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7.0 last expansion?


Zergnaut

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Okay so I get all the developers have been working from home and nothing is business as usual at the moment due to the what's going on in the world.

 

I get that however I'm just curious if anyone else feels like this is pretty much the last expansion I mean they're not doing any Cyber Monday sales like they usually do it seems because I've seen nothing on it and also we got no cinematic trailer so I'm just wondering if anyone else is feeling like this may be the last expansion for the game?

 

I'm not trying to be negative here because I really hope it's not the last expansion but it's kind of feeling like it is

Edited by Zergnaut
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You have to understand something here. EA has not been considering SWTOR to be worthy of a big investment for a very long time now. 2015 was pretty much the last time that they tried to push this game with the help of big trailers and cutscenes and episodic story content to appeal to the casual mass market. But not anymore.

 

They are totally happy to string it along as a very minor side project now that keeps on going for as long as the small investment is enough to offset the server and development costs with the Cartel Market and occasional subscriptions. This does not mean that the game is at risk of getting closed down soon or not getting additional expansions after 7.0. You just have to adjust your expectations accordingly. This game is simply done as far as trying to compete with the other big MMORPGs goes and it will eventually shut down when EA cannot offset its costs anymore or another Star Wars MMORPG takes its place.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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You have to understand something here. EA has not been considering SWTOR to be worthy of a big investment for a very long time now.

 

Keith Kanneg, The Old Republic’s project director, said of the game’s future. “‘What do we want? What do we have? Where are we going?’, that type of thing. Really, this is a foundation year for us, even though it’s 10 years into our life cycle. We looked into it and said, ‘If we want to last another 10 years, we have to do a lot of improvements, a lot of changes, find where we’re going, where our story is going’—so, where do we see it [with Legacy of the Sith]? Kind of the start of the next 10 years.”

 

---https://gizmodo.com/star-wars-the-old-republic-developers-look-back-on-10-1848085158

Edited by xordevoreaux
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It's really going to depend on whether Disney wants to keep it going when the contract is up. Keith or anyone else that works for EAWare have very little say in it. With The Mandalorian, the upcoming Obi-Wan and Fett series due to release, it should keep people's interest engaged enough to keep it going, but again, this relies on Disney and whether they feel it's in their best interest to keep this game afloat. Look on the bright side though, at least this game isn't New World, where they've lost nearly 80% of their player base since launch due to massive exploits and gold duping. This game still has a decent population.

 

To answer the question, it's hard to tell. This could be their last expansion that resembles anything major. I see updates being sprinkled in here and there, but you need to look no further than their expansion history to get an idea.

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I don't really see how that quote of Keith somehow invalidates what I wrote in my post?

 

First of all, he is only describing his hope of another 10 years with this game, not any factual business plan or fixed release cycle. It sounds more like wishful thinking than anything else to me. Apart from that, even if EA will continue to invest into the next 10 years of the game's development, that does not automatically mean that it will suddenly be back to awesome trailers or a complete engine overhaul or big expansions. They can still keep it going on a very low flame.

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This has been the song since 2015 around here lol. EVERY time they release something. "Oh the game is dead it's closing after this"...

 

Anyone else remember the "6.0 will never happen" mob? Cos that was laaaaaaaaaarge. And as wrong as every other.

 

I remember that, and it's why I keep saying "while some will leave, many will stay and adapt to the changes, and the game will continue".

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This has been the song since 2015 around here lol. EVERY time they release something. "Oh the game is dead it's closing after this"...

 

Anyone else remember the "6.0 will never happen" mob? Cos that was laaaaaaaaaarge. And as wrong as every other.

I'll take it a step further than that, this has been going on since 2012, when the game went FTP within a year of the game's launch and servers were consolidated. This game still has a decent population to keep it going for years to come.

Edited by Pirana
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I'll take it a step further than that, this has been going on since 2012, when the game went FTP within a year of the game's launch and servers were consolidated. This game still has a decent population to keep it going for years to come.

 

Haha, I've only been here since around 2015, so I couldn't say earlier than that. I just know I've never seen a time WITHOUT a lot of doomsayers on the forums and in the general chat. It's funny cos all these people obviously still find the game fun enough to spend their time on haha

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Haha, I've only been here since around 2015, so I couldn't say earlier than that. I just know I've never seen a time WITHOUT a lot of doomsayers on the forums and in the general chat. It's funny cos all these people obviously still find the game fun enough to spend their time on haha

 

Been here since beta with a few breaks here and there, but even during the down times, I still perused these forums. I've been a part of a lot gaming forums for over a decade and unfortunately, the doomsayers are always going to be around. I think sometimes people have a way of not conveying their overall message, and I do believe it's more passion for the game than perhaps disdain.

 

As you mentioned, people wouldn't be here if they didn't care about playing the game, but for people like myself or others that have been here for ten years, we've witnessed first hand the very questionable decisions this company has made, and some of those decisions have led to mass consolidation of servers, to what, five servers now I think. With this being the only legitimate Star Wars MMO out there, I think there's still a lot of life in it, which is backed by their population total, even if half of those are free to play players. A brand new player coming into this game, the upcoming changes won't affect them, and for a new player, there's so much content, they'll be busy for a very long time.

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(Preface - this will be long. Apologies in advance)

 

*******************************

 

Whether or not this game gets shut down, shuttled off to perpetual maintenance mode, or the coding sold to third parties to run private servers involves a lot of factors. Not the least of which is not, "Does the game make money", but does the game make ENOUGH money. Specifically, the term (and this is not a silver bullet answer) is Return on Investment, or ROI.

 

Let's say, hypothetically speaking, each episode of 'The Mandalorian' costs 20 million. However, the accountants estimate that each episode nets (NOT gross) 100 million in revenue (be that advertisers, merchandise sold, and some other streams that are beyond this thread), for a ROI of five (5). (There is obviously more than one episode a season)

 

Now let's say that SWTOR costs three (3) million a year in land space, power, water, salaries etc. If the net income is 4.5 million, then the ROI is 1.5.

 

Disney is not invulnerable. They have lost a significant amount of subs at ESPN, ESPNU, and even some of their streaming services are losing subs. Park attendance obviously suffered for obvious reasons, and their last two "MCU" movies (Shang - something and Eternals) were relative bombs at the box office. There are also internal grumblings among higher ups regarding the tone, and direction of the entertainment. (Sadly this has not resulted in the sacking of KK, but those things can happen in a day).

 

The point I'm trying to make is that while SWTOR is a small fish in a VERY large entertainment pond, at some point the game has to show or give a reason for EA or whomever to keep the game afloat. IF Disney gains exclusive rights to all "Star Wars" licensing, they have no loyalty to this game. (I suspect a park makes more in one day than this game does in a year).

 

If you're the lowest performer, even if you are turning a net profit, in the interests of efficiency, and ploughing more money into the better returners, Disney has no reason to keep this one around. (At least until they come up with their OWN Star Wars MMO).

 

At some point, somebody is going to look at SWTOr and ask, "This is a game, that in the middle of a world-wide event, with a BRAND NAME, only has {X} subs, and {YX} daily players, when it should have {10XY}? " (EA really screwed the pooch with this game, and 7.0 will not do them any favors)

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Been here since beta with a few breaks here and there, but even during the down times, I still perused these forums. I've been a part of a lot gaming forums for over a decade and unfortunately, the doomsayers are always going to be around. I think sometimes people have a way of not conveying their overall message, and I do believe it's more passion for the game than perhaps disdain.

 

As you mentioned, people wouldn't be here if they didn't care about playing the game, but for people like myself or others that have been here for ten years, we've witnessed first hand the very questionable decisions this company has made, and some of those decisions have led to mass consolidation of servers, to what, five servers now I think. With this being the only legitimate Star Wars MMO out there, I think there's still a lot of life in it, which is backed by their population total, even if half of those are free to play players. A brand new player coming into this game, the upcoming changes won't affect them, and for a new player, there's so much content, they'll be busy for a very long time.

 

I agree with this .. somewhat.

 

All too often people mistake differences of opinions that are posted on the forums for something entirely different than just a difference of perspective. And (for some odd reason) some who frequent said forums tend to be a bit more aggressive when demonstrating their thoughts. And of course there really are many who are passionate about "gaming" / "gamers" and (in this particular) case) equally passionate about the Star Wars saga (genre).

 

Where I will probably differ in opinion with several comments on this particular thread is 7.0 = expansion. IMO SWTOR has not had a genuine " expansion" in a while now. JUS was a noted change in the direction of the story telling, but some might even debate how "much" of an XP that was. 6.0 was NOT ( IMO) an XP. There was a lot about it I DID LIKE ... but was entirely too brief. &.0 seems to be following the same path as 6.0 as far as new content is concerned.

 

As for the "new mechanics" and other assorted changes that will be coming out ... **sigh** ... As much as I'd like to be more positive ... it's a tough call right now.

 

I will say this for me personally: I refuse to quit at this juncture. That said, I'm taking a "wait and see" posture for now. The game does seem (for now) to have parted away from several key items that made SWTOR what it was .. and those items (again .. for now) maybe long gone. If there is to be an 8.0 then 7.0 will need to produce results and promise enough for everyone (both consumer and board of directors at EA) to warrant future investment.

 

I hope for the best for all of us ... BUT .. that hope, of late, has been tempered with what some might call a strong dose of "reality" .

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I don't really see how that quote of Keith somehow invalidates what I wrote in my post?

 

First of all, he is only describing his hope of another 10 years with this game, not any factual business plan or fixed release cycle. It sounds more like wishful thinking than anything else to me. Apart from that, even if EA will continue to invest into the next 10 years of the game's development, that does not automatically mean that it will suddenly be back to awesome trailers or a complete engine overhaul or big expansions. They can still keep it going on a very low flame.

 

Also, just because Keith presented EA with a 5 year business model (which by the way most business managers do), doesn’t mean EA have accepted it as the way forward or that they will continue operations.

I’m glad that Keith wants the game to keep going for another 10 years, but is that even realistic when it’s impossible to upgrade the current Hero engine to 64bit or improve all the technical stuff with more than a bandaid?

I would think EA would be asking similar questions about cost vs return on trying to modernise the game. If Keith’s business plan is to cut costs even more to keep up profits, eventually people will leave from lack of NEW playable content. People don’t keep playing because of rehashed old content in a new wrapper or redesigned gear grind every 2 years.

And let’s be realistic, EA only care about profits. If the game makes them X% of profit, they will keep it going. But as soon as the profit % drops below X, you can guarantee they’ll shut the game.

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I remember that, and it's why I keep saying "while some will leave, many will stay and adapt to the changes, and the game will continue".

 

Without Mandalorian kickstarting Star Wars again and without Steam and without the fall of Wow this game would look very grim right now. As it is it's far from "doing well".

 

That said if the game's producers thought this game was about to die they wouldn't be giving the UI a new paint job. Even with a very low population the game still makes 10s of millions from the Cartel Market and costs a fraction of that to maintain. They have no reason to kill it unless they're about to replace it. I'm sure that once the contract dies however, if someone else makes a SW mmo, this one will die very quickly no matter what BW or EA do.

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https://sec.report/Document/0000712515-21-000148/

 

********************

 

The above is why I never went into accounting. Anyhoo....

 

partially offset by a $110 million decrease in net revenue primarily from the Star Wars and UFC franchises.

 

partially offset by a $291 million decrease in net revenue primarily from the Star Wars, The Sims, and Need for Speed franchises.

We also may divest or sell assets or a business and we may have difficulty selling such assets or business on acceptable terms in a timely manner. This could result in a delay in the achievement of our strategic objectives, cause us to incur additional expense, or the sale of such assets or business at a price or on terms that are less favorable than we anticipated. We may be unable to maintain or acquire licenses to include intellectual property owned by others in our games, or to maintain or acquire the rights to publish or distribute games developed by others. Many of our products and services are based on or incorporate intellectual property owned by others. For example, our EA Sports products include rights licensed from major sports leagues, teams and players’ associations and our Star Wars products include rights licensed from Disney. Competition for these licenses and rights is intense. If we are unable to maintain these licenses and rights or obtain additional licenses or rights with significant commercial value, our ability to develop successful and engaging products and services may be adversely affected and our revenue, profitability and cash flows may decline significantly.

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https://www.pcgamer.com/bioware-has-no-plans-to-end-star-wars-the-old-republic-anytime-soon/

 

From the Nov 4th, 2021 PCGamer article, "BioWare Has No Plans to End Star Wars: The Old Republic Anytime Soon:"

 

Chatting with creative director Charles Boyd about The Old Republic's impending 10-year anniversary, I confess I was hoping he'd say that BioWare was almost done with the MMO—but only because I'm craving a sequel. I always want new, shinier things. But the team has "no plans to stop anytime soon," he says. There are more stories and sci-fi crises to come.
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https://www.pcgamer.com/bioware-has-no-plans-to-end-star-wars-the-old-republic-anytime-soon/

 

From the Nov 4th, 2021 PCGamer article, "BioWare Has No Plans to End Star Wars: The Old Republic Anytime Soon:"

 

Charles will find out just before we do. Lots of games get killed while people are in the middle of working on them and planning for their future. BW had another game in development a few years ago and one of the senior BW reps (who also works on SWTOR) posted on reddit about how it is "absolutely not canceled" less than two weeks before that game (Shadowrealms) was canceled. I'm not saying BW is about to cancel SWTOR, just pointing out that you and I won't hear that anyone's planning to cancel it. And no one will ever admit it's being canceled while they're marketing for an expansion no matter what.

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Unfortunately, it's not up to them.

 

Exactly.

 

I'm not sure why it's so hard for some to understand, that continuing this game isn't up to EAWare any longer, it's up to Disney. I think their contract with EA was signed in 2013, it's whether Disney deems it a worthy investment any further once that ten year contract is up. Disney owns Star Wars now, it's not up to EA, it's as simple as that.

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We will not know until they actually say it is cancelled. There was talk on SWG prior to them closing the game if it was going to close and the devs kept saying no until it was officially announced it was closing.

 

It would depend on

(1) Finances

(2) People playing

(3) Disney

 

So while it is not closing right now, it does not mean they will not come into the forums a few months or year and tell us they are closing the game. I have learned to just be prepared.

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