What a witty, unique reply. I salute you for your creativity and eloquence. Very unexpected reply, too.

 

 

 

Judging by how many forumers fell for the hype in the summer, I doubt that this will ever happen. I didn't believe any of their "good sounding" news. And I spoke out about it already in the summer. It's only now that more and more players realise what happened and happens. And it will get worse after 7.0 actually hits and the players who don't follow the forums or reddit will get shocked. Imagine you log in to 7.0 without having heard about combat styles before. How can this not be confusing to players? Even I have problems understanding their explanations.

 

 

 

In my opinion, this came too late. Right in the summer, the outcry should have come. But the majority fell for it. I disliked everything I read about 7.0 from the very first announcement (except that there will be some new story).

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

Yes, but what baffles me is that even after 10 years, so many "legacy players" still believe yellow posts. At this point, I can only call it naive to believe anything which sounds too good to be true.

 

And, regarding communication here: It's the job of the community manager. BW has two of them since 2020. And both haven't been doing their job properly. Which is: to manage the community. When Jackie introduced herself on this board, I replied critical to what she claimed she would do. I didn't believe she would actually follow through with it. And I was right (maybe she wants to, but isn't allowed to; I have nothing personally against her or anyone from BW; I don't know them). We have the 10 years anniversary coming up and there is NOTHING happening on BW's official channels hyping the expansion. Most of the threads on this board are negative or worried. Their Twitter still talks about a decoration instead of - for example - step by step highlighting individual bits that 7.0 will bring to the game (if there will be brought something to the game, maybe the issue is that so many things are being taken out and they don't know how to market that positively?). So many questions remain unanswered and ignored. What a marketing disaster from BW imho. Disappointing. But not surprising to me.

 

 

 

Isn't Mr. Kanneg is pleased with how things are right now? His buddies, the NM raiding community, is satisfied with his doings. Within his peer circle, he thus gets very good feedback. It's our fault that we don't play the game like Mr. Kanneg does, and wants us to do.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you. I thought I was the only one who has no idea why he would want to change his characters. I won't even add a second combat style (if it's possible to not add one). Especially, since I go preferred in January and will lose it anyway. Wouldn't want risking having logged out with the wrong style when my sub ends.

Ermahgerd. The NiM community isn't happy with everything. We haven't been in years. Which is why there are so few of us left. It's also why there's so much talk of Final Fantasy next Friday.

Truth be told, no community in this game should be happy. Nobody is getting nearly the amount of content they should be getting for an expansion let alone the 10 year anniversary one. Nobody is getting any real player systems update that makes good sense. Nobody is getting anything good out of this expansion outside of a Barbie doll upgrade in the weapon outfitter. This isn't an expansion. This isn't anything. This is a total waste of players time and money. Instead of always blaming a community steadily on the decline why don't we all do what Trixxie suggested in unsubbing to report feedback? That's SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than saying the nim raiding crowd needs to feel special or that we approve of anything. We do not. Non moddable gear is dumb. Not having a raid is for x years and running now is dumb. Having to reinvent the gearing wheel every "update" is dumb. Trying to get excited for what amounts to a weapon outfitter update is duuuuuuuumb. This game, while we all love to remember the good times whatever they were for us, and that we still have great friends in game to pal around with, is literally not good enough for us. They purposefully make it not good enough for us fully knowing that what they give us doesn't matter at all. THAT is the true shame in all this. How big of "yes men" we all have become.

Who said upper management reads why people unsubscribe? Would that be a yellow post too? Or did you mean "upper management " at Austin, where the people who're implementing 7.0 are the ones reading why people are unsubscribing?

C'mon man.

Who said upper management reads why people unsubscribe? Would that be a yellow post too? Or did you mean "upper management " at Austin, where the people who're implementing 7.0 are the ones reading why people are unsubscribing?

 

C'mon man.

So imagine you’re an EA exec and see a big dip in subscriber numbers just before and during the launch of an expansion. BioWare tell the a bunch of malarkey to justify it and deflect blame to get away with it like they always do. But EA have access to those feedback reports that list all the reasons people have left.

Sure the execs have to ask for a report on them first. But they will be recorded somewhere for posterity. This way someone(s) can be held accountable (if EA looks) and they don’t get a promotion into another project (like Ben Irving did) when they fail to listen to player push back and it loses EA money.

Of course, EA might just decide to shutter the whole game if 7.0 flops as hard as many of us expect.

So imagine you’re an EA exec and see a big dip in subscriber numbers just before and during the launch of an expansion. BioWare tell the a bunch of malarkey to justify it and deflect blame to get away with it like they always do. But EA have access to those feedback reports that list all the reasons people have left.

Sure the execs have to ask for a report on them first. But they will be recorded somewhere for posterity. This way someone(s) can be held accountable (if EA looks) and they don’t get a promotion into another project (like Ben Irving did) when they fail to listen to player push back and it loses EA money.

Of course, EA might just decide to shutter the whole game if 7.0 flops as hard as many of us expect.

The simple saying "Money Talks" sums this up.

Don't kid yourself if you think Exec's don't watch the numbers. They Always watch the numbers.

Money goes away - they get damn right pissy about it.

But as trix pointed out - EA's likely reaction is to shut the game down - cause EA is just that....EA.

As to why? Because Bioware won't disclose the full story - and all the EA Exec's care about is that they lost money and not about why.

So hopefully some good will come out of this....one can hope.

In my opinion, this came too late. Right in the summer, the outcry should have come. But the majority fell for it. I disliked everything I read about 7.0 from the very first announcement (except that there will be some new story).

BW in the summer: There will be an expansion this year. You will be able to pick second combat style!

Forum: Cool!

BW later: ...we're also changing gearing for the worse, nerfing abilities, nerfing conquest and the game will tell you what you must play to get rewards.

Forum: No, this is awful!

Not unreasonable reactions in my opinion.

At this point, Keith really should be making a yellow post to explain to the players and apologise how this whole thing has been handled. It’s the very least he could do!

I suspect they either wait for it to blow over or are thinking hard about ways to mitigate this absolute disaster and will post once they have a solid plan.

I, personally, am astounded how bad this expansion is going to be. BW took 2ish years during covid to brain storm a cool expansion and this is what we got. Seriously? This is what the best and brightest at BW have to offer? Just astounded and insulted.

cool, you have played the complete expansion already? Where do I sign up?

This happens with every big update. People quit, chanting something about how this game is dead as they stumble out the door.... And then new people roll in, the game continues to exist, changing bits and pieces here and there until the next big update. Rinse and repeat.

Also, where are these game breaking bugs? I've been playing since beta. I've never run into a bug that broke the game for me. Or are we just using "game breaking" loosely?

And why are people mad about the news that we can't change our primary class? You CHOSE your class initially for a reason. Why would you choose something you didn't like or want? And even if you did choose to play a class for the story rather than the gameplay, you are still getting a second class to choose from, no? You can get the playstyle you want now. What's the problem?

Oh well. Sorry you're displeased and leaving.

I don't get why people would want to. You've been playing that character since whenever with its already existing combat style. Why all of a sudden do you want to change it? ...

 

I don't see it a bad thing to have players replay old content. For myself, I finished all 8 class stories and have moved on. As I got each class into Fallen Empire/Eternal Throne I got nostalgic for the Class stories because yes, playing the same story 8 times can get stale a bit. I made 8 new characters this time playing the other subclass option for each class. Now it might be interesting to play a class story with another class's powers.

I'll agree with you, trying to be more optimistic. Despite more concerns about 7.0 than I had with 6.0 in fact.

I mean if we already have a Combat Style for the Class why would someone want to change it? Still you can add a Second after finishing I believe Chapter 3. While it's TRUE perhaps fresh new character's can choose a fresh Combat Style out of the Gate... ...if you've played that character all along in that style, I'd want to honor that style!

Like You I did 4 Republic and 4 Imperial initially, and then if I did a Sentinel on Jedi I choose the opposite type for Imperial. Now since I had all Legendary Class unlocked, I started expanding a few to the Mirror class despite only having a few!

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I'm OK they removed RENOWN, despite it will produce far less drops of Gear each week; especially Higher Level.

Really wished they would revise Weekly Missions to include only 75 - 80 newest Content!

╘ then at least offer one Item Level appropriate Gear Crate for each weekly.

♫ It also allow QUEUE to focus players on more the RECENT content released in the game!

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There's just going to be too little 80 Level Content at first, that will allow progression especially with Renown gone!

I intend not to leave, but will wholly enjoy watching the game's near total destruction. Only then, perhaps, as Nero realized, will the game have a chance to rebuild in a lasting way. Or not; in which case I'm here to watch Rome burn.

That process is quite fun to watch, happened to WoW during the course of shadowlands.

I am only hoping their 7.0 gearing experiment crushes and burn and by the time 7.1 comes max ilvl moddable gear is available to all no matter the content they enjoy doing, currencies have always been great for achieving that.

Cuz at the end of the day I enjoy swtor due to:

-Great bioware style story and choices

-Star wars theme with animations that fit well with combat style fantasy

-A huge open world with a ton of planets

-One of the better mmorpgs when it comes to pvp

-Great combat gameplay with good tab targeting classic combat, that being very important since both games like ff14 and guild wars 2 sucked simply because of this even if they are great in all the other areas.

This happens with every big update. People quit, chanting something about how this game is dead as they stumble out the door.... And then new people roll in, the game continues to exist, changing bits and pieces here and there until the next big update. Rinse and repeat.

,

But with less players than before the release. It’s a continuous trend with nearly every release in the last 5 years loses more players than it attracts.

Sure you might get a spike for the 4-6 weeks after release. But by the time we get to February-March we nearly always have less players than before.

And while the game has continued on under this type of nonsensical business model, how long can it really continue?

At some point there won’t be enough players to fill a “space cruiser” or do any group content outside of diminished 3 hour primetime that continuously shrinks.

BioWares and EA response to players leaving isn’t listening to players asking for more or better content or making the game more enjoyable. Their response is and has always been cutting costs to make the profit margin higher. But even that’s not sustainable much longer when you don’t have enough players.

Eventually the numbers on the spreadsheet will hit a critical point where EA pull the plug because the game isn’t meeting expected financial profit targets.

But with less players than before the release. It’s a continuous trend with nearly every release in the last 5 years loses more players than it attracts.

 

Sure you might get a spike for the 4-6 weeks after release. But by the time we get to February-March we nearly always have less players than before.

 

And while the game has continued on under this type of nonsensical business model, how long can it really continue?

At some point there won’t be enough players to fill a “space cruiser” or do any group content outside of diminished 3 hour primetime that continuously shrinks.

 

BioWares and EA response to players leaving isn’t listening to players asking for more or better content or making the game more enjoyable. Their response is and has always been cutting costs to make the profit margin higher. But even that’s not sustainable much longer when you don’t have enough players.

Eventually the numbers on the spreadsheet will hit a critical point where EA pull the plug because the game is meeting expected financial profit targets.

I understand that it cant survive forever on this. But the game is ten years old. People said this game was dying even before release. I was there. I saw the doomsday predictions. But here we are.

It'll slowly die off over time. Maybe sooner rather than later. But this update will not be the final nail in the coffin. Just like the last one wasn't and the ones before that weren't. When Bioware says "this will be the last update" or "we will no longer be updating SWTOR", then we can panic.

...It’s why myself and others have unsubbed in protest to 7.0 so our cancelled sub feedback forms go directly to upper management. We can always resub if they’ve made changes in 7.0.

I unsubbed last week. I never had an opportunity to fill in a feedback form. I think it just reminded me that I'd have to resub before my time ran out to stay a subscriber and my page says "You have 37 days of subscription play time remaining.". Anyway, maybe their bean-counters will notice.

I understand that it cant survive forever on this. But the game is ten years old. People said this game was dying even before release. I was there. I saw the doomsday predictions. But here we are.

 

It'll slowly die off over time. Maybe sooner rather than later. But this update will not be the final nail in the coffin. Just like the last one wasn't and the ones before that weren't. When Bioware says "this will be the last update" or "we will no longer be updating SWTOR", then we can panic.

The difference is if this was any other IP than Star Wars, those predictions would have come true already. Any other developer would have pulled the game. Look at Wildstar or even Anthem, both had more players when they were cancelled than swtor currently does.

EA and BioWare get around this by cutting costs continuously and because it’s a Star Wars game they don’t need to spend money to promote it or even make it as good as what it should be. They use the release of SW IP movies or TV shows to try and cash in on the fan base by making cash shop outfits and looks that resemble the ones from shows.

Like I said, if this was any other IP, this game would have failed years ago.

The difference is if this was any other IP than Star Wars, those predictions would have come true already. Any other developer would have pulled the game. Look at Wildstar or even Anthem, both had more players when they were cancelled than swtor currently does.

 

EA and BioWare get around this by cutting costs continuously and because it’s a Star Wars game they don’t need to spend money to promote it or even make it as good as what it should be. They use the release of SW IP movies or TV shows to try and cash in on the fan base by making cash shop outfits and looks that resemble the ones from shows.

 

Like I said, if this was any other IP, this game would have failed years ago.

But it hasn't failed yet. So just have fun with it while you can. Let them cash in on the fact that it's Star Wars. Bioware recently said that they aren't done with the game yet. I don't know about you, but I'm grateful for that. They've given me ten years of enjoyment. Even if the game dies tomorrow, they did right by me and many others.

...When Bioware says "this will be the last update" or "we will no longer be updating SWTOR", then we can panic.

You are expecting them to actually make an announcement?

They will just turn out the lights, pretend its Christmas break and see if anyone notices in May.

If anyone does, we'll get a reskinned astromech droid.

But it hasn't failed yet. So just have fun with it while you can. Let them cash in on the fact that it's Star Wars. Bioware recently said that they aren't done with the game yet. I don't know about you, but I'm grateful for that. They've given me ten years of enjoyment. Even if the game dies tomorrow, they did right by me and many others.

I have watched another Star Wars game die before (SWG) and from the way BW is handling it this one may be headed the same way except I seriously doubt they will say anything considering how they fail to let people know of changes. Part of the reason people are angry and upset right now is the way the handled the class changes. Yes, we been playing with them for 10 years but when they announce a feature that you could change to something else and then wait a few days before launch to let us know and that is after some people found it announced on discord and not on the forums. That made a lot of people upset like they were trying to hide the changes.

After Last nights announcement from the Bioware development team I've decided to stop playing SWTOR.

Feel free to send your credits to Graggory on Star Forge before you leave! For those of us who've never farmed credits or used any exploits or even had much luck with our timing on selling craftables and stuff, GTN prices are insane. I'll never be able to buy cosmetics I want. So, if you're quitting anyway.... let someone else benefit? Pretty please?

The difference is if this was any other IP than Star Wars, those predictions would have come true already. Any other developer would have pulled the game. Look at Wildstar or even Anthem, both had more players when they were cancelled than swtor currently does.

 

EA and BioWare get around this by cutting costs continuously and because it’s a Star Wars game they don’t need to spend money to promote it or even make it as good as what it should be. They use the release of SW IP movies or TV shows to try and cash in on the fan base by making cash shop outfits and looks that resemble the ones from shows.

 

Like I said, if this was any other IP, this game would have failed years ago.

Very true. Star Wars is really the only reason I come back because otherwise the ancient tab targeting combat, the ability delay and the claustrophobic feel would have been a hard no for me right from the start.

But to your other points, the problems with this game simply aren't fixable.

SWTOR spent all it's money on great stories, but built it all of it on a crappy engine that should never, ever be used for an MMORPG because a dozen or more players on screen at once and the game starts lagging. Ilum, the highly hyped endgame PVP planet, was nothing more than a slide show. The game's life span was cut short right away because unless you are willing to shut the game down and rebuild a la FF14, that problem will never go away. An MMO that can't have too many players on screen at once? Not going to be very successful. So at this point, it's really a single player/multiplayer game.

The move to FTP pretty much sealed any chance this game had of making much profit beyond the cash shop. I'd love more story content too, but do you really think EA , or any company for that matter, is going to spend loads of money to make large, deep story content for just the price of a monthly sub? Particularly when the game has only five total servers? Not going to happen. Based on the fact it took them three years to release the tiny bit of content that was Onlsaught,(those cash shop whales aren't big enough) ,I'd say that the two Knights expansions are likely the last you will ever see of a decent sized story expansion. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't think I am. Those two expansions were the last time that it looked like EA was actually trying to make the game successful. It didn't work and they haven't really tried since.

I've been gone for some time so there's a lot of catch up for me on my characters, but once the story is done I'm done until next time. EA doesn't care, why should I?

The move to FTP pretty much sealed any chance this game had of making much profit beyond the cash shop. I'd love more story content too, but do you really think EA , or any company for that matter, is going to spend loads of money to make large, deep story content for just the price of a monthly sub? Particularly when the game has only five total servers? Not going to happen. Based on the fact it took them three years to release the tiny bit of content that was Onlsaught,(those cash shop whales aren't big enough) ,I'd say that the two Knights expansions are likely the last you will ever see of a decent sized story expansion. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't think I am. Those two expansions were the last time that it looked like EA was actually trying to make the game successful. It didn't work and they haven't really tried since.

 

This game is my first CRPG ever, let alone an MMO. I never wanted to pay a recurring fee just to play a game. I only started to play this because it was free to play. I knew I wouldn't have access to everything, but I wanted to try it out. I got all Star Wars giddy and enjoying the heck out of it playing the Jedi Knight Story. I became a paid subscriber. Even if they had to go free to play to draw in new customers, it worked on me and likely many others. The question remains if the changes they are doing will get more free to play customers to become paid subscribers. I would love more epic story content, but for new players there's a lot of stuff already. I started playing in 2018. I only recently got my fourth original character of one of each class to have finished everything that exists so far. I currently have 16 characters, two for each class. I have an inkling to create 8 more to use the different combat styles. I may just have them only do the class stories, but I'm not holding myself to that.

never for a millisecond did I think I would be able to change my initial class or did I ever want to to begin with.

This.

My main's been a Smuggler Gunslinger for 10 years.

It's nice that he's now going to be able to stealth for dailies.

But never, in any of the wording I've seen, did I expect to have an option to change him from Gunslinger to anything else. "This is a permanent choice and you can't change it!"

In fact, I'm amazed that I... ~might~ be able to swap my LS Mara to a Sentinel. That alone is more than I was expecting.

Which brings me to my point. Which isn't even about SWTOR specifically.

Stop reading your own hopes and wishes into things.

The amount of times I've seen backlash from things that were literally never intended to exist not existing because the community for something somehow created a sentence that was never said in their heads and convinced everyone else that it existed, is insane.

Almost every game I play, people complain about almost every single patch because... the community reads things into the patch notes that were never stated. Because people expect features from game releases that were never even hinted at.

If people actually based their expectations for things off of facts and reality, instead of hopes and dreams, people would probably be far less upset about almost everything that comes out.

Whether or not the devs hoped for it to be possible, the simple fact is that nothing I've ever read or heard about the official posts ever made me think for even a second that any of my existing characters would be able to change the combat style slot that their current existing class takes up.

Gain a second one? Yes.

New characters post-7.0 having 2 previously impossible combos? Yes.

But existing characters? Not at all.