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JackieKo

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This post is focused on pvp.

So basicaly concealment operatives will still be overpower ,with top tier dps,top tier stuns, and top tier defensive tools and survivability,plus self heals and invisibility) will devs ever balance this spec in particular? I mean,lethality and medicine are just fine,but concealment still too much,and nothing seem to change with the patch(they losing either irrelevant or situational tools).What a shame! I dont want em to gutter the spec for pve or pvp. I just feel like a class cant be good at everything like it is now. Either lower their burst,or their defense tools. They have just too much immunity time for a class that can stun lock and kill anyone with a few burst attacks. Only ppl that plays operatives wont agree with this,ofc.

Suggestion : make their rolls now decrease maybe 50% of the dmg taken or something like that,but not full immunity as it is now.

Edited by DougTheNoob
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This post is focused on pvp.

So basicaly concealment operatives will still be overpower ,with top tier dps,top tier stuns, and top tier defensive tools and survivability,plus self heals and invisibility) will devs ever balance this spec in particular? I mean,lethality and medicine are just fine,but concealment still too much,and nothing seem to change with the patch(they losing either irrelevant or situational tools).What a shame! I dont want em to gutter the spec for pve or pvp. I just feel like a class cant be good at everything like it is now. Either lower their burst,or their defense tools. They have just too much immunity time for a class that can stun lock and kill anyone with a few burst attacks. Only ppl that plays operatives wont agree with this,ofc.

Suggestion : make their rolls now decrease maybe 50% of the dmg taken or something like that,but not full immunity as it is now.

100% agree! concealment needs to loose either its immunity on roll or loose 1 charge of the roll-2 is too much considering its super low cd- juggs have a 35 sec cd on their escape with only 1 charge, where is the balance in that bioware? both are melee, both need tools to escape/mitigate, but operative can staelth out on top which jugg can'T and he can self heal as icing on the cake...time to bring concealment down a notch or too-its about time

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100% agree! concealment needs to loose either its immunity on roll or loose 1 charge of the roll-2 is too much considering its super low cd- juggs have a 35 sec cd on their escape with only 1 charge, where is the balance in that bioware? both are melee, both need tools to escape/mitigate, but operative can staelth out on top which jugg can'T and he can self heal as icing on the cake...time to bring concealment down a notch or too-its about time

 

Didn't BWA say that now upon stealthing classes don't exit combat? If that's the case, then OP's can't CC and heal up..

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  • Do the abilities available make this experience feel like you are playing an Operative? Please explain why or why not.
     

 

Thank you!

 

Operative doesn't have cleanse on vanish anymore (https://i.imgur.com/4WIHLK1.png). Without Evasion on vanish utility this class is deleted from pvp. Being revealed after vanish due to any little tiny dot on operative/scoundrel makes this class and auto lose in any team because of easy kill. Every stealth class must have evasion/shround on vanish, otherwise this class will have no place in pvp, especially in ranked. This is MUST have for any stealth class and removing it will for 100% result in full inefficacy of this class in pvp. For pve i don't think it is needed much though but iam not sure since i don't play pve

Edited by omaan
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Operative doesn't have cleanse on vanish anymore (https://i.imgur.com/4WIHLK1.png). Without Evasion on vanish utility this class is deleted from pvp. Being revealed after vanish due to any little tiny dot on operative/scoundrel makes this class and auto lose in any team because of easy kill. Every stealth class must have evasion/shround on vanish, otherwise this class will have no place in pvp, especially in ranked. This is MUST have for any stealth class and removing it will for 100% result in full inefficacy of this class in pvp. For pve i don't think it is needed much though but iam not sure since i don't play pve

Oh no the class that has huge burst, great self heals, great mobility with immunity attached to it is finally getting some form of nerf.

 

Damn people who play OP classes are always so dramatic

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Operative doesn't have cleanse on vanish anymore (https://i.imgur.com/4WIHLK1.png). Without Evasion on vanish utility this class is deleted from pvp. Being revealed after vanish due to any little tiny dot on operative/scoundrel makes this class and auto lose in any team because of easy kill. Every stealth class must have evasion/shround on vanish, otherwise this class will have no place in pvp, especially in ranked. This is MUST have for any stealth class and removing it will for 100% result in full inefficacy of this class in pvp. For pve i don't think it is needed much though but iam not sure since i don't play pve

 

If its true,I think they nerfing operatives the dumbest way possible! They literaly making their stealth out useless. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that concealment spec deserves a nerf,but not like that. They should nerf either their burst or the immunity while rolling,and leave their stealth abilities as it is now.I dont know,maybe increase their roll cd to 20 secs each,or instead of full immunity,they just decrease the dmg for around 50%. I think that would be a fair nerf ,and wouldnt destroy the class playstyle.

Edited by DougTheNoob
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Not having purge on evasion makes Medicine essentially unplayable in PVP. Evasion + Tactical Cloak is the only big defensive move that Medicine has. It doesn't have phase walk, or a super reflect or anything like that. Stealthing away is the only thing that Medicine can do to get out of a lethal situation.
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Not having purge on evasion makes Medicine essentially unplayable in PVP. Evasion + Tactical Cloak is the only big defensive move that Medicine has. It doesn't have phase walk, or a super reflect or anything like that. Stealthing away is the only thing that Medicine can do to get out of a lethal situation.

 

Indeed. They destroying medice, while concealment still almost intact. Way to go ,BW ! Come on devs! Lets nerf the freaking concealment for once! All classes losing either dcd,stuns or mobility,and yet concealment operative loses what? Irrelevant or situational skills and get to keep arguably the most overpower dcd in game while have insane burst dmg and self heals. Seriously....they gonna be even more op than they already are. Either they keep their top tier burst or their top tier survivability. They shouldnt have both.

Edited by DougTheNoob
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Oh no the class that has huge burst, great self heals, great mobility with immunity attached to it is finally getting some form of nerf.

 

Damn people who play OP classes are always so dramatic

 

It seems we are talking about different types of content. In solo ranked pvp players are much more skilled than in unranked or duels, killing operative/scoundrel there with stun chain and net is pretty easy lol. Players in ranked pvp aren't wasting stuns/roots in roll immune and most of operatives/scoundrels DIE pretty often because of electro net or stun chain or worse - both.

 

So pls, when you cry about a certain class or spec consider that it performs different in different types of content

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It seems we are talking about different types of content. In solo ranked pvp players are much more skilled than in unranked or duels, killing operative/scoundrel there with stun chain and net is pretty easy lol. Players in ranked pvp aren't wasting stuns/roots in roll immune and most of operatives/scoundrels DIE pretty often because of electro net or stun chain or worse - both.

 

So pls, when you cry about a certain class or spec consider that it performs different in different types of content

Of course operatives feel everything is fine, guess what, if killing a class requires extreme coordination or merc nets(well timed ones only) while most classes dont need that to be killed, it is broken beyond belief and you are just trying to keep them broken while they are extremely strong in so many areas.

 

If you have so many advantages you better have a glaring disadvantage and screwing with their stealth escape is one way, I would have prefer a mobility and immunity in rolls or burst nerf but that works as well, they still have great mobility, self heals, huge damage and initial stealth alongside the roll immunity

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It seems we are talking about different types of content. In solo ranked pvp players are much more skilled than in unranked or duels, killing operative/scoundrel there with stun chain and net is pretty easy lol. Players in ranked pvp aren't wasting stuns/roots in roll immune and most of operatives/scoundrels DIE pretty often because of electro net or stun chain or worse - both.

 

So pls, when you cry about a certain class or spec consider that it performs different in different types of content

 

And after all ,operatives are meta in solo ranked,anyway. Yes,operatives arent unkillable,but they have too much of everything. No other class have top tier dps,top tier mobility,top tier survivability and top tier cc all at once. So pardon me,but concealment operatives need to be nerfed.

Edited by DougTheNoob
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And after all ,operatives are meta in solo ranked,anyway. Yes,operatives arent unkillable,but they have too much of everything. No other class have top tier dps,top tier mobility,top tier survivability and top tier cc all at once. So pardon me,but concealment operatives need to be nerfed.

 

very well spoken! concealment can't stay the way they are-the stealth vanish nerf is a good start-but the ability that needs to be changed is their roll!-take away one charge to bring it in line with other movement skills.

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Of course operatives feel everything is fine, guess what, if killing a class requires extreme coordination or merc nets(well timed ones only) while most classes dont need that to be killed, it is broken beyond belief and you are just trying to keep them broken while they are extremely strong in so many areas.

 

If you have so many advantages you better have a glaring disadvantage and screwing with their stealth escape is one way, I would have prefer a mobility and immunity in rolls or burst nerf but that works as well, they still have great mobility, self heals, huge damage and initial stealth alongside the roll immunity

 

it seems you guys are not considering the whole truth. Operative IS ALREady getting a nerf in 7.0. even besides evasion cleanse on vanish They took away:

1. Damage reduction on stim boost

2.damage reduction from healing probes utilities

3. forcing players to choose either to take flasgbang or holotraverse which will result in mobility/defense nerf in any case

4.they removed info about amount of heal provided by probes (https://i.imgur.com/KAtWOdm.png) which will probably be a stealth nerf they wanted to hide

5.they forcing to choose between 5% damage reduction and 15% extra movement speed and +3 to stealth level. which will also result in losing mobility or defenses.

 

So yeah, taking away cleanse vanish is too much after all nerfs they do to operative's defenses and mobility will result into full uselesness of this class in ranked pvp.

 

Also, if you think you will win by this you are totally mistaken. The logic behind playing fotm classes will never dissapear from pvp in ANY MMO. Those who playing operatives/mercs/marauders at the moment will just hastily swap to a new fotm class (sorc, merc, sniper or whoever it will be). They won't stay on operative because their credo is to play strong class. And what you will do then? Start crying about sorcs/snipers? while we will have minus one possible class for ranked? great logic lol. Personally, if operative will become useless, i will just swap to better class as i always did in the past since it's not my problem someone screwed up with balance, and i bet many will do the same

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it seems you guys are not considering the whole truth. Operative IS ALREady getting a nerf in 7.0. even besides evasion cleanse on vanish They took away:

1. Damage reduction on stim boost

2.damage reduction from healing probes utilities

3. forcing players to choose either to take flasgbang or holotraverse which will result in mobility/defense nerf in any case

4.they removed info about amount of heal provided by probes (https://i.imgur.com/KAtWOdm.png) which will probably be a stealth nerf they wanted to hide

5.they forcing to choose between 5% damage reduction and 15% extra movement speed and +3 to stealth level. which will also result in losing mobility or defenses.

 

So yeah, taking away cleanse vanish is too much after all nerfs they do to operative's defenses and mobility will result into full uselesness of this class in ranked pvp.

 

Also, if you think you will win by this you are totally mistaken. The logic behind playing fotm classes will never dissapear from pvp in ANY MMO. Those who playing operatives/mercs/marauders at the moment will just hastily swap to a new fotm class (sorc, merc, sniper or whoever it will be). They won't stay on operative because their credo is to play strong class. And what you will do then? Start crying about sorcs/snipers? while we will have minus one possible class for ranked? great logic lol. Personally, if operative will become useless, i will just swap to better class as i always did in the past since it's not my problem someone screwed up with balance, and i bet many will do the same

 

If been reluctant to post anything on here because the perception of operative just being "lol roll 4head" makes it impossible in most cases to have a decent conversation, but the nerfs are actually worse than you're saying, for PvP at least.

 

On top of everything you've listed, without The Debilitator set bonus, our base roll cooldown becomes 8s rather than 6s. I know everyone likes to pretend Concealment has unlimited rolls on no cooldown, they can chase, run, roll defensively and be offensive at the same time, but the fact of the matter is this is a 33% nerf to our primary DCD / gap closer / escape ability.

 

We're losing purge on countermeasures so slows / roots (which were already incredibly effective at shutting down Concealment) and most classes are now getting slows / roots baked into core abilities anyway, so you'll be seeing them frequently.

 

Good luck maintaining uptime on Concealment in PvP. As it stands now in PvP with 6s roll and speed increase / movement purge on countermeasures, most classes can kite operatives around a map unless they have cooldowns saved up to try and catch the kiter which you frequently will not and definitely will not in 7.0.

 

I gave a lot of praise to the overall design to Concealment in 6.0, it seemed like they "got" how the class should play and feel. These changes look an absolute mess to me, it's been hard to test on the PTS because A LOT of stuff is just non-functional / bugged. Set bonuses / Tacticals aren't confirmed, so it's impossible to know just how bad it is, but my guess is very bad.

 

Quickly, on the topic of Holotraverse vs Flashbang (or any ability really) seems a non-starter for me. Holotraverse has the worst fail rate of any ability in the game, frequently putting you in a worse position than when you started. Asking people to spend a point on something that maybe works sometimes seem incredibly unfair to me.

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If been reluctant to post anything on here because the perception of operative just being "lol roll 4head" makes it impossible in most cases to have a decent conversation, but the nerfs are actually worse than you're saying, for PvP at least.

 

On top of everything you've listed, without The Debilitator set bonus, our base roll cooldown becomes 8s rather than 6s. I know everyone likes to pretend Concealment has unlimited rolls on no cooldown, they can chase, run, roll defensively and be offensive at the same time, but the fact of the matter is this is a 33% nerf to our primary DCD / gap closer / escape ability.

 

We're losing purge on countermeasures so slows / roots (which were already incredibly effective at shutting down Concealment) and most classes are now getting slows / roots baked into core abilities anyway, so you'll be seeing them frequently.

 

Good luck maintaining uptime on Concealment in PvP. As it stands now in PvP with 6s roll and speed increase / movement purge on countermeasures, most classes can kite operatives around a map unless they have cooldowns saved up to try and catch the kiter which you frequently will not and definitely will not in 7.0.

 

I gave a lot of praise to the overall design to Concealment in 6.0, it seemed like they "got" how the class should play and feel. These changes look an absolute mess to me, it's been hard to test on the PTS because A LOT of stuff is just non-functional / bugged. Set bonuses / Tacticals aren't confirmed, so it's impossible to know just how bad it is, but my guess is very bad.

 

Quickly, on the topic of Holotraverse vs Flashbang (or any ability really) seems a non-starter for me. Holotraverse has the worst fail rate of any ability in the game, frequently putting you in a worse position than when you started. Asking people to spend a point on something that maybe works sometimes seem incredibly unfair to me.

 

you complain caus your godroll has a 8s cd instead of four und you only got 1 hardstun without that unholy set which shouldn't have been created in the first place? lmao

If you can't kite, chase with the tools you still have maybe its time to get good....no other class has a cd/escape with a gcd long immunity to most damage on a 8s cd....dude, ops should've lost at least one charge on top to make them balanced with most other classes, considering you still got stealth, self heal, shield, evasion with a 150% reflect of everything, brutal burst etc, ppp....this class is still as broken as it gets....

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you complain caus your godroll has a 8s cd instead of four und you only got 1 hardstun without that unholy set which shouldn't have been created in the first place? lmao

If you can't kite, chase with the tools you still have maybe its time to get good....no other class has a cd/escape with a gcd long immunity to most damage on a 8s cd....dude, ops should've lost at least one charge on top to make them balanced with most other classes, considering you still got stealth, self heal, shield, evasion with a 150% reflect of everything, brutal burst etc, ppp....this class is still as broken as it gets....

 

With all due respect, you clearly have no idea how operative works in pvp.

 

Reflect removal is fine, I've suggested since 6.0 that it shouldn't be an option, everything else you've said is objectively stupid.

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If been reluctant to post anything on here because the perception of operative just being "lol roll 4head" makes it impossible in most cases to have a decent conversation, but the nerfs are actually worse than you're saying, for PvP at least.

 

On top of everything you've listed, without The Debilitator set bonus, our base roll cooldown becomes 8s rather than 6s. I know everyone likes to pretend Concealment has unlimited rolls on no cooldown, they can chase, run, roll defensively and be offensive at the same time, but the fact of the matter is this is a 33% nerf to our primary DCD / gap closer / escape ability.

 

We're losing purge on countermeasures so slows / roots (which were already incredibly effective at shutting down Concealment) and most classes are now getting slows / roots baked into core abilities anyway, so you'll be seeing them frequently.

 

Good luck maintaining uptime on Concealment in PvP. As it stands now in PvP with 6s roll and speed increase / movement purge on countermeasures, most classes can kite operatives around a map unless they have cooldowns saved up to try and catch the kiter which you frequently will not and definitely will not in 7.0.

 

I gave a lot of praise to the overall design to Concealment in 6.0, it seemed like they "got" how the class should play and feel. These changes look an absolute mess to me, it's been hard to test on the PTS because A LOT of stuff is just non-functional / bugged. Set bonuses / Tacticals aren't confirmed, so it's impossible to know just how bad it is, but my guess is very bad.

 

Quickly, on the topic of Holotraverse vs Flashbang (or any ability really) seems a non-starter for me. Holotraverse has the worst fail rate of any ability in the game, frequently putting you in a worse position than when you started. Asking people to spend a point on something that maybe works sometimes seem incredibly unfair to me.

 

Didn't even know they taking away countermeasures breaker...this is complete awful now. They just destroying the whole class for ranked just due to cries from unranked players who haven't been playing in ranked and not understanding that this class is not easy when playing in hard modes. Merc will still have its net which will work same as now but other classes will have less defenses in 7.0. + merc will still have all his defenses which he can choose from new tree list while operatives is just deprived from everything without any right of choosing.

 

GG devs, minus one class for ranked. Now we will see all operatives rerolling to sorcs/mercs and a bit later we will see casual players crying about overpowered sorcs and mercs asking to nerf them

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Good luck maintaining uptime on Concealment in PvP.

 

I reluctantly agree with Snave, even though I am pretty happy with most of the changes to operative. Uptime might be a big problem for conc opers in 7.0. However, since almost all classes are getting nerfs to movement such as merc and powertech, I think we can probably wait and see how it is after 7.0 falls.

 

Operative doesn't have cleanse on vanish anymore (https://i.imgur.com/4WIHLK1.png). Without Evasion on vanish utility this class is deleted from pvp.

 

This post from Stain on the other hand, is completely dumb. Stop complaining about everything and learn to save evasion for when you stealth out. You talk about how ranked pvp is filled with the best and most competitive players and then you don't bother to learn how to adapt.

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I reluctantly agree with Snave, even though I am pretty happy with most of the changes to operative. Uptime might be a big problem for conc opers in 7.0. However, since almost all classes are getting nerfs to movement such as merc and powertech, I think we can probably wait and see how it is after 7.0 falls.

 

 

 

This post from Stain on the other hand, is completely dumb. Stop complaining about everything and learn to save evasion for when you stealth out. You talk about how ranked pvp is filled with the best and most competitive players and then you don't bother to learn how to adapt.

 

sin has saber ward/shroud and operative will be forced to keep evesion, the only one decent (still worse than sabers wards though becasue it takes through yellow attacks) cd until vanish? are you kidding me? so what should operative hope for after he gets focused? On useless shield probe which is weak and 2 rolls? Iam not considering shield probe as an dcd even. It absorbs really small amount of damage, and totally useless. Take away evasion from operative which is also not that good as guarded by the force, saber ward and shroud and what operative has?? Probes aren't healing enough to maintain survivability and roll is nerfed due to debilitator absence. As a result - operatives will be an easy target to kill in most of the fights. And against merc operative can /stuck from the begining

Edited by bladech
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sin has saber ward/shroud and operative will be forced to keep evesion, the only one decent (still worse than sabers wards though becasue it takes through yellow attacks) cd until vanish? are you kidding me? so what should operative hope for after he gets focused? On useless shield probe which is weak and 2 rolls? Iam not considering shield probe as an dcd even. It absorbs really small amount of damage, and totally useless. Take away evasion from operative which is also not that good as guarded by the force, saber ward and shroud and what operative has?? Probes aren't healing enough to maintain survivability and roll is nerfed due to debilitator absence. As a result - operatives will be an easy target to kill in most of the fights. And against merc operative can /stuck from the begining

 

sabre ward only gives you a 50% dodge chance against melee and ranged weapon attacks-aka it doesn't do anything against yellow tech damage (ops do 95% tech btw), while evasion gives you a defato immunity against that type of damage for 5 seconds every minute on top of getting the same immunity for 1.5 secs every 8 secs....get your facts straight und l2p....

and even if ops get nerfed hard-its about time! ops were the top spec for ages, its time to let other specs get their fair share of spotlight

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