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New PvP Daily Weekly Requirements


Amunra-amunray

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the only thing in common with all your losing teams is you.

 

You really shouldn’t be personally attacking them solely based on that because that’s not necessarily the players fault if the matchmaking puts you with the 7 worst players in the queue. It also doesn’t take into account premades (if there were any).

 

Bioware have stated in the past that the whole premade is rated at the same lvl as their best player. So even if they have a terrible player, that player gets rated as high as the best on the premade.

But what happens when all the players on the premade are close to each other in rating? So close in fact that any could be considered the best in the premade?

 

My experience is it puts one better player on the other team with a bunch of bad players vs the premade with a bunch of bad players.

The thing is one player can’t carry 7 people. But 4 can carry 4 players against one good player and 7 bad or even a average.

 

A lot of matches are luck of the draw on class composition as well as this hidden matchmaking. You can have lucky runs where you win 20 in a row, but you can also theoretically have runs of losing 20 in a row.

 

Class stacking is way too rampant to be ignored as a major factor sometimes. I had so many matches yesterday that were all ranged vs all melee or all stealth vs all non stealth.

This gets amplified if a premade decides to class stack. Ie, how about 4 operatives, 4 sins (bad, but not so much now) or 4 Powertechs combined burst dps on you is enough to rip a hole into the seventh circle of hell (I’m sure I saw a flaming face there a few times yesterday).

And those guys don’t even need to be in a premade. Most of them weren’t, it was random class stacking. But then you see others who do it on purpose.

 

It’s entirely possible to lose 20 matches in a row even if you are the best player in the game because of who is put on your team. The only way a player can mitigate that is to form a premade with 3 other really good players. And then we run into “that other” issue of premades vs full pugs.

 

Until Bioware fix the match making and class stacking and premades vs full pug teams (that aren’t balanced), then this argument that it’s the players fault they lost is a solid as liquid water.

 

If they just told us how the matchmaking is supposed to work, then we could test it and offer suggestions or show them what needs to be fixed. But I honestly don’t think Bioware care because it’s regs and they think only ranked ELO needs to work. What they don’t get is this broken reg matchmaking and the other changes to deserter debuffing and no mission advancement for losing, is making pvp less enjoyable and more people will stop playing it.

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You really shouldn’t be personally attacking them solely based on that because that’s not necessarily the players fault if the matchmaking puts you with the 7 worst players in the queue. It also doesn’t take into account premades (if there were any).

It was a statement of fact. Not a personal attack. There are hundreds of variables at play which could affect the outcome of a warzone. The only one which would be constant across 20 consecutive losses is the player experiencing them.

 

If a player is losing 20 games in a row, they need to figure out what to change in their own behavior. Either improve their skills, focus on an objective that will improve the odds of winning, or group up with other players and use voice chat to coordinate. It's not like the game needs to give people free wins. I feel like so many people play this game as a stealth character hiding at the goal line in huttball or solo attacking a pylon in AHG and wondering why they keep losing.

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It was a statement of fact. Not a personal attack. There are hundreds of variables at play which could affect the outcome of a warzone. The only one which would be constant across 20 consecutive losses is the player experiencing them.

 

If a player is losing 20 games in a row, they need to figure out what to change in their own behavior. Either improve their skills, focus on an objective that will improve the odds of winning, or group up with other players and use voice chat to coordinate. It's not like the game needs to give people free wins. I feel like so many people play this game as a stealth character hiding at the goal line in huttball or solo attacking a pylon in AHG and wondering why they keep losing.

 

They have zero control over who the matchmaking puts them with Or if it class stacks in matches. That is one of the biggest problems. The player has no control over that. They can be the best player in the world and not be able to over come that. So I think your “facts” are a little skewed so you can make a personal attack.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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if in unranked you only come across 10 arenas to begin with and the players present act as if it was a game of 8 so it's a massacre, then you come across games where the players do not call when the points are attack on novare or yavin and you have your 20 defeats
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It's not like the game needs to give people free wins. I feel like so many people play this game as a stealth character hiding at the goal line in huttball or solo attacking a pylon in AHG and wondering why they keep losing.

Truth^^^^

This is a real issue in the game and it usually results in a loss because players don't properly contribute.

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Truth^^^^

This is a real issue in the game and it usually results in a loss because players don't properly contribute.

 

This is also partly true. But it’s also true that you have no control if those same bad players are put on your team every match.

You’d think at some point the queue would split them up, but it doesn’t and you are expect to try and carry them by yourself most of the time.

 

I had a Hutt ball today and if it wasn’t for 1 other player on our team we would have lost. The two of us carried that whole team and most of the time the enemy was all over us 4-3 v1-2 of us (who ever had the ball). While the rest of the people only our team literally chased 3 guys all match trying to 6v3 and still dying and not killing them.

 

I rarely do much damage in Hutt ball if I’m running the ball or supporting or moving to intercept. But because our team didn’t try, me and this other person had to score (5-0) and also race back and stop their ball carriers from scoring. So at the end, both of us topped the dps, kills, medals and objective points of both teams, I scored 4 times and one assist. But I couldn’t have done it with out his help.

 

If I hadn’t had someone as equally competent as myself and willing to play Hutt ball properly, we would have lost badly, I couldn’t have carried the team by myself because the timer often blows you up if you try.

Looking at the teams stats at the end totally blew my mind. The rest of our team had spent all game death matching and still did half my dps.

 

Most of the time it comes down to player attitudes too and if they are willing to play to win or just farm numbers. At the moment there are still way more people interested in farming numbers than playing objectives. Which is why I pointed out that it’s not that hard to lose 20 in a row if you get muppets on your team every game.

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This is also partly true. But it’s also true that you have no control if those same bad players are put on your team every match.

You’d think at some point the queue would split them up, but it doesn’t and you are expect to try and carry them by yourself most of the time.

 

I had a Hutt ball today and if it wasn’t for 1 other player on our team we would have lost. The two of us carried that whole team and most of the time the enemy was all over us 4-3 v1-2 of us (who ever had the ball). While the rest of the people only our team literally chased 3 guys all match trying to 6v3 and still dying and not killing them.

 

I rarely do much damage in Hutt ball if I’m running the ball or supporting or moving to intercept. But because our team didn’t try, me and this other person had to score (5-0) and also race back and stop their ball carriers from scoring. So at the end, both of us topped the dps, kills, medals and objective points of both teams, I scored 4 times and one assist. But I couldn’t have done it with out his help.

 

If I hadn’t had someone as equally competent as myself and willing to play Hutt ball properly, we would have lost badly, I couldn’t have carried the team by myself because the timer often blows you up if you try.

Looking at the teams stats at the end totally blew my mind. The rest of our team had spent all game death matching and still did half my dps.

 

Most of the time it comes down to player attitudes too and if they are willing to play to win or just farm numbers. At the moment there are still way more people interested in farming numbers than playing objectives. Which is why I pointed out that it’s not that hard to lose 20 in a row if you get muppets on your team every game.

 

Any player can group up with other players and play objectives and virtually guarantee victory in most games. On SS, there is a pub guild which queues heal tank 2 dps comps and wins constantly despite a significant skill deficit. They play objectives and they win. Unless a player is truly terrible, incapable of even doing a bare minimum to get themselves a win, they will be able to improve their game experience dramatically by grouping up.

 

Frustrated after losing a game because 6 out of 8 teammates weren't playing objectives? Invite the one player who was willing to play your way into your group. In the next game, frustrated your team has 4 players in a group who are farming at mid but 2 other players are struggling to win? Invite them to your group. Have 4 DPS now, or multiple tanks/healers? Someone can respec to be able to queue. Now you can win unless you decide to go toe to toe with the farmers. Even if the other team ends up with 8 S-tier players who are zerging around in a big pack farming you, you can adjust to take the nodes they leave and keep them playing running simulator. You don't have to go toe to toe with every top tier player. Just avoid them.

 

This is really shockingly simple and it's a sad statement on this game that people don't understand it.

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Any player can group up with other players and play objectives and virtually guarantee victory in most games. On SS, there is a pub guild which queues heal tank 2 dps comps and wins constantly despite a significant skill deficit. They play objectives and they win. Unless a player is truly terrible, incapable of even doing a bare minimum to get themselves a win, they will be able to improve their game experience dramatically by grouping up.

 

Frustrated after losing a game because 6 out of 8 teammates weren't playing objectives? Invite the one player who was willing to play your way into your group. In the next game, frustrated your team has 4 players in a group who are farming at mid but 2 other players are struggling to win? Invite them to your group. Have 4 DPS now, or multiple tanks/healers? Someone can respec to be able to queue. Now you can win unless you decide to go toe to toe with the farmers. Even if the other team ends up with 8 S-tier players who are zerging around in a big pack farming you, you can adjust to take the nodes they leave and keep them playing running simulator. You don't have to go toe to toe with every top tier player. Just avoid them.

 

This is really shockingly simple and it's a sad statement on this game that people don't understand it.

 

This still keeps going over you’re head or you are just plainly refusing to acknowledge the obvious. A solo queued player has no control over who is in their team or how they will play.

 

And that does not make the solo queued player bad because they lose 20 matches in a row.

 

Not sure how much easier I can put it so you understand.

 

If the best player in the game queues solo in a pug team, they cannot carry 7 people who are bad, who don’t try or are completely out matched by the majority of the other team.

 

If we follow yours and another personas argument. That player who might be recognised as being the best in the game, is suddenly relegated to being the worst player in the game because the matchmaking system put them with a bunch of muppets for 20 matches?

 

Or your last argument was it’s their fault they lost 20 matches because they didn’t want to start a premade? So that also makes them a bad player?

 

Honestly, why does it always comeback to name calling or telling people to premade if they can’t win in a full pug vs pug match because the matchmaking class stacks or tries to get one person to carry a team?

 

The fundamental problem is the system and how it match makes and also the broken (working as intended) class stacking.

 

That is why you can play 20 matches and not win any of them for no fault of your own. But for some reason that’s the players fault and not the system?

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Or your last argument was it’s their fault they lost 20 matches because they didn’t want to start a premade? So that also makes them a bad player?

 

Honestly, why does it always comeback to name calling or telling people to premade if they can’t win in a full pug vs pug match because the matchmaking class stacks or tries to get one person to carry a team?

 

Because a player who loses 20 matches in a row, while refusing to take even basic steps to examine why they are losing and refusing to group with like minded players, is a bad player.

 

The fundamental problem is the system and how it match makes and also the broken (working as intended) class stacking.

 

That is why you can play 20 matches and not win any of them for no fault of your own. But for some reason that’s the players fault and not the system?

 

Class stacking is a problem, but it does not explain 20 losses in a row. That requires ignorance of game mechanics, tactics, and refusal to form a group to better your odds of having other objective oriented players.

 

Getting beaten continuously by a premade group? If they are in your faction, /who them when you get out of WZ and wait till they are in a WZ to queue again. If they aren't in your faction, take your chances and wait 6 or 7 minutes before queuing again.

 

I'm not actually sure I could try to lose 20 matches in a row and succeed. Maybe on a sorc where you could pull people away from objectives so they can't cap, or pull ball carriers into fire. Even then, a team with even two players who are trying to win would circumvent this trolling. So it comes back to finding a group of like minded players...

 

People need to take responsibility for themselves. It's extremely unlikely there will ever be a solo only queue for 8v8s. The game does not have the population to support that. With that in mind, you need to take the appropriate actions to win, which might include grouping up if you aren't good enough to carry.

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  • 3 weeks later...
You really shouldn’t be personally attacking them solely based on that because that’s not necessarily the players fault if the matchmaking puts you with the 7 worst players in the queue. It also doesn’t take into account premades (if there were any).

 

Bioware have stated in the past that the whole premade is rated at the same lvl as their best player. So even if they have a terrible player, that player gets rated as high as the best on the premade.

But what happens when all the players on the premade are close to each other in rating? So close in fact that any could be considered the best in the premade?

 

My experience is it puts one better player on the other team with a bunch of bad players vs the premade with a bunch of bad players.

The thing is one player can’t carry 7 people. But 4 can carry 4 players against one good player and 7 bad or even a average.

 

A lot of matches are luck of the draw on class composition as well as this hidden matchmaking. You can have lucky runs where you win 20 in a row, but you can also theoretically have runs of losing 20 in a row.

 

Class stacking is way too rampant to be ignored as a major factor sometimes. I had so many matches yesterday that were all ranged vs all melee or all stealth vs all non stealth.

This gets amplified if a premade decides to class stack. Ie, how about 4 operatives, 4 sins (bad, but not so much now) or 4 Powertechs combined burst dps on you is enough to rip a hole into the seventh circle of hell (I’m sure I saw a flaming face there a few times yesterday).

And those guys don’t even need to be in a premade. Most of them weren’t, it was random class stacking. But then you see others who do it on purpose.

 

It’s entirely possible to lose 20 matches in a row even if you are the best player in the game because of who is put on your team. The only way a player can mitigate that is to form a premade with 3 other really good players. And then we run into “that other” issue of premades vs full pugs.

 

Until Bioware fix the match making and class stacking and premades vs full pug teams (that aren’t balanced), then this argument that it’s the players fault they lost is a solid as liquid water.

 

If they just told us how the matchmaking is supposed to work, then we could test it and offer suggestions or show them what needs to be fixed. But I honestly don’t think Bioware care because it’s regs and they think only ranked ELO needs to work. What they don’t get is this broken reg matchmaking and the other changes to deserter debuffing and no mission advancement for losing, is making pvp less enjoyable and more people will stop playing it.

 

Well said.

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  • 4 months later...
its not sigh it's a fact, i doubled damage on mando(i am a avg player nothing great) compared to 280~290 irating mando on our team. it's an mmo ofc gear matters. try going into ranked with less than 306 full tricked out bisd full armor set and watch how fast you lose.

 

It is sigh, because every response is to some things i say and not the entire picture.... BOLSTER is not required for 75 pvp and should be removed. The gear can be farmed elsewhere. Additionally, number of wins a person has should not be a factor on calculating the random placement of people in warzone groups. it should be first enter first fill. Period. Alternate, between both side. If this side has 2 and the other one has 1 then 1 adds to 1. if one has 4 then the next three go to backfill. Also Ignore list should work for both playing with and playing against. the only ones who care about the queues slowing are the ones who love taking advantage. And , if it remains then diminishing returns needs to be added to all warzones just like PvE instances do, Other bolstered arenas are bots so who cares, but warzones are other people playing and this current system is BROKEN.

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  • 1 month later...
Because a player who loses 20 matches in a row, while refusing to take even basic steps to examine why they are losing and refusing to group with like minded players, is a bad player.

 

 

 

Class stacking is a problem, but it does not explain 20 losses in a row. That requires ignorance of game mechanics, tactics, and refusal to form a group to better your odds of having other objective oriented players.

 

Getting beaten continuously by a premade group? If they are in your faction, /who them when you get out of WZ and wait till they are in a WZ to queue again. If they aren't in your faction, take your chances and wait 6 or 7 minutes before queuing again.

two quick observations:

  1. premades tend to find their own level. what I mean by that is good players don't normally grp with noobies or bad players. there are some exceptions like when good pvpers go into WZs with their pve guildies. but usually, what you have is a lot of premades of relatively evenly skilled players within each premade. so that's one "fact" of WZ dynamics.
  2. who cares about objectives? when I left the game (1 year ago? 2? whenever tacticals were about to drop), the best players didn't spend much time in WZs to begin with. The best players that regularly queued regs were "regstar" guilds that ignored objectives (usually) and had fun fluffing the scoreboard or getting into tough situations to see if they could get out of it. or if they landed against a premade from their own guild, they'd spend time TDM with them.

 

regarding the first observation: "just create your own premade" is not a solution. "git gud" kind of is, though. both of these are true because if you aren't good, your premade likely won't be any good, and will therefore hurt rather than help your chances of winning.

 

number 2 is the real issue though. who actually cares about regs? when I left, virtually no one, except the PVE dudes who came in there on conquest weeks and ran around like chickens with their heads cut off. so they were just fodder. there were always stealth guys who played objectives (and why wouldn't they? roll with the ball, ninja a node, ninja a door.) other than that though? it was mostly tdm. rarely did anyone respond to a call.

 

BW made objectives (WZs) irrelevant by taking away 8v8 ranked and making the end game TDM (arenas). PvP guilds that took 8v8 maps seriously disappeared. And the BW solution to this seems to be to make reg WZs a zero sum quest objective. <giggle> honestly, if I cared about these quests, I'd be angry too. PvP guilds that play objectives are rare. regs are absolutely flooded with players that are clueless (I once had a sentinel curse me out and say he was reporting me b/c he couldn't solo me ON A MANDO - when asana was dominating 1v1's).

 

And now when you're in one of these cheesefest WZs where the good players ignore calls or your team is trying to carry the conquest PvE squad, you can't just leave w/o getting smacked with a 15min deserter buff. L. O. L. this is comic gold. if I cared at all about regs anymore, gawd, that would really, really infuriate me. but w/e. I'm back (ty alrik). I might check out yolos again but will prolly just play through the story (something BW is pretty good at) and have some forum pvp (which I can do as much or as little of as I like and leave w/e I feel like. kek).

 

edit: also, if you're losing 20/20, I have to agree with this dude I quoted, that sounds like a you problem. no one is that unlucky on a consistent basis. I'd suggest leaving to get out of rotation with the ppl in your team, but...well...LOL. BW.... heh.

 

edit: I'm a perennial silver solo rated, so I'm not exactly skilled. I could carry reg arenas when they popped. often winning 3v4's. it's not ranked competition in those reg arenas.

Edited by foxmob
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It is sigh, because every response is to some things i say and not the entire picture.... BOLSTER is not required for 75 pvp and should be removed. The gear can be farmed elsewhere. Additionally, number of wins a person has should not be a factor on calculating the random placement of people in warzone groups. it should be first enter first fill. Period. Alternate, between both side. If this side has 2 and the other one has 1 then 1 adds to 1. if one has 4 then the next three go to backfill. Also Ignore list should work for both playing with and playing against. the only ones who care about the queues slowing are the ones who love taking advantage. And , if it remains then diminishing returns needs to be added to all warzones just like PvE instances do, Other bolstered arenas are bots so who cares, but warzones are other people playing and this current system is BROKEN.

 

Have you ever considered that maybe the people who do all that damage are just really good at playing their class? Or that they have a healer and/or a tank behind them for maximum survivability so they can live long enough to do those numbers? BW already made 306 gear a requirement for ranked, and the same number shenanigans happen there. It has nothing to do with bolster, and more to do with skill/premades. You’re not going to find support on nerfing or getting rid of bolster, so you might as well quit while you’re ahead. It’s a system intended to keep people with sub-optimal gear from having to wait to queue level 75 wzs, and it’s working as intended.

 

If they got the ball, they dumped it straight on the ground. That needs to be fixed.

I know it’s a legitimate tactic if you have no one to pass to and are about to get swamped. But if people keep using it to refuse to play Hutt ball, then sadly the mechanics may need changing (which is a shame cause I don’t like the idea of removing it). The problem is, I don’t know how you change it to encourage them to play. If you make them have to pass to player, they’ll just pass to the other team. I don’t have an answer or even an idea how to fix it. Which is why I’m just going to wear the 15min deserter debuff in those situations.

 

The solution there is to make passing the huttball a friendly-player targeted ability, like healing abilities. You can only get rid of the ball by pressing the button, and you can only press the button by targeting a friendly player first.

Edited by Enticy
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