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Are the collections prices intended or a bug?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Bug Reports
Are the collections prices intended or a bug?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Andryah's Avatar

06.19.2014 , 10:01 AM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I want to add some clarity around what was wrong, what is intended, and what is being changed. First off, the what is wrong. There was a little confusion around things when we last talked about this issue. It appears that the current rarities in the pack are correct, however, the tooltips and rarity icons for those items are not.
Sorry but that makes zero sense when looked at objectively. Let's take the Nimble set as an example:

The Nimble lower box and contents are dropping at much higher rates then the upper and supplementary boxes and contents. Currently, the set is all marked as "rare" (gray icon). The drop rates for the sets in this pack very much appear to have abnormally disproportionate drop rates. I get that not all pieces within a set drop exactly the same in terms of % chance, but the disproportion in the current pack is way way worse then any prior packs. And the other sets are working pretty much the same in terms of disproportionate drop rates.

[note: what we absolutely DO NOT NEED is more boots and pants dropping at absurdly high rates. The game is literally flooded with them now. So.. if doing disproportionate drop rates.... how about mix it up some.]

What you just stated was that everything in the drop rates is working as intended.... but that some tool-tips and icons are incorrect. SO...... you just in effect stated that you will now mix rarities in drops in widely disproportionate drop rates and will simply change the tooltips and rarity icons (which frankly are a poor indicator of rarity to begin with).

That sounds to me like you have a huge pothole here and you are trying to fill it with sand. In other words, the problem created here is so bad, there is no easy way to fix it.... so you are just going to double down on the issues and declare them working as intended.

IF...IF both the absurd differences in drop rates for a given armor set, and the much higher unlock prices are indeed by intention...... I believe you have done some very nasty things to the player economy here. Time will tell I guess.... but honestly.... this was a bad move on the part of Bioware (intended or not).

I get that it is normal and expected to see new "experiments" in content to see how it is received by players. I'm fine with that, for the most part... as we can simply choose to disregard and not participate on that content. BUT.... as community manager, surely you understand that when making changes like this intentionally, and not giving the player base any insight that you did it, what you did and why.... you destroy player trust. Why do we have to open multiple bug report threads to find out you did this intentionally???????
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

Voemel's Avatar

06.19.2014 , 10:01 AM | #102

Eric, can you please explain the logic that was behind this change? And more importantly, why was the change not communicated to the community prior to implementation?

Also, you state that the devs have heard our feedback around both the rarities and the collections pricing and will adjust accordingly in future packs. What is the adjustment? Will it be reversed to its past levels? Or adjusted in other ways? Communicating these changes to your customer is extremely important. I will find it difficult to purchase Cartel Packs in the future if there are questions regarding drop rates, rarities, and Legacy Unlock pricing.

I am befuddled as to why Bioware would think this would be the right time to make changes to an established system and not communicate it to the customer. I would think efforts to retain customers would be paramount at this time, given competition and lack of new content within SWTOR. Please don't give the remaining players further reasons to leave.

Eric, your input would be much appreciated.

idnewton's Avatar

06.19.2014 , 10:08 AM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Our current target is to get those adjusted in Game Update 2.8.1, it should be noted that the Star Cluster pack also becomes embargoed in that same update.
Everything is working as we planned. We might be mysteriously removing the pack from the Cartel Market next patch but that's okay!


One of these days, maybe you'll catch onto the fact that no one believes your BS. We put up with this game because it's Star Wars. That's it. Your decisions suck, your management sucks, your bugtest team doesn't even exist, your QA team doesn't even exist, your PvP team is incompetent and you lie on a regular basis about pretty much everything.

You're lucky this game is Star Wars, or you'd have failed years ago.
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
Negative language gets you disqualified? Oh I'm sorry, please wait while I contact your local 'safe space'

Tearsscream's Avatar

06.19.2014 , 10:11 AM | #104
I am very disappointed in this announcement. Especially announced at the same time as an embargo. In my opinion, this has been one of the best packs in quite some time, even with terrible drop rates.

It would be good to hear more details from the devs on this matter. It seems like there is something mission from what we are being told. That may very well be false, but the one it is being approached has the air of a coverup.

I am by no means expecting the sky to fall or rage cancel my sub, but I am very disappointed and had decided not to buy the cartel coins to get a hypercrate until I heard more about the drop rates. Now that I have heard this, I will certainly not be purchasing one.
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thuard's Avatar

06.19.2014 , 10:12 AM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

TLDR Rarities and collection costs are right. Item rarity icons and collections tooltip rarity are not and are targeted to be fixed in 2.8.1.
Just to clarify things you guys are intending to implement different drop rates for different parts of the same armor set? In this case, as mentioned before, this means a hell lot of Nimble Brawler boots and pants and maybe one or two helmet and chest pieces?

Could you also please clarify the unlock pricing of the sets in the collection? I do understand that you want to make some things more expensive then others, but could you at least add some sort of indicator to the collection so that one could see the amount of cartel coins needed to unlock the specific set in the collection before you own this set?

IMHO this was a very poor design decision to implement this change in a very quiet way. I planned to unlock some of the new armors for all of my characters but with the raised cost I will think twice which armor I plan to unlock, as the raised price is somewhere in the order of five to six times the old price.

oofalong's Avatar

06.19.2014 , 10:15 AM | #106
I have been a big supporter of the cartel market since its launch, but the shenanigans here are upsetting. The changes implemented for this pack were folly, and unfortunately Tait's and Eric's efforts to explain/rationalize them have made the matter worse.

Others in this thread have expressed the multitude of issues with this pack as well as I could, but I still wanted to add my $0.02 as I actually spend a lot more than that on Cartel coins.
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
You are correct Oofalong.

Darth_Wicked's Avatar

06.19.2014 , 10:20 AM | #107
I'm not going to say: I told you so but yeahhhh...

I told you so. Figures.

ninjonxb's Avatar

06.19.2014 , 10:21 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by idnewton View Post
Everything is working as we planned. We might be mysteriously removing the pack from the Cartel Market next patch but that's okay!.
Well something about this shipment has always been weird.
Like the fact that instead of there being 4 packs listed in collections there was only 2.
There was no smaller pack.

Honestly I am leaning towards this being the plan originally and this smaller shipment being a bit of an experiment.

Andryah's Avatar

06.19.2014 , 10:24 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by ninjonxb View Post
Honestly I am leaning towards this being the plan originally and this smaller shipment being a bit of an experiment.
Could very well be. But jumping out from behind a rock with the admission that it is by design, with zero communications until today that it is "working as intended, and how it works" is not acceptable IMO.

It is their game, so they can produce it anyway they like.... but there are always consequences to changes...particularly secret changes inside an MMO.

For many things.. I get that we are not entitled to the details... but when they make a fundamental shift in their pack content rarity and collections prices........players deserve disclosure in the patch notes.. not after multiple bug reports and threads since 2.8 went live. This is not going to be received well by any players I don't think. Not the end of the world by any means...but still... they stepped in it on this one IMO.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

ninjonxb's Avatar

06.19.2014 , 10:27 AM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Could very well be. But jumping out from behind a rock with the admission that it is by design, with zero communications until today that it is "working as intended, and how it works" is not acceptable IMO.
This is true and its hard to deny that there wasn't a communication issue.
2 days ago hearing from tait and then today finally hearing from Musco with clarification is a bit weird and I will admit fishy.

I think Bioware should experiment with the cartel market and get feedback but I also think that they should be a little more open about it.
The collections issue I think is something that they don't really need to justify but thats just me.

However on the note of items like this. I am pretty sure that this has been the same thing since the cartel market came out.

The Head piece and chest were always the rarer pieces and the other ones were harder to come by. With some exceptions. Just look at Reven

I think a lot of this boils down to the same thing we have seen several times on the forum.
They mention something (one of the reasons we don't see much on friday anymore) big or potentially very bad and then just go completely silent.
The issue boils up until people on the forum stop looking at facts and assume that something is true when it may very well not be.
Then Bioware comes in a few days later with a response that seems to some to be a knee jerk reaction with BS instead of being true (which it all could very well be).

It is a bit of a double edged sword because at least we get feedback from Bioware but I also realize that they can't possibly respond to everything.