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Upcoming Guild Conquest Updates


DavidStaats

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There is now a guild on SF where you have to get 100k or get booted, I had toons who got the 50+, but not 100k, who got booted before reset on tuesday, so even though I got CQ, and should have got the rewards from the guild, they still got booted, and I ended up with nothing.

 

I fail to see your complaint here, the rules for the guild are clearly documented, and you chose to join the guild. A lot of people in this thread are saying "I intentionally got less conquest than the guild required and they kicked me for no reason". Uhh they kicked you for a reason, and the reason was not meeting their target. If you join a competitive conquest guild, sometimes they have requirements (e.g. 100k or 200k) and if you don't meet it, you get booted. The GM can't send a PM to every person who gets booted because they have lives too.

 

I know most of the guilds with these limits are happy to reinvite you if you so choose, and have alt guilds with no requirements if you want to be part of the community but don't want to make conquest each week. These alt guilds still get the large yield rewards each week, have fully upgraded flagships, etc.

Edited by Null_Reaper
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/snip.

No surprise there, you are probably one of the GM's who does this practice, so it's not surprising you defend it.

reinviting does no good if they have the same limits. It's a &*^% thing to do, kicking them after the reset, so they get the points, but when the person logs in they don't get the guild bonus. You can defend that all you like, but any decent person knows that is wrong.

 

If they brought in some of the ideas put forth, it would stop a lot of this bull.

Edited by DarkTergon
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No surprise there, you are probably one of the GM's who does this practice, so it's not surprising you defend it.

reinviting does no good if they have the same limits. It's a &*^% thing to do, kicking them after the reset, so they get the points, but when the person logs in they don't get the guild bonus. You can defend that all you like, but any decent person knows that is wrong.

 

If they brought in some of the ideas put forth, it would stop a lot of this bull.

 

If he kicks people that capped to keep them from getting the bonus, I agree.

 

If the guild rules are made clear prior to invite and state get 50k points or you're out and the person only gets 30k, I don't see a problem. Again I'm qualifying this with: assuming rules are made clear at time of invite and that they are cleared laid out somewhere. If it's a surprise later, its still a jerk move.

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No surprise there, you are probably one of the GM's who does this practice, so it's not surprising you defend it.

reinviting does no good if they have the same limits. It's a &*^% thing to do, kicking them after the reset, so they get the points, but when the person logs in they don't get the guild bonus. You can defend that all you like, but any decent person knows that is wrong.

 

If they brought in some of the ideas put forth, it would stop a lot of this bull.

 

I'm not a GM, but i'm in a guild that does this. The rules say you need 100k to stay in the guild each week. The guild doesn't do random invites, an officer discusses the rules (especially the 100k) with each member before they join. There are discord announcements reminding people of the 100k requirement. There are events to help people get the 100k.

 

If you get 50k, it sucks that you have to get kicked even though you qualified for the guild conquest reward. But what is the alternative? If a guild wants their members to help the guild remain competitive, people earning 50k aren't gonna cut it. I get 50k by logging in once for 30 seconds. If i login once a day for a minute, i can get 500k conquest a week. People aren't contributing to the guild at 50k (in terms of securing a conqueror title), they aren't making the guild feel active, they aren't helping the guild get the conqueror title, they are being carried to victory by other players, and doing the bare minimum.

 

With the new conquest changes from a couple months ago, 50k is extremely easy to get. Like i said, if you want to just make your 50k and you dont care about earning the conqueror titles, that is *fine*, just don't join the main guilds, join the alt guilds (or any other large yield guild). If you join one of the top conquest guilds on the server, ones actively trying to secure conqueror titles, you need to be competitive and do more then the minimum. People shouldn't expect otherwise. Why should people get rewarded with a title when they didn't put in the work to earn it?

Edited by Null_Reaper
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I admit I'm nowhere near the member cap so its not a problem, but personally I get close to 50k and swap toons because 100k doesn't get me anything more.

 

This is why I also think having 200k objectives is sort of silly, personally. Whats the point getting 200k on one character when I have 39 others I could get 50k on and then they all get rewards.

 

Note to BW: that second paragraph does NOT mean I want cq nerfed. I merely question why not add more 50k ish ones rsther than having a half dozen or so 100k ones. Your design decisions are beyond me; nevertheless, cq is in a decent place so please leave it alone.

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The guild doesn't do random invites, an officer discusses the rules (especially the 100k) with each member before they join.

 

If you get 50k, it sucks that you have to get kicked even though you qualified for the guild conquest reward.

 

So, your guild specifically discusses this, good on them. Many such guilds do not, and wither the requirement was discussed or not is still a secondary concern for players that contribute, yet get jacked on rewards and whatnot for the efforts they did contribute.

 

Which is why the weekly guild reward system needs to be changed to properly grant both the yield reward as well as any associated achievements /titles /etc that they did contribute to achieving regardless of that characters guild status when they next log in.

 

Players 'abusing' other players is a social issue, one that depends on too many variables to quantify either way.

My own views on players supporting 'bad' social structures by continued presence and participation is very clear on that - words only get you so far, and if resolutions are not forthcoming, leave!

 

Players being left open to abuse by the system on top of that is just bad design and worse game management when they refuse to fix it.

 

In the spirit of resolution, an example of what could be done:

 

 

  • A convenience /QoL change is needed that would allow a guild to pre-set their invasion target for the following week so that the guild would not have to wait for 'management' to log in and set it.
    - this is especially useful for smaller /casual guilds where an invasion target (and its relevant +15% CQP) might not get set until later in the day, or even days later, depending on RL constraints.
    - If 'management' chooses not use the system, that is on them
    - This might not be 'necessary' by some, but it would go a long way to mitigating other issues and sets the stage for the rest:
     
  • Every CQ invasion grants a specific buff that is a unique combination for that week, that guild, and their invasion target (visible or invisible to the player, but one that can not be removed either way). The buff has Two states: Negative (has/did not meet yield goal) and Positive (guild yield goal was met). This is maintained at the system level and does not require guilded characters to be logged in to change or maintain the state.
     
     
  • Each character also get a similar buff that reflects N/P for that characters personal goal.
     
     
  • Once that weeks CQ is ended, and regardless of that characters guild status when next it is logged in, If buff A (guild) is positive, and buff B (character) is also a positive - that character is granted the relevant rewards and whatnot. Both buffs are 'consumed' on claiming the guild reward - or, if one was still negative after the date, they both get 'cleansed' by the system with no further action.
     
     
  • Out of necessity, the buffs would have to have a shelf life, a compromise between 'fair' and whatever technical practicalities exist would suggest 14 days.

 

Alternatives could be a modification to the quest tracking system and do it all there instead of a buff system, a reward system that involves mailing rewards and a consumable for the achievements, and several others.

Again, just examples of what could be done to actually fix it.

 

 

Edited by Kaveat
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an officer discusses the rules (especially the 100k) with each member before they join.

 

 

If it's the guild I was in, this is FALSE, non of their advertising says anything about a 100k limit, or that they get kicked after 7 days of afk. The advertise as friendly, etc, etc, But that's not a friendly tactic.

 

 

If you get 50k, it sucks that you have to get kicked even though you qualified for the guild conquest reward. But what is the alternative?

 

 

Not kicking someone who got their 50k, before they can even get their guild rewards would do for a start.

 

 

With the new conquest changes from a couple months ago, 50k is extremely easy to get. Like i said, if you want to just make your 50k and you dont care about earning the conqueror titles, that is *fine*, just don't join the main guilds, join the alt guilds (or any other large yield guild). If you join one of the top conquest guilds on the server, ones actively trying to secure conqueror titles, you need to be competitive and do more then the minimum. People shouldn't expect otherwise. Why should people get rewarded with a title when they didn't put in the work to earn it?

 

Good for you, you and your one guild and one too can do so brilliantly....except, in the real world most people have multiple guilds, which all need help, and have issue with time, etc, so they have to choose carefully.

And because the titles, which is what a lot of us do this for, are being held 'hostage' by certain guilds, people have no choice to join those guilds. Which means they can demand what they want, blackmail people in to getting it.

Which is why I hope they open up the titles, to break that power hold.

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Good for you, you and your one guild and one too can do so brilliantly....except, in the real world most people have multiple guilds, which all need help, and have issue with time, etc, so they have to choose carefully.

 

Really? You have multiple guilds in the real world? Wow.

Maybe that right there, is the problem? :)

Edited by Tionese
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Really? You have multiple guilds in the real world? Wow.

Maybe that right there, is the problem? :)

 

there's fantasy, real world in game and rl, I assume people are intelligent enough to know which I'm talking about, my bad, I really shouldn't assume things like that :rolleyes:

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Whats the point getting 200k on one character when I have 39 others I could get 50k on and then they all get rewards.

 

 

 

Absolutely correct, I would rather make 50K on I think my personal record for a week is 28 toons making conquests than do like 5 million on one toon. I like toon hopping, I like having alts. I have just personally reached the point with conquests where I do not care anymore how the guild ranks on the leader board as long as they make the weekly goal they set. There are only 2 or 3 guilds on the server that can win the planet and one goes large yield another goes medium and the other goes small yield, so since 99.99999999% of guilds have no chance to win a planet I am personally just going with a guild with people I like that makes their weekly goal. Just tired of guilds dictating to me how I am going to spend my time playing a game. If I want to spend all week standing in front of a gtn and make no points I want to be able to do that and have nobody in the guild care at all.

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I'm not a GM, but i'm in a guild that does this. The rules say you need 100k to stay in the guild each week. The guild doesn't do random invites, an officer discusses the rules (especially the 100k) with each member before they join. There are discord announcements reminding people of the 100k requirement. There are events to help people get the 100k.

 

If you get 50k, it sucks that you have to get kicked even though you qualified for the guild conquest reward. But what is the alternative? If a guild wants their members to help the guild remain competitive, people earning 50k aren't gonna cut it. I get 50k by logging in once for 30 seconds. If i login once a day for a minute, i can get 500k conquest a week. People aren't contributing to the guild at 50k (in terms of securing a conqueror title), they aren't making the guild feel active, they aren't helping the guild get the conqueror title, they are being carried to victory by other players, and doing the bare minimum.

 

With the new conquest changes from a couple months ago, 50k is extremely easy to get. Like i said, if you want to just make your 50k and you dont care about earning the conqueror titles, that is *fine*, just don't join the main guilds, join the alt guilds (or any other large yield guild). If you join one of the top conquest guilds on the server, ones actively trying to secure conqueror titles, you need to be competitive and do more then the minimum. People shouldn't expect otherwise. Why should people get rewarded with a title when they didn't put in the work to earn it?

 

 

One way to make the kicking less abusive would be if Bioware still rewarded the kicked players that made the target, with the weekly rewards (less the conquer title). Because it’s really not fair that someone makes the target required by Bioware (not the guild) and are then denied it because they are kicked for not reaching the internal guild target.

 

The other option is Bioware increase the personal character targets for large yield to 100k. But I think all that would happen is guilds would then say you need to have 200k. Plus it would also penalise smaller guilds or people with lots of Alts who want to go for the large yield target, but aren’t interested in winning conquest. Which lets face it, there are probably only 10-20 guilds per server who are and only 1-3 who realistically have a chance. So a change like this would negatively affect more players than it would positively affect a few.

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This really doesn't affect our guild at all. And we have a very large guild. We do recruit from the fleet and on planets in chat so people whisper us for a invite. This mass invite mass kick just doesn't happen.

 

For us we have a purge "day" where anyone that doesn't meet our log in requirements (g activity) or cq point objective targets get all removed on that day.

 

Being in a guild where all 1000 spots are filled the potential for not meeting our requirements are higher for more people. You can see how people may misconstrue the kicks for mass invite mass deletion. However thats just not the case and isn't true. Anyone that was kicked due to inactivity for low sq points can request a reinvite from our chat platform app and we welcome everyone back that was inactive.

 

That being the case our guilds cq points for the weeks won't really change at all nor reflect a decrease in points since we don't use this method to booster our points. Being we don't think its ethically right to invite and then kick people.

 

Thats being the case I can see how this will affect honest players who were kicked for inactivity, wanted to change guilds, or created a new character. Now they have to wait 2 weeks for g rewards because of a rule change. TBH this hurts the normal subscription players that love the game more than top conquest guilds since they just don't use this method.

 

Its too bad swtor isn't improving the players quality of life but now degrading it.

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These changes seem reasonable to me. But I'd make one edit. During the grace period, a character who is in a guild that conquers a planet should get credit for that conquest in the achievements.

 

If you don't do this, everyone chasing achievements is going to move their alts into the biggest guilds, in order to capture the achievements. It will make the largest guilds even more attractive at the expense of everyone else. So making the change without the above edit will, in the long run, hurt all but top 3-4 guilds.

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These changes seem reasonable to me. But I'd make one edit. During the grace period, a character who is in a guild that conquers a planet should get credit for that conquest in the achievements.

 

If you don't do this, everyone chasing achievements is going to move their alts into the biggest guilds, in order to capture the achievements. It will make the largest guilds even more attractive at the expense of everyone else. So making the change without the above edit will, in the long run, hurt all but top 3-4 guilds.

 

which is why the achievement/title needs to be opened up. Personally I like the idea of the top ten getting it, as it gives people more choice, and they can be in the top guilds without resorting to being stuck in those guilds that abuse the invite/kick system, or demand OTT CQ points. I know it doesn't help the smaller guilds, but it's a start, and we've seen some other good ideas too.

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I accepted a random guild invite from a conquest guild on a Wednesday. I asked in guild chat how can I become a permanent member and an officer replied if I earned 100K conquest points, I would be safe. I agreed. I hit 100K plus by Thursday and took Friday off. Saturday, I was no longer in the guild. I whispered a familiar name I did some heroics with and they told me I was removed Thursday night by the guild leader, along with dozens of other people. Sunday, my leveling friend whispered me that they had been removed from that guild overnight.

I remained guildless, declining another street sweeper invite from that guild on Monday. Tuesday, I did not receive any guild reward. It isn’t much but I did earn 100K plus for a guild in 2 days but didn’t get a weekly reward.

These changes look like they would address that abusive behavior. The changes look to foster longer tenure in a positive guild environment. Two days in a “kick, re invite” guild was not a good experience.

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These changes look like they would address that abusive behavior.

All they are doing is prolonging the experience without taking any affirmative action. The changes are window dressing that neither address nor correct a darn thing.

 

Changes hit, repeat experience, but now it is over the course of 2 weeks instead of just one, and you are still jacked out of your guild CQ weekly yield reward, but now twice because you could not contribute or gain rewards the first week.

 

"OH! but now they loose your points and will stop doing that!" - if you truly believe that this will in any way change their attitudes or how they conduct their guilds, or do CQ, I have a bridge to sell you...

All they are going to do is shift gears and find another way that gets them what they want and still allows them the be just as petty and abusive in the process.

 

The changes look to foster longer tenure in a positive guild environment.

Such guilds already exist, just not there. Nor will it ever be 'there'.

 

If you are serious about looking for a 'positive environment' guild that suites your wants /needs, and instead of using general chat, try the community guild finder, or one of the community discords. Look for the ones that put the extra time and effort into their recruitment (proper text formatting and line breaks, decent and appropriate wording, etc) rather than just spamming public chats day in and day out. Not saying there are not still bad apples in those communities, because they still exist even in those venues, they are just fewer and further between (for now).

Edited by Kaveat
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All they are doing is prolonging the experience without taking any affirmative action. The changes are window dressing that neither address nor correct a darn thing.

 

Changes hit, repeat experience, but now it is over the course of 2 weeks instead of just one, and you are still jacked out of your guild CQ weekly yield reward, but now twice because you could not contribute or gain rewards the first week.

The affirmative action: no longer incentive mid-week removal of players and still retain their conquest points for the guild.

I am a player looking for a good conquest guild, not a week-to-week guild hopping experience.

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The affirmative action: no longer incentive mid-week removal of players and still retain their conquest points for the guild.

I am a player looking for a good conquest guild, not a week-to-week guild hopping experience.

 

you are missing the point: just because they are no longer at the top of the tree does not mean they will stop trolling people. That kind of malignant mentality does not just stop that kind of behavior because the reward got smaller, it just means that now they will find additional avenues to satisfy their twisted ends.

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you are missing the point: just because they are no longer at the top of the tree does not mean they will stop trolling people. That kind of malignant mentality does not just stop that kind of behavior because the reward got smaller, it just means that now they will find additional avenues to satisfy their twisted ends.

I’m not missing the point. There is a specific complaint about retaining points from a removed player. They are not at the top of the tree, lol. This discourages one form of their trolling, great.

And thanks for the advice on looking thru community guild finders.

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I accepted a random guild invite from a conquest guild on a Wednesday. I asked in guild chat how can I become a permanent member and an officer replied if I earned 100K conquest points, I would be safe. I agreed. I hit 100K plus by Thursday and took Friday off. Saturday, I was no longer in the guild. I whispered a familiar name I did some heroics with and they told me I was removed Thursday night by the guild leader, along with doz(...)

 

What's the benefit for the guild to kick you out? I don't understand this behaviour.

 

(I was only reading the first and last page of this thread.)

Edited by JattaGin
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What's the benefit for the guild to kick you out? I don't understand this behaviour.

 

(I was only reading the first and last page of this thread.)

 

So they can add another random player to give more points to the guild.

 

They can rinse and repeat this because the guild doesn’t currently lose the conquest points they get from players if they kick them. But this will change soon and if they kick someone, the guild will lose the points that person contributed,

 

Think of it like a tread mill of slaves, once the slave has exhausted their energy, they replace them to build their guild conquest total faster.

 

It’s rather despicable behaviour by these guilds. I really hope Bioware is investigating their behaviour.

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Hi everyone,

 

As a reminder to everyone on the forums, please refrain from attacking each other and/or falling into call out behavior. Those types of posts are not permitted and does not foster a healthy environment for anyone.

 

Thank you!

 

A second reminder.

 

Additionally, please keep comments on topic and do not resort to insulting other people. Conversations in this space should always be civil and respectful.

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