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SWG and the CU / NGE apocalypse


ArrA

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Yeah right, same old SWG passive aggressive trolling. Thanks for proving me right about the SWG community. :rak_03:

 

Proving you're as transparent as wet paper was all with your assistance... I couldn't have done it with out you! :d_grin:

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Not sure I'd say a WoW style Star Wars MMO failed here. This game has lasted 10 years. Not many online game games last anywhere near that long.

 

It may not have been as big as some had hoped, but it definitely isn't a failure.

 

SWTOR was KOTOR 3 it was clearly said so at the time, and remains so to this day... not some slimy WoW knock off.

 

The Doctor's took their success and vision to the next level by having a KOTOR 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 called SWTOR.

 

It's really that simple. :d_confused: How is this not remembered?

Edited by Kass
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Yeah I don't see this being the same thing at all. Like others have said, having played both SWG and SWTOR since beta this really doesn't compare. It may be true some people will quit, but some people are just naturally resistant to change and that is an expected reaction. Personally every time SWTOR makes an improvement I always come back for a while and rediscover the game, so there is a counter balancing effect in place as well. I love the concept of truly playing a gray Jedi now, that's huge for me personally. :wea_03::csw_bluesaber:

 

I guess I'll have to wait for the Shadow changes to really make a judgement.

Edited by Tentou
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I really think this post over here: https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=995367 is on to something.

 

It sure makes me ready to walk back my uncritical support up until now. Because when Theron Shan keeps showing up in my cut scenes like a cockroach, you have to question development priorities; and to stop outsourcing code writing overseas (if that's whats happening and is causing these massive errors - beyond just bugs).

 

After reading the referenced post, which is pretty darn well argued - and that's coming from an anti-wall-o-text warrior - while not the apocalypse for SWTOR I have to apologize to OP and say that there are some foundation to his intent.

 

So while I totally rabidly disagree with the linkage OP was making - after reading the cited post, realize where he's coming from a bit better.

 

Personally I'm really rethinking any support for this change as proposed.

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SWTOR was KOTOR 3 it was clearly said so at the time, and remains so to this day... not some slimy WoW knock off.

 

The Doctor's took their success and vision to the next level by having a KOTOR 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 called SWTOR.

 

It's really that simple. :d_confused: How is this not remembered?

 

I went to Star Wars Celebration V in Florida, the ONLY celebration event where this game had an actual Panel (two different days).

They absolutely & very clearly stated (it was before launch) that this game was, essentially, KOTOR 3-10, one for each class story.

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I went to Star Wars Celebration V in Florida, the ONLY celebration event where this game had an actual Panel (two different days).

They absolutely & very clearly stated (it was before launch) that this game was, essentially, KOTOR 3-10, one for each class story.

 

I remember that as well. VERY clearly stated.

 

Then again, the person you are quoting seems to play fast and loose with the "truth" anyway...

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I remember that as well. VERY clearly stated.

 

Then again, the person you are quoting seems to play fast and loose with the "truth" anyway...

 

:d_wink:: There is a 96% chance that he honestly requires our help Master

:hope_02: And what's the other 4%?

:d_cool:: That he simply wishes to be blasted Master, though this may simply be wishful thinking on my part

 

Not my fault when someone is a 4 percent-er.

 

I help where I can

 

:d_rolls_eyes:

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I went to Star Wars Celebration V in Florida, the ONLY celebration event where this game had an actual Panel (two different days).

 

If Celebration is anything like E3, PAX, or shows of that nature then the on-site floor space, set up, etc, can be expensive. You'd think with SWTOR being part of the SW brand that automatically gets them an in at Celebration but it necessarily doesn't and EA doesn't want to cover the expense associated with that they'd need to look into doing something off-site.

 

This is why the Cantina Tours happen during events like E3, PAX, Comic-Con, etc, but are never actually on-site at those locations.

 

They absolutely & very clearly stated (it was before launch) that this game was, essentially, KOTOR 3-10, one for each class story.

 

Yes, that's true but that doesn't seem to actually be the argument here. You also have to keep in mind that EA if they want (in conjunction with Disney) can put out a game called "Knights of The Old Republic 3" The existing sales pitch of SWTOR being KOTOR 3-10 never prevented them from doing so.

Edited by Darth-Obvious
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The whole reason to CU and the NGE came about in the first place, was because of a toxicity in both the development team and the player base.

 

It started with an issue with carbineer where a skill would permanently knock down an opponent in PvP.

 

I haven't gotten to the current end of this thread, but as someone who played SWG from launch until a year or two after the NGE...this is a myopic view of things.

 

There were all kinds of balancing issues that were apparent because of the mix and match system of skills and professions. My character was a Teras Kasi Master primarily. I always stuck with that as my main mode of gameplay (until after NGE). However, I totally changed the distribution of all my other skill points at a certain point because we found out that you could stack dodge to the point you could barely be touched by NPCs. I used to go to Dathomir and just walk up to spawn points and beat on them endlessly with spin kicks while everything hopelessly tried to hit me. As long as you had buffs from a doctor (another mechanic that caused unintended headaches and ripple effects), you could absorb any hits that managed to break through and essentially be immortal in most cases. This didn't work as well in PVP though, and it took a long time to kill things because the damage wasn't great. It was basically just easy mode.

 

That is just one example. I'm sure there are tons more. I loved the original vision of SWG. The implementation of such a large number of classes and how they could be used together for builds just wasn't designed well combat wise. It was outside of combat where the game really shined.

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Which is why history is such an important thing and the original reason for this post. Learn from previous mistakes.

 

Except SWTOR isn't doing the exact same thing SWG did.

 

You're trying to make the two games analogous in ways that they aren't.

 

You view Combat Styles as a mistake but that doesn't mean Combat Styles are to SWTOR what CU/NGE was to SWG.

 

CU / NGE was a mistake, plain and simple.

 

Then you should be discussing that in a different forum section.

Edited by Darth-Obvious
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The changes being made in 7.0 are not the same as what they did in SWG so not sure how you are making a comparison.

 

A good explanation is found here:

https://swtorista.com/articles/combat-styles-explained/

 

But basically in a nut shell, a warrior can now be a healer by playing the sorcerer advanced class or a stealth by playing assassin advanced class. Same with tech classes.

Edited by Nightblazer
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This is a bit to premature and knee jerking for a doom and gloom post. We don't even know what the final result of what they are doing will actually look like, til it goes live in like 6 months!

 

Problem is Bioware doesn't know either...which is why they put up next to nothing for PTS. They literally just pulled this out of their Bantha's to try and catch some of the Final Fantasy overflow from WOW. This isn't about giving SWToR fans content this is about moving closer towards minimal game management while trying to capture players moving away from WoW...they don't even slightly care about existing players.

 

I was in the SWToR beta...they ignored feedback. I played in the initial days...they ignored all the outcry about gearing being "dumbed down". Players wanted more story...they changed to single story arcs rather than more choice and class stories... They have no faith in the game and never have...And so the game will always suffer from a lack of commitment to its design and the player base.

Edited by Soljin
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The changes being made in 7.0 are not the same as what they did in SWG so not sure how you are making a comparison.

 

A good explanation is found here:

https://swtorista.com/articles/combat-styles-explained/

 

But basically in a nut shell, a warrior can now be a healer by playing the sorcerer advanced class or a stealth by playing assassin advanced class. Same with tech classes.

 

Check the PTS to see the real changes ;)

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Except SWTOR isn't doing the exact same thing SWG did.

 

You're trying to make the two games analogous in ways that they aren't.

 

You view Combat Styles as a mistake but that doesn't mean Combat Styles are to SWTOR what CU/NGE was to SWG.

 

 

 

Then you should be discussing that in a different forum section.

 

Except I never said that.

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Except I never said that.

 

What did I say that you said in that quote?

 

I said you're trying to the two things analogous in ways that they're not which is what you did.

 

At no point in what you quoted did I say "you said X" but you're acting like I did because you know you didn't say those specific words and are trying to frame it in a way that doesn't make you look bad, but now drawing attention to you trying to manipulate things that way does.

 

You started off this thread saying "Not wanting to sound the doomer alarm" and then launched off into talking about the downfall of SWG and you wouldn't do that if you didn't feel like SWTOR was doing the same.

 

You knew people were already having a negative reaction to Combat Styles and so you decided to make this topic thinking people were going to validate you "Yeah that's righ!" but then it backfired and you've been constantly backpeddling ever since trying to claim that you weren't doing exactly what everyone knows you were doing.

Edited by Darth-Obvious
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What did I say that you said?

 

I said you're trying to the two things analogous in ways that they're not which is what you did.

 

At no point in what you quoted did I say "you said X" but you're acting like I did because you know you didn't say those specific words and are trying to frame it in a way that doesn't make you look bad, but now drawing attention to you trying to manipulate things that way does.

 

I'm simply bringing up a monumental mistake made in a previous Star Wars mmo that a lot of players today might not know of. Broad sweeping class changes are a slippery slope that can outright ruin a game. I've never said Bioware are doing this to the extent of SWG's mess. They are however making big changes to the game with this xpac and I'm putting forward my opinion, and guess what champ, I'm allowed to do that.

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Well the SWG game developers themselves said they lost 25% of the player base with the NGE release changes.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj0qmx...ature=youtu.be

This is a post-mortem of the good and bad and why the game ultimately failed.

 

The biggest takeaway is don’t launch when a game’s not ready yet and the second is don’t drastically change a game or take things out of a game that the fans love or want to keep as they are.

 

Sadly, I’ve seen Bioware make these exact same mistakes multiple times in swtor and they’re about to do it again by pruning class abilities and dumbing down the game even more.

 

What’s scary is we no longer have enough population to survive a major mistake that could lead to a 25% reduction in the player base and if that happens this time, then I wouldn’t be surprised if the game wasn’t shuttered by the end of next year or sooner.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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The changes being made in 7.0 are not the same as what they did in SWG so not sure how you are making a comparison.

 

A good explanation is found here:

https://swtorista.com/articles/combat-styles-explained/

 

But basically in a nut shell, a warrior can now be a healer by playing the sorcerer advanced class or a stealth by playing assassin advanced class. Same with tech classes.

 

Yeah, might be a good idea if you download the pts and actually see what they are “actually” doing before arguing with people who’ve actually bothered to test.

 

What swtorista is stating about swapping combat styles or advance classes is true. But she doesn’t mention that Bioware are ability pruning or dumbing down the advance class builds by removing iconic DCDs or making you choose between abilities you used to have as default.

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I'm simply bringing up a monumental mistake made in a previous Star Wars mmo that a lot of

players today might not know of.

 

And if that's the case and you weren't at all trying to make it analogous to SWTOR and Combat Styles then there's no reason to post it in the SWTOR General Discussion forum.

 

SWG has come up a lot on these forums over the years not to mention you weren't the first, second, or third person trying to tie the two things together.

 

Broad sweeping class changes are a slippery slope that can outright ruin a game.

 

They are however making big changes to the game with this xpac and I'm putting forward my opinion, and guess what champ, I'm allowed to do that.

 

Okay so why make another topic related to Combat Styles when there were already several active ones? It was like you didn't want your post to be one of many in another topic where it would get burried and went for the most attention-grabbing thing possible.

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What’s scary is we no longer have enough population to survive a major mistake that could lead to a 25% reduction in the player base and if that happens this time, then I wouldn’t be surprised if the game wasn’t shuttered by the end of next year or sooner.

 

I don't think you'll see that significant of a drop-off in numbers just because of the changes to combat for SWTOR.

 

I think 7.0 will be like any other expansion. The numbers will shoot up when it releases then by a month or two later many will have either gotten through all the content or given up on whatever the current grind is and it'll just continue on the same as ever until the next update.

 

"But the numbers might fall off even lower than usual after a month or two." Sure, maybe but also think about how many MMOs have shut down in the last several years vs all the ones that are still going. Are Age of Conan or Champions Online's numbers popping off? No, so how is it that they're still around?

 

The number of active MMOs that are still out there leads me to believe that it's much harder for an MMO to die off completely than people think/assume.

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Well the SWG game developers themselves said they lost 25% of the player base with the NGE release changes.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj0qmx...ature=youtu.be

This is a post-mortem of the good and bad and why the game ultimately failed.

 

The biggest takeaway is don’t launch when a game’s not ready yet and the second is don’t drastically change a game or take things out of a game that the fans love or want to keep as they are.

 

 

Yep ^ ....as i already replied to your same post in the other exact same topic (smaller) thread lol

 

p.s. Why the BioWare moderators haven't combined these 2 threads is beyond me. :confused:

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