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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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I trust (tentatively, at least) what they've said. I can imagine that trying to retroactively incorporate dialogue trees with companions could be a nightmare to code. You have to be able to rework the code so that it doesn't affect anyone who's already gone through the conversations, and they'd have to find all the spots where it's gender-flagged, rewrite that dialogue, record new dialogue, etc. And like someone brought up, there would be new conversations for the other companions (I wouldn't know, I haven't done a romance yet), and the programming might have unintended side-effects, like screwing with players that have already completed an OGR with the same companion.

 

But now that SG-flirts are in the game, I think it'd be a poor move for them to half-*ss it. They might as well just go all-in with it.

 

I just hope that they manage to get it worked on in a timely fashion. Part of why I'm so glad they've said what they did is that it gives me a reason to get my characters to level 50, instead of leaving them in a rest zone because I don't feel like playing them. And with the massive amounts of credits and legacy bonuses I'll have by the time SGRs are finally included, I'll be able to re-roll my characters and just plow through the game.

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I thought Hickman was pretty clear about the fact that they won't be.

 

Hickman just said it was delayed. Which could be anywhere from months to who knows how long. I'm still somewhat optimistic. They just make god awful PR decisions.

Edited by QwibQwib
typo
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I thought Hickman was pretty clear about the fact that they won't be.

 

Answer: First of all, I want to apologize that this is taking so long to get in the game. I realize that we promised SGR to you guys and that many of you believed that this would be with a companion character. Unfortunately, this will take a lot more work than we realized at the time and it (like some other pieces of content we talked about earlier in the year) has been delayed as we focused on the changes required to take the game Free-to-Play. As we have said in the past, allowing same gender romance is something we are very supportive of.

 

The first red passage is in Future I Progressive indicating something that will happen in the future. As opposed to Conditional (would) which indicates a possible, but not definite option.

The second one is in Present Perfect Simple.

 

Nowhere in the statement is any indication that SGRAs with companions are off the table. In fact in the Elder game segment of the blog post Mr. Hickman wrote that more content with companions will be coming (post Makeb) and I believe that it is likely that any change to existing companion dialog will happen at the same time.

Edited by Wittand
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The first red passage is in Future I Progressive indicating something that will happen in the future. As opposed to Conditional (would) which indicates a possible, but not definite option.

The second one is in Present Perfect Simple.

 

This has, quite possibly, made my week.

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Nowhere in the statement is any indication that SGRAs with companions are off the table. In fact in the Elder game segment of the blog post Mr. hickman wrote that more content with companions will be coming (post Makeb) and I believe that it is likely that any change to existing companion dialoge will happen at the same time.
I read that the same way.

 

I didn't get the notion that companion SGRs were off the table at all, just delayed. I know that "delayed" isn't really much, infowise, but it's too early too read anything more into that.

 

The statement also said "More info to come", the only topic in the State of the Game, by the way, that had that little footnote.

 

So I think we should be waiting for "more info" before we make any definite statements on what will or will not be coming, SGR wise.

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I tend to look at the SGR flirts coming as getting a foot in the door. BW taking a tentative step to see if there is some mass exodus from the game over this issue ( which I highly doubt will happen ) It is a sensitive issue, and they do have to be careful and i have no issues with it.

 

I'm choosing to be optimistic and hope that they will add more SGR content later. I also don't read anything in his statement to mean that it won't be added at some point.

 

^.^

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I tend to look at the SGR flirts coming as getting a foot in the door. BW taking a tentative step to see if there is some mass exodus from the game over this issue ( which I highly doubt will happen ) It is a sensitive issue, and they do have to be careful and i have no issues with it.
I don't really think that had anything to do with why we haven't gotten SGR yet. After all Mass Effect and Dragon Age were hugely successful and both had SGRs in them and everybody knew. If they'd feared a mass exodus, I don't think they would have announced SGRs as post-launch content from the beginning, as they would have shot themselves in the foot that way.

 

Time and money constraints, that's the only reason I can see, really. And I hope both will be a thing of the past, once this game gains more momentum and at the moment, it's not looking that bad for it.

Edited by Lent_San
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I just had a thought. I've seen people speculate whether they'll add new companions or add SGRAs to the old ones (if they're doing SGRAs for companions, and for everything that's sweet and good I hope they do), but wouldn't they have to bring back the old VAs regardless? For the people already in a romance with the old companions, I mean. You'd need the "jealousy scenes" or confrontations. Unless they have them break up via mail, make it a "You can't have me unless you're single" type thing, or ignore the old companions like the new one magically isn't even there. That would make me sad/irritated. I'd have to re-roll my agent again since I'm stuck in eternal romance with the creepy Raina Temple :/

 

Tell me if I'm jumping too wildly to conclusions, or if I'm missing something.

 

In any case, I'm personally fine with either new companions (as in both one male and one female for all of the separate classes) or the old ones. Secretly pining for Vector. As long as they won't go with the one-size-fits-all as with HK. I'd prefer something of actual equality.

 

I apologise if it's been mentioned before and if so, I somehow missed it.

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I read that the same way.

 

I didn't get the notion that companion SGRs were off the table at all, just delayed. I know that "delayed" isn't really much, infowise, but it's too early too read anything more into that.

 

The statement also said "More info to come", the only topic in the State of the Game, by the way, that had that little footnote.

 

So I think we should be waiting for "more info" before we make any definite statements on what will or will not be coming, SGR wise.

 

/shrug Take what you want from it. I thought it was pretty clear. I'd bet my house that you will never see Same Gender romances with your companions. "oh this is like really hard and stuff" and "delayed" are pretty obvious Developer speak for "we don't wanna".

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Anyone who plays games such as SWTOR, WoW, EVE etc. doesn't have any right whatsoever to dislike the addition of SGR. When you play games with so many different people, from different cultures, with different things they want out of a game, with different playstyles, different personalities, there is really no point in caring about the opinion of some idiot who has gotten lost in the internet and doesn't know how MMO communities work. For goodness sakes, I have a guy in my guild who does drugs every weekend at big party events, he's also a vegetarian, and a mormon. Does anyone care? No, they have no right. Does everyone know this? Yes. So what's the big fuss about being scared people will leave just because of SGR? Those people are fools who shouldn't be on the internet in the first place.
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/shrug Take what you want from it. I thought it was pretty clear. I'd bet my house that you will never see Same Gender romances with your companions. "oh this is like really hard and stuff" and "delayed" are pretty obvious Developer speak for "we don't wanna".

 

"It's really hard" and "delayed" are also what they said about hood toggles. And we know those are still coming, because they gave us hide head slot for companions, which was a direct byproduct of the effort to code a hood toggle, and thus clear evidence that they're legitimately working on it. What they said about Guild Ships, on the other hand, was "sorry, we're no longer doing this in the forseeable future."

 

I mean, I'm not holding my breath for anything in the next twelve calendar months, but I see no evidence of weaselspeak in the current regime. They don't tell us spit, but on the rare occasion that they let some meager tidbit slip they don't appear to lie.

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Long-time lurker here. Just want to say glad you guys are finally getting your turn for developments. I'm a straight, white male, and SGR is a staple in some of the other BW games. I usually don't part-take in it myself, but you guys definitely deserve some good news.

 

Hope you get companions soon! :)

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Nice to see a game rated T for Teens turn to this gay romance game because...hey sims 3 has it. I don't know about you but I don't want my son exposed to SGR.

 

Then don't let him play. Your parenting decisions are your responsibility, not EA/BW:A's.

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Tell me if I'm jumping too wildly to conclusions, or if I'm missing something.

In any case, I'm personally fine with either new companions (as in both one male and one female for all of the separate classes) or the old ones. Secretly pining for Vector. As long as they won't go with the one-size-fits-all as with HK. I'd prefer something of actual equality.

Yeah, you know, that's definitely an issue and might be the reason why we haven't gotten SGR with companions yet. Maybe this is what they meant when they said things turned out more complicated than expected. I do hope, a little further down the road, we'll be getting SGR with new companions and at least a few of the old ones. :rolleyes: They just need to find a way how you can actually break up with someone. Or tell us, flat out, that we'd have to reroll.

 

/shrug Take what you want from it. I thought it was pretty clear. I'd bet my house that you will never see Same Gender romances with your companions. "oh this is like really hard and stuff" and "delayed" are pretty obvious Developer speak for "we don't wanna".
We'll see. Don't give up just yet. ;)

 

When you play games with so many different people, from different cultures, with different things they want out of a game, with different playstyles, different personalities, there is really no point in caring about the opinion of some idiot who has gotten lost in the internet and doesn't know how MMO communities work. .
Unfortunately, out there are a lot of ignorant fools who like to pretend they're in the vast majority with everything they do and lack curiousity or downright tolerance to be able to see how many other people are inherently different to them and like different things. In the words of Monty Python "We're all individuals". ;)

 

They don't tell us spit, but on the rare occasion that they let some meager tidbit slip they don't appear to lie.
Yep, I do agree, so far at least, that's been the case.

 

Long-time lurker here. Just want to say glad you guys are finally getting your turn for developments. I'm a straight, white male, and SGR is a staple in some of the other BW games. I usually don't part-take in it myself, but you guys definitely deserve some good news.

Hope you get companions soon! :)

Thanks! :) Edited by Lent_San
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I agree that it would be nice that he used words like 'delayed' instead of 'cancelled' except for the fact that he also said it would be way harder to implement them than they thought, when the reality is all you have to do is get rid of the gender check, clean up the occasional pronoun, add the character's voice (the LI's voice is obviously already in the game) and there it is. There isn't anything hard about it. Someone mentioned 'jealousy scenes', obviously thats something they could add if they wanted to but arent the least bit necessary to the romance itself. If you romance somebody, you romance them, it doesn't 'have' to relate to any other character, of course those scenes are always fun to see, just like its always nice to have your gender/race mentioned by somebody in the game, but its not actually necessary. If they added the romances to the game, then said 'going back and adding in jealousy scenes will be hard, we're going to delay that', then that would make sense, and better still it would actually be true, unlike what he actually did say which wasn't the slightest bit true.

 

The bottom line is that he put in a gender check specificly so we couldn't play these romances, and now he's pretending its 'really really hard' to get rid of it, when in reality he just doesn't want to. Why would he? He put it in for a reason, he doesn't want to get rid of it for the same reason he put it in in the first place. Because he doesn't like this sort of content, and doesn't want it in his game. The only way to overcome that is with enough pressure so that he would rather have it in his game than continue to be annoyed by people asking for it. If somehow a couple of flirt options with NPCs on a planet you have to be level 50 to reach satisifies enough people and they don't keep asking for what we rightly should have, and were promised, then he wins, and he keeps them out forever. Its as simple as that. Hopefully that isn't what happens, I know for my part I'm going to keep asking for what we were promised, and for what virtually every modern game now has, the ability to romance any LI you like, and I hope everybody else will also.

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Nice to see a game rated T for Teens turn to this gay romance game because...hey sims 3 has it. I don't know about you but I don't want my son exposed to SGR.

 

does your son not have permission to play the sims, either? granted age restricts are just something people can 'walk around' with anyway, but I kinda have my own opinion about people being fine with shooting people, having threesomes with the widow of someone you just beheaded... but all of a sudden a little [flirt] trigger is some kind of a big deal.

 

 

I'm strangley reminded of the parents(!) making a big deal about Ballad of Gay Tony....:rolleyes:

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I agree that it would be nice that he used words like 'delayed' instead of 'cancelled' except for the fact that he also said it would be way harder to implement them than they thought, when the reality is all you have to do is get rid of the gender check, clean up the occasional pronoun, add the character's voice (the LI's voice is obviously already in the game) and there it is. There isn't anything hard about it. Someone mentioned 'jealousy scenes', obviously thats something they could add if they wanted to but arent the least bit necessary to the romance itself. If you romance somebody, you romance them, it doesn't 'have' to relate to any other character, of course those scenes are always fun to see, just like its always nice to have your gender/race mentioned by somebody in the game, but its not actually necessary. If they added the romances to the game, then said 'going back and adding in jealousy scenes will be hard, we're going to delay that', then that would make sense, and better still it would actually be true, unlike what he actually did say which wasn't the slightest bit true.

 

The bottom line is that he put in a gender check specificly so we couldn't play these romances, and now he's pretending its 'really really hard' to get rid of it, when in reality he just doesn't want to. Why would he? He put it in for a reason, he doesn't want to get rid of it for the same reason he put it in in the first place. Because he doesn't like this sort of content, and doesn't want it in his game. The only way to overcome that is with enough pressure so that he would rather have it in his game than continue to be annoyed by people asking for it. If somehow a couple of flirt options with NPCs on a planet you have to be level 50 to reach satisifies enough people and they don't keep asking for what we rightly should have, and were promised, then he wins, and he keeps them out forever. Its as simple as that. Hopefully that isn't what happens, I know for my part I'm going to keep asking for what we were promised, and for what virtually every modern game now has, the ability to romance any LI you like, and I hope everybody else will also.

 

The problem is that SWTOR is an MMOrpg. If this were a standalone game then indeed they could remove the gender checks, do some VA, and release a patch.

But. This isn't a standalone game. Nor a standalone game with multiplayer options. This is an online game. Live at that.

They can't just go back and change these options. It would likely bug everyone's progress with their companions in the process. The same goes for NPCs. They can't just change those. It'll have different effects for people who've done the quests, are in the middle of the quests and those who have completed it. And these conversations and quests can't just be reset either. And the idea of some item resetting it, is also nearly impossible. It can be coded, but the consequences and bugs as a result cannot be overseen.

 

The problem with SWTOR is that SGR could've easily been in at launch without much difficulty or high costs. Instead someone made the poor call to not do it. At an executive level maybe they thought like most do here that it would be easy to implement, but are now realising that it's not an easy task, but an incredibly difficult one. They'd be facing possible bugs for almost every quest and conversation. That's an impossible task.

 

The only thing that can reasonably be done is adding new companions the way HK51 has been added with VA for the earlier planets included. Additional quests can be added on the core planets with NPCs that are available for SGR.

 

Your game, your character and progress, are on the server. This isn't a standalone game. It's coded differently. It's not something that can be fixed easily.

 

Additionally, to implement such a patch for the millions of account toons that are the servers, they'd have to take the servers down for days, not just hours. Adding new content, some new code to add new FPs, WZs or Planets already takes 4hrs for a small patch, and 8hrs for a big patch. Now imagine them recoding it all, and making changes to save games. That's a task that'll take days, and sorry folks, just not realistic. I would love to see it. But realistically it's nearly impossible. At this point in time I'd rather see them spend time on some new SGR companions. That can be a content patch done in an 8hr server downtime. Development won't take much longer than redoing the previous companions, and it'd be something new for everyone. Yes it'd be the "SGR companion", whatever. It's something that'd get me through the 50 levels for a toon before I reach the new content that will be inclusive.

Edited by fabiyun
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I have to decide whether to play a girl or to romance a girl, and it's really tough picking just one or the other. Maybe I'll just go play Mass Effect. :(

 

I feel the same, though I refuse to do any of the female romances I want with a male PC character out of principle. I feel it just sends a message "Hey, it's cool there are no SGRAs...I'll just roll a male toon to do the female romance options I like".

 

I've decided to turn all my current female toons into "players" suffering from unrequited love for now, since they can at least flirt with (assuming) multiple female NPCs in Makeb.

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Nice to see a game rated T for Teens turn to this gay romance game because...hey sims 3 has it. I don't know about you but I don't want my son exposed to SGR.

 

Believe it or not, Same Gender and Opposite Gender romance have absolutely Zero bearing on the ESRB Rating of a game. It's strictly for the Romance only. (This clarification is listed earlier in this thread; you can find it if you really look for it.)

 

So what are you going to do if your son is exposed to this situation in the "Real World" as school? Just hide your head in the sand and hope it goes away? Or will you talk to him about it and explain your feelings and how think he should deal with it?

 

As others have mentioned in this thread, It's not up to EA or Bioware to parent your children, that's entirely up to you.

Seems to me, SGR being added to game would be an excellent time for you to talk to your child about it.

 

On a side note, Most Teen level children are already completely aware of what Homosexuality is and most likely already know at least one person who is. Since your Son plays this game, we can safely assume that he is at least 13 right?

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The only thing that can reasonably be done is adding new companions the way HK51 has been added with VA for the earlier planets included. Additional quests can be added on the core planets with NPCs that are available for SGR.

Sounds reasonable, event though I'm still unwilling to give up hope yet they'll be doing something with old companions eventually. To have to level to 50 to be able to experience SGR forever sounds too half-assed to me. *crosses fingers*

 

Has there been any update or ETA on when same gender romances will be implemented? Sorry but i just don't have the will power to look through 500 pages of thread :S
The new expansion Rise of the Hutt Cartel will bring SGR romance/flirting options for the Makeb planet. ETA is said to be spring. Unfortunately no companion romances as of yet, but they may be coming at a later time.

 

Friendly reminder, guys, real life topics are not allowed on this board. Do yourself a favor, just ignore those trolls.

Edited by Lent_San
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