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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


bluecheesebandit's Avatar


bluecheesebandit
09.08.2021 , 03:04 PM | #10191
I love that this thread has over 10,000 replies and has been going for years and years. Truly a timeless classic.

I wanted to share my most recent flashpoint experience with you all.

I qued up for Vet Flashpoints on my max geared out merc and got dropped into the Battle of Rishi. Well the first group that is at the end of the catwalk most groups usually walk around, so I started heading around the side to the second group of adds which I see most groups engage. I wait around for the other players to load in and I'm joined by another 75 merc, but then notice a gamer had run straight through into the first group. Oh no! The other merc I rushed back to help, but the player who had aggroed the mobs was panicking. It was a level 63 or so merc that was qued as a healer. They didn't pop any of their defensive abilities and ran straight back towards the shuttle. AWAY from me and the other level 75 player. There was another 60ish level gamer hanging out in the entrance trying to fend off the enemy, but was not able to keep the merc "healer" from going down.

The other 75 merc and I mopped up the group and the level 60ish merc rezzed inside the entrance, but apparently this was too much for the non-max level characters to stand for. How DARE the level 75 players walk AROUND a group of adds instead of blundering into everything and destroying all in sight? Both of the level 60ish players then immediately quit the group!

As we continued, the 75 merc asked me to reque as I had been blessed with lead, but I had a 50 shae and I knew that with heroic moment and unity we'd be much faster than a random group of 4. We were!

My takeaways? Groupfinder has been designed in a way that is pretty punishing to players who aren't experienced in other MMOs and group content before. Gamers who come from just playing through the story in SWTOR are woefully unprepared to hop into vet mode flashpoints that some players have been doing for almost 10 years. It was objectively much easier to complete that flashpoint once those two gamers gave up and left it for the 2 level 75 players to complete. Groups of adds don't even aggo onto you when you destroy the supplies right in the middle of all of them. Because the single player story missions are so easy now, there's no incentive for gamers to get better or learn their class until they get into groupfinders, and then they often give up (like what happened here) or are kicked and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth for no good reason.

Veteran mode flashpoints are great for leveling as a group of experienced players, and the groupfinder is wonderful for leveling and getting tech frags and experience, but its not a good environment for new players to que up for if they are not good at following others.
Satele Shan

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
09.15.2021 , 10:00 PM | #10192
Some false efficiencies in this game will never die. Some people still insist on dumb crap like LoSing the Vorgan fight or ignoring the turrets to rush across the chasm. Some people insist on ditching fights early to pull the next group, forcing the dps to actually stay behind to finish the fight and then slow-run to catch up because the other fight's already started.

Just...these things do not make your group faster. They make it slower. Hurry-up-and-wait crap is not actually efficient.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"

HypSpec's Avatar


HypSpec
09.16.2021 , 02:45 PM | #10193
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Some false efficiencies in this game will never die. Some people still insist on dumb crap like LoSing the Vorgan fight or ignoring the turrets to rush across the chasm. Some people insist on ditching fights early to pull the next group, forcing the dps to actually stay behind to finish the fight and then slow-run to catch up because the other fight's already started.

Just...these things do not make your group faster. They make it slower. Hurry-up-and-wait crap is not actually efficient.
Absolutely true!! I almost exclusively run GF FPs now, and after 1000's of runs, this is the phenomenon that continues to baffle me. Along with the situations you mention, there seem to be countless others where "quicker" takes longer.

If the goal of the players who employ these tactics is really to finish the FP as quickly as possible, I am not sure how they don't realize those tactics often lengthen the time to complete. Makes me think that is not really the goal for many of these players - it's really about freelancing a group activity and punishing those that can't run as fast or going against the grain just to do so....likely peeps with efficacy problems irl.

Another good example of this that drives me nuts...Cademimu and a couple of the jump shortcuts. It is not very likely on a vet pug you are going to get all four to be able to make just one of the jumps, let alone both - and when they don't, we wait for run back. It is almost always easier to wreck the mobs or use pushes to clear them more quickly.

The other is leaving players behind and starting combat early - making others slow run constantly is not only selfish, but slows everything down overall. Is the ADHD (or being on your 5th Red Bull) so bad that players can't stand still for < minute?

Thanks for posting this.

JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
09.17.2021 , 10:15 AM | #10194
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Some false efficiencies in this game will never die. Some people still insist on dumb crap like LoSing the Vorgan fight or ignoring the turrets to rush across the chasm. Some people insist on ditching fights early to pull the next group, forcing the dps to actually stay behind to finish the fight and then slow-run to catch up because the other fight's already started.
One of my favorites is the start of Objective Meridian, especially before the first boss. People, for example, spend some time trying to skip the first groups after the first elevator, but even in MM I can take out the mods solo as a Gunslinger (and Sweeping Gunfire).

But, more on topic, I think some people naturally find it interesting to find ways around mobs just for grins.
Hold water, a sieve may not, but hold another sieve, it will - Yoda..

turbomagnus's Avatar


turbomagnus
09.17.2021 , 12:30 PM | #10195
Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
One of my favorites is the start of Objective Meridian, especially before the first boss. People, for example, spend some time trying to skip the first groups after the first elevator, but even in MM I can take out the mods solo as a Gunslinger (and Sweeping Gunfire).

But, more on topic, I think some people naturally find it interesting to find ways around mobs just for grins.
In some cases it could be that they get used to running the FPs solo on Story or Veteran and when they end up running them in a group (such as to complete a Galactic Seasons 'beat x-y-and-z flashpoints on Veteran mode through Group Finder' objective) they forget that there's other players now involved.

Sundown's Avatar


Sundown
09.26.2021 , 05:51 AM | #10196
Yes, somehow people always seem to be in a hurry. Had a „Boarding party“ couple of days back. On joining I asked if we could do all bosses for achievements, didn‘t even get a reply. Then all stealth, bypassing and hurrying. Was close to just leaving, but then again a group somehow is a democracy, so I didn‘t want to be that person…

had a chiss-mm shortly after, and when zoning in the healer had already dropped group. I stealthed to the first boss while requeueing, but before I arrived the tank left… oh well.

And while in queue and doing some Gree-dailies I was attacked by a group of 3 while fighting this Lurda-beast or whatever it is called. I mean, I will never understand those people. *shrugs*

LordSassafras's Avatar


LordSassafras
10.07.2021 , 11:31 PM | #10197
Just had a group that made me think of this thread... for context, I'm playing on my level 75 shadow and get a pop for Spammer Station. There's a level 68 vanguard, a level 75 commando, and some jedi that jumped ship after the first big pull.

After the roaming gold droid and the two silvers by the doorway, I pull the first big group of droids. All but one of the golds go down because I didn't pop my DCDs in time - the commando did finish off all but one of the droids though. This is when the other person dropped ship, so I pulled out Nadia. Everyone rezzed and I went to finish off the last gold droid, but then noticed that the troopers weren't following. Turns out the vanguard went AFK, according to the commando - this is when I noticed they were from the same guild, which by the looks of it was a roleplay oriented guild or something.

The vanguard came back within a few minutes, and while making our way to the first boss I noticed the commando was spamming Medical Probe a LOT - trying to be helpful, I suppose, but he was draining a lot of his energy as Gunnery. When it came time to repair the drill, it was first thought nobody had scavenging UNTIL the commando went around and pulled the other mob group in the "normal path," and the vanguard thought it would be a good time to show that he could, in fact, repair the drill. It took another minute to clear yet another mob group pulled by the commando to take the shortcut up to the first boss, which went down without issue aside from the vanguard dying once and being battle rezzed.

For that part right after where you have to go around the two Advose in the middle of the hallway, somebody misstepped and pulled that group. No big deal, that happens quite often. However, when I try to mez *that* melee mob to bypass the next group at the end of the tunnel, somebody pulls the Advose dudes - no problem, they're a quick clear anyway.

No slice for the elevator, so we make our way up the ramp, clearing Advose and droids as we go. Then I notice something interesting when pulling the group at the top of the ramp, where there's that door where the three silver droids come out of. I down all three droids relatively quickly with the help of the commando and Nadia, (who was set to heal) and two of the standard Advose enemies, but then I notice that the other silver Advose who jumped onto the vanguard still isn't dead - in fact, he has half of his health left. Nothing that a Shadow Strike or two can't fix, but I found that low DPS odd.

We start fighting the second boss. I noticed a silver Advose run into the boss room while we were fighting and thought we had missed one from the earlier groups of four; no, it turns out somebody pulled the champion turret outside. After finishing off Vorgan I go outside to clean up the turret with Nadia in tow; the troopers follow as well (note that the commando is still spamming med probe in between and during the trash pulls, although not during the boss fight.)

I'm fast enough to switch tacticals after the conversation and put to sleep the two snipers flanking the doorway, and fortunately, nobody pulls that trash group. It's when we get to the two turrets by the bridge that I notice only Nadia is meleeing the turrets with me... I look back while still fighting and see the vanguard spamming Hammer Shot (basic attack) on the turret, standing next to the commando, followed by an Ion Storm that didn't hit anything and yet more Hammer Shot spam, all while standing more than 10m away from the turrets.

"Vanguard is meant to be a melee class," I say in chat after we finish off the turrets (and Nadia nearly dying because I set her to damage.) No response from the vanguard, who has been silent this whole FP. The commando did say some stuff earlier, but nothing after or in response to this either.

The vanguard continues to spam Hammer Shot and the occasional Ion Storm on the final trash groups while the commando actually does hit the right abilities, albeit spamming Med Probe liberally. And then there's Mr. Your Weakness Is In Your Blood... no wipes there, but the vanguard did mix his Hammer Shot recipe up with some Shoulder Cannon. No AoEs besides Ion Storm, just spam. Commando actually does stuff without spamming Med Probe (but ran to the koltos several times when we had a lot of health.)

Battleford Kreshan goes down quickly, having failed the Supreme Warmaster for the 11785th time, and I kept tabs on Nadia throughout the fight to make sure she didn't stand in a grenade pile while healing. Left that strange group after that... was very odd.

BobFredJohn's Avatar


BobFredJohn
11.21.2021 , 08:33 AM | #10198
Coming back after a long time off, played through a few missions with my sniper and jugg tank. After completing the vet and master weekly's on my sniper, and master weekly on my jugg, there seems to be a real inconsistency in groups.

with my sniper sometimes I get groups were the tank grabs aggro and groups up enemies, with dd's following kill order and healer cleansing - then I get groups where tank and other dd are tunnel-visioning the toughest enemy while healer runs around like a headless chicken, but never going anywhere near the tank.

The weirdest thing - nobody ever says anything, in the groups where everything is perfect, everyone is silent (understandably, there's nothing to discuss). But in the groups where I am constantly trying to peel off a healer who never thinks to drag the enemies towards the tunnel-visioning tank, everybody just carries on in silence, as if everything is hunky-dory. I even make comment sometimes like "Why is tank using overload on CD" or "I haven't played in a while...does kill order still apply to dd's in groups?" I still get no answer.

Then my tank runs,

First was Kaon with a group where the dd's followed kill order, so I was able to tank properly and everything ran pretty smoothly. I did mention twice in chat that "the mercenaries can be interrupted" but to no avail. Still, we got through just fine so whatever.

Next is a mission I have never seen, first boss is a droid, second is 2 jedi, 3rd is a jedi on a big round arena with open edges. I mention I am new when I zone in, nobody says anything. The dd's both tunnel-vision the strongest enemy in the pulls, so my rusty tanking is not enough to keep things under control, but healer heals through all the crap (without ever complaining about the tanking or dd's).

We get to first boss, I wait for instruction on mechanics as I did say I was new at the start. After waiting about 20 seconds I just pull and hope for the best. Have to pop my DCD's regularly when some big blue circle obliterates my health every once in a while, but we get through.

At second boss I wait again for instruction, but nobody says anything so I just pull, we burn one down then the other. We complete with me and a dd dead on the floor after receiving no healing for some time, while we res and continue healer says "I suppose we were meant to kill them at the same time" to which a dd says "I guess so." It seems the reason I am getting no advice is because everybody else is new too.

At 3rd boss we beat it, though the last little bit is hectic. At the end the healer says "phew, that was chaos at the end there" - at which point the dd who has been silent all mission writes out instructions for all 3 bosses, then ends with "for future reference."

Then a tython run, one of my favourites. I get the feeling someone is new but didn't say as at the first boss we only get 3 of the reinforcements shields down at a time, then run around frantically trying to take out the 4th.

Get to second boss and that is fun as they have changed the droids since I last did it (droids used to all be the same as the first 2 who were with the boss). The lack of a cleanse of the dot when boss comes out of stealth makes things interesting, but nobody dies so who cares.

At final boss both dd's die to the first rock fall, it nearly catches me out too as last time I did that mission the boss jumped to the middle of the room before doing that. Me and healer 2-man it while our combat res debuff disappears, eventually get a dd back up and finish the fight.


But - the weirdest thing of all - the obsession with shortcut and skips everybody seems to have. To the point where some are slower than pulls. I got so fed up with it on my sniper that at one point, where the other 3 starting trying to jump on some rubble to skip 2 silvers and a standard, I just started shooting, killed the enemies then went and stood in front of the next pull and wrote "if a dd can solo a pull faster than you can skip it, is it really a shortcut?" No answer.
Teach me not what to think, but how to think

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. People are also entitled to ridicule your opinion if it is BS.

RainEbon's Avatar


RainEbon
12.01.2021 , 10:40 AM | #10199
I don't know if this is the right place to write this but I have to share. And in a way it's connected to group finders weird and uninformed people.

Honest to God I have no idea how many times I've gotten this response 'Sorry we're full on DwT' only for them to proceed to ask for more DPS.

If you are starting an OP by writing LFM 1T 1DwT 4DPS 2H and someone responds to you by telling you they are DwT/DPS don't give them that we're full on DwT line If you are still looking for people to dps.

DwT = DPS with taunt

eabevella's Avatar


eabevella
12.02.2021 , 12:57 AM | #10200
Quote: Originally Posted by RainEbon View Post
I don't know if this is the right place to write this but I have to share. And in a way it's connected to group finders weird and uninformed people.

Honest to God I have no idea how many times I've gotten this response 'Sorry we're full on DwT' only for them to proceed to ask for more DPS.

If you are starting an OP by writing LFM 1T 1DwT 4DPS 2H and someone responds to you by telling you they are DwT/DPS don't give them that we're full on DwT line If you are still looking for people to dps.

DwT = DPS with taunt
I've got a guy refused to add me to their SM TC group because I was a DwH, thus not a real DPS lmao
"I don't trust DwH" <- their exact words after I said I can fill the DPS spot they were looking for. I have no idea what the hell that means.