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PLEASE add matchmaking


ArRashid

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I mean seriously, please make a system ranking players (death to kill ratio or something), so that new people can get into starfighter without being absolutely STOMPED by veteran players and their maxed out starfighters.

 

 

Seriously, it feels like going against Cold War supersonic planes on a biplane in World of Warplanes - you are still a few thousand meters out of range, while the other guy takes you out in 1-2 clicks (while you can tail a guy for 15 sec shooting at them the entire time and you BARELY take down shields till someone else bursts you down in 2 seconds. And my personal favorite - missiles. OFC fully upgraded ones 1shot nearly anyone, basic ones eat only like 40% of shields at best).

 

Just PLEASE add matchmaking to this so veterans can play against veterans and noobs against noobs. I bet the veteran players are really happy having a full team of noobs to blast, but from the other side, it's no fun at all.

 

 

If there actually IS amatchmaking system already in place.... let's just say it's a VERY bad one and should be changed ASAP, because matching people who have 0 deaths and 20+ kills in every game vs noobs is wrong on many levels.

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Trust me that you can do really good in an non-upgraded ship. And remember that we all had to struggle at first. MM in GSF even if tempting, is sadly not possiblle since the population of GSF is already quite small. Do you want to wait in Q for hours?

There is quite a few guides that helped me get over the first hurdles of the steep learning curve of GSF that helped me improving from getting desroyed by doing <10k dmg per game and dying 10 times to playing my first GSF match on a brand new toon and doing 40k dmg on a completely stock ship.

Said guides: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWTo5N9w5J_9OeqCvKfWMbQ

https://shadowlandsreconnaissancewing.enjin.com/forum/m/34025565/viewforum/8801272

Hope this helps....we were all new once

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There is matchmaking. It's not great at balancing teams. Slightly better than it used to be, but not enough so to make a new pilot feel happy about it. Lopsided games are a permanent part of GSF.

 

 

With respect to the missiles, it sounds like you're confusing proton torpedoes with everything that's not proton torpedoes. P-torps ignore shields and do enough damage to pretty much kill a scout, maim a strike or gunship, or take out half of a bomber's hull. Most of the other commonly used missiles have to get the shields down first before they can deliver the bulk of their damage to the hull no matter how upgraded the missile is. If you want to p-torp effectively get the first upgrade which is lock time reduction for a measly 500 requistion, get an Offensive crew member with increased firing arc passive ability, and if on a strike a magazine with lock time reduction. Then enjoy launching pretty blue glowing death-balls all over the map.

 

Other major things to know for new player "what killed me" moments: be aware of cover. Line of sight is the most important survival mechanic in GSF. If there's terrain between you and an opponent, you're safe from them. Also, manage energy so that you never get really low on engine power. If you can't move you can't LOS, and if you can't LOS you'll probably be shot down in a few seconds. This is true no matter what your ship's level of upgrades is.

 

Finally, work on situational awareness. Get out of the thick of things and look at the map and tab through targets to get a sense of what's going on. Are you in enemy territory? Have you tabbed through targets and noticed that 5 people are currently targeting you because you are in the middle of a swarm of hostiles? Are there gunships within 17000 m of you? (railgun range is only 15 km, but it's easy for a gunship to scoot in a km or two to get a shot). They can't generally one-shot you without a damage overcharge power-up, but they can two or three shot most ships, and it's very easy for a new player to get so focused on something that they never notice the first shot. You have to take the occasional moment to look around at the battle as a whole.

 

As mentioned by the other poster, watch some of those videos. Drako's channel also has some good GSF pointers.

 

How much is skill a super-power in GSF? Check out some of Drako's birthday match videos. Can a pilot stay alive with 8 to 12 ace GSF pilots abandoning game objectives to chase down one target for the whole match? You'd be surprised at how well defensive flying can keep you alive once you master the skills involved.

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MM in GSF even if tempting, is sadly not possiblle since the population of GSF is already quite small. Do you want to wait in Q for hours?

 

 

You know, people don't play it BECAUSE it's like throwing a bunch of guys in green leveling gear that just hit max level into a PvP match against a team of dudes in BiS gear. It's about the same difference. If there was an effective matchmaking in place, it would be massively more popular. It's kind of a shame because it's otherwise well designed game - but the odds that you'll be placed against similarly skilled (and similarly upgraded) fighters.... nears zero. Most new people try like 3 matches, gets absolutely DEMOLISHED in each match, and lose any interest they might have had.

 

Whatever. I resigned myself to just grinding req daily to get those upgrades and THEN decide if it's worth playing or not.

So far it's really NOT fun when you can hit the enemy 14 times with your guns and BARELY take out shield, yet your fighter breaks into fireworks when it's so much as licked by enemy fire. SO MANY TIMES I've had head to head confrontations where I exploded without taking even 40% of enemy's effective HP down.

 

And yes even with damn PROTONS, if it's not upgraded it won't kill ANYTHING. Scouts can shake off proton lock by literally wiggling slightly without even trying, and anything with more armor than scout can TANK that hit unless you have the proton upgraded nearly all the way so it crits a lot and flies faster. (because even a drunken bantha can shake off a proton that takes 4 effin seconds to lock and another 4 to hit).

Edited by ArRashid
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A bunch of mistaken stuff about gear and how components work.

 

Do yourself a favor and check the links given to you in this thread. The game does have matchmaking, but the population of SWTOR in general is fairly low, and the subset that also wants to play a space arcade shooter is tiny compared to that.

 

Upgrades help, but they aren't why you're losing. Most people around here (or in the GSF Discord, link in my signature) would be willing to help if you have specific questions about mechanics. You might even be able to find some people willing to do a custom match with you to show you how some things work. There are also some builds floating around that you could try out.

 

The guide in my signature is okay if you ignore the ship specific tips and anything I said about strikes being bad. (They're good now, and scouts are the class that's kind of underpowered now.) I might see about updating it when I have time, but the general advice still holds.

 

Edit: Also check out

on GSF. She started with the same experience you're describing, and addresses it from that point of view. Particularly watch the following videos:

 

and

 

These seem most relevant to your complaints. But yeah, most people in the community are all too happy to help you learn if that's what you want to do. If you're just here to complain though you're probably just going to get dismissive reactions.

Edited by DakhathKilrathi
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but the odds that you'll be placed against similarly skilled (and similarly upgraded) fighters.... nears zero. Most new people try like 3 matches, gets absolutely DEMOLISHED in each match, and lose any interest they might have had.

 

As others have said, as nice as it would be, its not really possible given how small the GSF player base is nowadays, and it's also not as easy as placing people with similarly geared up ships together.

 

As an example; I don't consider myself a great pilot, I would say my skill level is average; I rarely use missile's, don't really pay attention to the stats / abilities / crew. Simply put I just want to fly about and pew-pew other ships with my lasers.

 

I started out by getting smashed every time I went into a match, over time, I got killed less and got more kills, figured out some of the tactics people use, etc. If I had the patience to watch videos and the like that people put up around here I am sure that whole process would have been easier, but its just not how I do things.

 

With the above in mind, now when I go to play GSF on a new character, I don't get smashed even if in a ship which is not upgraded, and after that first match, you get like 25k points to invest in the ship, that puts me pretty much back to normal play. Now ye there are always those times where the teams are just really out of whack and one team gets demolished no matter what you try or how your ship is geared, but in my experience those are not the norm.

 

Fact is that experience just plays a huge part in this game mode, and there are some really good pilots out there. Now personally I would love to see a version where you cant stop your ship and with lock on missiles removed, as there are also a lot of people who just tuck themselves into a corner and play as a missile turret, who I would dearly love to see actually have to fly their ship, see if they manage as well then, but honestly its unlikely we will ever see much added to GSF given the low player base it has :(

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The unfortunate reality is the lack of interest and participation - the first week I came back after a 3 year or so hiatus I could get reliable pops over and over on starforge...

 

Until double experience ended and it slowed down noticeably. Sure, some folks are currently doing the squadrons thing but the silence in the GSF channel really speaks volumes.

 

While upgrades play a huge role, the massive grind built into GSF basically set it up for failure. Not only do the more experienced pilots have the advantage of experience, but they also typically have "stronger" ships that are upgraded. It's hard to keep players interested in a pvp mechanic when it stacks so much against them.

 

But I also know that my biggest advantage is the countless hours I've spent in this silly little mini-game. I know I can out perform most pilots in a bare ship than most can fully upgraded. I can also acknowledge their are limits to how influential a single pilot can be. But it's not particularly helpful, even if its a statement meant to emphasize that skill matters more than upgrades.

 

My school of learning was as simple as trying to kill the people that killed me the most. That's it.

 

To get there I had to play a lot of matches and take a lot of beatings. If I didn't have fond memories of games like X-Wing or Tie Fighter, I would have never stuck around long enough to improve.

 

Now, the competition is not as fierce and there are even fewer people than before.

 

On the bright side grouping is a lot less frequent so there's a better chance of a more evenly matched game. However, the team's average level of competency still matters.

 

In the end you just gotta decide if its "fun enough" to offset all the irritation.

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Trust me that you can do really good in an non-upgraded ship.

Assuming you are an experienced pilot. Not everyone is.

And remember that we all had to struggle at first.

True, but premades in the first year of GSF weren't much of a thing.

MM in GSF even if tempting, is sadly not possiblle since the population of GSF is already quite small. Do you want to wait in Q for hours?

First - I am maybe not an 'ace' but I suppose in upper 25%. Quite often I am getting teamed with some of premades against a 4-5 4 shippers that result in a curbstomp battle, so the matchmaker COULD do better without reducing the pop frequency.

Also, I am pretty sure that discouraging newbs , stomped 10 times in a row, from queuing again will reduce - in long term - pop frequency way more than proper matchmaking.

Some people just are using influx of new players from Steam to farm their stats... and in effect making sure they won't stay qued.

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Quite often I am getting teamed with some of premades against a 4-5 4 shippers that result in a curbstomp battle, so the matchmaker COULD do better without reducing the pop frequency.

Also, I am pretty sure that discouraging newbs , stomped 10 times in a row, from queuing again will reduce - in long term - pop frequency way more than proper matchmaking.

Some people just are using influx of new players from Steam to farm their stats... and in effect making sure they won't stay qued.

I got curbstomped in my first 10-20 matches, then I went and did research and watched vids, and no longer got curbstomped. It helps that I am an FPS player which helped me a lot with my aim...I never took getting curbstomped as a discouragment but as a challenge...15k+ dmg or 10medals is what I consider a decent player....90% of players I encounter on either teams cant even manage that...If you do your minimum research and put a minimum effort in the game and have the minimum motor skills, you should be able to get through those thresholds, unless you have 10 Sprigs flying on the other team. This is how a competitive game goes: You start as a noob getting rekt=> You do your research => You apply your research in your gameplay=> You improve your skills=>You rek noobs, if you don't get to the last part, you rinse and repeat the first 3.

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I got curbstomped in my first 10-20 matches, then I went and did research and watched vids, and no longer got curbstomped. It helps that I am an FPS player which helped me a lot with my aim...I never took getting curbstomped as a discouragment but as a challenge...

YOU did it. I had the same problem too, but I did it. But I really like this PvP activity, if not for it, I would leave SWTOR permanently long ago.

The problem is - how much people just tried the gsf got curbstomped few times (or were in 500:1000 DOM match, where they couldn't absolutely do anything, because people did 2:1 split) then said 'meh, *** it'?... The fact that *you* had the dedication doesn't mean *others* will. Maybe those others *would* stay and get better if not for the fact that they were discouraged at the start?...

Also, don't forget that GSF is a team game. You won't do anything about good premade alone.

 

 

15k+ dmg or 10medals is what I consider a decent player....

With all due respect, you didn't even differentiate between TDM and DOM here. That says something ;)

Also, assuming you'd say '15k+ dam in TDM or 10 medals in DOM - good luck getting 10 medals in DOM against a good premade with newbs at your team. Unless they decide to extend your suffering and leave you at one sat alone. 15k+ with (1 good pilot and newbs against premade) in TDM is doable... with an T1 GS and AoE ion rail. Which won't change the result much...

 

90% of players I encounter on either teams cant even manage that...

Where did you get that '90%'?... because I can say that is an absolute fake number, unless GSF community on your server is totally fresh.

 

If you do your minimum research and put a minimum effort in the game and have the minimum motor skills, you should be able to get through those thresholds, unless you have 10 Sprigs flying on the other team.

 

You can get 15k damage and still do practically nothing. Especially in DOM.

 

This is how a competitive game goes: You start as a noob getting rekt=> You do your research => You apply your research in your gameplay=> You improve your skills=>You rek noobs, if you don't get to the last part, you rinse and repeat the first 3.

 

Now, will people have the MOTIVATION to do it? Because that's what I am saying about. Initial curbstomp will flush most people from the queuing, so you will get the matchmaker with easier work but way lower playerbase to choose from. Resulting in longer waiting times.

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Ten medals in a badly losing DOM match? How about these ones:

 

Assassin 1 solo kill (probably a proton torp, but railguns work too).

Combatant 10k damage dealt.

Mechanic 2k repaired, (if getting butt kicked hydrospanner self heals will take care of this).

Assault Destroyed 2 defense turrets.

Siege Destroyed 6 defense turrets

Demolisher Destroyed 8 defense turrets (actually a lot easier in losing games because there are more enemy turrets to pop).

Quick Draw 2 kills

Support 4 assists

 

That' the 8 easy ones, but with some combination of Defense 1 min, Offense capture 1 objective, Fighter 8 kill assists, Ace 5 kills, and Destroyer 20k damage it should be doable to cobble together the last two with a bit of effort. Maybe even 30k damage if you cheese Ion railgun AOE at bomber junk around a sat.

 

 

Sounds like a fairly modest mid-pack scoreboard line to me.

 

Sure, you could get less, but 10 is fairly unremarkable a level of decent competence. Getting well into the teens might be a stretch, but 10 is maybe more within reach than some people realize.

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Ten medals in a badly losing DOM match? How about these ones:

 

Assassin 1 solo kill (probably a proton torp, but railguns work too).

Doable. Not guaranteed though - if most of the enemy team is close to sat with a repair drone, you will have to get lucky with railguns; protorps near sat aren't nice to lock. Also, a good team will react to enemy GS near sat.

Combatant 10k damage dealt.

Sure. Ion rail can do it easily, let's add even 20k one dfor teh 'sure' medal.

 

Mechanic 2k repaired, (if getting butt kicked hydrospanner self heals will take care of this).

If you're aiming for this medal, sure. There are way better wingman options though;

 

Assault Destroyed 2 defense turrets.

Siege Destroyed 6 defense turrets

Demolisher Destroyed 8 defense turrets (actually a lot easier in losing games because there are more enemy turrets to pop).

Assuming you aren't fighting but farming medals.

Quick Draw 2 kills

Assuming the rest of the team is halfway competent, if you're focused on, it can be hard. Especially in Dom matches with one spawn point.

Support 4 assists

 

That means the rest of the team must have 4 kills. Not always the case

 

That' the 8 easy ones, but with some combination of Defense 1 min, Offense capture 1 objective, Fighter 8 kill assists, Ace 5 kills, and Destroyer 20k damage it should be doable to cobble together the last two with a bit of effort. Maybe even 30k damage if you cheese Ion railgun AOE at bomber junk around a sat.

 

That assumes you are farming most medals instead of fighting - and the team is good enough to keep enemies attention out of you. It is not always the case, due to the lack of matchmaker and frequent placing 2 premades against 4-6 newbs.

Sounds like a fairly modest mid-pack scoreboard line to me.

 

Sure, you could get less, but 10 is fairly unremarkable a level of decent competence. Getting well into the teens might be a stretch, but 10 is maybe more within reach than some people realize.

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YOU did it. I had the same problem too, but I did it. But I really like this PvP activity, if not for it, I would leave SWTOR permanently long ago.

The problem is - how much people just tried the gsf got curbstomped few times (or were in 500:1000 DOM match, where they couldn't absolutely do anything, because people did 2:1 split) then said 'meh, *** it'?... The fact that *you* had the dedication doesn't mean *others* will. Maybe those others *would* stay and get better if not for the fact that they were discouraged at the start?...

Also, don't forget that GSF is a team game. You won't do anything about good premade alone.

I did and I expect others to do or at least try to too. You should not enter a competitive game with the expectation to perform well in the start. I can confirm the pre-made bit as I just recently got a few people to bear with my coaching in GSF after which we solo queued (since the q was not popping when we were grouped)...we got a premade in the 2 games that we played( 1 scout that basically acted like an alarm for one satellite, 2 interdiction bombers and a sf ). We got destroyed TWICE(at least the unlucky ones that didnt get on their team). The first game (I was playing an unupgraded clarion to level myself with newer pilots) we got 3-0ed, we regained control of one sat for like 15 secs at the end and I barely did 15k dmg. The second game (I played Pike) I got 35k but we still lost miserably by having 2-1 sats almost the whole game, but we put up a way better fight than the first. This did not make me quit GSF, even though it made me mad that that kind of tm gets a q while we wait for 20 minutes and get none when we are in a group (albeit it could have been the difference in our hidden gsf ratings that made our mm longer).

 

With all due respect, you didn't even differentiate between TDM and DOM here. That says something ;)

Also, assuming you'd say '15k+ dam in TDM or 10 medals in DOM - good luck getting 10 medals in DOM against a good premade with newbs at your team. Unless they decide to extend your suffering and leave you at one sat alone. 15k+ with (1 good pilot and newbs against premade) in TDM is doable... with an T1 GS and AoE ion rail. Which won't change the result much...

I say 10k dmg OR 10 medals because I dont ever expect people to play for the objective so what I consider as decent players are people who try and suceed at contributing ....somewhat. Yes 10k dmg isn't much and 10 medals is wihtout the dmg doesnt ncesserly mean much either, but ,in my eyes, it shows that you are trying to do something.

 

Where did you get that '90%'?... because I can say that is an absolute fake number, unless GSF community on your server is totally fresh.

I play on SF, and 90% is a bit of a exageration my part, but it is still a reality in some of my matches. The more likely statistics are more in the lines of 60-70% which does not really change my point.

 

You can get 15k damage and still do practically nothing. Especially in DOM.

I completely agree.

 

Now, will people have the MOTIVATION to do it? Because that's what I am saying about. Initial curbstomp will flush most people from the queuing, so you will get the matchmaker with easier work but way lower playerbase to choose from. Resulting in longer waiting times.

This is assuming that the new imaginary mm will have a constant relatively big inflow of new players, and the best time for that change passed with the steam launch. SWTOR is an old game, yes we still get new players, but only a small fraction of them would be interested in a clunky space battle sim...

 

This is what makes a ranked GSF mm, a beautiful in theory, but ugly in practice idea. I will choose to play against a premade solo every game of GSF I play, instead of getting a ranked GSF mm system which will just exponentially increase queue times.

Edited by Blood_Silver
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But I really like this PvP activity, if not for it, I would leave SWTOR permanently long ago.

 

I thought you had, since you quit saying bad and wrong things on the forums.

 

OP, do feel free to ignore this guy. He has never actually understood how to play the game in any capacity and so complains about how people are better than he is instead.

Edited by DakhathKilrathi
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First of all Welcome to GSF. Good to see new players giving it a go.

 

Everything has pretty much been covered but I would like to add my two pennies.

 

Firstly its less about having maxed ships than you think, and more about skill and knowledge of the game. I know you won't believe this, I didn't when I started, but its true. A Veteran Ace in a Stock ship will still seem like a formidable opponent to you. I have screen shots and videos to prove it, as do many others here.

 

GSF is a very high skill ceiling game with a very poor tutorial. But be 100% assured that everyone here suffered greatly trying to get to grips with the game when they started out. It is not the sort of game where you can come in smash buttons and do well. I often see newbies saying that they unload their entire payload or weapon charge at someone and did no damage - 99% of the time those newbies are not actually making contact. I have never seen someone fresh and new to it get more than circa 15% accuracy, and it doesn't matter what weapons you select or how upgraded they are, that kind of accuracy is the single biggest reason newbies don't do damage. Not the lack of upgraded ships. The second reason you don't damage and die a lot of lack of understanding of the game. Both can only be addressed with time.

 

It just takes a little patience, determination and tenacity and you will start getting the hang of it. But be assured that it is a complex game with lots of build options and it takes a long time to fully understand it, even once you start to see yourself improving and actually having an effect on matches, your knowledge of the game will still be very small. It's good that you are giving it until you have a maxed ship to judge it, but that's still too soon to make a judgement. A maxed ship is not going to turn you into an Ace or even an average pilot. Again the only thing that will do that is time and practice, understanding of the game and its many complexities.

 

I strongly recommend you watch all the tutorial videos you have been given. I remember feeling the way you do now, but I also remember telling myself if others can do it so can I. GSF is the type of game that determines your mindset. You either like a challenge and are determined to get it (very rewarding feeling when you do) or you give up because its too hard.

 

To close I will make the same offer that has been made to me along my journey from several different people at different stages of my skill..... if you would like some direct coaching, I am happy to help you.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Everyone giving newbie advice in this thread seem to be missing a few bigger points.

 

>If GSF was more newbie-friendly, it'd probably have a much larger playerbase by now.

 

>If matchmaking could balance teams better, we'd have less lopsided matches, which would be more enjoyable for everyone, newbies and veterans alike.

 

I don't think it's a stretch to assume that MOST casual players who try out GSF for the first time and doesn't like it due to the huge imbalances, DOESN'T instantly go and read guides etc (ie git gud). I'd also venture a guess that many of those, had they liked it the first time, would in time read guides to improve. Most people ask themselves "do I enjoy this?" before "do I want to get better at this?", and this only if the answer to the former was "yes".

 

IMO, If nothing changes, the GSF playerbase is unlikely to grow at all, and it'll probably just remain in its current state. Which, at only a single concurrent match at any time and queues stopping to pop really early (at least on my server), is kind of pitiful.

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