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DISCUSSION THREAD for Petition for new content / updates to GSF.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
DISCUSSION THREAD for Petition for new content / updates to GSF.

Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
07.19.2021 , 03:25 AM | #1
Please discuss anything related to the petition here, not on the actual petition.

Many thanks.
-Luc Nodaro
Link to My Youtube channel for GSF
Always happy to offer coaching / training for GSF.

SunlightIV's Avatar


SunlightIV
07.19.2021 , 05:00 AM | #2
New colors for lasers and engine would be cool!, or being able to use same colors for both in Republic side such as the mint green one.

DarthCasus's Avatar


DarthCasus
07.19.2021 , 10:39 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by SunlightIV View Post
New colors for lasers and engine would be cool!, or being able to use same colors for both in Republic side such as the mint green one.
And opening up them up to credit payment would be nice too. They aren't as coveted as dyes and a rigid pricing structure for 1 time use items that I could only assume a fraction of the people who even touch GSF would buy, is simply ridiculous. I want to enjoy the mode and make the most of what I do have, but not so much that I'm paying 400CC for different colored blaster fire for 1 character.
Quote: Originally Posted by DragonTora View Post
ur being the "leet" one by letting the internet raise ur children and I would flash the bird to u if i could noob.
Quote: Originally Posted by BarrinMarshal
I know your part of the "Forum Apologist Five" group but stop

Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
07.19.2021 , 11:03 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthCasus View Post
And opening up them up to credit payment would be nice too. They aren't as coveted as dyes and a rigid pricing structure for 1 time use items that I could only assume a fraction of the people who even touch GSF would buy, is simply ridiculous. I want to enjoy the mode and make the most of what I do have, but not so much that I'm paying 400CC for different colored blaster fire for 1 character.
I think this is covered by opening up GSF Cosmetics to be able to be purchased with Fleet Commendations.
-Luc Nodaro
Link to My Youtube channel for GSF
Always happy to offer coaching / training for GSF.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.19.2021 , 02:15 PM | #5
Copypasting my dissent from the main thread into this distraction thread:

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Quote: Originally Posted by Ttoilleekul View Post
First off, please not do discuss this petition here.
No thanks, I'll disagree here and there if I have to as well. It's extremely important to disagree with a petition on the petition itself, to make it clear that a united front is not in any way being presented. By shoving dissent into another thread, it makes it appear as if the petition has unanimous support.

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Second. If you agree with the petition, please just type "Agreed", and then rate the thread five stars. Do nothing else. Do not make comments or give feedback in this thread. We know from previous experience that a clear petition with lots of "yes" votes that is also rated 5 stars, will get the attention of the devs.
Good grief, no, this is the worst possible lesson. "Here's how to bully devs, from the time the devs listened to us last time".

How come you don't even say how to disagree with your "petition"? Hrm....

Here's your idea:
1- New map. This is a good idea. We don't need a petition for it. The devs know that new maps are great. Iokath in particular was really great. Do you think they need a petition for it? Nobody petitioned for Iokath. GSF shares resources with the ground game, especially with something like level design man.

2- New mode. I'd like several modes to be added- they could look around at other, similar games for inspiration, many of which started with domination and TDM and then added other objective type maps- but I don't expect it and I don't feel we should demand it. A new game mode is a huge deal, please remember.

3- More GSF decorations- Hey this would be neat, but why does anyone need a petition for this?

4- More stuff to spend currency on- there's technical difficulties with spending fleet or ship requisition for anything else. This would be nice for them to fix at some point, but at this point it's pretty absurd how much ship and fleet req is stored up, waiting to absolutely hammer whatever aspect of the economy they tie it to, were they to do this.

5- Legacy unlock for cartel ships - I don't want them to do this. I have bought cartel ships on many characters, and this is one way I can distinguish myself from someone who is unwilling or unable to do this. I won't be sad if they did this (though I would be grumpy as they would inevitably not throw any CCs my way). Anyway, I bought into it this way, and I hope they keep it this way.

6- Completely destroy links between a character's appearance and that character's abilities - Naw , screw this. It's great that if you like a character, you get to put up with their unique ups and downs, and can't just build everything perfectly without any actual tie to the characters being represented. It's really good the way it is now, if anything I'd like more things tied to characters and factions than now. We already lost almost everything that made these characters unique in the ground game, we have absolutely no compelling reason to lose that link here (at least the ground game people had points about access to healers and tanks back then).

7- Component deselect bug can be worked around by transferring a character. This should definitely be fixed or worked around (the workaround would be to let the game transfer you to another real or fake server and then immediately back, for no cost). But again, a petition? Screw that.

8- Matchmaker Improvements- Yes, this would be a nice thing for them to work on at some point. Matchmaker does pretty good right now though, with so many people playing. It seems to bump around in the dark when there aren't enough players for three games though.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
07.19.2021 , 03:09 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
Copypasting my dissent from the main thread into this distraction thread:

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No thanks, I'll disagree here and there if I have to as well. It's extremely important to disagree with a petition on the petition itself, to make it clear that a united front is not in any way being presented. By shoving dissent into another thread, it makes it appear as if the petition has unanimous support.



Good grief, no, this is the worst possible lesson. "Here's how to bully devs, from the time the devs listened to us last time".

How come you don't even say how to disagree with your "petition"? Hrm....
If you like I will add a "disagree" option to the petition. I honestly never thought of it because there are persistent threads asking for this and that on here regularly. None of those things in the petition were my ideas. They are all things I have seen people ask for and by and large comments in agreement with. Seems only logical to put it into one place and try to lobby the devs for some updates to GSF, which we both know won't happen otherwise. People moaned about the state of slicing for years, devs never did anything. One petition, and its fixed.



Quote:
Here's your idea:
1- New map. This is a good idea. We don't need a petition for it. The devs know that new maps are great. Iokath in particular was really great. Do you think they need a petition for it? Nobody petitioned for Iokath. GSF shares resources with the ground game, especially with something like level design man.
You and I both know GSF will be neglected unless we gently push for it. You disagree, that's fine. You do you. There is nothing wrong with trying to make a collective voice heard.

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2- New mode. I'd like several modes to be added- they could look around at other, similar games for inspiration, many of which started with domination and TDM and then added other objective type maps- but I don't expect it and I don't feel we should demand it. A new game mode is a huge deal, please remember.
Who is demanding? Its a polite request. Devs didn't get offended at the last one. They even chimed in and said, "great discussion here." Funny thing, they chimed in on the discussion thread, not the petition itself, because they can read more than one thread.

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3- More GSF decorations- Hey this would be neat, but why does anyone need a petition for this?
I am not going to repeat myself.

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4- More stuff to spend currency on- there's technical difficulties with spending fleet or ship requisition for anything else. This would be nice for them to fix at some point, but at this point it's pretty absurd how much ship and fleet req is stored up, waiting to absolutely hammer whatever aspect of the economy they tie it to, were they to do this.
Again, not my idea, but I agree with it. You don't, That's fine.

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5- Legacy unlock for cartel ships - I don't want them to do this. I have bought cartel ships on many characters, and this is one way I can distinguish myself from someone who is unwilling or unable to do this. I won't be sad if they did this (though I would be grumpy as they would inevitably not throw any CCs my way). Anyway, I bought into it this way, and I hope they keep it this way.
Safe to say you are in the minority on this one. I've heard complaints about cartels ships not being legacy wide probably as much as I heard complaints about slicing pre-nerf.

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6- Completely destroy links between a character's appearance and that character's abilities - Naw , screw this. It's great that if you like a character, you get to put up with their unique ups and downs, and can't just build everything perfectly without any actual tie to the characters being represented. It's really good the way it is now, if anything I'd like more things tied to characters and factions than now. We already lost almost everything that made these characters unique in the ground game, we have absolutely no compelling reason to lose that link here (at least the ground game people had points about access to healers and tanks back then).
We'll just have to agree to disagree.

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7- Component deselect bug can be worked around by transferring a character. This should definitely be fixed or worked around (the workaround would be to let the game transfer you to another real or fake server and then immediately back, for no cost). But again, a petition? Screw that.
A work around for a bug that has been rather ignored? No thanks. How about just fix it. A petition for a bug that has been ignored? Yep, you bet.

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8- Matchmaker Improvements- Yes, this would be a nice thing for them to work on at some point. Matchmaker does pretty good right now though, with so many people playing. It seems to bump around in the dark when there aren't enough players for three games though.
Wow, look! We agree! Sort of. Yes it does manage better with more players. Still a hot mess though. Seems to be an ideal subject of a petition.

I was prepared for this response from "somebody." So, I will add disagree option on the petition. That's fair. As for the rest of it, we don't see it the same way. I'm happy to leave it there. Petition remains.Your voice has been noted, I am certain the devs will see your "dissent."
-Luc Nodaro
Link to My Youtube channel for GSF
Always happy to offer coaching / training for GSF.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.19.2021 , 03:20 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Ttoilleekul View Post
There is nothing wrong with trying to make a collective voice heard.
This is YOUR voice. You've collected a bunch of things that other people have discussed a bit, and then added some of your own. For instance, there's plenty of people who want free cartel stuff, but very few people asking for removal of copilots. Yet here they are in the same "petition". Organized by you, and no one else.


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Safe to say you are in the minority on this one.
Of course I am. You're voting on free stuff, and I'm one of the few players who bought enough here that I'd be punked by them doing this, because I paid to have cartel ships on multiple characters, and you did not. Obviously if they go and give you and everyone else free cartel ships everywhere, I'm the butt of the joke. Being in the minority doesn't make me wrong. I bet if we took a vote to divide your bank account evenly between the forum members, it would be "safe to say you are in the minority on this one" too.

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A work around for a bug that has been rather ignored? No thanks.
You should say "thanks" because I just told you how to solve it if you really care. But yes, obviously they should fix it. This is the only actual defect in all of this, you know- this stupid deselect thing that I don't really think the devs understand exactly how frustrating it is to have to check everything every time you log in or just be missing a pile of upgrades. You can bet if talent trees had this issue in ground game it would be a tier 1 emergency.


We agree on plenty of these. I don't think petitions are how to get stuff done. If we have to, I think they should be reserved for cases where it has become disruptive, and where basically everyone agrees. Multipoint wishlists strikes me as extremely disrespectful and inappropriate. None of these are prenerf slicing, and the only defect in the list is the component deselect bug. How many people signing "agree" don't actually care about 2-6 of your points but really just would like, for instance, a new map and the bug fix? But by setting it up to avoid this nuance, you create the illusion of mass support.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
07.19.2021 , 10:46 PM | #8
First of all it's one thing to ask for a specific thing with a petition, but I think it's a very bad idea to use a petition for multiple requests. If you were going to make a multiple request petition, you'd want to track each request separately.

Now on to each request.

1: New maps/Modes

I'm all for new maps of the existing modes, but after playing Star Wars Squadrons, I think a fleet battles mode is a terrible idea, that game had it as it's primary mode and still couldn't balance it. I'd hate to throw that in here, with very little follow up on it and it just be a freaking mess.

I think there's definitely room for new modes, but something more like King of the hill (A roaming area you capture for points) or VIP (Some kills are worth more points then others) would be much easier to implement.

2: More GSF Decorations

I mean sure, but I wouldn't bump this above another map or mode for example, which is why I hate that you put it in the same pile. I'd probably just disagree with a petition for this if it was the only thing, just so they could focus elsewhere.

3: Alternate Fleet Comms and Fleet Requisition purchases

While I'd be ok with alternate Fleet Comms purchases since that has a cap, at this point I think a Fleet requisition conversion might be a little much since there isn't a cap on that and some players have pooled tremendous amounts of it over the years.

4: Legacy Unlocks for CC ships

If you're going to add this, I'd say you'd want it at a much higher price since it's not just a cosmetic, it's player power in the sense that you get a second copy of a ship which can be very useful for having alternate builds on your bar. It would also give you ships that were unlocked on brand new characters. Secondly you'd want to refund anyone that had baught all the extra ships, since that's a lot of extra Cartel coins that they spent to get all those ships. Without that refund I don't think it would be fair in the slightest to add this.

5: Copilot voices not bound

I used to think like you did many years ago, but not anymore. I think it's interesting to have them on select characters, however my suggestion would be to add a second copy of each copilot with different passives and copilot ability, giving alternatives for different setups, while maintaining the exclusivity of voices to abilities.

6: Bug fixes and Matchmaker improvements

While of course everyone wants this stuff, this isn't a petition type thing. That's like saying we need to make a petition so the loading times are better.
DrakolichDrakolích
The BastionTwitch Stream

Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
07.20.2021 , 02:39 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
This is YOUR voice. You've collected a bunch of things that other people have discussed a bit, and then added some of your own. For instance, there's plenty of people who want free cartel stuff, but very few people asking for removal of copilots. Yet here they are in the same "petition". Organized by you, and no one else.
I added nothing of my own originality. Everything is stuff I have seen from other posts and comments, or what I know from talking to other pilots. If someone adds their "agree" it becomes their voice too. Is a petition submitted to parliament (which happens quite often) the voice of just one person? This is semantics.


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Of course I am. You're voting on free stuff, and I'm one of the few players who bought enough here that I'd be punked by them doing this, because I paid to have cartel ships on multiple characters, and you did not
.
You're assuming a lot here. Willing to bet I have more Cartel Ships on more characters than you. Willing to show you the numbers too.
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Obviously if they go and give you and everyone else free cartel ships everywhere, I'm the butt of the joke. Being in the minority doesn't make me wrong.
You can buy an outfit or a weapon from the cartel market and unlock it for 400cc. That is a cosmetic item. Cartel ships are a cosmetic item. They are functionally identical in every way to the standard versions. There is no reason why they shouldn't be in collections. What you're basically saying is that you would be salty because you spent the money and won't get it back. I am thinking of others, who would like to spend the money but wont until its legacy wide. Right or wrong here comes down to what the devs think is the best business decision. If unlocking the ships in collections will prompt more players to buy them and hence more profits for Bioware, you can bet your bottom dollar they will do it. If they believe it won't, then they won't.
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I bet if we took a vote to divide your bank account evenly between the forum members, it would be "safe to say you are in the minority on this one" too.
Inaccurate analogy.


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You should say "thanks" because I just told you how to solve it if you really care.
You just told me to spend 1000cc on 40 charecters (40kcc) to work around the deselect bug by transferring them all, resulting in me needing to leave my guilds and then re-transfer them back to the desired server, for another 40Kcc. No, I won't be saying thanks.

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But yes, obviously they should fix it. This is the only actual defect in all of this, you know- this stupid deselect thing that I don't really think the devs understand exactly how frustrating it is to have to check everything every time you log in or just be missing a pile of upgrades. You can bet if talent trees had this issue in ground game it would be a tier 1 emergency.
You see, this is why we have a petition. Because stuff in the ground game gets fixed and updated where as GSF does not. You just said it. Iokath was over 3 years ago. So while you are happy to sit back and assume that one day we will get some new GSF content and that the bugs that have been around years will get fixed, I am not. I would rather put our voices together and nudge the devs politely.

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We agree on plenty of these. I don't think petitions are how to get stuff done.
Devs, please note this. What would you propose? How would you get stuff done? Because everyone wants a new map, everyone wants bugs fixed, but no one has ever done anything to try to get stuff done. OR we can just resume sitting on our hands for the next three years then moaning again about no new content while ground pvp gets another new map and pve gets another new Flashpoint.

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If we have to, I think they should be reserved for cases where it has become disruptive, and where basically everyone agrees.
When has there ever been another petition? I did one for remote slicing. The devs liked the community feedback, it worked, we got the job done. Name another time there has been a petiion? You will never get everyone agreeing. The world doesn't work like that. What we have here is the hope that the majority agree and hence the devs see an incentive to make the changes to keep people logging in and spending their money and time on the game. Its all business. Nothing more.

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Multipoint wishlists strikes me as extremely disrespectful and inappropriate. None of these are prenerf slicing, and the only defect in the list is the component deselect bug. How many people signing "agree" don't actually care about 2-6 of your points but really just would like, for instance, a new map and the bug fix? But by setting it up to avoid this nuance, you create the illusion of mass support.
It would be a lot worse to have multiple petitions. Fact is, we have multiple bugs that have never been fixed since before I joined GSF. We haven't had a new map in over 3 years. And the other revisions I hope / believe would be well received. Fact is if GSF received the kind of regular attention the ground game got, there would be no need for a multi-point petition. The petition will tell. GSF is in need of some attention and if we do nothing it will remain that way. What your "dissent" essentially comes down to - aside from disagreement with a couple of the minor points - is that you agree by and large with what is being asked for, but you disagree with asking for it. Noted.
-Luc Nodaro
Link to My Youtube channel for GSF
Always happy to offer coaching / training for GSF.

Ttoilleekul's Avatar


Ttoilleekul
07.20.2021 , 03:15 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
First of all it's one thing to ask for a specific thing with a petition, but I think it's a very bad idea to use a petition for multiple requests. If you were going to make a multiple request petition, you'd want to track each request separately.
So to repeat the issue here, GSF has been largely neglected. Every long term pilot knows it. If it received regular updates and content like the ground game does, then there would be no need for a multi-point petition. The petition is essentially saying, "hey Devs, GSF kind of needs a little work please." People put individual posts up all the time asking for things, and what happens? Nothing. We tried that, it doesn't work. Time for a new approach. You'll thank me if this works. Regardless of whether you disagree with the approach.

Now on to each request.

Quote:
1: New maps/Modes

I'm all for new maps of the existing modes, but after playing Star Wars Squadrons, I think a fleet battles mode is a terrible idea, that game had it as it's primary mode and still couldn't balance it. I'd hate to throw that in here, with very little follow up on it and it just be a freaking mess.

I think there's definitely room for new modes, but something more like King of the hill (A roaming area you capture for points) or VIP (Some kills are worth more points then others) would be much easier to implement.
I don't have the experience with fleet battles, you do. So I'm hearing you, but, GSF is not balanced anyway, and neither is SWS. So balance and mode would seem to be entirely unrelated. That is a matchmaker issue, mostly. It doesn't matter what new mode is introduced, it will still be unbalanced unless matchmaker receives a heavy overall. And even then, I am skeptical that would fix it. It won't be unbalanced because its fleet battles. Now, that said, any new mode works for me, and I would be fine with a Capture the point type mode.

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2: More GSF Decorations

I mean sure, but I wouldn't bump this above another map or mode for example, which is why I hate that you put it in the same pile. I'd probably just disagree with a petition for this if it was the only thing, just so they could focus elsewhere.
You did disagree with it.

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3: Alternate Fleet Comms and Fleet Requisition purchases

While I'd be ok with alternate Fleet Comms purchases since that has a cap, at this point I think a Fleet requisition conversion might be a little much since there isn't a cap on that and some players have pooled tremendous amounts of it over the years.
I appreciate some players have tremendous amounts of fleet requisition stored up. But its still a pointless currency that becomes utterly useless beyond a certain stage. Would seem only logical to give it a purpose. This is why it needs to be a very high figure for the conversion. As for long term players being able to convert a lot of requisition to Fleet comms because of their large amount of Fleet requisition stored up - I wouldn't worry about that. They have already done similar. If you have the right amplifiers on your character, you can loot 10K Fleet Comms in one evening of play. So it wouldn't make any difference for the long term pilots to be able to max out their fleet comms if this conversion happened. They would only be able to do it once, where as you can farm 10k Fleet comms already every evening if you wish. Honestly the amount of fleet requisition stored up pales into comparison to the already existing ways to farm Fleet Comms. But at least it would give a purpose to the currency.

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4: Legacy Unlocks for CC ships

If you're going to add this, I'd say you'd want it at a much higher price since it's not just a cosmetic, it's player power in the sense that you get a second copy of a ship which can be very useful for having alternate builds on your bar. It would also give you ships that were unlocked on brand new characters. Secondly you'd want to refund anyone that had baught all the extra ships, since that's a lot of extra Cartel coins that they spent to get all those ships. Without that refund I don't think it would be fair in the slightest to add this.
If the unlock price is "much higher" it defeats the purpose. How high are you proposing? 600cc? 800? 1000K. Maybe that has legs. I'd be happy for the devs to work it out. Yes a brand new toon now gets an extra ship/s unlocked, but you still have to master it. You're not at an advantage. Yes its player power in the sense that its a 2nd copy which can be useful, but that's a very minimal player power, and one a lot more people would be willing to buy into. As for the refund, yeah that's just not going to happen. I remember seeing people moaning when Nico Okarr was given away free to subscribers a few years ago, and the founders were complaining that it was no longer an exclusive founder reward. Things change. You're either thinking about other people here or you're not.

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5: Copilot voices not bound

I used to think like you did many years ago, but not anymore. I think it's interesting to have them on select characters, however my suggestion would be to add a second copy of each copilot with different passives and copilot ability, giving alternatives for different setups, while maintaining the exclusivity of voices to abilities.
12k games, approaching 3 years play time, I haven't changed my mind and won't. Thought it from the start, and I think it now. I can get behind the alternate versions though.

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6: Bug fixes and Matchmaker improvements

While of course everyone wants this stuff, this isn't a petition type thing. That's like saying we need to make a petition so the loading times are better.
I mean, really? What better need is there for a petition? Bugs that have not been fixed in over 3 years. I'm all ears for other ideas, but its not like these bugs have not been reported through the bug reports system.So, give me another idea for how we get these bugs fixed.We tried siting on our hands and moaning about it. That didn't work. Sorry for the sarcasm here, but come on....
-Luc Nodaro
Link to My Youtube channel for GSF
Always happy to offer coaching / training for GSF.