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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


Clouderino's Avatar


Clouderino
08.28.2019 , 11:50 PM | #9681
People wonder why there aren't any tanks in queue anymore.

So it's around midnight and I decide I'm going to finish up my Galactic Conflicts weekly. So I hope in queue and after a few minutes, boom I get a pop. Athiss MM. So in my head I'm thinking, cool this should be quick. The lineup includes,

Me > Level 70 Guardian
Level 70 Slinger
Level 70 Sent
Level 67 Sage Healer

The sentinel and slinger had decent 230ish gear, Sentinel had his set bonus not sure about the slinger. On the other head, our Sage (who's also healing) is so undergeared that even with the bolster he was still incredibly weak.

Anyway, Flashpoint starts. It goes well and uneventful until the first boss, I still noticed that the healer was hardly healing when the adds were doing damage but didn't say anything. First boss goes by, and oh my god I was barely healed throughout the whole thing. The only reason I didn't die is because I was using my medpacs, adrenals and cooldowns throughout the entire fight.

I roll my eyes and decide to roll with it, I've dealt with worse in Group Finder. As we go through the adds to the next boss, the healer and the slinger start flaming me in group chat. Typical, blame the Tank for everything. I ignore it and keep trying to clear the trash. I still noticed the DPS and heals were really weak, but didn't say anything.

As we're clearing trash, I have to take a second to pick something up my cat knocked off of my desk. I reach over to pick it up, thinking that nobody's going to pull before me. Big mistake. The sage pulls, leading him to die as a result. He and the slinger immediately start to flame me even harder, telling me to learn to taunt, etc.

Finally, we get to the second boss. I tank him in the usual spot as I always do, however my "Move Left" key got jammed and I accidentally moved out of it. Immediately got called a ******* because I got knocked back out of the spot, even though I got back into the spot two seconds later. I guess tanks can't make mistakes, otherwise we'll make people upset that are so obviously trying to get carried through the flashpoint. Once again, no heals through the fight. Would have died without my cooldowns and rotation.

There's a lot more but I honestly can't be assed to go into further detail since I'm so tired and annoyed. Apologies for any grammar mistakes, I'm tying this out at like 1:30 in the morning.

Padabiene's Avatar


Padabiene
08.30.2019 , 04:16 AM | #9682
Had someone loving on tanks the other day too. Mandalorian MM, I was the healer, everyone was decently geared and seemed to know what they’re doing. It would’ve been a smooth and uneventful run if it weren’t for those meddling… no wait, for the gunslinger stopping after the first two trash pulls and typing in chat something along the lines of ‘if you do that again you’ll have a problem with support’. We’re confused at first but eventually figure out it’s directed at the tank and he’s complaining about being guarded. The tank tries to explain why, but the gunslinger is having none of it. Do it again and the ticket’s as good as sent!
We move on with mostly silence in chat and no hiccups. Sometime inbetween the tank asks if support got back to the gunslinger yet, the answer is some expletives. Last boss the gunslinger starts to flame the tank as ‘the worst one ever’ (clearly he wasn’t present during that Hammer Station MM run with a tank pulling with force lift, attacking from afar and generally using ‘not holding aggro’ as a def cd).
Still not sure if he had a really bad day, was trying to be funny or hasn’t figured out what guard actually does yet.
What do we do, panic, freak? I usually panic but I'm happy to freak.

JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
08.30.2019 , 12:41 PM | #9683
(Second attempt at this - I hit some key and exited the reply function after being almost finished a longer post - so this is a shortened version. Sometimes I hate this damned sensitive mechanical keyboard.)

Another sort of tank related story - but more about a healer complaining about it.
Last night I was doing Mandalorian Raiders Veteran with me, level 70 Guardian, 2 other lower level DPS, and an (IIRC) level 70 healer.
M. Raiders is a relatively easy FP (even in Master mode) and so we started off by just hacking and slashing our way through**. But very early on the Healer started typing all sorts of crap in chat about "single target tanks", "front line" and other stuff***.
We all stopped to ask "Who are you talking to?" and it never was too clear just who, but I think it was me because the healer seemed to think that I should "tank" because I was a guardian.
And the short version is that there were many exchanges during the FP that involved things like me saying "there is no tank", "we don't need a tank", "there is no front line" and other things, including the other players telling the healer to "chill".
On a funny note - when we got to the first boss with the dogs, the other DPS didn't know what to do and we wiped. The Healer, of course, went into a tirade about how bad the rest of us were and how no-one knows to attack the dog with the target on it, and blah, blah, blah. But, at least the other DPS gleaned enough info from it to attack the dogs during the next attempt, while I kept the boss busy. I was not really tanking, but I was keeping him busy and using a taunt whenever he'd go after the others. We were successful, but the healer died

We carried on. We had numerous other chat exchanges and some fun moments. At some point the healer seemed to stop healing - I suppose to "teach us a lesson" - but we just carried on using the usual self heals, defensive CDs, and koltos that we DPS all know how to use since often there actually is no healer.
We completed the FP and the healer left immediately.

Overall though - the FP was a lot of fun.

An interesting note. At some point midway through the FP I thought to myself that I wouldn't want to group with that healer again, so I put him on ignore. During the latter stages of the FP, I noticed the other players replying to things that I hadn't seen, so I'm wondering if putting the healer on ignore meant that I no longer saw his chats****. I'll need to test that out.

TL;DR - Yet again I need to say to healers and to a lesser extent to tanks - Veteran mode Flashpoints are designed to be able to be done with any form of group - even without a healer or tank. So don't go into a GF vet FP yapping about who should tank or who should heal.
Also, it's a GF PUG - you should expect to run into "scrubs", etc.

** It turned out that one player was by his own admission a "scrub" and the other one was not specifically familiar with MR. So, all out gung-ho.

*** I would assume this character was some sort of OPs/PvP/NiM player given all the "leet-speak" he kept spewing.

**** I know that ignoring a player means you don't see their general "chats" and whispers, but I didn't think it would stop you see "group" chats.
Hold water, a sieve may not, but hold another sieve, it will - Yoda..

Ardrossan's Avatar


Ardrossan
08.30.2019 , 03:33 PM | #9684
Long-time reader, first-time writer.

A month or so back, me a GS, a dps shadow, a VG tank and a sage healer, doing Cademimu SM. No one but me has done it before [of course they don't just TELL you that up front]. We get to the elevator to go down. I tell the tank he needs to run through first and just keep going until we run out of mobs. He runs, we go, then stops for some reason so the healer stops to heal him and they both die, me and the other dps have reached the force field. we tell them to revive and come back. This time the tank makes a left over to where the cinematic plays, and they both die. They revive, then die again for some reason. 4 times now. Finally the healer dies close enough to us that we can safely revive, the tank is asking us 'where do I go?"
"Straight, just go straight until you get to the blue thingie!"
But he dies again just before reaching us, so we decide to just kill the mobs and revive him. This doesn't inspire great confidence in the tank for the boss fight, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that it took a few tries. I will say that the tank never complained, never raged, and by the end had learned the fight pretty well.
***
The other story is more recently doing the rakghoul heroic. I'd never done it before but figured i'd give it a shot on a 69 mara. 4 people in the group, including two 70s and one 50 something. No healers. I ask if anyone's done this before and two say yes, it's easy. Easy, huh.

The fungus is not easy. I notice the champ has a channel and when he's done channeling he makes adds so i tell them to interrupt. we try several times, no one but me interrupts and eventually we get out-DPSed and die. Every time. One of the 70s and the lowbie drop group. Just me and a 70 sniper We pull out our comp healers and do it without much problem, except that the sniper [despite me saying several times now to use his interrupt] still isn't interrupting the channel. We finish one fungi and I tell him again, use your interrupt.

Sniper says "I'd have to find it, it's not on my tab." He says "can't you just interrupt?"
I tell him that the channel happens too frequently for only one person to interrupt. Finally he finds his interrupt, we go, finish the heroic, he never interrupts once.
He says "tyfg" and I say "when your in groups pve or pvp, use your interrupt."

Seriously, level 70 and he doesn't know how to use his interrupt? Kids today, pshaw etc.
Quote: Originally Posted by Severith View Post
You were loyal to EA/Bioware at a time when there was no reason to be loyal to them, and now that loyalty is being tested. If there is any justice in the world, you clearly deserve a special reward. Hopefully it happens, delivered on your porch in a brown paper bag, aflame with the light of justice.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
08.30.2019 , 03:47 PM | #9685
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardrossan View Post
Seriously, level 70 and he doesn't know how to use his interrupt? Kids today, pshaw etc.
Lol.

I can't imagine he's done any serious raiding before. Interrupts was probably one of the first things I learned from serious group content in the first standard MMO I played. I will say though, this game can be a lot harsher about it than some, at times. The cooldown for a typical interrupt in this game is rough.
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Ardrossan's Avatar


Ardrossan
08.30.2019 , 09:35 PM | #9686
I guess but gawd, even for vanilla content i still use interrupt.

Also these other two guys who boasted about it being easy and never used interrupt obviously got carried by earlier groups. It might have happened like this:

I tried the heroic again today, me on a 53 dps assassin, with a 70 merc healer and comp, and a 63 something or other, and i immediately noticed that the mobs for those fights turned to 70. They kill the lowbie immediately, i stealth out and tell the healer to run away but he just keeps on at it. Finally kills it. He says "why did you stop attacking?"
"the mobs are level 70."
"no, they scale to your level."
We revive the other guy and i decide to try one more time, this time I attack first. again, mobs turn to 70. Evidently they always did that, I just hadn't noticed because I was near that level. I say "They're level 70, so the 70 should drop group."
The 70 says "no its okay we can do it like this." I drop group. A few hours later I did a pug for Shellshock and saw the healer and asked him if they finished the heroic. "Yup, took awhile but np"

Yes, I could have stayed and watched as one guy finished the heroic but I don't want to be carried. Also it's boring. I also doubt they did the fungi without help. The nice thing about that heroic is that other players will come by and help you take down the champs.
Quote: Originally Posted by Severith View Post
You were loyal to EA/Bioware at a time when there was no reason to be loyal to them, and now that loyalty is being tested. If there is any justice in the world, you clearly deserve a special reward. Hopefully it happens, delivered on your porch in a brown paper bag, aflame with the light of justice.

Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
09.05.2019 , 12:11 PM | #9687
I q up as fake tank on my full 258 PT dps and get a pop for MM Cademimu. We r blasting through everything, until right after the shortcut following the first boss the healer asks me: where is ur tank gear? We r doing fine, whats the problem i say. And they just leave the group right there and then.

Nobody died, everything died exceptionally fast. If that isnt a dream group i dont know what is. Whipped out a 50 comp and finished rest of the FP in 5-10 mins.

I just dont get some folks.

LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
09.05.2019 , 01:28 PM | #9688
Quote: Originally Posted by Benirons View Post
I q up as fake tank on my full 258 PT dps and get a pop for MM Cademimu. We r blasting through everything, until right after the shortcut following the first boss the healer asks me: where is ur tank gear? We r doing fine, whats the problem i say. And they just leave the group right there and then.
You're using group-finder, there's an expectation that people que'ing up for certain roles are actually specced for that role. You don't get dps trying to pretend their off-heals are as good as being in heal spec, so why should dps think their taunt is as good an actual tank?

The problem is that a flashpoint that should be an easy, simple one for everyone isn't easy for the healer when there's a dps 'tanking'. If you find yourself using your big heals when you shouldn't have to, it's bloody annoying. It's like asking a dps to hit 10k dps in Hammer or get the boss enraging.

This is why people can't do MM blood hunt anymore. The 'tank's' aren't really tanks and healers can't prop them up like they can in the easy flashpoints.

If you want to run MM as a dps playing tank, that's fine, but it's best not to pug it unless you bring your own healer with you.
Stealthy heals, stealthy dps, stealthy life.

Padabiene's Avatar


Padabiene
09.05.2019 , 01:39 PM | #9689
For most of the older FPs I actually don't mind a 'fake tank' when I'm the healer. I just like to know from the start so I can adjust and pay more attention. If they know their way around their dcds they're sometimes easier to heal than a bad tank. (the guardian dps comes to mind who took over Blood Hunt last boss after the tank died on me twice in fire - he seriously was easier to heal)
What do we do, panic, freak? I usually panic but I'm happy to freak.

Benirons's Avatar


Benirons
09.05.2019 , 05:14 PM | #9690
Quote: Originally Posted by LD_Little_Dragon View Post
You're using group-finder, there's an expectation that people que'ing up for certain roles are actually specced for that role. You don't get dps trying to pretend their off-heals are as good as being in heal spec, so why should dps think their taunt is as good an actual tank?

The problem is that a flashpoint that should be an easy, simple one for everyone isn't easy for the healer when there's a dps 'tanking'. If you find yourself using your big heals when you shouldn't have to, it's bloody annoying. It's like asking a dps to hit 10k dps in Hammer or get the boss enraging.

This is why people can't do MM blood hunt anymore. The 'tank's' aren't really tanks and healers can't prop them up like they can in the easy flashpoints.

If you want to run MM as a dps playing tank, that's fine, but it's best not to pug it unless you bring your own healer with you.
Regarding blood hunt. One time the healer left for whatever reason, i dont remember. I think i was on my sniper, and pulled out lvl50 dr lokin and we one shot the first boss np, and got a q pop by the time of the 2nd boss and finished just fine.

Another time in MM blood hunt, i was on a slinger i believe, group did fine and we got down the 2nd boss. Then for whatever reason the tank left. So i popped a 50 healer comp for last boss cause there was no way we were gonna get a tank joining in. The sage healer actually ended up healing alone cause my silly comp stood in all the bad (thought they would be immune to most aoe like in several other fights, but not this time).

So yes, a slinger ended up tanking torch the entire time. And none of us (other than the comp) died. Random pug group.

Healers have it so easy in fps when there is a properly geared tank that they get into this feeling of im awesome. U could call this my project to make healers get better. And u know what healers getting upset is actually pretty rare. My DPS pt tanked almost every FP on MM with precious few exceptions (the new ones never pop so never tried e.g.). I do admit though that this would be not pug viable without being well overgeared for the content. I would not put a random pug through an MM fp in trashy at lvl gear, so there's that. In short though, i do this because i have great confidence in my abilities and expect to lead/carry the team to victory especially in the old fps that most everyone knows inside out.

Oh, PS. jug and shadow dps tanking would be pretty brutal, so i think only PT dps tanking is viable due to gr8 CDs (especially AP).