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Conquest Overhaul


Decalin

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So while I wait for PTS to download, this has been something I have been meaning to get round to for a while.

 

The conquest system has changed a fair bit since it was implemented, and IMO it has generally been for the better and left us in a good place as we stand right now. That said though, there are still improvements which could be made, and during the recent point balance discussion there were some good ideas that came up which were outside of the scope of that work, I thought it would be worth starting some discussion on what we would still like to see changed.

 

 

Multiple Alt's vs Single Character Participation

 

One of the ideas which I like, was in regards to players who like to concentrate on one character instead of multiple alts; the idea was to allow the conquest to essentially be repeatable and ding the reward every 50k points, keeping a tally for the end of the week where you would receive the reward x the number of completions that character had made.

 

This would fit well into the "Play Your Way" theme, and would not really change anything for those who prefer to play alt's, as that would still be the most efficient method of playing due to the ability to complete various weekly quests on a different alt each day, but only once if you focused on one character.

 

IMO this is the best kind of change, it takes nothing away from anyone, but opens things up to alternate play styles, even if not quite to the same level, it at least makes it viable!

 

 

Planetary Conquest Top 10

 

This was something which many people had raised as an issue, and there is a thread currently running in General regarding the issue on DM right now, which is that a few Guild's with multiple sister guilds who own the top 10 every week, essentially making it a non-existent feature for most of the player base.

 

Some suggestions regarding this;

  • Remove the top 10 and add Gold/Silver/Bronze participation targets for per planet.
    • Titles could be awarded on achieving the Gold tire of participation.
      • Potentially Imp vs Rep could also be used; title's would require your side to win + your guild achieving gold tier.
      • The winning side could also be given a bonus, something along the lines of the current dark vs light tokens.

    [*]Open all planets each conquest (Other than ones tied to the weekly theme).

    [*]Increase guild size to let the conquest guilds run with a single guild.

 

Decoupling the top 10 from the titles should also eliminate the issue some people have regarding the repeatable crafting objective and the potential for botting, as it would no longer have any impact outside of any guild which may have been using bots.

 

Obviously it would not make botting acceptable, but BW could then handle any botting as they saw fit via account actions, rather than removing the crafting objective which would penalise legitimate players unnecessarily.

 

So what else would people like to see?

Edited by Decalin
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  • Remove conquest points from the guild obtained by members who leave the guild.

)

 

That alone should fix the issue. The Invasion is much better than it used to be. The only reason people now have to fight for the #1 spot is if they want to force others to play the way THEY want. Some of us want to play in a small guild, others prefer big guilds, others prefer to solo and use Allies for group activities. Let's not get into this mentality of 1 guild controlling and deciding for everyone else where they can invade and when. If you are after a title controlled by a specific guild, put an alt in there and get it. No need for these so called changes that only has one motive driving it, and that is to control the community to force them to play their way. Have a look at last week for instance, where there were 2 large planets to invade. Did the #2 guild on SF invade the 2nd Large yield? Nope, they tried to flex their muscle and failed once again to unseat the #1 guild. They simply wont stop at anything and will keep demanding more and more. It really is not about changes and ideas to better the game and community, it is about a few bad actors that wont stop at anything until they are in that top spot, and after that - who knows. That wont satisfy them for long, so they will probably demand more changes until there is nothing left and everyone or most left. Remember what happened after the first big Conquest change? How many big guilds were simply disbanded because their GM's just left and had enough. There are so many ghost guilds left that will never recover. I don't think this game can go through that again. Since that catastrophe a lot of positive things happened, until these group of bad actors once again demanded a change. They spammed CS with tickets to remove an old recipe, they offered lies and made false statements to garner support for their cause. They got their way. A lot of old and loyal players were affected, but as a community we carried on.

What will the next demand be? When will they stop?

 

Leave Conquest alone!! It is in a good place as it is now. But let's protect our player base from these disgusting worms, and the best way the community suggested is to remove the Conquest points from the guild by members who leave the guild.

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Remove conquest points from the guild obtained by members who leave the guild.

 

That idea puts too much leverage in the hands of a few high-conquest players for a small guild just starting out.

 

Players in a nascent guild who've earned a few million points of conquest for the week can basically hold the guild hostage demanding officer rank/ bank access / whatever or they'll quit and take all those points away.

 

True, they could only do it once, and if the guild leader is smart will ban their happy *** so it doesn't happen again, but why make such leverage possible for things to get to that point?

Edited by xordevoreaux
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That idea puts too much leverage in the hands of a few high-conquest players for a small guild just starting out.

 

Players in a nascent guild who've earned a few million points of conquest for the week can basically hold the guild hostage demanding officer rank/ bank access / whatever or they'll quit and take all those points away.

 

True, they could only do it once, and if the guild leader is smart will ban their happy *** so it doesn't happen again, but why make such leverage possible for things to get to that point?

 

I can't really see that happening, chances are these people get the points because they are dedicated to the guild already, and are already officers, etc. But as we've seen before, people can be really nasty at times, so anything is possible. But I think it would worth taking a chance, as it might be a good start to stopping what seems to be happening at the moment.

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Can we just have a 12 month break from making anymore changes to conquest. It’s in a relatively good place at the moment and there are other priorities that need attention first,

 

Full agree...let us bask in the lovely light off our system as it is, and wait till 2021 is over, before we invite more disaster on to us ;)

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Can't say that I agree with this "It's in a good place, so let's not discuss potential improvement's" mentality.

 

Not discussing ideas wont stop changes being made to the system in the future, it will just guarantee that when they are made, they wont be ideas from the community.

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I can't really see that happening, chances are these people get the points because they are dedicated to the guild already, and are already officers, etc. But as we've seen before, people can be really nasty at times, so anything is possible. But I think it would worth taking a chance, as it might be a good start to stopping what seems to be happening at the moment.

Why not? Are you that innocent that you think blackmail won't happen in a game? There are people who join guilds to see if they can raid the guild bank. Why give these people more leverage?

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Can't say that I agree with this "It's in a good place, so let's not discuss potential improvement's" mentality.

 

Not discussing ideas wont stop changes being made to the system in the future, it will just guarantee that when they are made, they wont be ideas from the community.

 

More like we're all exhausted from the incessant back-and-forth mindless vitriol spouted over the course of the summer, and those involved in the ruckus know any lengthy discussion could very well trigger another internecine war, and we'd rather just let it go for a while.

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Can we just have a 12 month break from making anymore changes to conquest. It’s in a relatively good place at the moment and there are other priorities that need attention first,

 

RIGHT ON !!

 

We should start with some old fashion BUG squashing !!!

 

And .. (for whatever it's worth) ... IMO the conquest system is better now than it has been in the past. Don't tempt fate !! Let it alone !

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RIGHT ON !!

 

We should start with some old fashion BUG squashing !!!

 

And .. (for whatever it's worth) ... IMO the conquest system is better now than it has been in the past. Don't tempt fate !! Let it alone !

So there's a -

  • Bug fix budget
  • Freshen things up budget
  • New content budget
  • The coffee lad(y) budget

 

That last one is non-negotiable. So this sort of thing (making changes to existing content) is from the "freshen things up budget". So I don't think it's going to be spend on bug fixes... however they could fix a lot of other things in existing content to "freshen things up". In other words, I agree but I don't think you'll get bug fixes instead of it.

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Multiple Alt's vs Single Character Participation

 

One of the ideas which I like, was in regards to players who like to concentrate on one character instead of multiple alts; the idea was to allow the conquest to essentially be repeatable and ding the reward every 50k points, keeping a tally for the end of the week where you would receive the reward x the number of completions that character had made.

 

This would fit well into the "Play Your Way" theme, and would not really change anything for those who prefer to play alt's, as that would still be the most efficient method of playing due to the ability to complete various weekly quests on a different alt each day, but only once if you focused on one character.

 

IMO this is the best kind of change, it takes nothing away from anyone, but opens things up to alternate play styles, even if not quite to the same level, it at least makes it viable!

 

This isn't functionally any different than what we have now. So for example, I have 6 characters. Because Tech Fragments are Legacy bound currency, if I want to focus on gearing one of those characters first, I simply use the pooled Tech Fragment resource for that one character. When I get random set pieces from the Conquest box for each character completing the weekly Conquest, I chuck those into my Legacy bank. If one of those set pieces is something I'm interested in using for the character I'm focusing on, it goes to him. If I was able to repeat that effort on one character - do the weekly Conquest more than once - I'd still be getting the same amount of Tech Fragments as I would on each of my six characters, and I'd still be getting a random set piece.

 

The only benefit I see to your proposal is for players who only have one or two characters on their account, or, for players who have all the time in the world to play this game and can literally grind out weekly Conquest dozens or hundreds of times. I think it's a reasonably safe assumption that the overwhelming majority of players still here have more than one or two characters on their account, in some cases, players even have multiple accounts. And that most players do not have the free time outside of their real life responsibilities to grind Conquest ad nauseum. Obviously, there's exceptions to that.

 

To me, at least, it's a question of ROI (return on investment). Will the expenditure of time and resources by Bioware result in a net gain for the player base? I can't answer that question accurately from where I'm sitting, but I strongly suspect the answer is no.

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So there's a -

  • Bug fix budget
  • Freshen things up budget
  • New content budget
  • The coffee lad(y) budget

 

That last one is non-negotiable. So this sort of thing (making changes to existing content) is from the "freshen things up budget". So I don't think it's going to be spend on bug fixes... however they could fix a lot of other things in existing content to "freshen things up". In other words, I agree but I don't think you'll get bug fixes instead of it.

 

hmmm

[/reads over list ... scratches head]

 

[/walks off grumbling to self .... ]

 

ought to be a reason why they're wrong ... And if I ever think of it ...

 

[/grumbles to self some more]

 

They're probably right !!

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Can't say that I agree with this "It's in a good place, so let's not discuss potential improvement's" mentality.

 

Not discussing ideas wont stop changes being made to the system in the future, it will just guarantee that when they are made, they wont be ideas from the community.

 

If you have spent any time in the game, or here in the forums, you'd know the answer to that... but just in case, let me spell it out

 

They F**K it up when the mess with it, your ideas won't get implemented the way YOU think it should, they'll do it their way, and we will all curse it. Not that your ideas are any good any way... but that's a different post.

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Why not? Are you that innocent that you think blackmail won't happen in a game? There are people who join guilds to see if they can raid the guild bank. Why give these people more leverage?

 

For the reasons I stated, to start with, do you really think that anyone who gets enough CQ points to put a guild over the top, is really in such a weak position in the guild. No, they are probably the power house in the guild, and are either running it, or way up the food chain, and don't want more. The 1 person that might do it, as was said, will do it one, before they get a rude awaking. Not to mention, did you read the whole thing, or just the first line :rolleyes:

Edited by DarkTergon
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RIGHT ON !!

 

We should start with some old fashion BUG squashing !!!

 

And .. (for whatever it's worth) ... IMO the conquest system is better now than it has been in the past. Don't tempt fate !! Let it alone !

 

Yep, get the damn bugs squashed before fixing anything that’s not broken ;)

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Can we just have a 12 month break from making anymore changes to conquest. It’s in a relatively good place at the moment and there are other priorities that need attention first,

 

/agreed. We have had enough arguing about what each person thinks it is good and then another doesn't like it. Leave it alone for awhile please and just fix any bugs that are needed first before I go find some good bug spray and do it myself (:D)

Edited by casirabit
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/agreed. We have had enough arguing about what each person thinks it is good and then another doesn't like it. Leave it alone for awhile please and just fix any bugs that are needed first before I go find some good bug spray and do it myself (:D)

 

I know where you can get a good deal on some !!

 

:D:D:D

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For the reasons I stated, to start with, do you really think that anyone who gets enough CQ points to put a guild over the top, is really in such a weak position in the guild. No, they are probably the power house in the guild, and are either running it, or way up the food chain, and don't want more. The 1 person that might do it, as was said, will do it one, before they get a rude awaking. Not to mention, did you read the whole thing, or just the first line :rolleyes:

I realise now that I misunderstood your comment and you were answering a specific situation. So that's on me.

 

But you make a lot of assumptions nonetheless. I've seen situations where a new member outshines everybody else in conquest, particularly in smaller guilds. So no, they are not running the guild then, they're a new recruit.

 

And what is this rude awakening you speak of? Or are those just empty threats because it suits your narrative?

 

When someone generates a lot of conquest points, they can join a smaller guild, rack up the points and hold the guild hostage with their newly acquired power in the scenario when the points go away upon their leaving. It could be a very lucrative business model for some people. And we know there will be people that will do this, there are always people who do this.

 

It might just work only once per guild but there are plenty of small to medium guilds around.

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I

 

And what is this rude awakening you speak of?

 

It usually means they don't get what they want, it's not a threat, but a figure of speech. An idiom , like raining cats and dogs, or do you actually believe it rains cats & dogs?

In this case, apart from getting banned from the guild, , probably earning a bad name, any GM with an ounce on intelligence would also report them, as 'blackmail' is actually illegal , and I can't imagine anything illegal being not being against the ToS.

I can't imagine any guild leader allowing themselves to be held hostage by a CQ person. And as I said, it's worth a chance of a maybe, what if situation, if it stops the ninja inviting/booting crap that has been going on. Because that is ruining things far worse than any possible 'hostage/blackmail' situation

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I can't imagine

Well, I think that's where the assumptions come from. You can't imagine therefore it cannot be. But others can imagine these things happening and they do happen.

 

Lots of people can't imagine someone doing something and then when it does happen they are dumbfounded. A guild might be needing the flagship plans. They want to finish their FS and then one person could make the difference between making their conquest total or not. I can imagine that for example a new recruit surprises the guild with their contribution. So when this new person says, "oh I just do that without even thinking about it". So they might go for a bigger yield the next week. Well then the next week this person has that power and it creates an unfortunate situation. So it might be that this new recruit threatens to leave the guild unless they get x amount (whatever is in the guild bank for example).

 

So you see, there are ways to make this into a business. It may not work all the time but you can have many alts and you therefore can have multiple attempts with multiple guilds in the same week.

 

I therefore wouldn't rely on your, well, lack of imagination.

 

And there's a flip side to this as well. What if the person is kicked from a guild with all of their alts for ridiculous reasons. The guild wouldn't get their points but neither will they get the guild rewards for that week. So what about that then? I mean, it's a logical next question when you go down this road. Would you then say "too bad" to that person?

 

So all in all, there are many strings attached to what would seem simple changes. A complete overhaul would be needed rather than small changes I would think and I don't think that's in the cards for the next while. And some might say that's a good thing.

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I see there have been several threads about the Conquest issues and at the risk of repeating myself:

 

Regarding the scheme to farm Conquest points from newly acquired members and kicking them afterwards, I think the idea to deduct the Conquest points from the guild ledger is a very good idea. The mechanism to prevent sabotage and blackmailing from the other side should be to only deduct the points from the guild ledger if the member is kicked from the guild and not if the member left the guild him/herself.

 

This way the guild cannot farm Conquest points from unsuspecting members anymore and decoy members from another guild cannot take them hostage.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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I see there have been several threads about the Conquest issues and at the risk of repeating myself:

 

Regarding the scheme to farm Conquest points from newly acquired members and kicking them afterwards, I think the idea to deduct the Conquest points from the guild ledger is a very good idea. The mechanism to prevent sabotage and blackmailing from the other side should be to only deduct the points from the guild ledger if the member is kicked from the guild and not if the member left the guild him/herself.

 

This way the guild cannot farm Conquest points from unsuspecting members anymore and decoy members from another guild cannot take them hostage.

 

A very reasonable and logical solution that doesn’t negatively affect anyone else. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

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/snip

 

 

Again. 'I can't imagine', is an idiom, I'm sorry you find them too hard to understand. I will try not to use them again. But if you actually bothered reading the whole thing, you'd notice that. If you don't understand the idiom, and what it actually means, there's not a lot I can say. But you've ignored the part where "I've said if it happens, it can be stopped" (Paraphrased, not exactly, just in case you don't get that either), whether deliberately or not I don't know.

No Guild is going to let themselves be held hostage like that, it'd have to be a really dumb GL, who lets that slide by, and doesn't report it, etc.

 

Having the points removed if you kick a player, will stop what's happening, it's not a cure for bad leadership, or toxic people like this, I'm sure they'll come up with another way. But at the moment, there is no other solution.

I'm not a programmer, but I have done a bit in my youth. But I'm sure one will be able to let us know if it can be done easily enough.

 

As for people getting kicked from a guild for ridiculous reasons, why would that have any thing to do with this. At the moment, if someone gets kicked from the guild, they don't get the guild rewards at the end of the day now, so why would it matter if they brought in the new idea? If the GL is going to kick someone from the guild for 'ridiculous' reasons, then they deserve to lose the points.

 

But Phazonfreak solution is much simpler, and definitely better

Edited by DarkTergon
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