Are you insane? You're joking...this game is already screwed up enough with greedy scum players selling hypercrates for 2 billion credits when they were only 500 million credits in the summer of last year. I like having the cap at 1 Billion because these scum players can't sell their items on the GTN for their overpriced listing which is based on NOTHING. This GTN is not based in real fundamental economics because I have literally seen items go from being 50M to 400M in the matter of 48 hours. That does not happen in economics. What is going on is players setting some ******** price ceiling based on no value. Nothing is lost by Bioware for keeping the cap because people will buy from the Cartel market and it will force these people with 10 hypercrates to either sell for 1 billion or less. Or try to find the very few players who have 2 billion credits to buy from you (which there are not many and they are in the same boat). I love seeing these players with their tens of billions of useless credits which they got from old credit glitches or referral link schemes now sitting on a bunch of items they can't sell. Let them burn.

Bioware if you see this thread. DO NOT INCREASE THE GTN CAP.

Is like a bunch of protestors in front of a Ferrari dealership screaming "No car is worth more than $10k!"...

While behind them, in the dealership... a customer is signing paperwork on a $200k purchase.

...greedy scum players...

I'm not sure why you expect me to sell you something so much cheaper than others are willing to pay for it. At least aim your rage at the correct target: BW controls supply, so BW controls price.

My 2 cents.

-Increase the cap. Its ridiculous they are using int values on database at 2022.

-increase all costs.. Strongholds, Flagships, recalculator, etc.

-Compensate new players with more money on first Story run-through

I would suggest the cap should be raised to 1T, with similar increases to credit limits in other places.

Then everything will be priced 1 trillion credits and then what is the point of the GTN at that point? Raise it again to 2 trillion next year when the current runaway inflation makes 1 trillion trivial?

Then everything will be priced 1 trillion credits and then what is the point of the GTN at that point? Raise it again to 2 trillion next year when the current runaway inflation makes 1 trillion trivial?

Even though that's a ridiculous take on what would happen (1 Billion has been the cap since launch and only in the last year have we seen anything sell for 1B) , the cap still has absolutely nothing to do with inflation. If players had trillions of credits to spend, then the factors that actually cause inflation haven't been addressed. If players have trillions of credits, who cares about the cost of vanity items that other players are selling?

As I pointed out before, subs get CC, by subbing, by having a security key, from some game achievements, and from participating in Galactic Seasons. Galactic Seasons even has a way to "catch up" using credits if you fall behind. Players can then take all these CCs and buy vanity items that they think they just have to have. Meanwhile, inflation is only affecting player to player sales. It's really not the "problem" people are making it out to be. It just presents running change and players need to adapt with it.

Even though that's a ridiculous take on what would happen (1 Billion has been the cap since launch and only in the last year have we seen anything sell for 1B) , the cap still has absolutely nothing to do with inflation. If players had trillions of credits to spend, then the factors that actually cause inflation haven't been addressed. If players have trillions of credits, who cares about the cost of vanity items that other players are selling?

 

As I pointed out before, subs get CC, by subbing, by having a security key, from some game achievements, and from participating in Galactic Seasons. Galactic Seasons even has a way to "catch up" using credits if you fall behind. Players can then take all these CCs and buy vanity items that they think they just have to have. Meanwhile, inflation is only affecting player to player sales. It's really not the "problem" people are making it out to be. It just presents running change and players need to adapt with it.

fun fact, with 104 billion as a legacy cap, 4.29 billion as a character cap and 4.29 billion as a guild bank cap, the max credits a single account can have per server storing credits on characters and banks is about 962 billion.

That is only if a player unlocks the maximum 100 characters per server, makes 100 characters per server, and each character has their own guild and guild bank.

just a fun fact when someone tosses around the idea that everything will cost a trillion credits if we raise the GTN limit.

This conversation reminds me of the discussions the US Congress had when discussing the debt decades ago. Back then said debt was in the billions. Now look where we are.

**********************

As (I think) Devereaux and others have said, inflation is a symptom, not the disease. The issue remains the lack of (viable) items on which to spend creds. This is partially because of the (antiquated) notion of "digital rarity".

For example, Tulak Horde's LS (currently selling for over 1 billion on Star Forge) is, apparently, a rare drop from Cartel Packs / Crates / Hypercrates. But it doesn't have to be. Technically speaking, EA could put one in every player's inventory tonight. Or it could be a "Thank you" and show up in every new player's mailbox, like the Vehicles, Armor, and Flair you get when you create a toon.

Would the price crater? Absolutely. But why? Players still have billions of credits, so that didn't change. Players still make money via the usual activities, so why the price drop? Well, obviously because it's no longer "rare".

More importantly, because THLS is no longer "rare", players will not spend real-life money to take a chance on obtaining it via a hypercrate. (Digital gambling if you will, and oh by the way, the EU came down hard on EA (iinm) when they pulled that stunt with the FIFA World Cup game). This is why everything you can find in a hypercrate can ALSO be found on the CM.

But what cannot be found on the CM are old crates and items. Here is where the Devs not only missed the boat but didn't even get to the dock. Since EA owns the digital rights to those {WIDGETS}, they could, theoretically, put them on a vendor, and sell them ad infinitum (Again, "digital rarity only in reverse). Put the Czerka CZ-4 Blaster pistol on a vendor, make the price one million credits (and BoL), and the people who want to buy the thing can and will.

There. Now the CM is unaffected (the proverbial elephant in the room), credits are drained from the economy, new players have something to work towards, and older players can fill in the gaps on their "Space Barbie / Ken"

fun fact, with 104 billion as a legacy cap, 4.29 billion as a character cap and 4.29 billion as a guild bank cap, the max credits a single account can have per server storing credits on characters and banks is about 962 billion.

 

That is only if a player unlocks the maximum 100 characters per server, makes 100 characters per server, and each character has their own guild and guild bank.

 

just a fun fact when someone tosses around the idea that everything will cost a trillion credits if we raise the GTN limit.

No one is suggesting everything will cost a trillion credits. I think you may be exaggerating just a tad don’t you

No one is suggesting everything will cost a trillion credits. I think you may be exaggerating just a tad don’t you

Last summer, when Hypercrates were selling for significantly less, did you think they'd be going for what they are now?

Back when I played, years ago, a Revan's Belt (OG) was a million creds, his mask around the same. The mask alone goes for 1 billion on starforge. Granted with some Carter Certificates you can pick one up in the bazaar, but my point remains.

Why not? If it's rare and people have a lot of credits to spare, of course some things will sell for a lot.

 

I have 12b currently - that's after spending probably as much on armor, weapons and mounts on the GTN. I've only been playing since June 2020. For the last two months or so I've only played about 8 hours a week too. Imagine how many credits some people who have been playing longer must have...

You're so full of it. You probably bought the same exact hypercrates we are talking about and sold them for hundreds of millions to get that 12 billion. There is absolutely zero way you played since June 2020 and made 12 Billion credits by just playing the game. If you're going to lie, at least make it believable.

Last summer, when Hypercrates were selling for significantly less, did you think they'd be going for what they are now?

 

Back when I played, years ago, a Revan's Belt (OG) was a million creds, his mask around the same. The mask alone goes for 1 billion on starforge. Granted with some Carter Certificates you can pick one up in the bazaar, but my point remains.

You just stated exactly why the Cap should not increase. I too remember when simple Cartel items like Revan's armor was a few million. Now it's easily 1 billion for Revan Reborn. The GTN is broken my friend and these blokes want to make it 50 times worse.

You're so full of it. You probably bought the same exact hypercrates we are talking about and sold them for hundreds of millions to get that 12 billion. There is absolutely zero way you played since June 2020 and made 12 Billion credits by just playing the game. If you're going to lie, at least make it believable.

Actually, as a crafter, selling items anyone can make, I've probably made over 3 billion since September 2021. (Granted I spent a lot on {WIDGETS} and Flagship Plans), but still.

No one is suggesting everything will cost a trillion credits. I think you may be exaggerating just a tad don’t you

@TrixxieTriss:

Maybe you missed this post? :

Then everything will be priced 1 trillion credits and then what is the point of the GTN at that point? Raise it again to 2 trillion next year when the current runaway inflation makes 1 trillion trivial?

@xordevoreaux:

While you are correct that inflation should also be addressed, your logic here is flawed and easily demonstrated as such...

The current cap is 1b - everything doesn't cost 1b. The cap price definitely has an effect on some item values, but it's not the effect you are claiming.

late edit: made sure it was clear addressing 2 different people above.

Maybe you missed this post? :

 

While you are correct that inflation should also be addressed, your logic here is flawed and easily demonstrated as such...

 

The current cap is 1b - everything doesn't cost 1b. The cap price definitely has an effect on some item values, but it's not the effect you are claiming.

How so? If I want to sell a {WIDGET} for more than the GTN will allow, I simply go to trade chat. GTN sets an (arbitrary) ceiling. If the ceiling were lower, then trade chat would be spammier (that's a certainty)

How so? If I want to sell a {WIDGET} for more than the GTN will allow, I simply go to trade chat. GTN sets an (arbitrary) ceiling. If the ceiling were lower, then trade chat would be spammier (that's a certainty)

You are correct - if the GTN cap were lower, trade channel on fleet would definitely be spammier. And even more would be traded without application of a GTN tax.

However, I must apologize... I'm not sure how much I want to reveal here in answering your question. I will reiterate key concepts: price discovery and competition. I may reveal more specifics here at some point, but I think it's probably not in my best interest to do so now.

@TrixxieTriss:

Maybe you missed this post?

Ok, I’ll admit I did miss it. And it’s just as exaggerated as the other post.

How so? If I want to sell a {WIDGET} for more than the GTN will allow, I simply go to trade chat. GTN sets an (arbitrary) ceiling. If the ceiling were lower, then trade chat would be spammier (that's a certainty)

Not if BioWare put in some lower limits. That would actually discourage people from using player to player trades outside of the GTN.

We need to consider this problem as it is, rather than how we think it should be. Or a progressive way of thinking -dealing with problems in the now move us towards the reality we want.

As things are, people have items that they feel are worth more than 1B creds (and other people are willing to pay this price). As things are, people are selling these items directly player to player and bypassing the GTN (and the 8% GTN commision). Raising the cap on the GTN will bring some of those items back to the GTN and subject them to the commision. This is one credit sink we can easily bring back to the game.

As for prices continuing to rise, I can tell you as a seller, prices rise and fall in a cycle. When there are a lot of items on the GTN, sellers compete with each other and the price drops. When there are only a few of them, prices are higher. Simple free market adjustment; supply and demand. Many times I have bought something that I thought had hit the lowest price point it was going to, only to see it drop way lower. I've also caught pieces set at that low price point, waited until supply was low and resold for a high profit. Raising the GTN cap won't cause items to increase in cost, it will just allow for more expensive pieces to be placed on the GTN.

Not if BioWare put in some lower limits. That would actually discourage people from using player to player trades outside of the GTN.

Why are you so stuck on using credit caps to attempt to control price?...

We can see in the game now that this does not work to reduce prices (many items going for more than GTN cap, and some even more than the personal inventory credit cap). We can also see what does work to reduce item price in the game right now: increased supply of the item. It's why most bronze sabers are worth a small fraction of the GTN cap (high supply).

CM items that are relatively expensive right now are intentionally so. It's tied to desire to maximize CM revenue for Bioware.

Price controls do not work. All the credit cap does is keep items off the automated market and lead to more spamming trade channel posts.

What is needed are desirable credit sinks with scaling costs based on how frequently they are used server wide. These kinds of effects will ramp up in cost at an exponential rate (which yes, will price out the poor) while the benefits should increase linearly, with the end goal of the mega rich paying high amounts for desirable benefits, until enough credits are removed from the game.

What these benefits are isn't clear to me, but could include things like Planetary Conquest titles, NiM OPS decorations (BoP so that they can't be resold), pvp titles and other gated content.

Now, along with the benefit system, the empire and the republic should start implementing a tax on things like bank storage and withdrawing items from your cargo hold, with the cost based on a percentage of your income, and free withdrawal for legacies below a certain amount (~1 mil maybe).

Credit exchanges via the mail should be taxed heavily, same with the trade window, to make the GTN the preferred market option.

Guild donations should be tax free, to incentivize donating to guilds, but guilds should be paying taxes based on their size, conquest points, flagship, etc.

In short, if you want to solve inflation, you need to add positive and negative incentives. Messing with credit caps aren't going to matter.

Couple things to ponder as we discuss this on a Saturday:

1) The SWTOR economy is not a closed one. Not only is there the external injection of non-game funds to buy items, but these items can also then be sold for in-game currency. (I'm not revealing the recipe for ice here I know)

2) NORMALLY, this would result in the transference of credits between players. In that way the system is closed. However,

2a) Do not discount the possibility of people selling {WIDGETS} for RL money OR

2b) People spending money to buy credits to buy {WIDGETS} (*)

But wait you say, doesn't that mean credits are still being transferred between players? Yes - BUT. The credit generation is through the roof. In WoW there were people using scripts running (the same) dungeons over and over and over and... well you get the idea. (You could tell because they were level 110 (Now 60 I suppose), wearing level 20 gear.)

(I'm discounting the existence of dupers and hackers. While I'm sure such a thing COULD occur, I would hope EA takes the proper measures (Unlike New World) and nukes the offenders IP)

Somebody else said it better than me, "Cash shops are a disease that infect every aspect of the game, and game design" (Or words to that effect). I could not agree more.

(*) I could even tell you the website, Lord knows they spam that crap often enough on fleet. Which points to EA's inability to police their own chat and game.

No one is suggesting everything will cost a trillion credits. I think you may be exaggerating just a tad don’t you

umm

Then everything will be priced 1 trillion credits and then what is the point of the GTN at that point? Raise it again to 2 trillion next year when the current runaway inflation makes 1 trillion trivial?

Not if BioWare put in some lower limits. That would actually discourage people from using player to player trades outside of the GTN.

what...

so lowering the GTN limit would discourage people from using trades more often?

Last summer, when Hypercrates were selling for significantly less, did you think they'd be going for what they are now?

 

Back when I played, years ago, a Revan's Belt (OG) was a million creds, his mask around the same. The mask alone goes for 1 billion on starforge. Granted with some Carter Certificates you can pick one up in the bazaar, but my point remains.

But you literally can’t even own a trillion credits in swtor because of credit caps. And unless BioWare stupidly increase those across the board (including the GTN), then nothing will ever cost a trillion credits. That was my point. Exaggerating to make yours doesn’t help the discussion.

what...

 

so lowering the GTN limit would discourage people from using trades more often?

LoL, good try. Not