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In favor of ability pruning


TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.03.2021 , 11:01 AM | #161
Quote: Originally Posted by RainEbon View Post

(this is a joke post, don't take it too seriously and lose your mind)

Honestly, the more I read the replies in this thread the more I think how toxic you people you are.

People share their views and opinions of the upcoming changes and you dare disagree with them, even going so far as to point out how wrong they are. Jesus!

Where do you get off?

Since I'm a subscriber that gives me the right to play the game any way I want and that won't change unless you pay the subscription for me. Why even care about others and what they do in group content in a MMO of all places (are they even subscribers?)

As for the changes...I for one approve of them.

I do not have the time, months or even years to learn a single rotation for a class. And what do I even get from learning it? A boring experience of pressing 12 buttons again and again.
I need something engaging, something new and fresh that's going to pull me in! Like pressing 3 buttons again and again.

My hope is that one day BioWare ends up getting rid of all those cheaters that are killing me in PvP. (No I'm not bad and I don't need to set aside 10 minutes to read a guide. I never died playing the story content so It's obvious that I know what I'm doing)

And one last thing I want to add that will prove that the ability bloat is a thing and that BioWare needs to modernize their game.
Is that during FPs I have to use things like interrupts and DCDs (like what the hell are those?). Being able to just hit the boss and watch him die should be enough. (Here's to hoping they end up adding the ability to challenge Malgus to a drift race because that would be so cool and new)

At the end of the day BioWare going in this direction is a good thing, hot bar/tab targeting MMOs are so 50BC. And we are going to the future people, whether you like it or not.
The scary thing is it’s nearly the same argument being waged by those being serious and wanting the game dumbed down. It’s also the sort of post Bioware might partly read to justify their changes.
Could I suggest you move the red part to the top like I did so BioWare realise it’s satire and not serious.

Brainbottle's Avatar


Brainbottle
08.03.2021 , 11:05 AM | #162
Quote: Originally Posted by Kass View Post
It is the threshold of being functionally proficient in your group role - that is the objective bare minimum - if you can not learn (any game) SWTOR to meet a functionally proficient threshold for group content, or refuse to do so - then by definition, you are not meeting the bare minimum.

And as a consequence the wise recommendation that this may not be the right game for you to invest a lot of your time in, to be frustrated by a combat mechanic that demands greater discipline to learning it than Fortnite.



#insearchof7800707
Look, if I'm getting heart surgery, I want the surgeon to have "the bare minimum training" to be proficient in his role. That is a context where it's amply justified to have extremely high minimum standards, and not lower them to pander to random, un-invested dilettantes who wouldn't take doing heart surgery seriously enough.

But nobody goes to a hospital for FUN, either. Hospitals don't ask random patients what they can do to attract "more casual doctors". Surgeons don't mock people who don't have a doctorate, like the very fact that it's the "minimum" requirement for their job makes those people utterly worthless scum.

Well wait, I take that back. Maybe some surgeons do that. But they're jerks.

Swtor is a "massively" multiplayer online game. BioWare has a financial incentive to keep it that way. The developers already decided to lower the skill floor to attract more casual players, before I joined this forum to check out how "Combat Styles" was progressing and heard about it.

If you had ever asked for my sympathy that the game you've spent time and effort to learn is going to change, maybe I could have shown you some: but it's hard to be sympathetic when you're belittling the difficulty of learning the game, when that is the very same investment you are clearly butt-hurt about being eroded.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.03.2021 , 11:11 AM | #163
Guys at this point I feel we are just getting trolled. Might I suggest we stop the feeding.

Kass's Avatar


Kass
08.03.2021 , 11:46 AM | #164
Quote: Originally Posted by Brainbottle View Post
Look, if I'm getting heart surgery, I want the surgeon to have "the bare minimum training" to be proficient in his role. That is a context where it's amply justified to have extremely high minimum standards, and not lower them to pander to random, un-invested dilettantes who wouldn't take doing heart surgery seriously enough.

But nobody goes to a hospital for FUN, either. Hospitals don't ask random patients what they can do to attract "more casual doctors". Surgeons don't mock people who don't have a doctorate, like the very fact that it's the "minimum" requirement for their job makes those people utterly worthless scum.

Well wait, I take that back. Maybe some surgeons do that. But they're jerks.

Swtor is a "massively" multiplayer online game. BioWare has a financial incentive to keep it that way. The developers already decided to lower the skill floor to attract more casual players, before I joined this forum to check out how "Combat Styles" was progressing and heard about it.

If you had ever asked for my sympathy that the game you've spent time and effort to learn is going to change, maybe I could have shown you some: but it's hard to be sympathetic when you're belittling the difficulty of learning the game, when that is the very same investment you are clearly butt-hurt about being eroded.
Asking for a definition, that you probably didn't expect an answer to, and then playing semantics with the answer.

[/SNIP]Self Edit of Belittling Comment by HK-Troll Droid[SNIP/]

So using your analogy, lets really drill down on this:

A Heart Surgeon working at a respectable Hospital/Surgery Center who knows what they're doing, suddenly and inexplicably has a non-surgeon burst into the operating room and begin telling the real Surgeon that everything they are doing is wrong... that they need fewer incisions and a simple arterial stint is just not enough - where did you get your medical license? A Cracker-Jack Box??!! - What you need is a FULL HEART TRANSPLANT!

This is the analogy of what you are attempting to do in this Thread. And you insist on ignoring, challenging, and bickering with anyone that tries to tell you that your wrong.

If your mindset is already made up that you are right no matter what, then please tell us how we all need a full heart transplant for SWTOR because "too many buttons".

Its just good manners to respect the gaming culture and community you're joining - When in Rome...

Otherwise, I'm sure there's an Escape Pod that will be available should you ever need it.

#insearchof7800707
Kass'yan
KTD - Republic Commando - "We're coming... and we're bringing Guns..."
"All Mods have been alerted to your presence, sir!" *
S0-B1 aw350m3n355 @ b31ng a Tr011 ha5 b33n c0mpr0m15ed. Mu5t f1nd 3as13r markz

Kass's Avatar


Kass
08.03.2021 , 11:59 AM | #165
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Guys at this point I feel we are just getting trolled. Might I suggest we stop the feeding.
I resemble that remark ---

Personally I'm entertained, but this thread does really need to get back on track.
Kass'yan
KTD - Republic Commando - "We're coming... and we're bringing Guns..."
"All Mods have been alerted to your presence, sir!" *
S0-B1 aw350m3n355 @ b31ng a Tr011 ha5 b33n c0mpr0m15ed. Mu5t f1nd 3as13r markz

Soljin's Avatar


Soljin
08.03.2021 , 02:43 PM | #166
I'm not fully against ability pruning TBH. What I am concerned about is the potential to make combat so simple it becomes boring.

On the other hand anything outside of PvP is already boring because there is almost no threat of death in PvE unless you are drastically under geared...

One bonus I see with people having to choose certain abilities and defensives is that you could start to see AC(s) countering themselves by way of ability choices which would add more complexity to team building and dueling etc...

I think Bioware's currently vague Expansion feature description doesn't help peoples concerns but I think there is a chance this could work out... My faith is a bit weak but BW could still surprise us.
I want my SWG...
Server: Satele Shan
Now, we must all fear evil. But there is a specific kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good people.

Brainbottle's Avatar


Brainbottle
08.03.2021 , 02:54 PM | #167
Quote: Originally Posted by Kass View Post
A Heart Surgeon working at a respectable Hospital/Surgery Center who knows what they're doing, suddenly and inexplicably has a non-surgeon burst into the operating room and begin telling the real Surgeon that everything they are doing is wrong... that they need fewer incisions and a simple arterial stint is just not enough - where did you get your medical license? A Cracker-Jack Box??!! - What you need is a FULL HEART TRANSPLANT!

This is the analogy of what you are attempting to do in this Thread. And you insist on ignoring, challenging, and bickering with anyone that tries to tell you that your wrong.
I suppose you imagine yourself to be the heart surgeon in this analogy, right? But where do the developers fit in? You know, the actual employees of the "institution" we are discussing, who are officially authorized and empowered by upper management with the delicate "surgical procedure" of updating the game code?

Surely they are the doctors in this analogy. And I'm not bitterly complaining they're a bunch of morons, you are.

Now there are a million reasons an MMO isn't a hospital, so this isn't a great analogy. But considering that it started as your analogy, there's only so much I can do to repair it's flaws.

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
08.03.2021 , 03:39 PM | #168
Quote: Originally Posted by Soljin View Post
I'm not fully against ability pruning TBH. What I am concerned about is the potential to make combat so simple it becomes boring.

On the other hand anything outside of PvP is already boring because there is almost no threat of death in PvE unless you are drastically under geared...
Therein lies the issue. Remove enough dcd and utility abilities that PvE becomes challenging again, at the expense of less interesting combat that is reduced down to - who does the most damage. Unless the devs find a way to introduce challenge to the game outside of flat out increasing the damage your character takes (and or nerfing companions), there will be less abilities, utilities and combat will be boring.
Jack of all classes, master of some. Always remember that cake is a lie.

Kass's Avatar


Kass
08.03.2021 , 04:11 PM | #169
Quote: Originally Posted by Brainbottle View Post
I suppose you imagine yourself to be the heart surgeon in this analogy, right? But where do the developers fit in? You know, the actual employees of the "institution" we are discussing, who are officially authorized and empowered by upper management with the delicate "surgical procedure" of updating the game code?

Surely they are the doctors in this analogy. And I'm not bitterly complaining they're a bunch of morons, you are.

Now there are a million reasons an MMO isn't a hospital, so this isn't a great analogy. But considering that it started as your analogy, there's only so much I can do to repair it's flaws.
Please feel free to disagree with my sentiments about the Developers in this thread:

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=995996

Otherwise, you've completely missed the point. The analogy wasn't crafted to encompass the Developers themselves, but development of SWTOR as experienced by the players that know it best, opposed to very new players that think a 10 year old game should now be re-engineered to badly imitate #fornite. But those veteran players that have mastered playing the mechanics as built and designed, are instead better suited to provide cogent points for the purposes of providing 'sentiment feedback' to the Community Relations Team to then forward to the Development Team.

Incredulity seems to be the flavor of these responses no matter what points or experienced responses are provided. And I can't help but notice you haven't garnered a single supporting post to your positions and arguments - not even a tangental reference of support. Only the title of the thread bares any relation to your "too many buttons"... and that's a generous stretch.

I'd add more, but the Community Team seems to get an increase in Report submissions whenever I [/SNIP] Restraining Bolt Engaged [SNIP\]



#insearchof7800707
Kass'yan
KTD - Republic Commando - "We're coming... and we're bringing Guns..."
"All Mods have been alerted to your presence, sir!" *
S0-B1 aw350m3n355 @ b31ng a Tr011 ha5 b33n c0mpr0m15ed. Mu5t f1nd 3as13r markz

Soljin's Avatar


Soljin
08.03.2021 , 04:22 PM | #170
Quote: Originally Posted by LordCamTheGreat View Post
Therein lies the issue. Remove enough dcd and utility abilities that PvE becomes challenging again, at the expense of less interesting combat that is reduced down to - who does the most damage. Unless the devs find a way to introduce challenge to the game outside of flat out increasing the damage your character takes (and or nerfing companions), there will be less abilities, utilities and combat will be boring.
I think the fight turn over will be much faster... Given the limited DCD use healers become much more important in long duration team fights and things like Stealth become much more important and potentially dominant in 1v1 situations.

If everyone loses DCD(s) equally it just increases TTK and forces people to engage more carefully outside of the DCD windows not having the ability to constantly rotate DCD(s).

Removal of DCD(s) could make guard more valuable in PvP and PvE as well I suppose... just a thought.

I like the idea that one Mara/Merc/Jugg can set them self apart from other Mara/Merc/Jugg(s) by way of build/gear/ability choices...That is cool. Ability choices done properly could reintroduce "play styles" to SWToR. The danger is making the options to few and thus making combat lame...

Might be kinda cool to specialize your Mara/Sent in stealth and damage a "stick and move" build w/ no real damage reduction CD while others could focus on a more in your face build choosing more damage reduction skills/passives over stealth/Camo...that part I like as long as the choices are plentiful...
I want my SWG...
Server: Satele Shan
Now, we must all fear evil. But there is a specific kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good people.