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75 PVP - Group by valor


randalthorr

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I had a two year break and resubbed just over two months ago. I play for PvP (non ranked) and it's the only activity I do. Things seemed normal and fine to start with. Over the past two weeks, and I'm not sure why, except possibly the Priority Objectives causing it, an absolute ****ton of idiotic players have flooded PvP.

 

I lost 7 matches in a row last night and I almost never leave matches ever (playing on and off since launch day), except I ended up leaving almost every game yesterday; rather have a 15 minute lockout than spend 12 minutes on a losing game that just makes me frustrated.

 

Can we get some sort of Valor check and split PvP. If this is how it continues, that's fine, but it just ruins the only reason I sub for and I might just go back to other things.

 

What are other players' thoughts?

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First off. With Valor boosters and tokens being a login reward, Valor becomes a useless way to determine player competency. It’s not even a good indicator for ranked entry anymore.

 

The problem is the match making system they implemented in your absence is poorly thought out.

An example of how broken it is when it tries to average out sides by putting one good player to carry a bunch of noobs against a team of mediocre players. One person can’t be everywhere on the map, so it’s impossible to carry an 8 man side.

Or when it decides that your skills equal the best player in a premade and expects you to carry against them in a pug.

 

The match making is not configured correctly. I’ve been saying it from day one of it being implemented a few years ago now. But BioWare refuse to give us all the necessary details on how it works so we can not test it properly and theory craft where the problems with it are. If they released the data, maybe we could help them make it better. BioWare please come clean with how it works because your algorithm is rubbish as it is.

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That said, I've lost all faith BioWare would fix anything, so looks like I'll put up with my next two months of sub and assess from there regarding playing any further.

 

You’re not the first or the last that’s come to that conclusion or feels that way. It’s why we are bleeding out real pvp players faster than before 5.0 was released.

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Just to be clear, I don't mind losing. Some of the most fun games have been ones where we lost by a hairs breadth, but that just meant the teams were balanced.

 

My issue is with balance. Even the wins are boring, as most times its a steamroll either way and luck would have you on the right side.

 

I really miss the way the game was at launch. It was never going to last forever, but it was that nostalgia that made me resub.

 

Also, the PvP voiceovers for the map intros are atrocious and have been for a while. I miss the old Voidstar intro where it starts with the booming voice of, "This is Darth Marr of the Dark Council. Republic forces... ". :)

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First off. With Valor boosters and tokens being a login reward, Valor becomes a useless way to determine player competency. It’s not even a good indicator for ranked entry anymore.

 

I agree with Trixxie here.

 

With that being said, I would like to take the opportunity (since it was brought up), to get a valor level bump though and request that the devs at least consider implementing a valor vendor. A vendor where various items could be purchased based on level. At least valor would be worth something other than a title. :D

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First off. With Valor boosters and tokens being a login reward, Valor becomes a useless way to determine player competency. It’s not even a good indicator for ranked entry anymore.

 

.

 

Just to add, my main has valor 60+, but if I go into ranked, I'm a small fish in a big pond. I have tried it, and have done enough to earn the people decos, but if i was to try it now, you'd all be angry big fish :D

 

J

 

My issue is with balance. )

 

Balance is an issue in all pvp & gsf. Too many 'ranked equivalent' teams get together, while single teams of noobs are formed (gsf), and it's all one sided, this happens alot, despite what some people tell you.

Recently in a pvp match, 8 randoms got stuck against two groups of 'ranked' players from the same guild. all 8 were the same guild....needless to say, it was one sided

Edited by DarkTergon
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I almost exclusively play a Vengeance Jugg and get abused in ranked PvP everytime and accordingly, I do get melted straight away in arenas.

 

I stay away from ranked for this reason, and I am at Valor 95. I just can't make it work. Unranked is still fun and I enjoy playing objectives.

 

Also, Odessen needs to pop a whole lot more.

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I almost exclusively play a Vengeance Jugg and get abused in ranked PvP everytime and accordingly, I do get melted straight away in arenas.

 

I stay away from ranked for this reason, and I am at Valor 95. I just can't make it work. Unranked is still fun and I enjoy playing objectives.

.

 

A lot has to do with the spec, but also what gear set and tactical you choose for ranked. You could try switching to Rage Jugg and give it a go with Force Bound set and Grit Teeth tactical.

 

Of course if you are playing from Australia, you’ll have 220+ms ping and that alone can kill you because you’re dead before DCDs activate.

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I almost exclusively play a Vengeance Jugg and get abused in ranked PvP everytime and accordingly, I do get melted straight away in arenas.

 

I stay away from ranked for this reason, and I am at Valor 95. I just can't make it work. Unranked is still fun and I enjoy playing objectives.

 

Also, Odessen needs to pop a whole lot more.

 

And this is the point I was making earlier, you can't ascertain how good someone would be in ranked based on their Valor, and same as you, I said I stayed out of ranked, because of it, so I'm not causing issues to the ranked people, like losing elo, etc.

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Ironic coming from the one who…

 

…immediately believes everyone thinks they’re the bad guy because one person disagreed with them. Also, you can have a problem with whatever you want, but don’t pretend that the balance issues in this game can be overcome with a stiff upper lip and listening to your “git gud” philosophy.

 

I agree with your assessment. I do have a tendency to go on the offensive when disagreed with. For that, I apologize. I have always had a bull like personality which can be considered offensive at times. That is not always my intention but sometimes I think people misconstrue my blunt honesty as being offensive, especially when I disagree. I will work on my tack. :)

 

On the flip side, I am very passionate about SWTOR pvp. I have played many games and in the end, none compare imo. Are there flaws, yes, I am not oblivious to that but I do think that there are way more positives vs negatives.

 

I just wish there was less negativity in these pvp forums. It is a bad reflection on us, the players. We cannot, on one hand, nit pic every aspect of the venue while, on the other, wonder why numbers are down. Yes, while I do agree, the devs can contribute some but we as a player base have to do our part also.

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I almost exclusively play a Vengeance Jugg and get abused in ranked PvP everytime and accordingly, I do get melted straight away in arenas.

 

I stay away from ranked for this reason, and I am at Valor 95. I just can't make it work. Unranked is still fun and I enjoy playing objectives.

 

Also, Odessen needs to pop a whole lot more.

 

I have been working with Veng/Vig for the past two seasons. I have tried just about every gear set to no avail. If you can withstand the initial assault, they become viable. That is not an easy task though.

 

Grit Teeth is great for a shank, but becomes very tricky for a veng/vig jugg or guardian. I have found blowing it first, before all other defensive CD's can help. Your other defensive CD's may give it another chance to proc.

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There's no motive for people who are doing galactic seasons to win. They are there for the loss, and will move on afterwards to whatever they were doing before.

 

Instead of three Season points regardless of a win or a loss, they should give 3 points the first time you win a match for the day, and with no wins just give you one point for the day. Without providing a motive to be competitive, most people won't care. Weekly should be wins only.

 

I'm not even wagging my finger at those players, either. They're just playing the game that's in front of them.

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There's no motive for people who are doing galactic seasons to win. They are there for the loss, and will move on afterwards to whatever they were doing before.

 

Instead of three Season points regardless of a win or a loss, they should give 3 points the first time you win a match for the day, and with no wins just give you one point for the day. Without providing a motive to be competitive, most people won't care. Weekly should be wins only.

 

I'm not even wagging my finger at those players, either. They're just playing the game that's in front of them.

 

Umm, that’s a big NO to making it a win requirement.

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Umm, that’s a big NO to making it a win requirement.

 

If it's a no to a win requirement, then it's a yes to people who are there just to lose. Any talk or ideas about having matches that are more balanced and fun are pointless once you've enabled the losers.

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If it's a no to a win requirement, then it's a yes to people who are there just to lose. Any talk or ideas about having matches that are more balanced and fun are pointless once you've enabled the losers.

 

except you have good players that get stuck with new people, or people that are just there for the tokens, is it their fault the team loses. Or you have ranked players, who dominate unranked, and no matter how hard people try, they just can't win, or you have the cheats who use the different exploits, and again, no matter how good you are, one person can't carry a team. There are varying reasons why win only won't work. It's already damaged pvp (mission win only requirements) , to the point where they had to delete a bracket. GS, and the perceived 'coercion' to get people to play has revived it a bit, and it's popping more now, make it win only, and how long will it be before it dwindles back down to a trickle

Edited by DarkTergon
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I almost exclusively play a Vengeance Jugg and get abused in ranked PvP everytime and accordingly, I do get melted straight away in arenas.

 

Use the nimbe master set bonus in 4 dps ranked games. If you use your DCDs correctly, using ED first, and then the rest of your cds, you can and should be able to get to a second ED. Make sure to run to Africa when you use Saber Ward. Hide in a corner and out of combat heal if no one chases you. If you get a second ED, you will win the game 90% of the time.

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If it's a no to a win requirement, then it's a yes to people who are there just to lose. Any talk or ideas about having matches that are more balanced and fun are pointless once you've enabled the losers.

 

The incentive (in the form of rewards) for winning and trying needs to be higher is all. We already have a win requirement for missions and a lock out that’s supposed to stop people rage quitting and to make them try and win.

Neither of which were doing their jobs in the current format before GS was added.

The big stick approach just doesn’t work. At least it doesn’t in a vacuum

 

You also need to consider what the devs are trying to achieve with GS. Which is to get people playing parts of the game they wouldn’t usually. Ie BioWare are trying to buff numbers in pvp and GSF because the more people, the shorter the queue times and the more likely matchmaking will work better.

 

But if you start adding win requirements for GS pvp/GSF, all those people BioWare are trying to get to play that content will stop playing. Many don’t want to play it as it is. Can you imagine the screaming and toxicity in game and on the forums if wins were required for GS. I know I would never have stuck around to learn GSF the last 5 weeks if I had to win those games to advance GS.

 

You also need to realise that the game is bleeding pvp players again because BioWare have no money or possibly no inclination to fix pvp and other parts of the game or add more substantial new content. They are grasping at straws to try and repopulate parts of the game like pvp and GSF. They don’t have the luxury of adding a win requirement to GS because it would drive even more people away.

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The incentive (in the form of rewards) for winning and trying needs to be higher is all. We already have a win requirement for missions and a lock out that’s supposed to stop people rage quitting and to make them try and win.

Neither of which were doing their jobs in the current format before GS was added.

The big stick approach just doesn’t work. At least it doesn’t in a vacuum

 

You also need to consider what the devs are trying to achieve with GS. Which is to get people playing parts of the game they wouldn’t usually. Ie BioWare are trying to buff numbers in pvp and GSF because the more people, the shorter the queue times and the more likely matchmaking will work better.

 

But if you start adding win requirements for GS pvp/GSF, all those people BioWare are trying to get to play that content will stop playing. Many don’t want to play it as it is. Can you imagine the screaming and toxicity in game and on the forums if wins were required for GS. I know I would never have stuck around to learn GSF the last 5 weeks if I had to win those games to advance GS.

 

You also need to realise that the game is bleeding pvp players again because BioWare have no money or possibly no inclination to fix pvp and other parts of the game or add more substantial new content. They are grasping at straws to try and repopulate parts of the game like pvp and GSF. They don’t have the luxury of adding a win requirement to GS because it would drive even more people away.

 

This isn't the GS forum, and this isn't about GS. If you have the choice between waiting 1-2 hours for a GS pop, vs a 10 min pop with participation awards, then by all means, reward the losers.

 

But this is the PVP forum. The choice is a 1-3 minute pop, with losers getting rewarded, or a 5-10 minute pop that might actually have a chance at being a fun game. I'll take the wait, thank you very much.

 

"I need to consider...I need to realise....etc, ect." No, I really don't. I know that the major issue with pvp losing people over time, its the lack of quality matches. Loser incentives turn a fun activity into a chore, and the gamer mentality proves that. They'd rather be miserable in Hammer Station than play the rest of the game. Same thing with losing in warzones. They haven't figured out that Galactic Seasons is a joke, it's just a chore that they're going to do regardless. Happened before in 2.0/3.0 when people would lose as quickly as possible for comms, to deconstruct implants and relics for rare mats to put on the GTN. It will happen every time Bioware gives them a reason for losing a warzone.

 

You give players a reason to lose, and wow, what a shock, they lose, on purpose, and as quickly as possible.

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except you have good players that get stuck with new people, or people that are just there for the tokens, is it their fault the team loses. Or you have ranked players, who dominate unranked, and no matter how hard people try, they just can't win, or you have the cheats who use the different exploits, and again, no matter how good you are, one person can't carry a team. There are varying reasons why win only won't work. It's already damaged pvp (mission win only requirements) , to the point where they had to delete a bracket. GS, and the perceived 'coercion' to get people to play has revived it a bit, and it's popping more now, make it win only, and how long will it be before it dwindles back down to a trickle

 

You're saying that lowbie pvp was merged with midbie for the sole reason that somehow the win requirement on the daily and weekly made people stop pvping, and provide no evidence, and link it to GS. Logic isn't a game of leap frog.

 

It's much more accurate to say that the 6.0 gearing system created an enviroment that is alt unfriendly, specifically alts that aren't at max level yet. There was a time, 2.0 through 4.0, where leveling alts through pvp actually earned you comms to use at max level. These days, there's nothing. People used to pvp like mad on their lowbies, buying weapons and mounts and juggling the timers so they could refund their comms at max level and buy stuff for their mains and other max level characters. Their time wasn't wasted, they had fun and progressed at the same time.

 

Lets talk GS since the "losers get rewarded" crowd is so fixated on it. Without Galactic Seasons, players wouldn't be playing it, even after trying it. Why? No offense to the people who like it, but it's a less than average space combat sim. Every game has got its fans, but there are much better ways to scratch your space combat itch. There's better games out there, and some of them are free. Secondly, as I mentioned to Trixie, the GS pops were extremely long before Galactic Seasons. If the que wait was 1-2 hours before, and now they're 10 minutes, then that's fine. It revived a dead game mode, but people playing it doesn't mean it's fun. That's like a Dev saying "Wow, people sure love Hammer Station! The analytics say so! They just keep doing it over and over!" Nobody is saying "Wow, now that I've tried GS for real this time, I've lovin it!"

 

So congrats to GS for the analytical win. It's not a win though, is it? It's just people doing chores.

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You're saying that lowbie pvp was merged with midbie for the sole reason that somehow the win requirement on the daily and weekly made people stop pvping, and provide no evidence, and link it to GS. Logic isn't a game of leap frog.

 

It's much more accurate to say that the 6.0 gearing system created an enviroment that is alt unfriendly, specifically alts that aren't at max level yet. There was a time, 2.0 through 4.0, where leveling alts through pvp actually earned you comms to use at max level. These days, there's nothing. People used to pvp like mad on their lowbies, buying weapons and mounts and juggling the timers so they could refund their comms at max level and buy stuff for their mains and other max level characters. Their time wasn't wasted, they had fun and progressed at the same time.

 

Lets talk GS since the "losers get rewarded" crowd is so fixated on it. Without Galactic Seasons, players wouldn't be playing it, even after trying it. Why? No offense to the people who like it, but it's a less than average space combat sim. Every game has got its fans, but there are much better ways to scratch your space combat itch. There's better games out there, and some of them are free. Secondly, as I mentioned to Trixie, the GS pops were extremely long before Galactic Seasons. If the que wait was 1-2 hours before, and now they're 10 minutes, then that's fine. It revived a dead game mode, but people playing it doesn't mean it's fun. That's like a Dev saying "Wow, people sure love Hammer Station! The analytics say so! They just keep doing it over and over!" Nobody is saying "Wow, now that I've tried GS for real this time, I've lovin it!"

 

So congrats to GS for the analytical win. It's not a win though, is it? It's just people doing chores.

 

As an avid GSF player, I disagree with your assessment. Over the past few months, I’ve seen better matches than I’ve seen in a long time. Even before then, the quality of matches was consistently better than anything I’d seen in ground PvP. Pretty sure that’s because of the lack of a win requirement.

 

Yes, PvP pops are more plentiful. But the quality of matches is terrible. And part of it is the poor quality of rewards, but the win requirement figures into that. Being forced to win or suck eggs means that as soon as it looks like you’re losing, with nothing to look forward to even in defeat, what’s the point. At least with better rewards, people will be more inclined to have fun and to maybe try.

 

And you can go on and on about “rewarding losers” all you want. But rewarding people is how you get them to play. No reward, no effort.

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As an avid GSF player, I disagree with your assessment. Over the past few months, I’ve seen better matches than I’ve seen in a long time. Even before then, the quality of matches was consistently better than anything I’d seen in ground PvP. Pretty sure that’s because of the lack of a win requirement.

 

Yes, PvP pops are more plentiful. But the quality of matches is terrible. And part of it is the poor quality of rewards, but the win requirement figures into that. Being forced to win or suck eggs means that as soon as it looks like you’re losing, with nothing to look forward to even in defeat, what’s the point. At least with better rewards, people will be more inclined to have fun and to maybe try.

 

And you can go on and on about “rewarding losers” all you want. But rewarding people is how you get them to play. No reward, no effort.

 

No reward, no effort. No effort, no reward. Except gamer mentality dictates the least effort for the most reward. Hence Hammer Station. Hence afkers in pvp. Hence people giving up after the first score in Huttball. Hence people repeatedly crashing into asteroids in GSF.

 

Whatever system the Devs come up with, it's going to fail unless it takes into account gamer mentality. Winners need to obtain something the losers don't get, and it needs to be desirable enough to make the player want to win.

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You're saying that lowbie pvp was merged with midbie for the sole reason that somehow the win requirement on the daily and weekly made people stop pvping, .

 

I'm saying everything got f***ed up after that came in, the evidence was that pvp died badly, the queues stopped, pvp players cried, certain discord groups went nuts, etc, etc,

Hide your head in the sand all you like, but it went down hill for a while, the s**t was there to see, not my fault if you don't want to acknowledge it

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No reward, no effort. No effort, no reward. Except gamer mentality dictates the least effort for the most reward. Hence Hammer Station. Hence afkers in pvp. Hence people giving up after the first score in Huttball. Hence people repeatedly crashing into asteroids in GSF.

 

Whatever system the Devs come up with, it's going to fail unless it takes into account gamer mentality. Winners need to obtain something the losers don't get, and it needs to be desirable enough to make the player want to win.

 

I mean, I’m definitely not saying make the rewards for winning and losing equal to each other. But there should be something more than a hearty middle finger given in situations where people try and don’t win. Look at it this way: if you do everything right, put in all the effort, and spend hours actually trying, only to get the same reward as someone who goes afk, and that reward is piss poor, how much longer are you going to try?

 

Besides, if there are people who are only doing it for rewards, giving them those rewards faster gets them out of the queue faster.

 

The fact is, there are multiple problems with PvP as it stands, and they’ve been pointed out many, many times by people smarter and more experienced than me. The ‘win-only’ reward requirement is a part of it, and it needs to go.

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Valor isn't the way. What the devs need to do is just make this Galactic season tied to when you hit conquest - basically, do whatever the heck you want to hit conquest, and boom you have your GS done for the daily/weekly. Forcing folks into game content they do not wish to do is not the way to do it, it's never worked and the devs never learn.

 

This will then keep folks out of PVP and other aspects of the game that they do NOT want to do.

Edited by Ibokagain
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