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PvP changes????


BallisticKaine

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So since Chris game back to the game. He thought it would be good for the casual PvP player to be punished for leaving warzones. Even though he knows that the matchmaking in SWTOR PvP is broken. So many one sided teams made. So many Arenas in low and mid level that will have four higher levels on one side and on the other side there is maybe a higher level and the other three players are maybe lowest level for the bracket. Then to top it off you decide to look at some of those players. Most the players under level 20 more than likely don't have full gear. Either no left side or empty armor/weapon shells. So if they insist on keeping the lockout on unranked PvP let alone in lowbies. They need to enforce a gear rating in that also like they do for ranked. They made the change to Ranked pvp to have 306 Item Rating and also a Valor rating. The item rating can be added to unranked also. We all know it isn't that hard to get gear. The ball is in your court CHRIS SCHMIT AKA Nighguy Edited by BallisticKaine
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Gear really doesn't matter in low/mid pvp.

There is more of an ability gap that comes with the different levels.

 

It kind of does. But only to actually have something equiped in the slot so that bolster works. If there is nothing equiped, then bolster doesn’t work properly to make up for it. We don’t need a gear rating as such, but a notification that things aren’t equiped would help educate players learning. Ie, players who have empty shells on and think that’s gearing or don’t have crystals of any kind in weapons. Because Bolster looks at all of that to boost stats.

 

The very first pvp mission in lowbies is introduction to pvp to actually give you a full left side. What’s extremely sad is you now have to win a match before you complete that mission to get the left side. Which just proves how disconnected Bioware devs are to pvp outside of the ranked community.

 

New players or characters shouldn’t have to win that first match to complete this mission to get the left side. They are already at a massive disadvantage if they are lvl 10 and they also don’t have left side equipment yet. How on earth does Bioware think this is a fair system, especially when they often put these people altogether on the one team vs lvl 30+ players who are fully equipped and have 30+ valor to prove it’s not their first match.

 

This introduction mission issue has been brought to their attention since the changes last year. It’s been nearly 6 months and not even one dev post to say they know about this issue or that care one little bit. This is just one of a list of issues that show Bioware are disconnected with the regs player base and have no idea how to build a health pvp community from the ground up.

 

If it is something to do with ranked it’s discussed on discord and Chris makes notes and gets more information and changes are made fairly fast. But Bioware can’t even be bothered with lip service when it comes to this issue. If you aren’t on discord or a ranked player, they don’t listen, you might as well give up on reg pvp ever being improved because Bioware JUST DONT CARE!! It’s as simple as that. It’s why reg pvp is such **** fight and why no one wants to play it anymore. Even the ranked guys are grumbling how terrible it is and vow never to play it.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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New players or characters shouldn’t have to win that first match to complete this mission to get the left side.

that part is pretty funny. I remember being a 10 and jumping into lowbies. it's like...you just picked up an advanced class and have 1 ability to spam against players with 5x those abils unlocked. ah. fun times.

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that part is pretty funny. I remember being a 10 and jumping into lowbies. it's like...you just picked up an advanced class and have 1 ability to spam against players with 5x those abils unlocked. ah. fun times.

 

And sadly, BioWare is the expecting these players to win. The disconnect is so huge in this case that it’s negligence.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Gear really doesn't matter in low/mid pvp.

There is more of an ability gap that comes with the different levels.

 

Here is some stats with Bolster and why gear is needed in low level and midbie PvP

Level 42 with Level 40 Gear

Mastery 1512

Endurance 1245

Power 368

Critical 116

Alacrity 58

Accuracy 116

 

With Bolster Same Gear

Mastery 13616

Endurance 17141

Power 9486

Critical 1566

Alacrity 1508

Accuracy 836

 

Level 42 No Left side

Mastery 1271 (Lost 241)

Endurance 925 (Lost 320)

Power 259 (Lost 109)

Critical 116 (Stayed the Same)

Alacrity 29 (Lost 29)

Accuracy 58 (Lost 58)

 

Level 42 No Left Side Bolstered

Mastery 12381 (Lost 1235)

Endurance 15269 (Lost 1872)

Power 8216 (Lost 1270)

Critical 1479 (Lost 87)

Alacrity 1392 (Lost 116)

Accuracy 733 (Lost 103)

 

Now tell me how gear doesn't matter for PvP?

Edited by BallisticKaine
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eh. don't get me wrong. I think the zero sum wins requirement is a joke. and maybe things are different on SS or DM, but on SF, players are seriously overblowing the difficulty of completing the quests.

 

I've been running around (for some absurd reason) on a 270s geared assault commando, which is almost like being that fresh 10 in lowbies! I'm solo queued the whole time, so I'm not carrying anyone (except a few arenas during low pop times), and the only time I struggled to get wins was on tuesday (last night). that's always been the case for solo queuing regs: reset day gets hit hardest by geared/skilled groups. unfortunately, that also means more under-geared players are also in the queue. if I were the only 270s guy rocking a wonky spec, my teams would still have won more (my win ratio was something like 1:3...maybe 1:4 until ~midnight it went to 2:1). on the plus side, I was still on a mando, so no one was wiping the floor with me even if I wasn't going to light up the score bored. I just couldn't burst anything down. Basically just spamming roto until I saw someone in the execute range.

 

not particularly relevant to the level 10 thing, but more to the point of the thread: I'd suggest not solo queuing on reset day or doing so later into the night. at least on SF, the games aren't so lopsided and fewer games of ignored objectives.

 

also, if you find yourself in a TDM game, don't try to win. just take it for what it is and work on your roto (assuming you don't want to just leave and eat the deserter debuff). it's less frustration and good practice. I had a top shelf sage and I just ran into the fray, rolled cd's worked on dpsing while doing so. he must've rescue pulled me 10 times in one AHG. but it was cool. felt intense like a rated arena.

 

regarding deserter debuff, I'm certain when the game no longer feels new to me (maybe a month?) I'll tire of this and just leave and not come back for the night if I don't want to stick out a lopsided game or if I backfill (which seems to happen a lot on Yavin for some reason). and I'll always leave if I get an OPG map (but I'm still likely to come back to playing after 15 mins cuz the game still novel to me again).

 

I still don't understand the vertical gear progression in 6.x. it feels retarded to me. I receive all this utterly useless vendor trash. then I get a piece that is an upgrade, but it's not moddable. and then the next 5 upgrades I get are mods that I can't use b/c I'm no longer wearing moddable gear. I've received the same on-use relic half a dozen times when literally any auto proc relic would be preferable. this whole thing feels incredibly poorly designed. opening crates after every WZ is a pita too, just to pull out vendor trash.

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Here is some stats with Bolster and why gear is needed in low level and midbie PvP

Level 42 with Level 40 Gear

Mastery 1512

Endurance 1245

Power 368

Critical 116

Alacrity 58

Accuracy 116

 

With Bolster Same Gear

Mastery 13616

Endurance 17141

Power 9486

Critical 1566

Alacrity 1508

Accuracy 836

 

Level 42 No Left side

Mastery 1271 (Lost 241)

Endurance 925 (Lost 320)

Power 259 (Lost 109)

Critical 116 (Stayed the Same)

Alacrity 29 (Lost 29)

Accuracy 58 (Lost 58)

 

Level 42 No Left Side Bolstered

Mastery 12381 (Lost 1235)

Endurance 15269 (Lost 1872)

Power 8216 (Lost 1270)

Critical 1479 (Lost 87)

Alacrity 1392 (Lost 116)

Accuracy 733 (Lost 103)

 

Now tell me how gear doesn't matter for PvP?

I didn't say gear doesn't matter in pvp, i said it doesn't really matter in low/mid pvp , in other words, it's not the biggest determining factor of performance at such low levels, i guess i should have been more articulate with my wording. The biggest determining factor would be the ability gap at low levels.

 

A level 13 sorc coming into a WZ and getting jumped by a level 25 jugg is an obvious stomp on the sorc, regardless of whether or not they have decked themselves out in purple gear or are missing their whole left side, the gear isn't going to make a difference in that situation.

A level 40 sniper can do pretty well in the low bracket, but once they move into the mid bracket, it's a different game, mainly because of defensive abilities they have not yet accquired, like Covered escape, thats a pretty signifacant utility to have when you're going against level 65 melee who have considerably more utility than you.

 

I've leveled Sorcs, mandos, Snipers, Juggs, PT's through lowbie and mid PVP, just doing warzones until level 75 wearing legacy victorious pioneer gear for xp boost with level 10 armor/mod & enhancements the whole time, and it's always the same story, the ability gap makes the biggest difference in survivablity & damage, not my gear.

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I didn't say gear doesn't matter in pvp, i said it doesn't really matter in low/mid pvp , in other words, it's not the biggest determining factor of performance at such low levels, i guess i should have been more articulate with my wording. The biggest determining factor would be the ability gap at low levels.

 

A level 13 sorc coming into a WZ and getting jumped by a level 25 jugg is an obvious stomp on the sorc, regardless of whether or not they have decked themselves out in purple gear or are missing their whole left side, the gear isn't going to make a difference in that situation.

A level 40 sniper can do pretty well in the low bracket, but once they move into the mid bracket, it's a different game, mainly because of defensive abilities they have not yet accquired, like Covered escape, thats a pretty signifacant utility to have when you're going against level 65 melee who have considerably more utility than you.

 

I've leveled Sorcs, mandos, Snipers, Juggs, PT's through lowbie and mid PVP, just doing warzones until level 75 wearing legacy victorious pioneer gear for xp boost with level 10 armor/mod & enhancements the whole time, and it's always the same story, the ability gap makes the biggest difference in survivablity & damage, not my gear.

 

And that is all wrong about level. I was in a 4v4 last night. Other team was all level 30+. Then my team was me at level 40, a level 16 operative, and two others in there high twenties. Who do you think was winner in that match and top DPS. Most would expect the other team, but wrong. My team won and the operative was top total damage for the match. I have seen level 40's run from level 10's cause the level 10 knew how to play class and knew the abilities of their class.

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And that is all wrong about level. I was in a 4v4 last night. Other team was all level 30+. Then my team was me at level 40, a level 16 operative, and two others in there high twenties. Who do you think was winner in that match and top DPS. Most would expect the other team, but wrong. My team won and the operative was top total damage for the match. I have seen level 40's run from level 10's cause the level 10 knew how to play class and knew the abilities of their class.

Ok, you can go about life being upset about losing in low level warzones and blaming other peoples gear for your losses, it's a non issue for me because i haven't had problems with it. I have real life issues to be concerned about, not stressing over lowbies.

Have a nice day :)

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Ok, you can go about life being upset about losing in low level warzones and blaming other peoples gear for your losses, it's a non issue for me because i haven't had problems with it. I have real life issues to be concerned about, not stressing over lowbies.

Have a nice day :)

 

LOL trying to take the easy road. I just find it funny that so much has been catered to the Ranked Community (which by your responses I would gather you are part of) (or you are a number farming player that doesn't care about objectives or the out come of your team) and the casual players get **** on. Ranked cried that players going in under 306 was ruining the experience of the matches. (We all know that it was oh my poor rating) So why not force players to be fully geared for unranked? I also noticed you skirted my comment about watching a level 10 make a level 40 run. Hey let me know what server you play on then and I will come pvp with you in no gear equipped empty shelled armors and weapons. See how your experience is then? A win is a win in most cases. Win equals more XP, daily completed, and advancement on weekly.

Edited by BallisticKaine
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I still don't understand the vertical gear progression in 6.x. it feels retarded to me. I receive all this utterly useless vendor trash. then I get a piece that is an upgrade, but it's not moddable. and then the next 5 upgrades I get are mods that I can't use b/c I'm no longer wearing moddable gear. I've received the same on-use relic half a dozen times when literally any auto proc relic would be preferable. this whole thing feels incredibly poorly designed. opening crates after every WZ is a pita too, just to pull out vendor trash.

 

Things were fine when we had PvP gear...at least, it felt fine to me. Why was that changed? Was it because the entry point for people new to PvP was not favorable? Or because Bolster did not work properly? Or was it simpler to just balance gear without having Expertise to worry about?

 

If the change had anything to do with new PvPers, that falls flat given the abysmal changes (deserter debuff, wins only) and the failure of bioware to so much as comment on this topic other than: "we're monitoring the situation." The Watchers monitor everything and almost never intervene...:cool:

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Things were fine when we had PvP gear...at least, it felt fine to me. Why was that changed? Was it because the entry point for people new to PvP was not favorable? Or because Bolster did not work properly? Or was it simpler to just balance gear without having Expertise to worry about?

 

If the change had anything to do with new PvPers, that falls flat given the abysmal changes (deserter debuff, wins only) and the failure of bioware to so much as comment on this topic other than: "we're monitoring the situation." The Watchers monitor everything and almost never intervene...:cool:

 

I could be wrong but i think it largely had to do with PVE vs PVP......People didnt like grinding 2 sets of gear and many players were joining warzones in pve gear and getting wreckt. I do remember lots of complaints from both sides centered around this. My memory is fuzzy though and it could have been entirely something different.

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I could be wrong but i think it largely had to do with PVE vs PVP......People didnt like grinding 2 sets of gear and many players were joining warzones in pve gear and getting wreckt. I do remember lots of complaints from both sides centered around this. My memory is fuzzy though and it could have been entirely something different.

 

That’s my recollection of it as well. Lots of pve players were against having 2 sets to grind. Which is funny when you consider many of them now have multiple sets under the current system and it’s totally RNG to get BiS pvp sets that are only available in pve :rolleyes:

 

It was faster to gear up for pvp back then and we had no RNG for pvp, especially if you did lowbie and mid pvp as you lvl’d. You could basically have a full reg set when you hit max lvl and then another month to get a full ranked set. It actually took much longer to get the pve gear.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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well...it's taking forever and a *********** day to gather enough tech frags to buy set pieces, which are just empty shells. I mean...shouldn't the set pieces be cheap and the mods/etc. expensive? they set this **** up back arsewards.
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well...it's taking forever and a *********** day to gather enough tech frags to buy set pieces, which are just empty shells. I mean...shouldn't the set pieces be cheap and the mods/etc. expensive? they set this **** up back arsewards.

 

If they did away with the RNG and allowed direct purchases at the vendors it would not be so bad. They could have even increased the individual prices on mods etc.

 

Fox, unfortunately the fastest way to gear up isn’t in pvp. Most of us spammed flashpoints to get to 306 and to collect techfrags. That’s why this gear system is backwards for pvp. It doesn’t encourage you to pvp to gear up. It actually disincentivises you to play pvp.

 

If you’re looking for the most economical way (time wise) to get tech frags, consider spamming short content like uprisings and making sure you get as many lvl 75 alts through conquest each week. I get 10,000 a week from conquest completion (medium planet invasion gives 400 tech frags, so about 22-23 Alts). Plus many activities like uprisings help get conquest done on those fast on those.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Requiring different gear for PvP = Lower PvP population and/or improperly geared PvP players

 

Ill-advised in my opinion.

 

i honestly don't gaf about pvp gear or not. the whole point of pvp gear in the first place is because of pve, NOT pvp.

 

you see, the reason you need separate pvp gear is so that pve players can't cheat the pve gear gate by going through pvp.

 

from a pvp perspective, it's better that everyone gets bolstered to the same level. but then you cannot customize your build and whatnot. so then ok. you make the gear easy to get but then you customize it. but if it's easy to get, it has to be different from pve gear or else pve will chese the system by using pvp gear.

 

so the idea that getting rid of pvp gear is something done for pve ppl is, while true, incredibly ironic.

 

anyway bolster's a thing, and I'm running around in unaugmented 270s, but I'm still doing some dmg. but it's really and truly retarded. I don't mind running some dailies but the **** fps and w/e the hell else trix said there. sorry. no. I'm here for WZs and arenas.

Edited by foxmob
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i honestly don't gaf about pvp gear or not. the whole point of pvp gear in the first place is because of pve, NOT pvp.

 

you see, the reason you need separate pvp gear is so that pve players can't cheat the pve gear gate by going through pvp.

 

You explained it well.

 

from a pvp perspective, it's better that everyone gets bolstered to the same level. but then you cannot customize your build and whatnot. so then ok. you make the gear easy to get but then you customize it. but if it's easy to get, it has to be different from pve gear or else pve will chese the system by using pvp gear.

 

Which is why, though I did not articulate it well, I miss PvP gear. Acquiring it was MUCH simpler, it was faster, and you're right, it was a lot easier to modify. This convoluted system we have now is insanely tedious and costly.

 

so the idea that getting rid of pvp gear is something done for pve ppl is, while true, incredibly ironic.

 

anyway bolster's a thing, and I'm running around in unaugmented 270s, but I'm still doing some dmg. but it's really and truly retarded. I don't mind running some dailies but the **** fps and w/e the hell else trix said there. sorry. no. I'm here for WZs and arenas.

 

I love arenas. I'd prefer them to warzones most of the time. I cannot wait for ranked to start...not because I am competent, though I hope to be, but because I want something else to do besides Voidstar, voidstar, voidstar, AH, suckball, voidstar, voidstar, suckball, ah, voidstar, voidstar, suckball, (oh look! Novare Coast!), voidstar, voidstar...

 

Then there are all of the other complaints that, though you may not agree, I and others would like to see addressed: matchmaking, premades (which is a matchmaking problem), class stacking (matchmaking problem), class balance (...sigh...), deserter debuff, wins only count, backfilling, deserter debuff, deserter debuff...

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I don't mind running some dailies but the **** fps and w/e the hell else trix said there. sorry. no. I'm here for WZs and arenas.

 

I totally agree that you should not have to do as I suggested. I get it, I also hated spamming flash points to gear up. I was just trying help point you to the fastest way.

 

You might find this helpful if you are still at 270 gear.

 

If you have a treasure Hunter, send them off to get the grade 10 and grade 11 lock boxes. They should start dropping 272-282 gear (maybe some higher occasionally). Send the stuff to your character you are trying to gear up. When you open boxes or accept rewards, just put on the highest gear rated stuff you have (even if it’s rubbish). This will increase your overall gear rating and higher stuff will drop.

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Yet, when they got rid of the pvp gear the pvp population actually collapsed. Proving your theory was incorrect for this game.

 

Correlation is not causation. Removing PvP gear didn't necessarily cause the PvP population to drop, unless you have hard data that says otherwise.

 

My argument is not based on data either, but on logic. If you require Expertise gear to be ground out to enter and do well in PvP, it is natural that more primary-PvE players will skip that grind and PvP.

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does anyone like this system where you receive a box of 2-4 junk items every win? I must be missing something. what is the point to these garbage boxes?

 

I don't mean the WZ stim boxes. I mean the "winner's box." it's junk. like...total junk. it's as if it exists just for you to have to clean out your inventory of junk.

 

it's like they created something dumber than the command crates: a box of less useful junk that you cannot even preview and disintegrate. and yeah, they're legacy, but who the hell wants to pass 270s/280s to an alt?

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does anyone like this system where you receive a box of 2-4 junk items every win? I must be missing something. what is the point to these garbage boxes?

 

I don't mean the WZ stim boxes. I mean the "winner's box." it's junk. like...total junk. it's as if it exists just for you to have to clean out your inventory of junk.

 

it's like they created something dumber than the command crates: a box of less useful junk that you cannot even preview and disintegrate. and yeah, they're legacy, but who the hell wants to pass 270s/280s to an alt?

 

you're right, it is junk. Completing the weekly or daily pvp quest is pretty useless because the rewards usually only amount to a few tech frags and it makes gearing up in pvp a never ending pain.

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