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Apex update

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csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
04.26.2021 , 11:28 AM | #1
Anyone knows why they are going to update the Apex vanguard fight to make him angry if you do the kiting strategy? It's like punishing players for being creative, it's not an exploit as far as i can see, just because people are not doing the fight exactly how devs thought it should be done, they're gonna add a new enrage or soft enrage to a boss that already has at least 3 of them?

AwesomeTacoCat's Avatar


AwesomeTacoCat
04.26.2021 , 12:39 PM | #2
Stupid update in my view. Punish players for thinking creatively and not doing a fight exactly as devs intended it. Destroy months of prog for teams that were working on this strat. Not sure why they're patching this but not the million other cheeses that people have come up with over the years to make certain fights easier than intended.

Opiklo's Avatar


Opiklo
04.26.2021 , 02:46 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by csilvajonas View Post
Anyone knows why they are going to update the Apex vanguard fight to make him angry if you do the kiting strategy? It's like punishing players for being creative, it's not an exploit as far as i can see, just because people are not doing the fight exactly how devs thought it should be done, they're gonna add a new enrage or soft enrage to a boss that already has at least 3 of them?
so you dont see whats wrong with dodging like 80% of the mechanics?
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csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
04.26.2021 , 03:32 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Opiklo View Post
so you dont see whats wrong with dodging like 80% of the mechanics?
Well, if they're gonna start doing this, why not go for all? Why pick one specific tactics people created and remove it? I can make a list of things they could change if the logic is removing stuff that allows us to dodge a mechanic
1 - buff story mode ops, cause you can do all of them with 1dwt and 1h now, it's so easy that it's just a joke, you can almost ignore all tactics
2 - fix the mines bug on Izax hm, cause sometimes they don't spawn
3 - Remove nim crystals, cause if an entire group uses it, you can dodge a lot of mechanics
4 - if the problem is dodging tactics, stealth out should probably be on this list, cause on m&b you can dodge Master's ion cutter with it.
There are probably more stuff that can be on this list, i just don't remember it now. If it's about the amount of things you can skip using a certain tactic, well, sales run teams should also be on that list, cause the buyer is avoiding 100% of tactics most of the times. If it's a combination of both, again, the game probably has more stuff that could be on this list. It makes no sense to me that they're removing something just because players found a way to make the fight easier.

AwesomeTacoCat's Avatar


AwesomeTacoCat
04.27.2021 , 05:37 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Opiklo View Post
so you dont see whats wrong with dodging like 80% of the mechanics?
Is kiting Bestia in council ok to avoid a tank swap? Is it ok to cheese doom in dread guards? Is it ok to stealth out to avoid adds on writhing horror? Is it ok to take a 35m range to LOS green team in city boss? Is it ok to stealth our incinerate armor to avoid a tank swap?

There are tons of strategies that players utilize that the devs didn't intend. That's how games work.

It's not that they're patching this strategy that's annoying, it's that they're doing it 10 months post release after teams have spent lots of time perfecting it.

dready_tv's Avatar


dready_tv
04.27.2021 , 08:44 AM | #6
Imagine doing mechanics The horror NOT COOL!

lord-angelus's Avatar


lord-angelus
04.27.2021 , 09:00 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by AwesomeTacoCat View Post
Is kiting Bestia in council ok to avoid a tank swap? Is it ok to cheese doom in dread guards? Is it ok to stealth out to avoid adds on writhing horror? Is it ok to take a 35m range to LOS green team in city boss? Is it ok to stealth our incinerate armor to avoid a tank swap?

There are tons of strategies that players utilize that the devs didn't intend. That's how games work.

It's not that they're patching this strategy that's annoying, it's that they're doing it 10 months post release after teams have spent lots of time perfecting it.
Yeah if this was a decent game, they would have removed the chevos too. Straight exploit.

csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
04.27.2021 , 09:09 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by lord-angelus View Post
Yeah if this was a decent game, they would have removed the chevos too. Straight exploit.
My point exactly. If they're gonna start removing stuff that makes the fight either 1% easier or 99% easier, go for all and make it fair. If you stealth out during a fight, you stay in combat, so no stealth res anymore (how many bosses were killed thanks to this? So would be fair to remove all cheevos from everyone at this point if that's how they're gonna look to things when players don't follow the tactics they've made). And the list just goes on, to me, finding a new way to do a fight, even if it means you don't have to deal with a lot of its mechanics, it's just part of the game, it's not an exploit like it happened on snv nim where you could remove the level lock or like the battery thing they are removing now.

lord-angelus's Avatar


lord-angelus
04.27.2021 , 09:51 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by csilvajonas View Post
My point exactly. If they're gonna start removing stuff that makes the fight either 1% easier or 99% easier, go for all and make it fair. If you stealth out during a fight, you stay in combat, so no stealth res anymore (how many bosses were killed thanks to this? So would be fair to remove all cheevos from everyone at this point if that's how they're gonna look to things when players don't follow the tactics they've made). And the list just goes on, to me, finding a new way to do a fight, even if it means you don't have to deal with a lot of its mechanics, it's just part of the game, it's not an exploit like it happened on snv nim where you could remove the level lock or like the battery thing they are removing now.
You didn't find a new way to do it. This is not some design ability executed by class. What you did is strictly exploit. Stealth revive is the intended mechanic by some classes bringing to the raid team just like raid buffs. On the other hand what you did is exploit. If you can't comprehend the difference between of two, well.....

csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
04.27.2021 , 10:10 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by lord-angelus View Post
You didn't find a new way to do it. This is not some design ability executed by class. What you did is strictly exploit. Stealth revive is the intended mechanic by some classes bringing to the raid team just like raid buffs. On the other hand what you did is exploit. If you can't comprehend the difference between of two, well.....
well, please explain why it is an exploit, cause i really don't see it as such. The kiting strategy requires at least one marauder/sentinel to be done and it's using stims to face tank the boss while it has 20 stacks of DO, it's not a bug being used to kill it. I'm being serious btw, when i ask you to explain. I'm willing to change my point of view if i'm wrong on this, as far as i could see, the kiting strategy was developed to make it easier to get an extra cheevo (the cleanest of kills). Exploits, from my point of view, are things that were not working as intended by devs cause it was badly coded (like when people got rich with comp gifts, cheese red venom if you use the vents at a certain time). if it's about exploits, fix oasis city green team so we can't shoot them from a long distance. What i mean is that it's not fair to fix one thing only. If they're gonna fix something, fix everything. I agree with you about stealth res, i just don't agree with BW for doing this with one thing, when we have a lot of other problems in a lot of ops that have been here since a long time and they never took their time to fix. It's arbitrary this decision, they decided they didn't like people doing this one specific thing, but pretend a lot of other problems in game don't exist.