistic about 7.0 going live in december and making things better than 6.0 is.

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B Picking the "right" build is going to be a baseline requirement for participating in the challenging content

 

That is a very false and metaslave mentality.

 

No mmorpg challenging encounter is created to require perfect play and the most optimal builds(assuming realistic gear level), there's often multiple ways for an encounter to be beaten based on what your comb has available.

 

That though requires the players to know their classes and understand their encounter in order to be able to take advantage of their toolkit.

 

Because many mmorpg community group finders degenerate to "We only accept you if you play X broken/meta/optimal build or go away" it doesnt make it a requirement, that is completely based on the community's feelings and not based on the fact of how the game works and is designed.

 

In other words that is a community problem, not only here but in most mmorpgs that allow for customization and builds of choice, not something the developers sadly can fix unless they are willing to make weekly or biweekly changes to most skills just to stop a meta from forming.

Edited by ralphieceaser
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This is just flat out wrong. These past few expansions Bioware has given every class every ability/utility with the aim of obfuscating the difference between a good and bad player since everyone can now press their multiple get out of jail buttons every few seconds.

>>

 

What are the "multiple new get out of jail" buttons for guardians and sentinels? Having options that require timing and skill to use are good things. If healing is too much or guard is too much or damage is too low, the way to balance is not to remove options. You're not creating a game that requires more skill by removing pieces/functionality. Checkers doesn't take more skill than chess.

 

<<

I would also recommend you have a look at Warcraft logs. Wow's talent tree for raid content is also cookie cutter for the vast majority of classes. However you can still see major differences in performance between average and great players fairly easily.

>>

 

You can see differences between good and great players to an extent right now with swtor - most people are playing the same builds with the same gear but still, some players do much better than others. Those differences are going to be reduced in 7.0 (not eliminated) - that is what happens when you reduce real time options. These are the PTS forums for swtor, right? I'm really not interested in references to other games unless the current situations mirror swtor's. Warcraft right now does not mirror where swtor's going in 7.0.

 

<<

With fewer DCDs and Utilities you will now need to actually think and co-ordinate with your team about how you use the few abilities that you have.

>>

 

The "thinking" part is going to be over in the first month or two of the expac. There's no new required coordination that doesn't happen right now - in fact there will be less because things that people can do now won't be available in 7.0. After a month or two, when people aren't really "thinking" anymore, people are going to get yelled at for not using google.

 

<<

Also I see no problem with bad players being more apparent, they should learn like everyone else.

>>

 

You don't but BW does. That's why they made starter PVP gear better and easier and easier to get until they finally removed it completely and bolstered everyone that tries a little to have very comparable stats in most situations. The problem is that when bad players have bad experiences they tend to stop playing, only a few press on to get better especially when lots of people are yelling at them. BW loves their bad players.

Edited by WaywardOne
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What I said above...

 

It's why I suggested after THINKING it through a lot more the last week or two if they ONLY had revised their plan:

 

"I wished they limited choice to two 2 of the former 3 abilities" --dependant upon which Combat Style you choose!

 

Then focused on PvP Skill Tree &/or PvP specific Tactical Kit's seperate from PvE (only) ones.

Edited by Strathkin
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I would also recommend you have a look at Warcraft logs. Wow's talent tree for raid content is also cookie cutter for the vast majority of classes. However you can still see major differences in performance between average and great players fairly easily.

I am actively playing WoW rn and I can tell you that gap can be seeing very clearly even to this day, and that is coming from someone who plays the most non meta yet fun legendaries/specs and covenants and does 20s, bad players will always be visible no matter how meta they play because they follow guides and cant understand them.

And you are aware that wow classes have been prunned a lot since WoD, with only few weak flavor abilities returning in the last xpac (Often at the expense of previous utility, cough cough displacement gone for arcane due to alter time)

Yet as you have said, the skill differences are still quite enormous and obvious, most classes dont have 3-4 strong dcds, some barely have 1 good one, yet again skill differences are still there and quite enormous.

 

 

Those differences are going to be reduced in 7.0 (not eliminated) - that is what happens when you reduce real time options. These are the PTS forums for swtor, right? I'm really not interested in references to other games unless the current situations mirror swtor's. Warcraft right now does not mirror where swtor's going in 7.0.

I would say wow does mirror where swtor is going cuz wow has gone through a serious amount of prunning yet skill differences are still quite enormous.

 

 

The "thinking" part is going to be over in the first month or two of the expac. There's no new required coordination that doesn't happen right now - in fact there will be less because things that people can do now won't be available in 7.0. After a month or two, when people aren't really "thinking" anymore, people are going to get yelled at for not using google.

I am pretty sure he was referring to real time coordination and use of other utilities since dcds did dominate in importance and also extended the duration of pvp matches by a decent amount, some would argue too long.

I understand the value of many dcds and how at the hands of a good player it might make you extremely hard to kill but at the same time it does feel some classes have gone a little out of control in terms of defensives so I can absolutely understand the desire to clear the board and start fresh and try to balance things from there which is what I am ok with this.

A reset is always needed every now and then and it will definitely make the skill differences less in pvp at least since good players will no longer be able to be almost immortal in regs but I feel that isnt such a bad thing, you ll simply have to play better and smarter to survive as much as b4 without depending on some abilities that almost become a crutch for some, the difference might technically be less but it will still be enormous and WoW attests to that.

A wow related example would be how average players for example by playing the most meta broken specs are able to time 20s by brute forcing them with their spec's broken amounts of damage even though they repeatedly fail mechanics and wipe, playing meta for such people becomes a crutch and is what carries them through the content, not their skill.

In pvp obviously things are very different since sadly it means you have to depend on others being good since you no longer will be able to survive as much through good useage of dcds, which i absolutely agree does kinda suck, but I feel the value of a reset is a lot higher than my personal feelings on how much i enjoy being almost unkillable at times as a dps in regs

 

 

That's why they made starter PVP gear better and easier and easier to get until they finally removed it completely and bolstered everyone that tries a little to have very comparable stats in most situations. The problem is that when bad players have bad experiences they tend to stop playing, only a few press on to get better especially when lots of people are yelling at them. BW loves their bad players.

Let's not pretend this is about skill when it comes to pvp, thankfully with the amount of dcds and utility this game has skill in pvp becomes pretty clear, good players are very hard to kill.

No offense but this is a little ironic to try to imply skill issues and then complain about swtor's fair pvp system where everyone is equal and skill is what decides a fight instead of higher ilvl.

 

That is why swtor is known for the far more fun and enjoyable pvp while WoW's pvp has gone to the trash bin since they keep trying to bring back gear>>>skill so now it is all about gear grind because it doesnt matter how good you are, you wont kill a mythic geared characters with your low ilvl set you just started with.

 

So at least that argument does not stand because if they truly cared about giving low skilled players an advantage so they can have fun and feel strong, they would go the WoW route where they would ask them to grind gear so they can 2 shot the players who are still in the process of trying to get said gear.

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And you are aware that wow classes have been prunned a lot since WoD, with only few weak flavor abilities returning in the last xpac (Often at the expense of previous utility, cough cough displacement gone for arcane due to alter time)

 

Much of Wow's pruning has been reversed. My current max level characters in Wow have very similar numbers of action bar buttons to my Swtor characters, some even have more. In 7.0 my level 80 Swtor knights on test right now have fewer buttons than their level max level counterparts had in 2012. And much fewer buttons than my Wow warrior has.

 

Wow also has a gear ladder that separates players/character's abilities, swtor's gearing is much easier unless you want the 300 augments that don't do much anyways.

Edited by WaywardOne
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Much of Wow's pruning has been reversed. My current max level characters in Wow have very similar numbers of action bar buttons to my Swtor characters, some even have more. In 7.0 my level 80 Swtor knights on test right now have fewer buttons than their level max level counterparts had in 2012. And much fewer buttons than my Wow warrior has.

 

Wow also has a gear ladder that separates players/character's abilities, swtor's gearing is much easier unless you want the 300 augments that don't do much anyways.

Bringing back pointless useless abilities like fire blast for frost/arcane mages did not add anything because you never use them because they dont fit with the spec, they ve done this with many specs just to create the illusion of bringing up old abilities and de-prunning. Most specs cuz maybe 1 useful ability from old, later time being one for mages, they havent done any major deprunning.

 

More importantly design wise WoW has nothing like swtor's ultra strong defensives we have right now so you cant really compare them in swtor's current form.

Mage for example has a strong immunity that doesnt let him attack, ice block, has a minor 20% damage reduction and a weak barrier, you can argue alter time is a defensive but anyone decent will spam purge it.

Hunters have again a strong immunity which doesnt let them attack in the form of turtle, a minor 20% damage reduction

Warlocks the most immobile class only have a baseline 40% damage reduction on a 3min cooldown which is why they often get trucked in pvp against melee

And so on for many other specs

 

Meanwhile merc and other classes have defensives that make them nigh immortal for the duration while also letting them attack, so as of right now, swtor has the far bigger and stronger dcds which can often be rotated because some specs have multiple of those god tier defensives.

 

So in 7.0, it would rly be turning more into wow, than less, well WoW with actual good pvp since wow's pvp has been a dumbsterfire for a while now.

 

 

And you seem to confuse skill with gear, there's a ton of bad players who get high in ladders simply because they abuse broken specs or bought gear while their skill is very clearly lacking, pvp in wow is very gear>>>skill exactly because the devs have failed to understand that skill should be the determining factor in pvp thus forcing scaling just like swtor.

 

Swtor has the superior pvp experience because there's no major gear advantages because nobody DESERVES to have gear advantages in a PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER mode where skill should be the defining factor.

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More importantly design wise WoW has nothing like swtor's ultra strong defensives we have right now so you cant really compare them in swtor's current form.

 

That was my argument - 7.0 swtor is not going to be similar enough to current Wow. Saying that current Wow requires skill and allows some players to shine vs others is not relevant to an argument about massive pruning in swtor since current Wow is not a recently/massively pruned game. But my guardian will still have focused defense, most classes are keeping their "ultra strong dcds", they're just losing some of the extras that take skill to use well.

 

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Mage for example has a strong immunity that doesnt let him attack

>>

 

That is a bad example. Barrier and Block are almost identical abilities. Also mages can have 20 second damage shields just like sages. But I'm not going to get into an argument about how the game's aren't identical because they aren't.

 

<<

So in 7.0, it would rly be turning more into wow, than less, well WoW with actual good pvp since wow's pvp has been a dumbsterfire for a while now.

>>

 

I heartily disagree about 7.0 turning into Wow. SWTOR pvp is suffering from: healing is too good, guard is too good, dps is too low, there's too much cc, certain tacticals and set bonuses are problematic. From what I can see so far in 7.0 cc isn't really changing, there's still much too much for most classes, dps is going up (maybe), guard isn't changing, set bonuses and tacticals are a ?. Except for a couple standouts, DCDs are not why swtor currently sucks.

 

In many respects lowbie pvp in swtor is better than 6.0: cc is less, healing is much less, damage is much easier to get higher, no tacticals or set bonuses, tanks don't out-dps anyone, everyone can die, etc.. But the game involves less skill than endgame pvp and more of the fights are very rock-paper-scissors.

 

<<

And you seem to confuse skill with gear, there's a ton of bad players who get high in ladders simply because they abuse broken specs or bought gear while their skill is very clearly lacking, pvp in wow is very gear>>>skill exactly because the devs have failed to understand that skill should be the determining factor in pvp thus forcing scaling just like swtor.

>>

 

In Wow gear matters a lot, gear can make up for skill in many fights. A mediocre player with great gear can beat a good one without it, all else being equal. In swtor that's also true but it's far easier at the moment to get enough gear that, with bolster, there won't be much difference. Except for the tacticals and set bonuses which are very game changing in the right hands.

 

<<

Swtor has the superior pvp experience because there's no major gear advantages because nobody DESERVES to have gear advantages in a PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER mode where skill should be the defining factor.

>>

 

That's one point of view, I don't agree. I would argue that Wow's pvp is a bit better than SWTOR's in many respects even at the moment. But this is a different argument/conversation.

Edited by WaywardOne
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Ok so for some background I love Star Wars and I'm a fairly new player to the game, like it hasn't even been a month since I started, nor have I put as much effort into any MMOs until this one, in fact I even decided to sub after just a couple days I was enjoying it that much! When I saw the update for 7.0 in the launcher and read the brief snippet they gave here on it I was actually looking forward to it because it made it seem like they were just going to lift the class restriction on the weapons you used.

 

But as I started to play the game more, gaining more abilities, joining a guild and doing activities with them, reading up on more detailed info for how to play my class to better support my friends and guildmates. I came to this understanding that having all of these abilities whether I used them frequently or not is to my benefit. So when I started to delve more into the 7.0 info coming out of the PTS and seeing how all the classes are getting abilities cut from them in order to simplify it for the user and especially newcomers like myself, I felt like that was such a disrespect to this game and others who enjoy and more importantly me as I put in my own time to learn how to play this MMO more effectively. Essentially what I'm understanding from the devs is that I'm too stupid to manage my own abilities so they are going to limit what I can and can't use in their game.

 

Now I don't know what they could do to improve the game besides reading the posts of veteran players in this area of gaming so I can't really add much input there. Now saying that I do think there are other areas of they game they could improve on like the menu's.....now some those I think could be consolidated down to where they are just tabs along side each other in the same context menu. For example I would personally like the guild menu merged into the logs menu, much like how the inventory menu has the different tabs at the top and but also has quick pop outs attached to the left side, that's brilliant and reduces clutter for me! I also think the UI could be more modernized but still keeping it themed in the style and feel of Star Wars.

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Ok so for some background I love Star Wars and I'm a fairly new player to the game, like it hasn't even been a month since I started, nor have I put as much effort into any MMOs until this one, in fact I even decided to sub after just a couple days I was enjoying it that much! When I saw the update for 7.0 in the launcher and read the brief snippet they gave here on it I was actually looking forward to it because it made it seem like they were just going to lift the class restriction on the weapons you used.

 

But as I started to play the game more, gaining more abilities, joining a guild and doing activities with them, reading up on more detailed info for how to play my class to better support my friends and guildmates. I came to this understanding that having all of these abilities whether I used them frequently or not is to my benefit. So when I started to delve more into the 7.0 info coming out of the PTS and seeing how all the classes are getting abilities cut from them in order to simplify it for the user and especially newcomers like myself, I felt like that was such a disrespect to this game and others who enjoy and more importantly me as I put in my own time to learn how to play this MMO more effectively. Essentially what I'm understanding from the devs is that I'm too stupid to manage my own abilities so they are going to limit what I can and can't use in their game.

 

Now I don't know what they could do to improve the game besides reading the posts of veteran players in this area of gaming so I can't really add much input there. Now saying that I do think there are other areas of they game they could improve on like the menu's.....now some those I think could be consolidated down to where they are just tabs along side each other in the same context menu. For example I would personally like the guild menu merged into the logs menu, much like how the inventory menu has the different tabs at the top and but also has quick pop outs attached to the left side, that's brilliant and reduces clutter for me! I also think the UI could be more modernized but still keeping it themed in the style and feel of Star Wars.

 

This is a great post from a new player. Ability pruning is not the answer in making the game easier. Very small pruning is fine, but not losing core abilities on each class.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Getting back to the promises made, I was so irritated with the lack of choice on PTS that I went back through every announcement.

This is exactly what was said in July:

 

More Choices in How You Play

 

Introducing Combat Styles! Players can now separate their Class Story from gameplay style for an even greater customization experience. This frees up Advanced Class options as characters can choose any Advanced Class within the Tech or Force playstyle! Play as a Trooper wielding a Sniper Rifle, or a Sith Inquisitor with a lightsaber in each hand, or even secretly use Dark Side powers while posing as a member of the Jedi Order. Loadouts will increase your ability to customize, allowing you to swap between playstyles and gear with a click.

 

August 6 Announcement:

While the current array of Class and Advanced Class options allows you to create characters resembling many of your favorite characters, they don’t cover all of the most popular character/combat combinations from other Star Wars media. Boba Fett is a bounty hunter who primarily uses a rifle, Captain Rex is a soldier who fights with two pistols, and so on. Wouldn’t it be great if SWTOR let you create and customize these awesome characters, and more?

 

For Legacy of the Sith, our goal is to do just that. By separating your combat gameplay choice (Advanced Class) from your storyline choice (Class), you can make characters with new story and gameplay combinations that allow you to create your own personal Star Wars characters. In order to make the new options clearer, we’ve updated the names:

Classes will become Origin Stories, embodying your character’s voice, background, and where their story begins in the Old Republic.

Advanced Classes will become Combat Styles which determines how your character fights from level 1 and beyond.

 

There are still two limitations on which Combat Styles are available to which Origin Stories:

If your character has a blaster-wielding Origin Story--Trooper, Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, or Agent--they will have access to only the “Tech” Combat Styles: Vanguard, Commando, Powertech, Mercenary, Scoundrel, Gunslinger, Operative, and Sniper.

If your character has a Force-based Origin Story--Jedi Knight, Jedi Consular, Sith Warrior, or Sith Inquisitor--they will initially only have access to other Force-based Combat Styles that match their faction’s overall alignment:

Jedi Knights and Jedi Consulars will be able to choose between Guardian, Sentinel, Sage, or Shadow Combat Styles at level 1.

Sith Warriors and Sith Inquisitors will be able to choose between Juggernaut, Marauder, Sorcerer, or Assassin Combat Styles at level 1.

If your character’s choices lead them away from their faction’s alignment and down the path of light side or dark side, they will eventually unlock the option to pick the other faction’s Combat Styles in addition to their own.

 

And then nothing for months on that. The PTS doesn't reflect this at all.

So unless I can actually play a trooper with a sniper, this was a completely empty announcement, if not an outright lie.

Nobody has addressed this yet, they're just quietly letting the community forget about what was actually announced

Edited by CoraxTechnica
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...

So unless I can actually play a trooper with a sniper, this was a completely empty announcement, if not an outright lie.

Nobody has addressed this yet, they're just quietly letting the community forget about what was actually announced

 

That's not what we've been testing - they've been clear about what specific parts of 7.0 we're supposed to test. The testing on the PTS is revolving entirely around how much nerfing players can tolerate. Presumably there are many things in 7.0 that we're not going to see until it gets released. I have no doubt that Troopers will be able to use sniper rifles when 7.0 goes live (and I'm equally sure Powertechs won't be using sniper rifles).

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Wellllll, it looks like BioWare has other ideas about that---> https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9975594#edit9975594

 

I'm sure we'll have a list of features (I really hope we get more than what they mentioned in that post) but I doubt that these are on PTS or ever will be which was what my post and the post I responded to was about.

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