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Some Carnage Alacrity Numbers Testing


Ikzdeh

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I was testing around on my Carnage Marauder, building gear for pvp.

Carnage is intressting for alacrity testing cause Bersec and force chocke tooltip - Berserc shows the global cooldown, Force choke is a cooldown and has a casttime (what i assmue is about one gcd).

 

This gives us numbers to look at, for example at a 1,35second force choke channel time, the GCD of Berserc swaps around from 1,4seconds at 40,8 forcechoke cd to 1,3seconds at 40,4 forcechoke cd.

The diffrence is about ~30 alacrity +/- at 1443 its 1,4 and 1415 its 1,3...

(EDIT for better explain: https://imgur.com/a/M0cK1c4 )

How does that now work ingame - does the combat regonize 0,01 diffrences in gcd and casttime? Or does alacrity between 1,31 and 1,39 gcd have no effect? Assmuing its always better to go for 1,3 or 1,29 over 1,31.

 

Im goal isnt highest pve dps here - i want build for pvp, the goal is more globals on force choke, less cd on force choke for kills with stun/enemy cannot react. At 1,5gcd and force choke channel time, theres 2,5second stun left for 1,5gcds following - at 1sec berserc gcd, theres 3globals after the casttime.

 

Do i have to go down for a flat 1.0sec or 0.99sec casttime on choke or is 1.05 enough?

Edited by Ikzdeh
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GCD values change in increments of 0.1 seconds. But Channelling and Activation times are modified by up to 0.01 second increments. So, Alacrity increases always help Channelling and Activation times. To improve GCD, Alacrity values have to hit specific thresholds, otherwise there's no GCD benefit. Edited by mike_carton
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How does that now work ingame - does the combat regonize 0,01 diffrences in gcd and casttime? Or does alacrity between 1,31 and 1,39 gcd have no effect? Assmuing its always better to go for 1,3 or 1,29 over 1,31.

The game does NOT recognize 0.01 differences in gcd, it rounds to the nearest tenth of a second. Therefore, if you had enough alacrity percentage such that your global cooldown would be calculated to be between 1.31 seconds and 1.39 seconds, it will have no effect on the global cooldown, as both outcomes will round up to 1.4 seconds.

 

So, we recognize the following "thresholds" of global cooldowns. That is, you have to have at least that much alacrity percentage to reach the next threshold or tier of global cooldown:

- 7.14% alacrity percentage results in a 1.4 second global cooldown

- 15.39% alacrity percentage results in a 1.3 second global cooldown

- 25% alacrity percentage results in a 1.2 second global cooldown

- 36.36% alacrity percentage results in a 1.1 second global cooldown

- 50% alacrity percentage results in a 1 second global cooldown

 

Obviously, some of these percentage goals are not achievable with alacrity rating alone, and they require special buffs, for example, the 3% alacrity percentage passive increase within the Carnage discipline or the 30% boost during a Berserk window.

 

Do i have to go down for a flat 1.0sec or 0.99sec casttime on choke or is 1.05 enough?

Choke doesn't have a cast or activation time. However, it does have a channel duration, which is what I presume you meant to say. The activation time, channel duration, and ability cooldown of any individual ability can be affected by the character's alacrity percentage. Some abilities are NOT affected by alacrity, for example, I think the cooldown on in-combat revive abilities are not affected by alacrity. Sometimes it is noted in the ability tooltip but usually you have to search the patch notes to see if there was a change to the ability so that alacrity doesn't affect it. If the ability is affected by alacrity, then the effect will be rounded to the nearest hundredth of a second. In the case of some abilities, that means you may need more alacrity percentage (and therefore rating) to ensure that an ability either finishes its activation or comes back in the same number of global cooldowns at a new global cooldown threshold.

 

So, for a healing ability on a healer class, having an activation time that is less than the global cooldown can be helpful. For example, sages have a heal called Benevolence, which has a base default activation time of 1.5 seconds. If you wanted to have enough alacrity percentage on your sage to reach the 1.3s GCD, you would normally need that 15.39% alacrity percentage I mentioned above. However, if you calculate the effect on the activation time or cast time for benevolence, you find that 15.39% alacrity percentage only reduces the activation time to 1.299939 seconds. Depending on your system's latency and any differences in rounding that occurs with floating point calculations on the game servers, that may or may not be enough of a reduction to ensure that the game servers always recognize that your benevolence is casted within one GCD. To be safe, you may want to actually have more alacrity percentage to push that new activation time down to something with a little more wiggle room. In this example, 16.28% alacrity percentage results in a calculated activation time (cast time) of 1.28999 seconds, which give your system and the servers a little bit more wiggle room to ensure you get your benevolence cast off within one GCD.

By the same token, for an ability with a channel time, you might want to make sure that a certain number of ticks occur within a certain number of GCD's, and you can figure that out as well.

 

The "New" Cooldown, activation time, or channel duration of any ability is equal to the Base Cooldown divided by (1+ alacrity percentage expressed as a decimal).

 

But for a "hard stun" like force choke, you would want that to last as long as possible, and shortening the channel time is harmful. Unfortunately, it is unavoidable given all the other advantages increasing alacrity can give you, especially for Carnage.

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GCD values change in increments of 0.1 seconds. But Channelling and Activation times are modified by up to 0.01 second increments.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. Does make sense.

 

- 15.39% alacrity percentage results in a 1.3 second global cooldown

 

Your numbers seem to be a bit off.

I am reaching the ~1,35gcd at 11,3% (8,3% alacrity, 3% carnage buff). < thats where the tooltip shows 1,3 over 1,4 on berserc (1,35 can be both, 1,4 and 1,3...)

With the 30% berserc i reach the 1,0gcd and 1,05 channel on force choke, at 41,3% alacrity.

 

15,4% seems to be the 1,30gcd? Seems not right on Carnage Marauder with only one cast.

 

I saw alot of diffrent breakpoint numbers floating around on the internet - maybe it changed with diffrent versions of the game, latest update?

4% isnt a small diffrence, maybe a diffrent time where min/max with augments were less?

Or am i missing some?

 

But for a "hard stun" like force choke, you would want that to last as long as possible, and shortening the channel time is harmful.

 

I am not sure thats how force choke works. At 1,05sec channeltime with berserc its still a 4second stun. Where i should get 3gcds during the stun and the 4th 0,05seconds after.

Does canceling the channel at 1,0 of 1,05 reduce the stun reduration? Since thats where i hit the next global.

Edited by Ikzdeh
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Your numbers seem to be a bit off.

I am reaching the ~1,35gcd at 11,3% (8,3% alacrity, 3% carnage buff). < thats where the tooltip shows 1,3 over 1,4 on berserc (1,35 can be both, 1,4 and 1,3...)

 

No, it can't be both, because there is no such thing as a "~1.35gcd" because global cooldown is not rounded to the hundredths, its rounded up to the nearest tenth. Therefore, you either have sufficient alacrity percentage to reach the 1.3 second global cooldown, which is about 15.39% (15.4% if you want to be safe), or you are at a 1.4s GCD. Under the Berserk window, with your stated 11.3% alacrity percentage, you will be at 41.3% alacrity percentage during the window, which will be a 1.1 second global cooldown

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Sorry, my bad english - i meant a 1,35 casttime can be both, 1,4sec or 1,3sec gcd - cause thats the breakpoint where it swaps..

 

Why does my berserc show a 1,3sec gcd at 11,3% alacrity?

I am also getting the 1,0 gcd and 1,05 casttime at 41,3% alacrity.

I tested with ~30 less alacrity stat and berserc shows 1,4sec, but forcechoke still 1,35 casttime.

https://imgur.com/a/M0cK1c4

Take a look at the forcechoke cooldown - at 40,05 to 40,04 its the breakpoint - or am i wrong?

 

I think you are wrong. 50% is only for 1.0gcd casts, melees can have it at 41,3%.

Why are my numbers so diffrent? How did you test it?

No hate - i just like detailed min/maxing without lag tolerance.

 

I would assmue its 11,3% for melee and 1,44% for caster?

 

3% more alacrity is more than one slot on gear and 8% only possible with the on-use relic for a limited time. Doesnt seem advicable as Melee.

Edited by Ikzdeh
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Sorry, my bad - i meant a 1,35 casttime can be both, 1,4sec or 1,3sec gcd - cause thats the breakpoint where it swaps..

 

Why does my berserc show a 1,3sec gcd at 11,3% alacrity?

I am also getting the 1,0 gcd and 1,05 casttime at 41,3% alacrity.

I tested with ~30 less alacrity stat and berserc shows 1,4sec, but forcechoke still 1,35 casttime.

https://imgur.com/a/M0cK1c4

Take a look at the forcechoke cooldown - at 40,05 to 40,04 its the breakpoint - or am i wrong?

 

I think you are wrong. 50% is only for 1.0gcd casts, melees can have it at 41,3%.

Why are my numbers so diffrent? How did you test it?

No hate - i just like detailed min/maxing without lag tolerance.

 

3%/8% more alacrity is more than one slot on gear.

 

Your screenshot shows berserk at a 1.3s COOLDOWN as in the coooldown of the ability itself, not the global cooldown. Because ability tooltips don’t display the GLOBAL cooldown anywhere.

 

Melee or ranged or force or tech make no difference. Either you have 50% alacrity percentage (under the right buffs) or you don’t.

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I get what you mean. Berserc as a abilty doesnt has a GCD, but it does show a cooldown value that scales with alacrity and the forcechoke channel.

What is a 1,5sec cast at 0 alacrity that scales to exacly 1sec channeltime at 50% alacrity and lower above - whats a very accurate indicator.

 

I dont know how to test that else, theese tooltips are the most accurate proof i can find.

How did you test your number?

Edited by Ikzdeh
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I get what you mean. Berserc as a abilty doesnt has a GCD, but it does show a cooldown value that scales with alacrity and the forcechoke channel - what is a 1,5sec cast at 0 alacrity that scales to exacly 1sec channeltime at 50% alacrity and lower above.

 

I dont know how to test that else, theese tooltips are the most accurate proof i can find.

 

How did you test your number?

 

I went to the test dummy and spammed my instant free basic attack at different levels of alacrity percentage for at least 4 min and 33 seconds. Then I parsed the combat logs using StarParse and figured out how many activations of the basic attack I had in the set amount of time and compared the data sets to see if the # of activations matched, within a couple or so, what I would have expected if the GCD was exactly what I was targeting. I did this back in October of 2019 shortly after 6.0 came out. You can search for my threads on this topic.

 

EDIT: in other words, if you have No alacrity at all, or, at least, only the 3% from discipline, then your GCD will still be at 1.5 seconds. That means, if you run a test as described for 4 min 33 seconds or 273 seconds you would expect 182 activations of your basic attack. Obviously that result of 182 activations is what you would see with zero reaction time (not humanly possible) and no latency (not physically possible), so that's a best-case scenario. Your result will be no better than 182. If you put on enough gear to have greater than 7.14% alacrity percentage including your carnage discipline bonus (>662 rating in most cases), you should see a 1.4 second global cooldown which will result in 195 activations of your basic attack. If you then put on enough gear to see a final alacrity percentage of 15.39% (which should be > 2375 rating as carnage discipline), your GCD will be 1.3s, and during that 273 second test you should see 210 activations. You can pick any alacrity rating value between 662 and 2375 and you will see the same # of activations, approximately 195. If GCD was rounded to the hundredths you would see a much larger variation, with results closer to 210 the closer you got to 2375. However, you should not really observe that and hence one can conclude with reasonable certainty that GCD is rounding up to the nearest tenth as advertised.

Edited by phalczen
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If you have a link for the data i am gladly take a look at it.

 

If you run a test for 5minutes lag could be an issue, a 2sec lag every minute, thats a loss of ~7gcds, at 3sec lag every minute you lose about ~15gcd and so on. That can already make a 195 attacks look like 182 attacks. A 1/20 second loss wouldnt suprise me in this game xD More alacrity doesnt work as tolerance, since the server doesnt react faster anyway.

 

with zero reaction time (not humanly possible)

Didnt you use a spamable abilty for your tests? This shouldnt be an issue on testing GCD.

 

that GCD is rounding up to the nearest tenth as advertised.

 

So 1,35 is rounded up to 1,4 rather than 1,3? Would a 1,354 round down and a 1,356 round up? Or does theese numbers dont matter - since they have effect on force chocke cd at the same channeltime.

 

Do abitly cooldown get rounded down, showing 1,3sec berserc cooldown at 1,354 forcechoke channeltime but gcd gets always rounded up to 1,4?

Whats the reason they behaive diffrent.? Wouldnt that mean casters with a 1,34cast have a 1,4sec gcd - effectifly wasting 0,06sec every cast? Thats easy to test if thers a spamable cast with 1,5casttime at 0alacrity.

Edited by Ikzdeh
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If you have a link for the data i am gladly take a look at it.

 

Not sure combat log parsing is a good indicator, a 1sec lag delay on connection bring your data off by 10x 0,1sec. What could result in your number being higher.

 

I don't have it stored on the web but here is one thread:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=970716&highlight=common+multiple&page=5

 

You may have to go back a page.

 

The only way to test if the GCD is working is by hitting the dummy and parsing the combat logs. In a pvp environment where lag and latency may be high, your mileage may vary of course, but if you want to know if something is working, parsing is the only way to do that.

 

Anyway, I guess I don't really understand what you are asking anymore, since you clearly thought the tooltip for Berserk was displaying the global cooldown and not its own cooldown.

 

EDIT: Also I don't really play my sentinel/marauder that much and I know even less about Carnage in particular.

Edited by phalczen
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i done some parsing tests with 11,4% alacrity and you seem to be right, that i am unable to reach a 1,3gcd up untill 15,4%.

 

What a odd game design, that casts scale below its own gcd if not reaching a breakpoint.

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So, now that we have that out of the way ...

 

If you want to have enough alacrity rating so that, including your Carnage 3% discipline buff, you have 20% alacrity percentage normally and 50% under Berserk, then you will need about 3728 alacrity rating to do that. That's certainly possible, but you may have to sacrifice some accuracy to maintain enough critical rating. If you are trying to burst down a player in a few global cooldowns you need high critical rating to do that. Many players sacrifice the usually obligatory 110% accuracy for something less, just realize this will result in some misses against sages and sorcs who have 10% defense chance as opposed to the 5% of other classes.

 

With a global cooldown of 1 second during Berserk, it can be useful to ensure that abilties with cast times or channel times occur over the same number of global cooldowns as they would without Berserk, so that the flow of your rotation isn't interrupted. For example, the base channel duration of Force Choke with 0 alacrity percentage is 1.5 seconds and its ability cooldown is 60 seconds. That means its channel duration is exactly the same as one GCD. But, individual ability cooldowns round to the nearest hundredth of a second, so alacrity ratings in-between normal GCD breakpoints WILL affect the channel time of Force Choke. 20% alacrity is, of course, in between 15.39% and 25%, so the global cooldown will still be 1.3 seconds normally (that is, not under Berserk), but the channel time on Force choke will be 1.25 seconds. That ought to be enough wiggle room that your channel of Force Choke should complete before the GCD finishes (without Berserk).

 

However, if you want a little extra wiggle room during the Berserk window (how much room depends on your reaction time and your connection's latency), you could try for a channel time of Force Choke under 1 second. To get it to 0.99 seconds (only under Berserk of course) you would need to run 21.59% alacrity percentage, or 18.59% alacrity percentage without the discipline passive 3%. You need 4279 alacrity rating to get a final alacrity percentage of 21.59% on your character sheet, which ought to round off to a 0.99 second channel time (under Berserk). 4279 alacrity rating is a lot of your stat budget, and I'm not sure you want to sacrifice that much of your other tertiary stats.

 

So, to summarize,

You need alacrity rating of 3728 to have 1 second global cooldown during Berserk

You need alacrity rating of 4279 to get a 0.99 second channel time for Force Choke during Berserk.

 

So, I would recommend that you try out alacrity ratings between 3728 and 4279 on the test dummy, to see if you can routinely complete the Force Choke channel by the time the GCD is finished. Depending on rounding differences between machines, your connection latency, and your reaction time, you may not need exactly 4279 to accomplish this, but I suspect you will need to be close. Once you've figured out the amount of alacrity rating you need to be comfortable, then perhaps you can decide if you can sacrifice enough accuracy and critical to make that alacrity rating happen.

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I already done some testing at 0,99 sec force choke channel. Its not worth, since you sacrifice too much crit and accuracy.

From 2350 to 4279 is about ~2k alcrity, 5x 400 stat items.

 

The gains are just to low for the investment - force choke cd goes down from 31sec to 29sec. 2 seconds for double alacrity? no thanks.

 

 

it can be useful to ensure that abilties with cast times or channel times occur over the same number of global cooldowns as they would without Berserk, so that the flow of your rotation isn't interrupted.

 

I think the bigger deal is the cooldown reduction. Not only on force choke, intim roar, even force charge or ravage.

 

But bringing force chocke down from 60 seconds, -15 with talent, -6 with alacrity gear and another -8 with berserc end at about 31sec cooldown - almost half of the original.

As far i know Carnage is the only specc with Berserc, therefore the only specc that can stun on that low cooldown. Having double as many stuns per minute, is pretty good in pvp. Can force their CC breaker and kill 30sec later.

 

With berserc i end at a 1,03 force choke channel, i guess i am at the 1,1gcd (cant parse test berserc 3min) - so i would get 2 globals (gore, vicious throw) during my stun and the third 0,23 seconds after where i would hit my ravage immobilze into Blast - bursting about a 100k dmg over 5-6seconds, maybe even more with the power relic ready.

Feels good in pvp, i can combo someone to pop their defensive, stealth and do it again after ~20/30 seconds where i kill pretty save.

 

Sidenote: Berserc is wierd. Its 6 stacks of 30% alacrity, that can snapshot abiltys on a lower cooldown.

There are abiltys as Furious Power or Ferocity that gain the lower cooldown from bersercs alacrity, without consuming a stack!

But there are also abiltys as Mad Dash, that doesnt gain anything from alacrity but consume a stack.

Edited by Ikzdeh
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  • 3 weeks later...

I tried with something out recently about the alacrity on Combat Sent/Carnage Mara. Normally u aim for 713 points in alacrity but u actually need just 647 pts for that to reach the GCD u want to have. Maybe that helps a bit.

 

Cheers guys - Stay healthy

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This is what I know and use for alacrity:

 

Classes with 3% Alacrity buff (Gunnery/Arsenal/Combat/Carnage):

1.4s GCD: 663 Alacrity (7.15%)

1.3s GCD: 2,374 Alacrity (15.41%)

 

What is your target Alacrity percentage that you're achieving with 647?

 

647 with 3% static buff is giving me 7.05%, not the 7.15% required for 1.4s GCD.

Edited by mike_carton
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Sidenote: Berserc is wierd. Its 6 stacks of 30% alacrity, that can snapshot abiltys on a lower cooldown.

There are abiltys as Furious Power or Ferocity that gain the lower cooldown from bersercs alacrity, without consuming a stack!

But there are also abiltys as Mad Dash, that doesnt gain anything from alacrity but consume a stack.

 

Mad Dash is considered an escape/mobility tool as much as a defensive cooldown, so unfortunately Bioware decided most of those can't be improved with alacrity. I'm guessing that it consumes a stack because it does damage in addition to the other effects.

 

Furious Power and Ferocity are offensive cooldowns that don't do damage directly, so it makes sense that they would not consume a stack.

 

This is what I know and use for alacrity:

 

Classes with 3% Alacrity buff (Gunnery/Arsenal/Combat/Carnage):

1.4s GCD: 663 Alacrity (7.15%)

1.3s GCD: 2,374 Alacrity (15.41%)

 

What is your target Alacrity percentage that you're achieving with 647?

 

647 with 3% static buff is giving me 7.05%, not the 7.15% required for 1.4s GCD.

 

Even with a set that has a 2-piece 2% alacrity rating boost that still wouldn't be enough (need 650 or 651), so I too am confused about the recommendation to only use 647.

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