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Fix ALL Flashpoints for 7.0


Phaedruss's Avatar


Phaedruss
11.29.2021 , 11:03 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
Um, whuh? The solution to skipping the trash mobs is to remove the trash mobs? That makes no sense. 🙄
If the exploits aren't fixable, then this would remove them. I said I didn't think it was a solution, cause it's not. Combat content is important in an theme park mmo based on combat classes. But it would be better than using platforming onto things you're not supposed to jump on (hence why most people get stuck when trying.) or using checkpoint res to skip most of it...
Dark Lord Muad'Rautha Kallig - The Forcewalker -
The power to destroy a thing, is the absolute control over it.
DELAY THE EXPANSION

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
11.29.2021 , 11:45 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Phaedruss View Post
If the exploits aren't fixable, then this would remove them. I said I didn't think it was a solution, cause it's not. Combat content is important in an theme park mmo based on combat classes. But it would be better than using platforming onto things you're not supposed to jump on (hence why most people get stuck when trying.) or using checkpoint res to skip most of it...
Actually, I don't think its necessarily all that unusual that a party might try to skip enemies. Even a Jedi who couldn't use Force Cloak might desire to focus only on the mission and not cause extraneous deaths. For example, take Athiss. Jumping onto that ledge before the first boss would definitely fall into your category of platforming and getting stuck. But, its not uniconic that a Jedi might take that route. Imagine Obi Wan, who did not have the ability to turn invisible, sneaking through the Death Star.

I think you are going to have a lot easier time convincing people to come around to your side if you stick to things that are arguably unintended. Stick to the example of everyone waiting at the beginning of the flashpoint until a stealther reaches a pre-defined revival checkpoint.
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Townowi's Avatar


Townowi
11.29.2021 , 12:18 PM | #73
What's obvious is that, even in the absence of exploits, FPs aren't anywhere near close to having consistent lengths, or difficulties even.

Removing trash from some FPs, in whole (Chiss, Nathema) or in part (Tython, Cademimu, Directive 7, SoE, SoV, Umbara, Taral 5, Maelstrom, BP, and so on, so forth, but bonus bosses would need to have their trash requirements reduced or eliminated) would go a long way towards having a better balance of length, even though it won't necessarily make them significantly easier.

Quote: Originally Posted by Phaedruss View Post
If the exploits aren't fixable, then this would remove them. I said I didn't think it was a solution, cause it's not. Combat content is important in an theme park mmo based on combat classes. But it would be better than using platforming onto things you're not supposed to jump on (hence why most people get stuck when trying.) or using checkpoint res to skip most of it...
For most FPs, trash is usually much less engaging than bosses, and, more often than not, is not essential to the story (And it's not just the 5.0 FPs either). Outside of the rakghoul FPs, bosses tend to drive the story, and are often the sole story drivers.

Sure, removing the trash would alter bosses' characterization (for example, Zenta would instead come off as someone that would rather lull enemies into a false sense of security), or how a locale would feel, but the substance of the story would remain mostly intact most of the time.

That said there are definitely FPs that are too long for their own good.
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DeannaVoyager's Avatar


DeannaVoyager
11.29.2021 , 03:57 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Phaedruss View Post
On some of these you can easily skip 75% or more of the flashpoints, this is NOT intended.
Not true. Skipping mobs in flashpoints IS intended. That's why there are gaps between the mobs, that's we have stealther classes, that's why there are crates and elevators you can use to go around. Just because you don't know how to skip, or you don't know how to be a part of a group, doesn't make skipping an exploit. You can keep repeating that until eternity and you're still not getting your way.

If you don't want to do what the rest of the group does, you need to go solo. There's plenty of stuff you can do solo and kill everything in an instance, but you don't get to dictate how others should play their game. If you want to do that, you need to buy EA and pay them to change the game the way you want it. Until then, the rest of us will play it AS INTENDED and there's nothing you can do about it.

Phaedruss's Avatar


Phaedruss
11.29.2021 , 04:24 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by DeannaVoyager View Post
Not true. Skipping mobs in flashpoints IS intended. That's why there are gaps between the mobs, that's we have stealther classes, that's why there are crates and elevators you can use to go around. Just because you don't know how to skip, or you don't know how to be a part of a group, doesn't make skipping an exploit. You can keep repeating that until eternity and you're still not getting your way.

If you don't want to do what the rest of the group does, you need to go solo. There's plenty of stuff you can do solo and kill everything in an instance, but you don't get to dictate how others should play their game. If you want to do that, you need to buy EA and pay them to change the game the way you want it. Until then, the rest of us will play it AS INTENDED and there's nothing you can do about it.
Actually there is. I can voice my opinions on the forums, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Dark Lord Muad'Rautha Kallig - The Forcewalker -
The power to destroy a thing, is the absolute control over it.
DELAY THE EXPANSION

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
11.29.2021 , 04:35 PM | #76
Skipping mobs is fine, however I do think that the Stealth to the next checkpoint and have everyone suicide is kind of an exploit. Is that being fixed now however since stealth classes don't leave combat by cloaking out once 7.0 launches?

Phaedruss's Avatar


Phaedruss
11.29.2021 , 04:59 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
Skipping mobs is fine, however I do think that the Stealth to the next checkpoint and have everyone suicide is kind of an exploit. Is that being fixed now however since stealth classes don't leave combat by cloaking out once 7.0 launches?
From my knowledge that is only for using vanish type abilities while already in combat - which doesn't alert mobs to you, but rather keeps you in combat so you cant use stealth res or other abilities that can only be used out of combat. I don't think it will effect stealthing past mobs while not in combat.
Dark Lord Muad'Rautha Kallig - The Forcewalker -
The power to destroy a thing, is the absolute control over it.
DELAY THE EXPANSION

Phaedruss's Avatar


Phaedruss
11.29.2021 , 05:16 PM | #78
For some reason people think I'm attacking stealth mechanics and use of cc to get past trash mobs, I'm not. This is 100% not exploiting (though a lot of other mmos make it so most mobs have stealth detection in the dungeons), but it's using stealth to abuse the checkpoints where it becomes an exploit and ruins the content. Sitting around waiting to kill yourself is not content.
My other concerns are with some of the terrain usage, where players are getting to areas that were not intended to skip mobs - there is a reason so many people struggle with the ledge jump in Athiss: players were not intended to get onto that ledge, which is why so many get stuck or struggle with it/spend way too much time on it when the mobs down the stairs might take an extra 30 seconds to just clear; this game is not known for it's platforming - exploits that revolve around it are some of the worst because of how bad the platforming is.
Quaker had a good explanation of the cadimemu exploit - any exploit like these should 100% be patched up.

I personally think a lot of the mobs have too short of aggro range, but never meant that strategically running past them is an exploit - just that they are too easy to run past.

I also want to reiterate that I am not advocating forcing players to do full clears. I have never said this. Wanting exploits patched up in no way entails a full clear.

As I've said numerous times, flashpoints that take 10min when others are 30min in a lvl sync based gearing system ruin the group finder experience and results in everyone running the same flashpoints over and over again to maximize rewards.
Dark Lord Muad'Rautha Kallig - The Forcewalker -
The power to destroy a thing, is the absolute control over it.
DELAY THE EXPANSION

Voroschuk's Avatar


Voroschuk
12.01.2021 , 04:22 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Phaedruss View Post
.... Athiss...
The only thing that needs to be fixed in Athiss skip is that glitch where you fall through the floor and can't /stuck out of it, happens very often if you didn't execute the jump properly.
Quote: Originally Posted by Phaedruss View Post
flashpoints that take 10min when others are 30min in a lvl sync based gearing system ruin the group finder experience and results in everyone running the same flashpoints over and over again to maximize rewards.
True, but this can be addressed by providing better rewards for more difficult and longer FP and letting people play how they want at the same time. Even if everything will be "fixed" in the way you want it to be people will still spam HS: it's short, has almost 0 cutscenes, easy boss mechanics, and while the trash fights can be hard, if your group did well on the first corner pull you know this is going to be a smooth run.

Phaedruss's Avatar


Phaedruss
12.02.2021 , 08:59 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Voroschuk View Post
The only thing that needs to be fixed in Athiss skip is that glitch where you fall through the floor and can't /stuck out of it, happens very often if you didn't execute the jump properly.

True, but this can be addressed by providing better rewards for more difficult and longer FP and letting people play how they want at the same time. Even if everything will be "fixed" in the way you want it to be people will still spam HS: it's short, has almost 0 cutscenes, easy boss mechanics, and while the trash fights can be hard, if your group did well on the first corner pull you know this is going to be a smooth run.
You make some solid points.
I think a mix of fixing the really big exploits like checkpoint res, creating better rewards for bonuses, and what you've suggested would be a good way to make group finder more varied and create incentive to actually run them.
Dark Lord Muad'Rautha Kallig - The Forcewalker -
The power to destroy a thing, is the absolute control over it.
DELAY THE EXPANSION