Outside of 1v1 Operatives are not overpowered. They aren't dps'ing while they run away and heal.

The counters are simple - stuns, roots slows, net, and dots and aoe to knock them out of stealth.

Seeing as most teams have 3 or 4 mercs/mando's with that freaking net, ops are not hard to counter at all.

Is there one? From what I've seen lately, all they have to do is hit, run, heal, repeat. I'm sure there's a method that has to be learned to do it efficiently, but it seems that's the typical method of engagement. Rather than complaining, I'd like to know if anyone has any reliable counter-strategies to this. If there isn't one, why?

Ask a skilled oper friend to duel you. Even if you lose 50 times out of 50 , your knowledge about what to do vs opers will be a lot better than it is now. And In wazones not all opers are skilled. some can be killed easily while others are challenging and skilled ones like snave will troll you forever - best to be avoided.

I'm pretty good on mine, but no where near as good as players like Kiss and Snave who main their Operatives. Here's some tips I can offer you from my experience:

If you get into a 1v1 with an Operative, run toward your team for help. You're not going to win the fight unless they are terrible. If you are guarding an objective and can't run, focus as much as you can on keeping yourself alive until help arrives (assuming you called for it). Use your CC not to do more DPS in a 1v1 you'll end up losing, but to heal yourself and buy more time for help to arrive. If you have an anti-focus DCD, such as a reflect, learn when to use it to the greatest effect against an Operative. Knockbacks are also very useful because all Operatives are melee or hybrid melee, but LoS them when you do so that they can't Holotraverse right back to you. If they heal on their way back to you, so what. All you're trying to do is stall them as long as possible until someone comes to help you.

If you're node guarding, don't stand right on top of the objective, and don't blow your CC breaker on the first stun. They will usually sleep dart you from stealth, and will almost always have Flashbang up to CC you again. Don't make it easy on them by standing right on top of the node, which will allow them to cap before the CC wears off, or you'll be forced to use your CC breaker, only to be CC'd again at which point they'll have enough time to cap again. Also, be sure you are using your AoEs and/or stealth detection probes liberally if you have them. Make them work for it. You'd be surprised how many times I've caught an Operative or Assassin in stealth with my probes.

If you're trying to take a node guarded by a competent Operative, you will not succeed if it's 1v1. Period. Don't waste time trying, unless it's a really terrible Operative. If you bring backup, remember that LoS is their friend. They will roll and run around every obstacle available to deny you DPS while healing themselves. This will go on and on and on if you let it, and I've seen as many as 4 players trying (unsuccessfully) to kill an Operative who's using the dais for LoS in Yavin or Civil War. Instead, make them come to you and force them to lose their LoS advantage. You and your friends should be AoEing near the node and spam capping. When you do so, don't bunch up. Be on different sides of the node when you cap, that way they won't be able to interrupt all of you with a single ability like Noxious Knives. The idea is that they will not be able to roll away to heal if they are trying to stop 2-3 people from capping the node, and as long as you're not playing his game and trying to pursue him, you'll succeed.

Electronet. If there is a Merc/Mando nearby (or you're playing one), and there's no higher priority target (such as a healer), that Merc/Mando should be using their Enet on the Operative at all times, especially good ones. Nothing ruins their day faster when they can't stealth or roll. Enet is the bane of all Operatives more so than any other class.

The moment you see one stealth out, spam AoE in the direction they were facing. Most will not change direction and will run directly away in whatever direction they were facing at the time they stealthed. If you pop one out of stealth, they are in trouble. DoTs can be an effective tool for preventing stealth, but good Operatives will cleanse right before they stealth, so YMMV. In fact, I knew one a few years back who used a keyboard macro that would pop his Toxic Scan whenever he used Cloaking Screen (he doesn't play the game anymore).

Lastly, If you see a particularly good Operative like Kiss or Snave, be sure you are communicating with your team about their position. If they are spotted at Snow on Civil War, for example, that might mean Grass or Mid will be easier to steal.

Hope that helps.

Lastly, If you see a particularly good Operative like Kiss or Snave, be sure you are communicating with your team about their position

Then grab you ankles and brace

Then grab you ankles and brace

I've actually killed Kiss twice in a 1v1 while I was on a non-Operative. It was extremely difficult, and each time it took several minutes of relentless pursuit, but she had it coming. That's twice out of the innumerable times I've played against her (although I've grouped with her quite a lot too). I don't believe I've ever killed Snave 1v1 (and I wouldn't try).

 

The counters are simple - stuns, roots slows, net, and dots and aoe to knock them out of stealth.

 

The counters are simple, but applying them in combat effectively are not. A good ops can avoid death from one enemy indefinitely and an awesome ops can do it versus multiple enemies. That's just the facts.

Their toolkit when maximized enables them to do this and all the "counters" you mention can be circumvented or diminished to have little impact especially in 8v8s when the map is huge and your team is not coordinated to pin them down and work together to kill them.

I'm pretty good on mine, but no where near as good as players like Kiss and Snave who main their Operatives. Here's some tips I can offer you from my experience:

...

Hope that helps.

Wow, what an unexpectedly comprehensive response. Thank you. And thanks to all of the other responders. It's so odd that one class can be so uniquely problematic, but this is the game we have.

I don't believe I've ever killed Snave 1v1 (and I wouldn't try).

I'm terrible 1v1.

Wow, what an unexpectedly comprehensive response. Thank you. And thanks to all of the other responders. It's so odd that one class can be so uniquely problematic, but this is the game we have.

They're only problematic if you're trying to 1v1 them in a vacuum. If you're defending and call for help when the operative appears then you shouldn't be having a 1v1. If there's a decent operative defending it's largely pointless to attack with 1 so you need overlap with enough momentum to cause the enemy team to mess their distribution in the scramble.

Most of the problems people have with operatives are because they play entirely into the operatives strength and the scratch their head why it didn't work.

They're only problematic if you're trying to 1v1 them in a vacuum.

That, to me at least, is the essence of the problem. Why one class in particular should be utterly dominant in 1v1, irrespective of player skill, seems antithetical to the ethos of pvp. But like I said, this is the game we have and it's not going to change. Strategies that involve delaying and bringing in extra players to bring one player down are apparently the only strategies that we have.

That situation only occurs in duels. There is no other game mode that allows you extended 1v1 time with no interruptions. If you attack an operative on the off node 1v1 then you're electing to enter their strongest type of gameplay and you're complaining about your own bad decision. Delaying and bringing in another player is a neutral move assuming equal distribution so your team isn't penalised for it, to me most of the complaints about operatives are founded in players choosing to take them on in the least favourable conditions possible and then complaining they didn't win.

Why can't operatives have DCD's that allow them to DPS at the same time as staying alive? Why do I have to run away to live when other classes don't? Why can't I do the same damage as snipers? Why don't I have guard? Why can't I out heal healers? Because those aren't the strengths of the class.

If the problem you have is operatives are good at duels, then don't duel operatives.

That situation only occurs in duels. There is no other game mode that allows you extended 1v1 time with no interruptions. If you attack an operative on the off node 1v1 then you're electing to enter their strongest type of gameplay and you're complaining about your own bad decision. Delaying and bringing in another player is a neutral move assuming equal distribution so your team isn't penalised for it, to me most of the complaints about operatives are founded in players choosing to take them on in the least favourable conditions possible and then complaining they didn't win.

 

Why can't operatives have DCD's that allow them to DPS at the same time as staying alive? Why do I have to run away to live when other classes don't? Why can't I do the same damage as snipers? Why don't I have guard? Why can't I out heal healers? Because those aren't the strengths of the class.

 

If the problem you have is operatives are good at duels, then don't duel operatives.

1v1 encounters occur frequently in wzs, and I think you know that. And they occur frequently when help isn't available. To say that you should simply avoid the encounter because you have no chance of winning is to admit that a significant portion of the game is imbalanced. For those that make their fun exploiting this imbalance, I can see how pointing out this glaring and irrefutable fact is possibly upsetting, but I wouldn't let it cloud your critical faculties. No one is going to take away your situational advantage. You've had it for this long and it's not going away. But suggesting that you should simply avoid 1v1 engagements simply because you have no chance isn't an argument that bolsters the notion that the game is fairly balanced.

1v1 encounters occur frequently in wzs, and I think you know that. And they occur frequently when help isn't available.

Help is always available. People not coming to help you is a team problem, not an operative problem. In that situation, anyone who is better than you 1v1 will cap.

To say that you should simply avoid the encounter because you have no chance of winning is to admit that a significant portion of the game is imbalanced. For those that make their fun exploiting this imbalance, I can see how pointing out this glaring and irrefutable fact is possibly upsetting, but I wouldn't let it cloud your critical faculties.

This isn't a significant portion of the game. It's a fraction of some maps in regs and it's only a factor when your team doesn't help. The fact you're using this hyperbole shows how desperate you are to try and make a point that simply doesn't exist. There will always be a class that's strongest at any specific thing you want to label, assassins were the kings of 1v1 for a very long time and it was possible to play around them but much like wasting DPS on a guarded healer isn't the optimum play neither was playing into the assassins strengths.

No one is going to take away your situational advantage. You've had it for this long and it's not going away. But suggesting that you should simply avoid 1v1 engagements simply because you have no chance isn't an argument that bolsters the notion that the game is fairly balanced.

Situational? I thought you just said it was a significant portion! Avoiding 1v1 vs a class that has an advantage is common sense. Much like if there's a sorc defending the node correctly I won't bother, or a PT, or a competent team that actually calls and responds. This isn't operative exclusive buddy but it doesn't really sound like you understand how it works to begin with.

Help is always available. People not coming to help you is a team problem, not an operative problem. In that situation, anyone who is better than you 1v1 will cap. If your team is UNABLE to respond it's because they're under too much pressure despite the operative from their team attacking the offnode giving your team a player advantage. If you're unable to deal with the pressure minus one player you're likely going to lose regardless and likely to lose the other node if the player did return to apply even more pressure there.

Being decent at 1v1 is an Opers thing but it takes time for them so only really applicable in Duels. In pvp there is no point to go into 1v1 with oper, its just waste of time ...

Many classes can beat Opers tho, namely Mercs, Snipers, happens for Maras too.

Also it takes some skill to play well.

 

Many classes can beat Opers tho, namely Mercs, Snipers, happens for Maras too.

Also it takes some skill to play well.

Exactly, It takes many to actually beat an operative. If you want to kill an operative, bring friends.

Only way someone beats an operative solo is with help or because the operative is incompetent and/or under the influence of some mind altering substance that inhibits them from playing properly.

Being decent at 1v1 is an Opers thing but it takes time for them so only really applicable in Duels. In pvp there is no point to go into 1v1 with oper, its just waste of time ...

 

Many classes can beat Opers tho, namely Mercs, Snipers, happens for Maras too.

Also it takes some skill to play well.

Carnage and Anni are not being a Operative 1v1 unless that Operative let's them kill them. Even Fury with it's passive anti-cc with Force Crush [Gravity Vortex] is unlikely to beat an Operative 1v1 for the simply fact that it is rather hard to hit people that you cannot see and who can staby staby you for 24 seconds in between Gravity Vortex's CD.

Given perma-stealth, you are not always going to be given the opportunity not to fight a Operative 1v1. They tend not to ask permission first. When they can follow you around and you not know it and they can pick their time and place, if they want to fight 1v1, if they are patient enough, it will be 1v1 unless you are just lucky and some friends happen by.

I do agree, even in WZs you will sometimes fight people 1v1, It's not even really all that uncommon.

I understand the frustration some people feel over Operative's clear advantages in 1v1, but really, when you stop and thing about where their strengths lie [cc, perma-stealth, heals and dps] it really makes a great deal of sense that they would be the favored victor. That's what stealth classes are built for.

Operatives have been the Kings and Queens of duels for quite a long time, that's just their gig and at this point it really shouldn't come as much of a surprise. Unless you are playing the class that are the best at dueling, it really wouldn't matter which class was the best at it because whoever it is, you're still going to lose that duel.

Lastly, there really isn't any shame in losing a duel [or 1v1] to an Operative, it isn't s sign of lack of skill on the losers part, that's just what Operatives excel at and are built for.

Exactly, It takes many to actually beat an operative. If you want to kill an operative, bring friends.

 

Only way someone beats an operative solo is with help or because the operative is incompetent and/or under the influence of some mind altering substance that inhibits them from playing properly.

You're all literally talking about duelling during a warzone. The only reason that happens is because

a) You're bad and can't call incoming in which case you lose vs any player that's better than you or

b) Your team is bad and doesn't respond to calls in which case you lose vs any player that's better than you.

If you're attacking the offnode with an operative defender 1v1 then you're

a) playing a bit silly if you know you'll lose

b) the situation is still silly if the defender can call for help

c) literally a burden to your team

Only game mode operatives are the best at is duels, which isn't a game mode and only happens in warzones if multiple other things go wrong for you. There will always be a class that's better at 1v1s, if you nerf operatives then replace this whole conversation with whatever other class takes over that role.

This conversation is a tremendous insight into the current state of regs in this game.

You're all literally talking about duelling during a warzone. The only reason that happens is because

 

a) You're bad and can't call incoming in which case you lose vs any player that's better than you or

b) Your team is bad and doesn't respond to calls in which case you lose vs any player that's better than you.

 

If you're attacking the offnode with an operative defender 1v1 then you're

 

a) playing a bit silly if you know you'll lose

b) the situation is still silly if the defender can call for help

c) literally a burden to your team

 

Only game mode operatives are the best at is duels, which isn't a game mode and only happens in warzones if multiple other things go wrong for you. There will always be a class that's better at 1v1s, if you nerf operatives then replace this whole conversation with whatever other class takes over that role.

 

This conversation is a tremendous insight into the current state of regs in this game.

I said something similar in my response above. It wouldn't matter which class was the best at 1v1's if you're not that class, you are going to lose all the same.

I would however say, or rather suggest, that it is not always up to someone whether or not they get forced into a 1v1 with an Operative, because if they catch you in transit and you are alone and they are in stealth they can force you into it.

But if you are attacking an enemy node and you don't see the defender and you are alone, you're asking for trouble and when that Operative pops out of stealth and you're stunned, you brought that on yourself.

Even in WZs it's not all that uncommon to find yourself fighting someone alone from time to time, it isn't even something that is always intentional, sometimes you just come wipping around the corner and you run smack dab right into an enemy player while you were in transit from point A to B. OPG is a good example, you never know what you're going to run into when you turn that corner. So even with the best of intentions, 1v1's do happen from time to time.

You're all literally talking about duelling during a warzone. The only reason that happens is because

 

a) You're bad and can't call incoming in which case you lose vs any player that's better than you or

b) Your team is bad and doesn't respond to calls in which case you lose vs any player that's better than you.

 

If you're attacking the offnode with an operative defender 1v1 then you're

 

a) playing a bit silly if you know you'll lose

b) the situation is still silly if the defender can call for help

c) literally a burden to your team

 

Only game mode operatives are the best at is duels, which isn't a game mode and only happens in warzones if multiple other things go wrong for you. There will always be a class that's better at 1v1s, if you nerf operatives then replace this whole conversation with whatever other class takes over that role.

 

This conversation is a tremendous insight into the current state of regs in this game.

This is like saying cancer only occurs due to circumstances you could have avoided. Sometimes you end up in circumstances that are out of your control you simply can't avoid all operative confrontations in the WZs considering how popular a class it is.

Even in WZs part of the deal is sometimes people don't come to help you on a node when you have an ops greeting you to take your node or when you head to try to take a node when mid isn't happening and an op is guarding.

I don't think anyone mentioned they need nerfed. He just asked how to counter them and people responded (even you) with real talk.

You don't "counter" them unless they are a bad player or you have a team which has a clue. That's just how it is, for better or worse. I don't think they need nerfed they fill an interesting niche in PVP on this game.

Help is always available. People not coming to help you is a team problem, not an operative problem. In that situation, anyone who is better than you 1v1 will cap.

No, help isn't always available. Given two equally skilled players, the operative will win the cap (ie. it's an operative problem). You admitted this yourself.

This isn't a significant portion of the game. It's a fraction of some maps in regs and it's only a factor when your team doesn't help. The fact you're using this hyperbole shows how desperate you are to try and make a point that simply doesn't exist.

Yes, it is a significant portion of the game, particularly if you stay out of cancerous ranked (where, coincidentally, operatives and their range of escapes, stuns, mezzes, and burst makes them extremely viable, unlike many other classes, but let's stick to the topic at hand). The fact that you have to resort to a cop-out like accusing me of hyperbole tells me that you are willfully blind to an imbalance that is glaringly obvious to everyone but yourself.

There will always be a class that's strongest at any specific thing you want to label, assassins were the kings of 1v1 for a very long time and it was possible to play around them but much like wasting DPS on a guarded healer isn't the optimum play neither was playing into the assassins strengths.

I don't know who you're trying to convince, me or you. You can cop-out to the flowery notion of "every special snowflake has their place", but I'm not buying it and I doubt many other people are. Playing around a class (as you cited with the assassins of old) isn't a solution, it's an adaptation borne out of imbalance.

Situational? I thought you just said it was a significant portion! Avoiding 1v1 vs a class that has an advantage is common sense. Much like if there's a sorc defending the node correctly I won't bother, or a PT, or a competent team that actually calls and responds. This isn't operative exclusive buddy but it doesn't really sound like you understand how it works to begin with.

Situational doesn't mean insignificant. Your attempt to devolve this into semantic minutia isn't going to distract me from the issue. Now I can see that you're getting increasingly agitated that your attempts to defend your chosen class' advantage are not resonating, but there's no need to let it come to that. Coming to terms with reality doesn't make you a lesser player. Who knows, maybe you could carry a dps jugg or dps pt to a high solo rank, maybe you're just that good. But references to alternate situations where my team always comes at my beck and call and aren't preoccupied defending or capturing another node are just another cop-out. Any 1v1 encounter should give a reasonably skilled player a chance to win the encounter. The irony of all this is that I really wasn't looking to make a thread about class imbalance. As I've stated elsewhere, pvp balance is an afterthought in this game. My intention was to explore ways that people adapt to imbalanced situations. Why you felt the need to come in and defend your class like you were defending your honour is down to you.

As I said before, I'm grateful to those that posted useful responses that help mitigate situations where people find themselves at at disadvantage.

Your use of large words has convinced me. Sorry I tried to explain, I'll let you all get back to fearing the deadly operative duel in warzones.

Yes, I knew that they would. Thanks for your contribution.

Your use of large words has convinced me. Sorry I tried to explain, I'll let you all get back to fearing the deadly operative duel in warzones.

#NerfOps

Most warzones have 2 nodes, and 8 players. 1v1 should not happen regularly.

Op ambushes you? CC, stun, slow jthem and run to the node where your other teammates should be. If they're all fighting off-node, that's another problem.

Your team owns two nodes? Never have less than 2 guards per node. Ditto on voidstar. Don't wait for a call, make sure there's always at least 2 people per door.

1v1 in regular warzones is a result of people not playing correctly.

Now, if you're playing against a team with 3 or 4 ops on it - yeah, that's annoying. Still not as annoying as a team with 3 or 4 mercs all netting you when you're the op, though.