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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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Hey there everyone,

 

We realize SGRAs are an important topic and the discussion can get a little heated, but we'd like to remind everyone to please stay civil to your fellow forum members and remain on-topic for the thread subject. A few of the latest posts were edging towards off-topic and/or rude.

 

As a gentle reminder to everyone, please remember the following:

 

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Thank you for keeping this thread respectful and constructive for all involved!

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Um, the vast majority of us are perfectly content (or well, willing at least) to wait for this since we know it will be this year.

 

They're this year? This is confirmed? I am the happiest camper right now. SO FREAKING HAPPY :D

 

If they're retconning existing companions to be bi- or pansexual, I put my vote down for Andronikus. Both my Inquisitors might be female, so I won't get anything from it, but I think ol' Nikky can be coaxed out of his shell. And Vette. I'd love to be able to romance Vette on my Juggy.

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People need to understand that bioware would still need to get lucas arts permission to put same sex gender relationships in the game. That's where you should complain( for those who have a complaint in regards to this issue.

 

Dear lord read the first page, LucasArts SUPPORTS Same-sex romances and even has them in it's official canon structure.

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regardless... lucas arts supporting same sex relationships and fully authorizing them for their licensed products is totally different. Sorry that's how legally binding contracts work. Lucas Arts can say whatever they want while they take their time and putz around until nothing gets done. And no to date no lucas arts (at least star wars related) has had same sex relationships. Their was one in the first kotor, however Bioware pulled at the last moment just like the ME same sex relationship from the first game. Bioware is not a champion of equal rights for same sex couples. they are a company that ( at lest with this issue) is seeking to take advantage of a delicate situation. If they were the female relationship with Juhani from kotor would have been left in and shepard and kaiden would have been left in that game as well ( i mean ME not ME3)
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While I don't object to Corso Riggs (or anyone else, for that matter) becoming bisexual, his romance would need a crapton of rewriting for it to work, as currently it is really, really, REALLY bound up in gender roles. Opinions of if this is acceptable or not aside, he calls you a lady constantly, which um. Probably wouldn't work so well if he's addressing a man. ;)

 

Doc's another one that I think refers to your gender a lot. I would love for him to be bi (he's my favorite romance) but he'd need a pretty substantial rewrite too, I think.

 

"Rewrite" is probably not quite the right word, as I mostly just mean "needs to have a male/male romance written" rather than "the female romance needs a rewrite to be gender neutral."

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But... they're confirmed? Doesn't that mean Lucasart does not take issue with this? Haven't their already been same-sex relationships is the Star Wars universe?

Welcome to the thread. Always good to see new faces here, unless they're here to make trouble. Then they get reported.

 

There are same-sex relationships in Star Wars canon, yes:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Goran_Beviin

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Medrit_Vasur

And SGRs are confirmed for this year, yes. Daniel Erickson spoke at the guild summit in March, and stated that SGRs will be in with the game's story update, which is coming this year. I linked a video to that part of the guild summit in a post I made on the first page, take a look there. :)

 

Despite what others may say, I think it's safe to say that if there was any problem with SGRs being in the game, BioWare would not have told us that they were coming. MMO development is often fluid and lots of things change, but I don't think any company that wants to keep its customers is stupid enough to outright lie and say a feature was coming when they knew it wasn't. Some people may use the same-sex relationship with Juhani being removed from SW:KotOR to claim LucasArts won't support SGRs; to them, I say that game came out ten years ago and things have clearly changed.

 

While I don't object to Corso Riggs (or anyone else, for that matter) becoming bisexual, his romance would need a crapton of rewriting for it to work, as currently it is really, really, REALLY bound up in gender roles. Opinions of if this is acceptable or not aside, he calls you a lady constantly, which um. Probably wouldn't work so well if he's addressing a man. ;)

 

Doc's another one that I think refers to your gender a lot. I would love for him to be bi (he's my favorite romance) but he'd need a pretty substantial rewrite too, I think.

 

"Rewrite" is probably not quite the right word, as I mostly just mean "needs to have a male/male romance written" rather than "the female romance needs a rewrite to be gender neutral."

Daniel Erickson said at the guild summit that SGRs were going to be completely new romances, not just the current romances with the genders switched. He said that doing such a thing would be bad writing, among other things. I posted the video from the guild summit that has SGR discussion in it on the first page of this thread, take a look. :)

Edited by MusedMoose
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regardless... lucas arts supporting same sex relationships and fully authorizing them for their licensed products is totally different. Sorry that's how legally binding contracts work. Lucas Arts can say whatever they want while they take their time and putz around until nothing gets done. And no to date no lucas arts (at least star wars related) has had same sex relationships. Their was one in the first kotor, however Bioware pulled at the last moment just like the ME same sex relationship from the first game. Bioware is not a champion of equal rights for same sex couples. they are a company that ( at lest with this issue) is seeking to take advantage of a delicate situation. If they were the female relationship with Juhani from kotor would have been left in and shepard and kaiden would have been left in that game as well ( i mean ME not ME3)

 

Juhani and Female Revan is still a very viable lesbian romance option, not available to Male Revan, just because it's not outright blatant fade to blacks, etc... that doesn't mean much of anything and to add even more on top, Visas Marr is an option for Female Exiles as well, as long as you gain no influence with Mical, he takes over her no matter what if he has even just some influence, it's easily missed and is almost an easter egg, but it is in there.

 

Same Sex relationships have been in so many BioWare games that the simple facts far outweigh anything you say.

 

Juhani, Sky, Silk Fox, Zevran, Liara, Kaiden, Samara, Morinth, Anders, Kelly, Isabella, Merrill, Leliana, Jack(a blatant bisexual.), and so many homosexual one-night stands I can't remember.

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Juhani, Sky, Silk Fox, Zevran, Liara, Kaiden, Samara, Morinth, Anders, Kelly, Isabella, Merrill, Leliana, Jack(a blatant bisexual.), and so many homosexual one-night stands I can't remember.

 

ME's Kaidan? O.O

For some reason I missed that one then, of course in most of my playthroughs he never survived ME1... =/

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ME's Kaidan? O.O

For some reason I missed that one then, of course in most of my playthroughs he never survived ME1... =/

 

In the European PC version of ME1, both Kaiden and Ashley were SGR capable. For some reason here in the US, ONLY Liara was kept as an SGR. At least, that's what was said on the youtube videos I watched. I would link them, but I would probably get warned or infracted for it. :/

 

DISCLAIMER: It MIGHT have been a hack, since I haven't been able to get my hands on the EU ME, yet.

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In the European PC version of ME1, both Kaiden and Ashley were SGR capable. For some reason here in the US, ONLY Liara was kept as an SGR. At least, that's what was said on the youtube videos I watched. I would link them, but I would probably get warned or infracted for it. :/

 

DISCLAIMER: It MIGHT have been a hack, since I haven't been able to get my hands on the EU ME, yet.

 

Hmm, I have the EU ME... granted I didn't try, but it's the first I've heard of it - though it could've been assumption on my part, BW often has this way of way of balancing out the love interests (Leliana and Zev : Bi, Morrigan & Alistair: straight), so I figured Kaidan & Ash were the straight ones and Liara the bi one.

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In the European PC version of ME1, both Kaiden and Ashley were SGR capable. For some reason here in the US, ONLY Liara was kept as an SGR. At least, that's what was said on the youtube videos I watched. I would link them, but I would probably get warned or infracted for it. :/

 

DISCLAIMER: It MIGHT have been a hack, since I haven't been able to get my hands on the EU ME, yet.

It's possible it was a hack, since people have been using mods on BioWare games to get SGRs since Baldur's Gate II. ...guilty. :D That's the sort of thing that makes me glad BW isn't just rewriting the romance dialogue and switching genders. It was really odd to have my BG2 character romance Viconia and have her relationship dialogues clearly be meant for a male main character.

 

Here's a tangent to consider: in today's Q&A thread, they say you'll need a high-level character on one side and a mid-level character on the other side to get the HK-51 companion. Makes me glad my female SI is 25, so I can get her to Taris and stop, and still be considered "mid-level". I don't care how cool HK-51 is, my warped little Sith Sorcerer is not missing out on starting a relationship with Ashara for him.

 

...though if both the HK-51 companion and SGRs hit in the same patch, my head might explode from the sheer awesome. I'm okay with this.

BW often has this way of way of balancing out the love interests (Leliana and Zev : Bi, Morrigan & Alistair: straight), so I figured Kaidan & Ash were the straight ones and Liara the bi one.

That's true, they do; I hadn't thought of that. I'm still hoping that pattern holds with SGRs in TOR, so that every class gets at least one for each gender. Though to keep things really balanced, three classes should have more than one male to romance, since currently three classes have more than one female to romance. Regardless of gender preference, it doesn't seem quite right that classes with two female companions have the chance to romance either of them, while all the classes have more than one male companion and only get one to romance.

 

But hey, SGRs will mean more romance opportunities for everyone, and that's always a good thing.

Edited by MusedMoose
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But hey, SGRs will mean more romance opportunities for everyone, and that's always a good thing.

 

Indeed! :D

And yeah, it always struck me as a bit odd that Sith Warriors, Agents and... (what's the third one, smugglers? O.o) had that imbalance where they actually had a choice of partners.

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Indeed! :D

And yeah, it always struck me as a bit odd that Sith Warriors, Agents and... (what's the third one, smugglers? O.o) had that imbalance where they actually had a choice of partners.

 

I count SWs as having 1 1/2 choices, actually. If you run your SW LS, then Vette is the logical choice. If you run your SW as DS, then DS Jaesa (psychohosebeast that she is) is the logical choice. Romancing BOTH at the same time could be bad for your health. :D

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I count SWs as having 1 1/2 choices, actually. If you run your SW LS, then Vette is the logical choice. If you run your SW as DS, then DS Jaesa (psychohosebeast that she is) is the logical choice. Romancing BOTH at the same time could be bad for your health. :D

 

Hah, and here I was just thinking that I hope they'll add the LS Jaesa romance when they add all the new romance stuff =P

 

Seeing how she volunteers to bare your children, and judging by her comments here and there it's not like she doesn't want to be with you! Just gotta get that Jedi brainwashing out of her! x.x

 

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Pre-release, I was concerned about this, but now I've seen most of the companions that I am likely to see. Unless they introduce a new class, I am unlikely to level another one. Though I do have this wonky idea of leveling a character via PVP alone after the 1.3 legacy pvp xp comes in, but that is beside the point since companions are not used in PVP. I typically only raid and pvp, so I rarely even have my companions out anymore unless I am gathering resources. They can do what they want with companions.

 

Bottom line, I can live with it. New companions would be nice anyway. I'll just try my best to avoid the sexual story line. If it is as easy to avoid as it is with most companions, it won't be an issue. Though overt unprompted flirting could get annoying.

 

And likely to still be kicking around after SGRA are in, in one form or another. :D

 

I would hope that it would go away after they are in. Of course, putting them in will probably just cause the people going on about this to want something more.

Edited by timidobserver
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Juhani and Female Revan is still a very viable lesbian romance option, not available to Male Revan, just because it's not outright blatant fade to blacks, etc... that doesn't mean much of anything and to add even more on top, Visas Marr is an option for Female Exiles as well, as long as you gain no influence with Mical, he takes over her no matter what if he has even just some influence, it's easily missed and is almost an easter egg, but it is in there.

 

Can't comment on KotOR2, but yes, Juhani's romance with female Revan did actually make the final cut... It was bugged, and very fragile (easily broken), but it was there.

 

Juhani, Sky, Silk Fox, Zevran, Liara, Kaiden, Samara, Morinth, Anders, Kelly, Isabella, Merrill, Leliana, Jack(a blatant bisexual.), and so many homosexual one-night stands I can't remember.

 

Here we go again. We don't know what Jack's orientation is. She was once in a relationship with a couple (male/female couple). It ended in mutual betrayal. She is not available for female!Shepards to romance in either of her appearances in the Mass Effect series. Please don't say she's bisexual as if it is fact, because it is not.

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In the European PC version of ME1, both Kaiden and Ashley were SGR capable. For some reason here in the US, ONLY Liara was kept as an SGR. At least, that's what was said on the youtube videos I watched. I would link them, but I would probably get warned or infracted for it. :/

 

DISCLAIMER: It MIGHT have been a hack, since I haven't been able to get my hands on the EU ME, yet.

 

It was a hack, basically making Kaidan (and Ashley in ME1) available as SGR option through changing your Shepard's gender. That was only possible of course because Ash and Kaidan were supposed to be SGR options from the start but were edited out at the last moment. Only thing was, Kaidan did refer to you as a female from time to time, and the last romance scene had Shepard change to femShep for the most crucial part. There was a nice kissing scene left though. You could carry over both romances to ME2, triggering short cut scenes for both options, yet only Kaidan remained available as an official SGR option in ME3. The hack was working for EU and US versions respectively. I played through ME1-ME3 with Kaidan as SGR option throughout.

Edited by Lent_San
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You are misinformed. Bioware's writers (including Patrick Weekes and Chris L'Etoile) have stated that Kaidan and Ashley were never "meant" to be bisexual, they merely considered it (and then decided against it because they believed the lines didn't match the character, as well as some cutscene/etc issues).

 

The voice lines you hear from the "hack" are simply male Shepard saying female Shepard's lines and vice versa. Before Bioware's current VA recording system, they did things more manually and thought it better to give both voice actors all lines instead of painstakingly singling out gender specific ones.

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Greetings everyone!

 

We are just posting a gentle reminder to please keep this on topic to Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ versus other games, although we do understand the use of them in analogies. Additionally, please remember the topic of the thread is in regards to how Same Gender Romance Arcs will be implemented into the game versus discussion of if it should be or not.

 

Official statement follows:

Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in
Star Wars:
The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options.

 

Thank you and enjoy your discussion!

Edited by Ellvaan
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Here we go again. We don't know what Jack's orientation is. She was once in a relationship with a couple (male/female couple). It ended in mutual betrayal. She is not available for female!Shepards to romance in either of her appearances in the Mass Effect series. Please don't say she's bisexual as if it is fact, because it is not.

 

She had a blatant attraction to a female in her 'school' if you bother to look hard enough in ME3.

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She had a blatant attraction to a female in her 'school' if you bother to look hard enough in ME3.

 

Hmm... I don't remember that, and I do have a fine tuned sense of subtext. Guess I'm going to have to load up ME3 again and see what I missed. :)

 

The point remains, though. She is not a bisexual LI. On your list, she is the only one who could not be romanced by the same gender PC in the game in which she appears.

Edited by Zandilar
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Hmm... I don't remember that, and I do have a fine tuned sense of subtext. Guess I'm going to have to load up ME3 again and see what I missed. :)

 

The point remains, though. She is not a bisexual LI. On your list, she is the only one who could not be romanced by the same gender PC in the game in which she appears.

 

She only says it when you play Male Shepard and do the renegade romance with her, it is kind of her saying 'You're an ***, I hate you, now I have a GF, ****!"or if you side with Miranda in ME2.

 

True enough I wasn't exactly counting the actual SGRAs in the games, more of the Bi/Les/Gay characters I could remember.

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Greetings everyone!

 

We are just posting a gentle reminder to please keep this on topic to Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ versus other games, although we do understand the use of them in analogies. Additionally, please remember the topic of the thread is in regards to how Same Gender Romance Arcs will be implemented into the game versus discussion of if it should be or not.

 

Thank you and enjoy your discussion!

 

So is this a warning not to discuss when and whether or not Same Gender Romance Arcs will be implemented?

Edited by PTElder
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