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Change back the changes!


kristinlouise

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Herro~

So I don’t know how other people are feeling about the recent changes to pvp questing (now you need to win a match to advance dailies and weeklies) but I really don’t like them. From the perspective of someone who doesn’t always queue with a coordinated premade group, these changes mean I am almost guaranteed to get my butt handed to me by one. Requiring wins for quest credit means people are more likely to queue in teams if they can, to increase chances of winning. This means anyone who plays by themselves is so much more likely to repeatedly lose. This is already scaring away friends and familiar faces of mine who typically queue solo because they just don’t want to lose every single time for no credit. It’s also going to discourage new people from trying it or sticking with it because there is no incentive. I don’t understand what the logic was behind this change but it’s forcing unranked zones closer to grouped matches because there just isn’t any way to win anymore without a team. PVP is one area where participation trophies are actually necessary for the community to be as welcoming as possible for new people and solo’ers. I know it means dragging useless people through every once and awhile but that’s not as bad as not being able to do it all.

I’d love to hear other people’s’ thoughts! Thanks 🙃

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Herro~

So I don’t know how other people are feeling about the recent changes to pvp questing... but I really don’t like them. ...anyone who plays by themselves is so much more likely to repeatedly lose. [solo/casual/rookie players] don’t want to lose every single time for no credit. It’s also going to discourage new people from trying it or sticking with it because there is no incentive. I don’t understand what the logic was behind this change but it’s forcing unranked zones closer to grouped matches because there just isn’t any way to win anymore without a team.

 

Pretty much all the changes to PVP are horrible. With the Steam launch, it should be a great time for new players. Instead the devs change the daily/weekly missions to recognize only wins while also implementing a 15-minute deserter penalty.

 

So if you're a regular PvPer in a guild and can group up, this is great. But if you're a rookie, a solo player, or both, this change is really frustrating.

 

Since Huttballs was introduced in Beta, I have voluntarily played two games. One the first time I tried it. It sounded stupid and like an esport the engine wasn't designed to handle. A ball-game in an MMO with no clipping? I was right. It sucked. That was the last time I played it and went back to focusing on other aspects of the beta. After the game released, I thought I'd give it a try. Huttballs still sucked. Here we are nine years later, Huttballs still sucks.

 

Ever since, if I queued for PvP and loaded into Huttballs, I would usually just leave immediately. If there were only a few minutes left, I would often stay and do my best to help my team win, even though I still despised Huttballs. And sometimes we would win, since I wasn't always backfilling for some primadonna who flounced rather than tarnish their "perfect" record.

 

But now, if I backfill into a losing Huttballs match, I get nothing for staying, regardless of what I do or how I play, and I get a deserter penalty for leaving. It's a lose-lose situation.

 

So I think from now on, loading in to a Huttballs match will just mean it's time for a mid-field dance off.

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Pretty much all the changes to PVP are horrible. With the Steam launch, it should be a great time for new players. Instead the devs change the daily/weekly missions to recognize only wins while also implementing a 15-minute deserter penalty.

 

So if you're a regular PvPer in a guild and can group up, this is great. But if you're a rookie, a solo player, or both, this change is really frustrating.

 

Since Huttballs was introduced in Beta, I have voluntarily played two games. One the first time I tried it. It sounded stupid and like an esport the engine wasn't designed to handle. A ball-game in an MMO with no clipping? I was right. It sucked. That was the last time I played it and went back to focusing on other aspects of the beta. After the game released, I thought I'd give it a try. Huttballs still sucked. Here we are nine years later, Huttballs still sucks.

 

Ever since, if I queued for PvP and loaded into Huttballs, I would usually just leave immediately. If there were only a few minutes left, I would often stay and do my best to help my team win, even though I still despised Huttballs. And sometimes we would win, since I wasn't always backfilling for some primadonna who flounced rather than tarnish their "perfect" record.

 

But now, if I backfill into a losing Huttballs match, I get nothing for staying, regardless of what I do or how I play, and I get a deserter penalty for leaving. It's a lose-lose situation.

 

So I think from now on, loading in to a Huttballs match will just mean it's time for a mid-field dance off.

 

Oh yes, terrible devs for making what every other mmo makes. The penalties are there for a reason. The penalty is not the problem. Pre-mades are. They need to make regs a solo or no more than 2 man queue.

 

Also no, Huttball is awesome and your post proves why the penalty is necessary cause in a tirade of self interest you ruin the game for some and the queue for others. So, yes, you do deserve a penalty if you do that.

Edited by Nemmar
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I'm going to use dog training as an illustration. Let's say you let your dog out before work each day. Just before you are ready to leave, you call the dog to come. When he gets to you, Monday thru Friday, you praise+pet and then put him in his crate and go to work. On Saturday, you skip the praise+pet but you put him in the truck and go to dog park. Your dog's recall command is going to be rock solid because you have consistently reinforced the idea that every time he comes SOMETHING good is going to happen.

 

Now let's say you get sloppy and Monday thru Friday you skip the praise+pet and just put him in his crate and go to work, but on Saturdays we get in the truck and go to dog park. Your dog's come command is going to fall apart into "I come when I feel like it" because most of the time he's not getting anything out of it.

 

Players are the same, and so are employees. If they're not getting any reward for what they are doing (even if it's just praise or the feeling of satisfaction of a job well done) they aren't going to be doing it for very much longer.

 

PVP before the changes was primarily three groups of people: 1) people who farm dps numbers in mid (I have never been really clear on what they get out of pvp, arena practice maybe?); 2) people who don't have enough pvp associates for a premade but do understand to focus on objectives; and 3) premades. The skill level of all three groups was varied. You'd have the newbies importing their other mmo habits up to the people where you see their name on your team and know it's gonna be a good match.

 

What I'm seeing with the new changes is that group #2 is dwindling. The people I used to see regularly aren't queing anymore and participation is narrowing down to groups 1 and 3, or more to the point, the premades farming the number farmers for wins. Trying to get the cats herded to focusing on the objectives is a lot more difficult than it used to be.

 

Before, even if you lost you still made progress on your weekly. It wasn't great, but you at least got something for your trouble. It made the match not feel like a waste of time if you got put in with a bunch of number farmers or new people. It kept the new people hooked enough to get better. Now, with that removed, the competitive loners aren't bothering and the newbies are largely falling into the number farmers' bad habits.

 

If the purpose of this change was to make premades mandatory for pvp and/or to narrow participation to premades, well, congratulations, mission accomplished. I don't think SWTOR has a big enough player base to support this change, particularly with how many games both cast a wide net for pvp participation and reinforce both active participation and winning.

 

If, however, the goal was to make the weekly harder so people would pvp more or make people try harder in matches, this was the opposite tactic to take. Upping the value for a win without removing the incentive to participate would have been a better choice -- kept the competitive loners in the q.

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Ya rn the player base is so bad in pvp; to have 3-4 man premades in the same q as pugs is truly unbalanced. At one time, it was fine. I don't get the thrill of killing bad players with 3-4 people in a "good" premade. I think anyone semi-competent could probably do that with your eyes closed or one handed lol

 

TBH If I pug, I'm just going to dodge your premade so pffftttttttttt LOL

 

Really, I could do the same BUT I'm not organizing a guild and/or 3-4 people to kill people who are horrible players and offer no legitimate competition LMAO It's more of a thrill for me to kill people who are hard to kill.

 

I've built several guilds with other very wonderful helpful people but atm the time and effort just to kill bad players/pugs for me is no where worth the effort LOL

 

I recommend q dodging guilds and premades if you are pugging (put them all on your friends list) because they probably will never fix that element and tbh if they did, there wouldn't be enough players.

 

What happens is they start to play other premades and their pride is so great in their guild or group that they start losing they take it out on each other, and it's causes DRAMA. Been there done that LOL

 

It should have been like 4 years ago pugs q and premades q. Tbh I was in the 4 man premades back then but the player base got so bad, I didn't really see the point of stacking a group.

 

I don't see the glory in of wiping bad pugs where you have a huge advantage.

 

The 3-4 man premade of "good" players vs pugs is outdated for the current state of pvp. At this point, it's Neanderthal.

Edited by AocaVII
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I'm going to use dog training as an illustration. Let's say you let your dog out before work each day. Just before you are ready to leave, you call the dog to come. When he gets to you, Monday thru Friday, you praise+pet and then put him in his crate and go to work. On Saturday, you skip the praise+pet but you put him in the truck and go to dog park. Your dog's recall command is going to be rock solid because you have consistently reinforced the idea that every time he comes SOMETHING good is going to happen.

 

Now let's say you get sloppy and Monday thru Friday you skip the praise+pet and just put him in his crate and go to work, but on Saturdays we get in the truck and go to dog park. Your dog's come command is going to fall apart into "I come when I feel like it" because most of the time he's not getting anything out of it.

 

Players are the same, and so are employees. If they're not getting any reward for what they are doing (even if it's just praise or the feeling of satisfaction of a job well done) they aren't going to be doing it for very much longer.

 

PVP before the changes was primarily three groups of people: 1) people who farm dps numbers in mid (I have never been really clear on what they get out of pvp, arena practice maybe?); 2) people who don't have enough pvp associates for a premade but do understand to focus on objectives; and 3) premades. The skill level of all three groups was varied. You'd have the newbies importing their other mmo habits up to the people where you see their name on your team and know it's gonna be a good match.

 

What I'm seeing with the new changes is that group #2 is dwindling. The people I used to see regularly aren't queing anymore and participation is narrowing down to groups 1 and 3, or more to the point, the premades farming the number farmers for wins. Trying to get the cats herded to focusing on the objectives is a lot more difficult than it used to be.

 

Before, even if you lost you still made progress on your weekly. It wasn't great, but you at least got something for your trouble. It made the match not feel like a waste of time if you got put in with a bunch of number farmers or new people. It kept the new people hooked enough to get better. Now, with that removed, the competitive loners aren't bothering and the newbies are largely falling into the number farmers' bad habits.

 

If the purpose of this change was to make premades mandatory for pvp and/or to narrow participation to premades, well, congratulations, mission accomplished. I don't think SWTOR has a big enough player base to support this change, particularly with how many games both cast a wide net for pvp participation and reinforce both active participation and winning.

 

If, however, the goal was to make the weekly harder so people would pvp more or make people try harder in matches, this was the opposite tactic to take. Upping the value for a win without removing the incentive to participate would have been a better choice -- kept the competitive loners in the q.

 

Most of the premades that are OP don't care if they win. They just show off DPS numbers, like it's hard thing to get top/high dps. What I don't get is what are you showing off killing pugs and awful players. What is that even ? LMAO

 

May as well go parse on a target dummy. LOOOOOOOOOOL

Edited by AocaVII
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No, the requirement to win is fine.

 

I like to play multiple toons. It sucks completing one daily in 15 min for one character and farming the next daily for 6 friggin' hours because his gear is 270. It's stupid and only serves to waste my time and let my membership lapse. The changes only serve to alienate casual players. Why? Ranked is already there for the hardcore pvpers. Why make things worse for the casual player?

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It's a solid change that nudges folks actually trying to win. The devs have consistently said that they can give better mission rewards this way. Imagine if the flashpoint missions were to complete 5 flashpoints or fail 10? Do you really think that would be a good experience for anyone involved?

 

Also, heaven forbid that an online game has incentives for group play. Maybe people could try to group up for a change? You can even form your own group -- can't be booted from your own group -- and queue that way.

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Even though this thread is related to PvP, I believe that this should have been posted in the Suggestion Box located within General Discussion.

 

The suggestions take like 5 years to implement maybe, you're grandkids can play it when it's fixed LOOOOOL

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It's a solid change that nudges folks actually trying to win. The devs have consistently said that they can give better mission rewards this way. Imagine if the flashpoint missions were to complete 5 flashpoints or fail 10? Do you really think that would be a good experience for anyone involved?

 

Also, heaven forbid that an online game has incentives for group play. Maybe people could try to group up for a change? You can even form your own group -- can't be booted from your own group -- and queue that way.

 

The issue is priorities; you have people in WZs all trying to do different things. A lot don't care about pvp rewards. A lot don't care if they win.

 

In summary wz have :

1. Deathmatchers

2. Dps show offs

3. People who try to win and do objectives

4. People that have no idea what's going on

People pay there subs; they will play how they want

 

It's implementing without insight to what actually goes on in the games. In a business, you evaluate and use metrics to see what's going on before you implement solutions!!! lol

 

Seriously how are you even supposed to cap nodes and do objectives now when almost every match has 4-5 stealth. Why did no one think of that? LOL

 

It's just a total mess. IDC I come on do my thing in PVP and log off. I'm quite content. I can't be bothered with the fixes, you can't fix it at this point there's not enough players to do the things to actually fix it.

 

You would need:

-Separate qs for deathmatches, no ranked don't work for that (not enough plp to make it fair)

-Separate qs for people who want to win and do objectives

-At this, point you need separate qs for premades bc the pug player base can not beat premades. At one time it was very posibble and happened quite often believe it or not.

 

The time already has passed.

 

Does anyone serious believe that increasing the rewards is going to stop people from deathmatching and do other things besides winning. I would bet my life on it. It will change nothing.

 

I'll sell you the Brooklyn bridge for a dollar? You want to buy it? LOLOLOLOLOOLOL

 

Again, this may have worked about 4 years ago when guilds and groups did both high dps and objectives but people are too nervous and fragile that someone else my get top deeps so they just dps and nothing else LOL

 

Believe or not you can get top or high dps and do objectives but I guess the talent pool has lessened or people can't do two things at once lol

Edited by AocaVII
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The issue is priorities; you have people in WZs all trying to do different things. A lot don't care about pvp rewards. A lot don't care if they win.

 

In summary wz have :

1. Deathmatchers

2. Dps show offs

3. People who try to win and do objectives

4. People that have no idea what's going on

People pay there subs; they will play how they want

 

Yup...

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I'm going to use dog training as an illustration. Let's say you let your dog out before work each day. Just before you are ready to leave, you call the dog to come. When he gets to you, Monday thru Friday, you praise+pet and then put him in his crate and go to work. On Saturday, you skip the praise+pet but you put him in the truck and go to dog park. Your dog's recall command is going to be rock solid because you have consistently reinforced the idea that every time he comes SOMETHING good is going to happen.

 

Now let's say you get sloppy and Monday thru Friday you skip the praise+pet and just put him in his crate and go to work, but on Saturdays we get in the truck and go to dog park. Your dog's come command is going to fall apart into "I come when I feel like it" because most of the time he's not getting anything out of it.

 

Players are the same, and so are employees. If they're not getting any reward for what they are doing (even if it's just praise or the feeling of satisfaction of a job well done) they aren't going to be doing it for very much longer.

 

PVP before the changes was primarily three groups of people: 1) people who farm dps numbers in mid (I have never been really clear on what they get out of pvp, arena practice maybe?); 2) people who don't have enough pvp associates for a premade but do understand to focus on objectives; and 3) premades. The skill level of all three groups was varied. You'd have the newbies importing their other mmo habits up to the people where you see their name on your team and know it's gonna be a good match.

 

What I'm seeing with the new changes is that group #2 is dwindling. The people I used to see regularly aren't queing anymore and participation is narrowing down to groups 1 and 3, or more to the point, the premades farming the number farmers for wins. Trying to get the cats herded to focusing on the objectives is a lot more difficult than it used to be.

 

Before, even if you lost you still made progress on your weekly. It wasn't great, but you at least got something for your trouble. It made the match not feel like a waste of time if you got put in with a bunch of number farmers or new people. It kept the new people hooked enough to get better. Now, with that removed, the competitive loners aren't bothering and the newbies are largely falling into the number farmers' bad habits.

 

If the purpose of this change was to make premades mandatory for pvp and/or to narrow participation to premades, well, congratulations, mission accomplished. I don't think SWTOR has a big enough player base to support this change, particularly with how many games both cast a wide net for pvp participation and reinforce both active participation and winning.

 

If, however, the goal was to make the weekly harder so people would pvp more or make people try harder in matches, this was the opposite tactic to take. Upping the value for a win without removing the incentive to participate would have been a better choice -- kept the competitive loners in the q.

 

My thoughts exactly. The could have just increased the win requirement number to complete the missions and weekly instead of making it win only.

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[snip]

In summary wz have :

1. Deathmatchers

2. Dps show offs

3. People who try to win and do objectives

4. People that have no idea what's going on

People pay there subs; they will play how they want

 

[snip]

 

It's been suggested by a number of us that Bioware ought to spin off Arenas in to their own queue. That way folks who want to deatchmatch (albeit in a team form) can just run those. It has the added bonus of giving those that want to do ranked an easily accessible game mode.

 

DPS show-offs, people who fight in the middle of nowhere, etc. are a burden all PvP modes have. There's no simple solution for that.

 

By structuring the rewards and the penalties right you can nudge people towards playing objectives. Anecdotally, things appear to be trending towards that. As with any changes it takes time for them to percolate through the player base.

 

Yes, new people can often be lost in content that is, well, new to them. Time fixes that issue, one way or another.

 

Playing the way you want is fine when you're doing solo content. When you join group activities playing the way you want gives way to what is needed for the group to succeed. In an operation would you tolerate a person constantly pulling trash, breaking CC, pulling the boss every moment they could, not doing mechanics? The same group orientation is expected of people when they PvP as in when they do group PvE. One disruptive person's sub is worth less than the subs of 7 or 15 other people who do want play properly.

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It's been suggested by a number of us that Bioware ought to spin off Arenas in to their own queue. That way folks who want to deatchmatch (albeit in a team form) can just run those. It has the added bonus of giving those that want to do ranked an easily accessible game mode.

 

DPS show-offs, people who fight in the middle of nowhere, etc. are a burden all PvP modes have. There's no simple solution for that.

 

By structuring the rewards and the penalties right you can nudge people towards playing objectives. Anecdotally, things appear to be trending towards that. As with any changes it takes time for them to percolate through the player base.

 

Yes, new people can often be lost in content that is, well, new to them. Time fixes that issue, one way or another.

 

Playing the way you want is fine when you're doing solo content. When you join group activities playing the way you want gives way to what is needed for the group to succeed. In an operation would you tolerate a person constantly pulling trash, breaking CC, pulling the boss every moment they could, not doing mechanics? The same group orientation is expected of people when they PvP as in when they do group PvE. One disruptive person's sub is worth less than the subs of 7 or 15 other people who do want play properly.

 

I been watching the PVP deteriorate over the years. The player base for PVP, most of the good players are all gone (I mean I must have said this 100 times do people realize this? I don't feel like I'm being heard LOL)

 

I came here with about idk 150 or more people I knew from SWGS. There's no one that even plays this game anymore out of that 150. I'm just one person multiply that by the 1000s who came here from SWGS, most of them for PVP.

 

To do the things proposed, you would need the population to do it. We don't have it anymore lol

 

As I mentioned in the other thread today, take it for what it is; below average PVP for many different reasons that can't be fixed at this point. I try to be happy with how it is. I mean come here make suggestions to improve it etc. I'm not discouraging that.

 

But LMAO don't expect a miracle fix or series of fixes or depend on other players changing how they play, even if it's extremely selfish. They are not going to stop doing what they do for you or for the benefit of the game nor for rewards they don't care about.

 

OPS are different you can choose the whole group. You can't do that in pvp. You have to live with what you get LOL

 

You have to try to find pleasure in it somehow. ATM mine is playing a Merc using the utilities to kill stealth classes (bc there's 4 in every wz practically lol) using net, stealth scan off cool down or when they are at low health to make them "unhappy" and kiting like a freak lol. It's funny.

 

 

At this point you can't make separate qz for deathmatching and other variations of what people want to do. You would be waiting 20 mins for a pop if you even got one. It would be regs into ranked 2.0 lol

 

I don't mean to sound dreadful but people have to look at the reality of it lol

 

PS : Just change the rewards requirement, it's just pissing people off when they are already pissed off about how bad the PVP is in the first place. They will eventually unsub. Strict reward requirements and lockouts will NOT fix regs pvp. It's just adding fuel to the fire of discontentment LMAO

Edited by AocaVII
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Oh yes, terrible devs for making what every other mmo makes. The penalties are there for a reason. The penalty is not the problem. Pre-mades are. They need to make regs a solo or no more than 2 man queue.

 

In most other MMOs that I've played, the deserter penalty, if there is one, is a win-win for all the players, including the deserter. First, it is so short it's hardly noticeable. Second, if you leave a match, it means you're less likely to backfill the match you just left. Everybody wins.

 

In SWTOR, the deserter penalty is lose-lose. First, it's longer than most matches. So if your goal is to get as many matches in as fast as possible to get your Daily/Weekly done, the best thing to do is to stay in and not leave, regardless of whether you like or are any good at a particular type of match. Lots of people hate arenas, lots of people hate OPG, lots of people hate Huttballs, lots of people seem to hate any PVP where there is any objective more complicated than deathmatch.

 

If we could queue only for certain types of matches, the same way we queue for FPs, this would be a non-issue. I would happily queue for Regs PvP all the time if I could uncheck the box for the Huttballs queue.

 

I agree with you on the pre-mades. Keep the premades limited to Ranked, keep Regs limited to solos and pairs. I almost always queue solo and would only be likely to start queueing in a "group" if I was teaching my son how PvP works in SWTOR (and he's six, so that's not in the near future, he can stay in Cyrodil for now).

 

Also no, Huttball is awesome and your post proves why the penalty is necessary cause in a tirade of self interest you ruin the game for some and the queue for others. So, yes, you do deserve a penalty if you do that.

 

Huttballs sucked in beta, it sucked at release, and it still sucks today after nine years of development. Cool if you think it's fun though. Have at.

 

If anyone thinks anything written there was a "tirade" or "self-interest" then they have clearly had a joyously sheltered experience on the internet, or they have the reading comprehension of a not particularly bright trout. Either way, I explicitly said that, for the past decade, I wouldn't waste anyone's time by joining a Huttballs match at the beginning, and would leave immediately so that someone who did enjoy it, and was thus more likely to do well and see the team to victory, could take my place. But if it were near the end, I would stay and do my best to help my team win, to play to the objectives, regardless of the likelihood of our winning, and do my best to be a good sport about it.

 

With the lose-lose deserter penalty, Bioware burned that bridge. If I zone into a Huttballs match, I'm not even going to try until they implement full avatar collision detection. Until then, mid-field dance-off it is, where I shall pine for AoC's Hallingdans.

 

This does make me think that all my characters will need to have a "go-go" outfit.

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In most other MMOs that I've played, the deserter penalty, if there is one, is a win-win for all the players, including the deserter. First, it is so short it's hardly noticeable. Second, if you leave a match, it means you're less likely to backfill the match you just left. Everybody wins.

 

In SWTOR, the deserter penalty is lose-lose. First, it's longer than most matches. So if your goal is to get as many matches in as fast as possible to get your Daily/Weekly done, the best thing to do is to stay in and not leave, regardless of whether you like or are any good at a particular type of match. Lots of people hate arenas, lots of people hate OPG, lots of people hate Huttballs, lots of people seem to hate any PVP where there is any objective more complicated than deathmatch.

 

If we could queue only for certain types of matches, the same way we queue for FPs, this would be a non-issue. I would happily queue for Regs PvP all the time if I could uncheck the box for the Huttballs queue.

 

I agree with you on the pre-mades. Keep the premades limited to Ranked, keep Regs limited to solos and pairs. I almost always queue solo and would only be likely to start queueing in a "group" if I was teaching my son how PvP works in SWTOR (and he's six, so that's not in the near future, he can stay in Cyrodil for now).

 

 

 

15m is the standard of these penalties. They are not rewards for the leaver, they are penalties. They are not supposed to be convenient. They are supposed to incentivize you from not leaving games and making a worse experience for everyone else.

 

Sure, we are getting WZ selection from what the devs said. But, don't think it will be all roses. It will mean less map variety and longer queue times. Not so cool when you think of that eh?

 

 

Huttballs sucked in beta, it sucked at release, and it still sucks today after nine years of development. Cool if you think it's fun though. Have at.

 

If anyone thinks anything written there was a "tirade" or "self-interest" then they have clearly had a joyously sheltered experience on the internet, or they have the reading comprehension of a not particularly bright trout. Either way, I explicitly said that, for the past decade, I wouldn't waste anyone's time by joining a Huttballs match at the beginning, and would leave immediately so that someone who did enjoy it, and was thus more likely to do well and see the team to victory, could take my place. But if it were near the end, I would stay and do my best to help my team win, to play to the objectives, regardless of the likelihood of our winning, and do my best to be a good sport about it.

 

With the lose-lose deserter penalty, Bioware burned that bridge. If I zone into a Huttballs match, I'm not even going to try until they implement full avatar collision detection. Until then, mid-field dance-off it is, where I shall pine for AoC's Hallingdans.

 

This does make me think that all my characters will need to have a "go-go" outfit.

 

Nope. Huttball has been awesome since day one bar net code issues which have nothing to do with it. You don't like it? It's a you thing.

 

I mean, you say that but then proceed to do it.

 

"Either way, I explicitly said that, for the past decade, I wouldn't waste anyone's time by joining a Huttballs match at the beginning, and would leave immediately so that someone who did enjoy it, and was thus more likely to do well and see the team to victory, could take my place. "

 

Which is you saying: I joined for Warzones, but i don't like this map and will send another person here that might or might not like this map and then he leaves too, etc. leading to trains, losing matches and queue ruined cause this was allowed in the first place.

It is exactly an example of the selfish behaviour i was talking about. You want to think you are doing a good thing, but you aren't. You are exploiting the system. You queued for a Warzone and you got a warzone. I can understand when it comes to Arena cause it's a different game structure (4v4), but you were doing no one any favors by leaving those matches.

 

It's win-lose if anything. Win cause matches are now more stable wihtout people leaving and joining all the time and actually trying to win, rather than just lolz about (though there are some who still do that ofc).

Lose is only for those that like you would leave matches at the first sign of not being exactly what you wanted.

 

Hey, we will see how that is gonna end up. I just hope the queue timers aren't so screwed up that it will be end of regs as well.

Edited by Nemmar
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[snippity]

If we could queue only for certain types of matches, the same way we queue for FPs, this would be a non-issue. I would happily queue for Regs PvP all the time if I could uncheck the box for the Huttballs queue.

 

Having seen a bigger MMO add map blocklists and then later remove it, I suspect folks are going to end up dislike it in Swtor when their queues get longer. Someone queuing for all the maps is going to find matches faster than someone who cherry picks what they want. Sure, some will be fine with a longer queue time, but I suspect the average player won't. I also wonder how the devs will handle rewards. Currently with Flashpoints you don't get a daily reward if you block a flashpoint.

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Oh yes, terrible devs for making what every other mmo makes. The penalties are there for a reason. The penalty is not the problem. Pre-mades are. They need to make regs a solo or no more than 2 man queue.

 

Also no, Huttball is awesome and your post proves why the penalty is necessary cause in a tirade of self interest you ruin the game for some and the queue for others. So, yes, you do deserve a penalty if you do that.

 

If you don't have friends to play with don't try to make it a rule for everyone.

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I like the way that people can see the match going south, so they just mess around being idiots until the match ends to avoid the 15m lockout.

 

At least before the changes, there were quitters who could be backfilled with someone with a reason to help the team, since they could get 1 match point even for a loss.

 

Now a back-fill has zero incentive to aid any team, in fact it is in their interest to end it quickest by not defending nodes, calling incs and suchlike. so ruining the experience for the other 7 players, who benefit the least from those selfish players.

 

PVP is a mess for many reasons. Why double down and make it even worse?

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Since Huttballs was introduced in Beta, I have voluntarily played two games. One the first time I tried it. It sounded stupid and like an esport the engine wasn't designed to handle. A ball-game in an MMO with no clipping? I was right. It sucked. That was the last time I played it and went back to focusing on other aspects of the beta. After the game released, I thought I'd give it a try. Huttballs still sucked. Here we are nine years later, Huttballs still sucks.

 

OG Huttball map is hands down the best pvp map/game mode in any mmo.

 

PVP before the changes was primarily three groups of people: 1) people who farm dps numbers in mid (I have never been really clear on what they get out of pvp, arena practice maybe?); 2) people who don't have enough pvp associates for a premade but do understand to focus on objectives; and 3) premades. The skill level of all three groups was varied. You'd have the newbies importing their other mmo habits up to the people where you see their name on your team and know it's gonna be a good match.

 

What I'm seeing with the new changes is that group #2 is dwindling. The people I used to see regularly aren't queing anymore and participation is narrowing down to groups 1 and 3, or more to the point, the premades farming the number farmers for wins. Trying to get the cats herded to focusing on the objectives is a lot more difficult than it used to be.

 

I'm so tired of the number farmer complaint. I've come to realize that people who complain about number farmers are the ones doing 2k dps. You realize you can do good dps AND the objective right?

Edited by Raansu
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If you don't have friends to play with don't try to make it a rule for everyone.

 

You don't need friends to start a group. Just sit on fleet and advertise for a few people to do the daily with. If you're the one building the group then you can remove anyone who you feel is being disruptive to your group. You may never interact with these folks again, but then you might actually find people you like to group up with. I mean, that's how we did it in MMOs before group finders...

 

TL;DR: Be your own pug premade.

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